Is The Tea Party All About Race?

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Ahso!
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Is The Tea Party All About Race?

Post by Ahso! »

Bob Cesca makes a compelling case it is. Race is a tricky subject though because many people with racist views point to the fact that they have or have had at least friendly casual relationships with people outside their own race. They make the case that if they are going to be labeled as 'racist' without specifics applied, the label doesn't fit. One can see the logic to the argument put forward, but it also reveals the fallacy of it too. One can of course contain racist views toward only one race of people. White people with racist constructs who put forward the argument I've just mentioned are quick to point to 'reverse discrimination' under those exact parameters they deny.

Anyway, Cesca's piece in the Huffington Post (I know the Huffington Post is not like that bastion of credible news, Fox, but go with it for just a short read) offers some insights worth considering.I was going to open this piece with an analogy about the tea party groups and why they're treated seriously by the press and the Republicans. The analogy would go something like: "Imagine [insert left-wing activist group here] getting a serious profile in a mainstream newspaper, and imagine serious Democratic politicians appearing at their convention."

The problem is, when I really evaluated what the various far-left activist groups are all about and compared them with the tea party movement, there really wasn't any equivalency. At all.

Because when you strip away all of the rage, all of the nonsensical loud noises and all of the contradictions, all that's left is race. The tea party is almost entirely about race, and there's no comparative group on the left that's similarly motivated by bigotry, ignorance and racial hatred.

I hasten to note that I'm talking about real racism, insofar as it's impossible for the majority race -- the 70 percent white majority -- to be on the receiving end of racism. That is unless white males, for example, are suddenly an oppressed racial demographic. But judging by the racial composition of, say, the Senate or AM talk radio or the cast members playing the Obamas on SNL, I don't think white people have anything to worry about.

This isn't an epiphany by any stretch. From the beginning, with their witch doctor imagery, watermelon agitprop and Curious George effigies, the wingnut right has been dying to blurt out, as Lee Atwater famously said, "nigger, nigger, nigger!"

But they can't.

Strike that. Correction. TeaParty.org founder Dale Robertson brandished a sign with the (misspelled) word "niggar." So they're not even as restrained as the generally unstrung Atwater anymore.


Full Story; Bob Cesca: The Tea Party Is All About Race
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gmc
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Is The Tea Party All About Race?

Post by gmc »

So are the tea baggers saying they want the bank bailouts stopped and they just be allowed to fail? Would make sense if that was the case. why should people lose theior jobs and homes and the bankers get to keep theirs.

Maybe they should take a leaf out of icelands book.

BBC News - Iceland rejects plan to repay Icesave debts



Also I did a search under teabagger on google and what came up had nothing to do with tax but rather a very strange-not to mention potentially painful-sexual activity. Only in america eh!
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LarsMac
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Is The Tea Party All About Race?

Post by LarsMac »

They don't like the term "teabagger"

I guess now I can see why.

I was going to say no, regarding the racism thing, but then I went to the teaparty.org web site, and can see several reasons why some of my friends would object to the group.

I really don't think we need another party to represent the common folk, so much as we need to start taking responsibility for those we send to the state and Federal legislature.

I won't be a joining a Mr Roberson's group.
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Post by gmc »

I think you are similar to us in that the political system is geared up to suit the party machines and those who control that and everybody has forgotten the point of it all.

http://www.teaparty.org/

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I have to laugh at this-they probably think stalin was a national socialist. though since I don't really understand the way americans look at these things i might be wrong there. But calling Obama a nazi is funny-I'm fairly sure it's unintentional.
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Is The Tea Party All About Race?

Post by LarsMac »

gmc;1295076 wrote: I think you are similar to us in that the political system is geared up to suit the party machines and those who control that and everybody has forgotten the point of it all.

http://www.teaparty.org/



I have to laugh at this-they probably think stalin was a national socialist. though since I don't really understand the way americans look at these things i might be wrong there. But calling Obama a nazi is funny-I'm fairly sure it's unintentional.


I am sure it is, though they intentionally made the reference, they really have no idea.

Sad how quickly the lessons of history fade.
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Is The Tea Party All About Race?

Post by gmc »

LarsMac;1295091 wrote: I am sure it is, though they intentionally made the reference, they really have no idea.

Sad how quickly the lessons of history fade.


With israel featuring so often in the news and so many films films like inglorious bastards (which i've not seen incidentally) around does that not keep it alive or is the holocaust seen as something that happened as a one off and has no relevance today? What about vietnam-that is hardly ancient history

I am sure it is, though they intentionally made the reference, they really have no idea.




Actually that's sad and rather worrying.

Thinking about it though-while the nuttier of your right wing might not understand what a nationalist socialist was and the implication surely all the teabaggers can't be that ignorant?
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Bryn Mawr
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Post by Bryn Mawr »

gmc;1294969 wrote: So are the tea baggers saying they want the bank bailouts stopped and they just be allowed to fail? Would make sense if that was the case. why should people lose theior jobs and homes and the bankers get to keep theirs.

Maybe they should take a leaf out of icelands book.

BBC News - Iceland rejects plan to repay Icesave debts



Also I did a search under teabagger on google and what came up had nothing to do with tax but rather a very strange-not to mention potentially painful-sexual activity. Only in america eh!


It might make sense if that bank bailout had been about keeping bankers in jobs. Given that it was aimed at keeping as many people (not bankers) in a job with a roof over their heads as possible I can see no sense in it at all.
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Is The Tea Party All About Race?

Post by LarsMac »

gmc;1295210 wrote: With israel featuring so often in the news and so many films films like inglorious bastards (which i've not seen incidentally) around does that not keep it alive or is the holocaust seen as something that happened as a one off and has no relevance today? What about vietnam-that is hardly ancient history



Actually that's sad and rather worrying.

Thinking about it though-while the nuttier of your right wing might not understand what a nationalist socialist was and the implication surely all the teabaggers can't be that ignorant?


The real lesson of the holocaust has been lost, I fear.
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Post by gmc »

Bryn Mawr;1295303 wrote: It might make sense if that bank bailout had been about keeping bankers in jobs. Given that it was aimed at keeping as many people (not bankers) in a job with a roof over their heads as possible I can see no sense in it at all.


People who can pay their mortgage aren't losing their homes. the ones who can't are the ones losing their jobs because banks are withdrawing business loans and agreed bank overdrafts at short notice regardless of the consequences for that business and those it employees at the same time they are putting up the on credit cards so that anyone in debt has an even bigger problem. This despite the fact we own the banks and have given them the money to keep trading and supposedly to continue lending. Any other business that is bankrupt does not pay out bonuses to it's staff. The maximum pension Fred the shred should have got was £26,000 pa-he did bankrupt his company so no matter what was in his contract he clearly was in breach and should have been penalised. Banks got themselves in to this mess through sheer stupidity and bad management-leaving aside the question of the regulators for the moment. The people in the banks who are losing their jobs are he ones in the branches who have done nothing wrong and those who are to blame have not suffered at all. The bail out is all very well but those responsible should have been sacked. None of this happened out of the blue there were plenty of warnings.

Good for the Icelanders why should they be blackmailed in to paying a debt they did not incur? It was a private bank not a state owned one.

As to the teabaggers it does seem to be slightly daft and right wing nonsense. But not being an american and by their lights probably a rabid loony left wing nutcase that thinks universal healthcare common sense I can't really comment. I still find the portrayal of obama as a nazi hard to understand.
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Post by Bryn Mawr »

gmc;1295315 wrote: People who can pay their mortgage aren't losing their homes. the ones who can't are the ones losing their jobs because banks are withdrawing business loans and agreed bank overdrafts at short notice regardless of the consequences for that business and those it employees at the same time they are putting up the on credit cards so that anyone in debt has an even bigger problem. This despite the fact we own the banks and have given them the money to keep trading and supposedly to continue lending. Any other business that is bankrupt does not pay out bonuses to it's staff. The maximum pension Fred the shred should have got was £26,000 pa-he did bankrupt his company so no matter what was in his contract he clearly was in breach and should have been penalised. Banks got themselves in to this mess through sheer stupidity and bad management-leaving aside the question of the regulators for the moment. The people in the banks who are losing their jobs are he ones in the branches who have done nothing wrong and those who are to blame have not suffered at all. The bail out is all very well but those responsible should have been sacked. None of this happened out of the blue there were plenty of warnings.

Good for the Icelanders why should they be blackmailed in to paying a debt they did not incur? It was a private bank not a state owned one.

As to the teabaggers it does seem to be slightly daft and right wing nonsense. But not being an american and by their lights probably a rabid loony left wing nutcase that thinks universal healthcare common sense I can't really comment. I still find the portrayal of obama as a nazi hard to understand.


Totally agree about Fred but not the stuff before that.

Imagine the scenario, the crunch came and the banks were allowed to fold - Nat West, Lloyds, RBS, BoS gone from the High Street - Halifax, Cheltenham & Gloucester, Northern Rock and probably Abbey and Bradford and Bingley gone from the Mortgage market.

What happens to the loans arranged through those banks? What happens to the deposits? You think loans are being foreclosed now but the first result of a banking collapse would have been an effective freezing of assets and calling in of all loans - without the bailout the banks would not have had the working capitol to continue to service the accounts and no takeover could have been arranged quickly enough (because none of the other banks had sufficient capital - they were in nearly as bad a position themselves) to prevent it.

The result? A mass of bankruptcies both personal and commercial causing far, far greater human cost than the bailout ever did.
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Post by Ahso! »

Bryn Mawr;1295330 wrote: Totally agree about Fred but not the stuff before that.

Imagine the scenario, the crunch came and the banks were allowed to fold - Nat West, Lloyds, RBS, BoS gone from the High Street - Halifax, Cheltenham & Gloucester, Northern Rock and probably Abbey and Bradford and Bingley gone from the Mortgage market.

What happens to the loans arranged through those banks? What happens to the deposits? You think loans are being foreclosed now but the first result of a banking collapse would have been an effective freezing of assets and calling in of all loans - without the bailout the banks would not have had the working capitol to continue to service the accounts and no takeover could have been arranged quickly enough (because none of the other banks had sufficient capital - they were in nearly as bad a position themselves) to prevent it.

The result? A mass of bankruptcies both personal and commercial causing far, far greater human cost than the bailout ever did.I don't think you could be so sure about that, Bryn. Calling in loans would have taken time and time wasn't on the side of the lending institutions.

None of us of course know what would have taken place in an official capacity. However, the stock market would have probably dissolved and then would have needed to be put back together again.
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Bryn Mawr
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Post by Bryn Mawr »

Ahso!;1295340 wrote: I don't think you could be so sure about that, Bryn. Calling in loans would have taken time and time wasn't on the side of the lending institutions.

None of us of course know what would have taken place in an official capacity. However, the stock market would have probably dissolved and then would have needed to be put back together again.


Nothing's certain but death and taxes but the balance of probability strongly suggests ....
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Post by gmc »

Bryn Mawr;1295330 wrote: Totally agree about Fred but not the stuff before that.

Imagine the scenario, the crunch came and the banks were allowed to fold - Nat West, Lloyds, RBS, BoS gone from the High Street - Halifax, Cheltenham & Gloucester, Northern Rock and probably Abbey and Bradford and Bingley gone from the Mortgage market.

What happens to the loans arranged through those banks? What happens to the deposits? You think loans are being foreclosed now but the first result of a banking collapse would have been an effective freezing of assets and calling in of all loans - without the bailout the banks would not have had the working capitol to continue to service the accounts and no takeover could have been arranged quickly enough (because none of the other banks had sufficient capital - they were in nearly as bad a position themselves) to prevent it.

The result? A mass of bankruptcies both personal and commercial causing far, far greater human cost than the bailout ever did.


Abbey wouldn't have gone because it was already owned by santander-funny how the spanish banks haven't all needed bailing out. You can't call in a loan if all the conditions are being met. Lloyds didn't have to take over HBOS and if they had bothered to check the books properly before doing so they probably wouldn't have. The regulator failed us all miserably but they get away with it as did all the senior bank management who stood back and let it happen. When the RBOS directors threatened to resign darling should have had them in his office the next day with their resignation letters.

Deposits were protected up to £40,000-by us the taxpayer. Northern rock could have been rescued of the chancellor had got his finger out and done something sooner.

None of what happened was unexpected-the warning signs were always there.

quick search as an example

from 2005

YouTube - Colin Campbell predicts credit crunch due to peak oil 2005

2007

Why Ninja mortgages could wreak havoc | Business | The Observer

American Chronicle | Mortgage meltodown & Credit Crisis: Explained in English - Not Banker Talk

It's the south sea bubble all over again-the stock market crash of 1929 you would have to be a complete idiot not to see what was going to happen. OK Idiot is synonymous with politician.
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Post by Bryn Mawr »

gmc;1295520 wrote: Abbey wouldn't have gone because it was already owned by santander-funny how the spanish banks haven't all needed bailing out. You can't call in a loan if all the conditions are being met. Lloyds didn't have to take over HBOS and if they had bothered to check the books properly before doing so they probably wouldn't have. The regulator failed us all miserably but they get away with it as did all the senior bank management who stood back and let it happen. When the RBOS directors threatened to resign darling should have had them in his office the next day with their resignation letters.

Deposits were protected up to £40,000-by us the taxpayer. Northern rock could have been rescued of the chancellor had got his finger out and done something sooner.

None of what happened was unexpected-the warning signs were always there.

quick search as an example

from 2005

YouTube - Colin Campbell predicts credit crunch due to peak oil 2005

2007

Why Ninja mortgages could wreak havoc | Business | The Observer

American Chronicle | Mortgage meltodown & Credit Crisis: Explained in English - Not Banker Talk

It's the south sea bubble all over again-the stock market crash of 1929 you would have to be a complete idiot not to see what was going to happen. OK Idiot is synonymous with politician.


I'll grant you Abbey - my sense of time was never good but once bankruptcy is declared any loanholder becomes a debtor and that debt can be called in - even more certain to be called in if it's an overdraft. Anyway, you were the one claiming that bank loans were being called in at short notice now so how much more so once the bank had gone bankrupt?

I won't quibble and say that the level of the bank deposit protection scheme was £35k rather than £40k but instead point out the pain caused by the collapse of Icesave and Landsbanki which was after the level of protection had been raised to £50k.

The combined effect of that many financial institutions being allowed to fail at one time would make the current troubles look like a tea party.

Oops, sorry, that's a different thread.
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Post by gmc »

Bryn Mawr;1295592 wrote: I'll grant you Abbey - my sense of time was never good but once bankruptcy is declared any loanholder becomes a debtor and that debt can be called in - even more certain to be called in if it's an overdraft. Anyway, you were the one claiming that bank loans were being called in at short notice now so how much more so once the bank had gone bankrupt?

I won't quibble and say that the level of the bank deposit protection scheme was £35k rather than £40k but instead point out the pain caused by the collapse of Icesave and Landsbanki which was after the level of protection had been raised to £50k.

The combined effect of that many financial institutions being allowed to fail at one time would make the current troubles look like a tea party.

Oops, sorry, that's a different thread.


OK I might be wrong about the exact figures and I didn't bother checking.

Bank reserve the right to vary the terms on an overdraft at their discretion and without discussion. A lot of the banks suddenly tightened up on their lending criteria even going back on already agreed commercial overdrafts Many businesses us a working overdraft to run their business-a jeweller buying stock for christmas will run one up and have it paid off as he sells through the stock, I knew one jeweller twenty years in business and the only time he ever used an agreed overdraft facility was at christmas. the first he knew about the overdraft being withdrawn was when cheques started bouncing. That was his line of credit with suppliers -thirty days to pay etc-gone and Cash on delivery only from then on. Twenty years in business and sic staff laid off because the bank just decided they should change what they had been doing for years. A lot of businesses have had the same thing-tell me how does putting your customers out of business help any bank?

A mortgage, so long as you keep up payments and meet the terms of the contract they can't just call it in. However, if you miss two months they can start repossession proceedings and a lot of them started doing so without giving any leeway to borrowers. Most people have less than three months salary in the bank to lose your business or because the banks are punishing responsible borrowers for their (the banks) own stupidity and then have your house taken as well is a bit much.

OK I would agree with the bail out in the circumstances but that not one single member of senior management has been sacked over this is ridiculous. Redundancies are taking place at branch level all over the place.

and at the end of it we will probably hand the banks back to the city institutions that sat and raked it all in during he good times and got saved by the taxpayer. If nationalised banks are making a profit it should go to the taxpayer and if the high fliers don't like it they should **** off.
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Post by Bryn Mawr »

gmc;1295671 wrote: OK I might be wrong about the exact figures and I didn't bother checking.

Bank reserve the right to vary the terms on an overdraft at their discretion and without discussion. A lot of the banks suddenly tightened up on their lending criteria even going back on already agreed commercial overdrafts Many businesses us a working overdraft to run their business-a jeweller buying stock for christmas will run one up and have it paid off as he sells through the stock, I knew one jeweller twenty years in business and the only time he ever used an agreed overdraft facility was at christmas. the first he knew about the overdraft being withdrawn was when cheques started bouncing. That was his line of credit with suppliers -thirty days to pay etc-gone and Cash on delivery only from then on. Twenty years in business and sic staff laid off because the bank just decided they should change what they had been doing for years. A lot of businesses have had the same thing-tell me how does putting your customers out of business help any bank?

A mortgage, so long as you keep up payments and meet the terms of the contract they can't just call it in. However, if you miss two months they can start repossession proceedings and a lot of them started doing so without giving any leeway to borrowers. Most people have less than three months salary in the bank to lose your business or because the banks are punishing responsible borrowers for their (the banks) own stupidity and then have your house taken as well is a bit much.

OK I would agree with the bail out in the circumstances but that not one single member of senior management has been sacked over this is ridiculous. Redundancies are taking place at branch level all over the place.

and at the end of it we will probably hand the banks back to the city institutions that sat and raked it all in during he good times and got saved by the taxpayer. If nationalised banks are making a profit it should go to the taxpayer and if the high fliers don't like it they should **** off.


No-one's been sacked? How many exec board members are still there?

At the end of the day the government will sell the shareholding back to the city at a profit - they won't be giving it back, that's for sure.
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Post by gmc »

Bryn Mawr;1295907 wrote: No-one's been sacked? How many exec board members are still there?

At the end of the day the government will sell the shareholding back to the city at a profit - they won't be giving it back, that's for sure.


All of them are still there, the whole should have been booted out since they clearly failed at their jobs. OK a few high profile ones fell on their swords but that's it. If a company goes bankrupt the directors are disqualified from being company directors for a while Did that happen? No it didn't.
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Post by Bryn Mawr »

gmc;1296051 wrote: All of them are still there, the whole should have been booted out since they clearly failed at their jobs. OK a few high profile ones fell on their swords but that's it. If a company goes bankrupt the directors are disqualified from being company directors for a while Did that happen? No it didn't.


I think you'll find that half our board's gone and the same will be true of Lloyds - it just happens quietly with nothing but an internal memo to mark their passing.
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Post by gmc »

Bryn Mawr;1296063 wrote: I think you'll find that half our board's gone and the same will be true of Lloyds - it just happens quietly with nothing but an internal memo to mark their passing.


You're probably right-can't say I really looked in to it. bet they all all away with their severance package intact, pensions etc, rather than what they should have got for failing so miserably. Fred the shreds package had to be approved by HMRC, for myners to say he had no choice but to agree is nonsense. If a company is bankrupt they can't pay these kind of things-why should a bank be any different?
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Post by yaaarrrgg »

Every single picture I see of the Tea Parties looks like a ku klux klan meeting of angry white people. I hope it will lose steam eventually, since I'd like to believe it's exhausting to maintain that level of hatred and extremism over several years.

As far as I can tell, most all the "tax policies" that they are angry about have been the status quo every since Reagan. In fact their taxes are probably lower now than then. Seems like an odd time to get upset about it.
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Post by LarsMac »

I had some friends (black) that attended the tea party rally in Tulsa.

There were a number of blacks there, as well as Hispanic, they said. However, when all the photos were posted, it seems not a single black or Hispanic made the cut.

Curious.
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Post by gmc »

Out of curiosity, what percentage of those who have no insurance are black or hispanic?
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