On its own, it's not possible. Britain's criminalization of the drugs trade is bound by international conventions.
Go back to the original question, when will the War on Drugs be won. At some stage reality will surface, there'll be a total about-face by a world-wide treaty renegotiation, suddenly everyone who was against it will be for it and the drugs trade will be legalized in order to put the cartels out of business. Supermarkets and newsagents will take over where the pushers once ruled, there'll be very sensible prohibitions on advertising and excise duty to more than cover the health service implications, the world will go back to the position it was in before World War One where drugs were no more or less a matter of personal discipline than alcohol or tobacco are today.
The day can't come soon enough as far as I'm concerned. It's the only possible victory.
The War on Drugs
The War on Drugs
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
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The War on Drugs
spot;1018709 wrote: On its own, it's not possible. Britain's criminalization of the drugs trade is bound by international conventions.
Go back to the original question, when will the War on Drugs be won. At some stage reality will surface, there'll be a total about-face by a world-wide treaty renegotiation, suddenly everyone who was against it will be for it and the drugs trade will be legalized in order to put the cartels out of business. Supermarkets and newsagents will take over where the pushers once ruled, there'll be very sensible prohibitions on advertising and excise duty to more than cover the health service implications, the world will go back to the position it was in before World War One where drugs were no more or less a matter of personal discipline than alcohol or tobacco are today.
The day can't come soon enough as far as I'm concerned. It's the only possible victory.
I'm listening but -- Would it just be the West happy to do this?
A world wide treaty sounds the ideal solution but will say, The Taliban want to give up it's rich pickings in opium in Afghanistan?
I can't envisage a world-wide treaty with the current problems in the East.
Would not all wars have to come to an end before that could be reality?
Go back to the original question, when will the War on Drugs be won. At some stage reality will surface, there'll be a total about-face by a world-wide treaty renegotiation, suddenly everyone who was against it will be for it and the drugs trade will be legalized in order to put the cartels out of business. Supermarkets and newsagents will take over where the pushers once ruled, there'll be very sensible prohibitions on advertising and excise duty to more than cover the health service implications, the world will go back to the position it was in before World War One where drugs were no more or less a matter of personal discipline than alcohol or tobacco are today.
The day can't come soon enough as far as I'm concerned. It's the only possible victory.
I'm listening but -- Would it just be the West happy to do this?
A world wide treaty sounds the ideal solution but will say, The Taliban want to give up it's rich pickings in opium in Afghanistan?
I can't envisage a world-wide treaty with the current problems in the East.
Would not all wars have to come to an end before that could be reality?
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
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The War on Drugs
It would be very interesting to see what happened if Italy announced tomorrow that all drugs were available in shops?
The murdering mafia would have no-where to go really other than prostitution.
The murdering mafia would have no-where to go really other than prostitution.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
The War on Drugs
oscar;1018754 wrote: The Taliban want to give up it's rich pickings in opium in Afghanistan?Dear oh dear. The Taliban suppressed the opium trade in Afghanistan, they're an upright moral bunch, they had exports down to a twentieth of what it was before their time and after it. If you seriously want to defeat the opium trade in Afghanistan, put the Taliban back in power there.
"Afghanistan briefly witnessed one of the world's most successful anti-drug campaigns when Taliban leader Mullah Mohammed Omar declared that growing poppies is un-Islamic". Would you like to see the figures? http://www.unodc.org/afg/reports_surveys.html - The report you need is Annual Opium Poppy Survey 2001. Check page 26. The US invaded that November and the rates went back to normal.
The international treaties relating to drug criminalization are signed by a bunch of states and they can agree to reverse what they originally chose to implement. The experiment's failed, the war's unwinnable, peace is preferable.
"Afghanistan briefly witnessed one of the world's most successful anti-drug campaigns when Taliban leader Mullah Mohammed Omar declared that growing poppies is un-Islamic". Would you like to see the figures? http://www.unodc.org/afg/reports_surveys.html - The report you need is Annual Opium Poppy Survey 2001. Check page 26. The US invaded that November and the rates went back to normal.
The international treaties relating to drug criminalization are signed by a bunch of states and they can agree to reverse what they originally chose to implement. The experiment's failed, the war's unwinnable, peace is preferable.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
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The War on Drugs
That lot is going to take some digesting. I shall do so while having a nice cup of tea. thankyou
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
The War on Drugs
It strikes me that the world in general prefers to run on prejudice and opinion rather than gather together what few bits of real information might exist and try to come to a rational conclusion. At least you're trying. Not many people do.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
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The War on Drugs
spot;1019052 wrote: It strikes me that the world in general prefers to run on prejudice and opinion rather than gather together what few bits of real information might exist and try to come to a rational conclusion. At least you're trying. Not many people do.
That's because i'm British Spot!!
Never to old to learn, i say, your right, too much bigotry and prejudice.
For e.g. Today i learnt that M.D.F. means medium density fibreboard.
Will return after Dinner.
That's because i'm British Spot!!
Never to old to learn, i say, your right, too much bigotry and prejudice.
For e.g. Today i learnt that M.D.F. means medium density fibreboard.
Will return after Dinner.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
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The War on Drugs
spot;1019052 wrote: It strikes me that the world in general prefers to run on prejudice and opinion rather than gather together what few bits of real information might exist and try to come to a rational conclusion. At least you're trying. Not many people do.
Well, that took alot of reading and i can't say i have digested it fully as there is a huge amount of imformation there.
I was mildly surprised to see that 50% of drug users began in refugee camps in Iran.
I am not clear yet on why opium production increased in Northern, Western and Southern Afghanistan in 2005
Or why it declined in Central, Eastern and North Eastern Afghanistan
I see that as opium cultivation declined in Afghanistan, global opium cultivation fell by approx 16% in 2005.
opium production falling approx 3%
So i am sold on that one.
What i find also unclear is that as a proportion, opium cultivation from Afghanistan equates approx 87% of global opium cultivation.
I find that incredibly high -- or am i missing something??
Well, that took alot of reading and i can't say i have digested it fully as there is a huge amount of imformation there.
I was mildly surprised to see that 50% of drug users began in refugee camps in Iran.
I am not clear yet on why opium production increased in Northern, Western and Southern Afghanistan in 2005
Or why it declined in Central, Eastern and North Eastern Afghanistan
I see that as opium cultivation declined in Afghanistan, global opium cultivation fell by approx 16% in 2005.
opium production falling approx 3%
So i am sold on that one.
What i find also unclear is that as a proportion, opium cultivation from Afghanistan equates approx 87% of global opium cultivation.
I find that incredibly high -- or am i missing something??
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
The War on Drugs
oscar;1019316 wrote: What i find also unclear is that as a proportion, opium cultivation from Afghanistan equates approx 87% of global opium cultivation.
I find that incredibly high -- or am i missing something??
The paragraph at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_on_Dru ... _smuggling is well-sourced and believable. It fits with the way they funded the Contras in Central America slightly earlier. As an explanation for the development of the fields initially and the building of the international transport routes it goes some way to explaining why the figure's so high now. The same arrangements existed after the Vietnam war, CIA-constructed routes out of Laos and Cambodia and, by extension, Burma - the Golden Triangle - centred world production there through the 70s and into the late 80s. If anyone would like to say that's untrue we can discuss the routes and the CIA involvement in creating them.
oscar wrote: I am not clear yet on why opium production increased in Northern, Western and Southern Afghanistan in 2005
Or why it declined in Central, Eastern and North Eastern AfghanistanAfter the invasion in 2003, Northern, Western and Southern Afghanistan came under the control of the Mujahideen warlords sponsored by the US while Central, Eastern and North Eastern Afghanistan (the bits nearest the Pakistan border) remained under Taliban influence. Those divisions are still there now.
I find that incredibly high -- or am i missing something??
The paragraph at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_on_Dru ... _smuggling is well-sourced and believable. It fits with the way they funded the Contras in Central America slightly earlier. As an explanation for the development of the fields initially and the building of the international transport routes it goes some way to explaining why the figure's so high now. The same arrangements existed after the Vietnam war, CIA-constructed routes out of Laos and Cambodia and, by extension, Burma - the Golden Triangle - centred world production there through the 70s and into the late 80s. If anyone would like to say that's untrue we can discuss the routes and the CIA involvement in creating them.
oscar wrote: I am not clear yet on why opium production increased in Northern, Western and Southern Afghanistan in 2005
Or why it declined in Central, Eastern and North Eastern AfghanistanAfter the invasion in 2003, Northern, Western and Southern Afghanistan came under the control of the Mujahideen warlords sponsored by the US while Central, Eastern and North Eastern Afghanistan (the bits nearest the Pakistan border) remained under Taliban influence. Those divisions are still there now.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
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The War on Drugs
spot;1020324 wrote: The paragraph at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_on_Dru ... _smuggling is well-sourced and believable. It fits with the way they funded the Contras in Central America slightly earlier. As an explanation for the development of the fields initially and the building of the international transport routes it goes some way to explaining why the figure's so high now. The same arrangements existed after the Vietnam war, CIA-constructed routes out of Laos and Cambodia and, by extension, Burma - the Golden Triangle - centred world production there through the 70s and into the late 80s. If anyone would like to say that's untrue we can discuss the routes and the CIA involvement in creating them.
After the invasion in 2003, Northern, Western and Southern Afghanistan came under the control of the Mujahideen warlords sponsored by the US while Central, Eastern and North Eastern Afghanistan (the bits nearest the Pakistan border) remained under Taliban influence. Those divisions are still there now.
O.K. I've tried to digest that lot as best i can.
Firstly, it appears that my comment about the CIA being corrupt, that offended our friend Jestor so, was not unfounded.
I find the Justice Policy report that drug free zones are useless at keeping youths away from drugs very interesting.
As i did, the numbers of incarcerated Americans on Drug raps.
Also that alcohol use increased under prohibition by 1922.
I missed the divide in Afghanistan in 2005. I see now that yes, Taliban influenced area's is where Opium production fell.
Mujahideen controlled area's increased.
Do you have any statics for year 2008?
I now can not understand that after "de-criminalising" cannibis to grade C in Britain. they have recently re-regulated it as grade B.
Surely this is going the other way?
I am still trying to digest the imfo in the time i have but yes, i have to be fair, it's quite an eye opener.
After the invasion in 2003, Northern, Western and Southern Afghanistan came under the control of the Mujahideen warlords sponsored by the US while Central, Eastern and North Eastern Afghanistan (the bits nearest the Pakistan border) remained under Taliban influence. Those divisions are still there now.
O.K. I've tried to digest that lot as best i can.
Firstly, it appears that my comment about the CIA being corrupt, that offended our friend Jestor so, was not unfounded.
I find the Justice Policy report that drug free zones are useless at keeping youths away from drugs very interesting.
As i did, the numbers of incarcerated Americans on Drug raps.
Also that alcohol use increased under prohibition by 1922.
I missed the divide in Afghanistan in 2005. I see now that yes, Taliban influenced area's is where Opium production fell.
Mujahideen controlled area's increased.
Do you have any statics for year 2008?
I now can not understand that after "de-criminalising" cannibis to grade C in Britain. they have recently re-regulated it as grade B.
Surely this is going the other way?
I am still trying to digest the imfo in the time i have but yes, i have to be fair, it's quite an eye opener.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
The War on Drugs
oscar;1020401 wrote: I now can not understand that after "de-criminalising" cannibis to grade C in Britain. they have recently re-regulated it as grade B. Surely this is going the other way?There is, as you can imagine, something of a battle going on about it. There are a couple of Chief Constables who want a blanket lifting of drugs restrictions, it's not just me.
Statistics tend to lag a year or two behind the calendar. Firstly you need someone interested enough and powerful enough and rich enough to do the measuring - which is why Iraqi deaths, for example, or US homelessness totals, are so impossible to find authoritative government sources for - and secondly you need what you're measuring to have happened.
Statistics tend to lag a year or two behind the calendar. Firstly you need someone interested enough and powerful enough and rich enough to do the measuring - which is why Iraqi deaths, for example, or US homelessness totals, are so impossible to find authoritative government sources for - and secondly you need what you're measuring to have happened.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
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The War on Drugs
Are drug restriction laws here anything to do with which government is in no 10 although i can't remember anything in post manifesto's?
If it would so drastically reduce bloodshed, police time and prison over-crowding, why has no politician worth his salt come out publically, or have they??
We have a field outside the house and kids get in there drinking and smoking, skunk, i believe they call it. Although what 'skunk' is, i have no idea. I thought it was an obnoxious smelling animal.
Alot of the kids chat to us as they go by and we have our say about them using cannibis. They all seem very confused at the moment. Plod has been recently pulling the kids at an infamous gathering area :sneaky: and stop searching them.
They all thought it was o.k. to have it in possession providing it wasn't enough to be regarded as intent to supply. Now they are being searched and having even the smallest amount confiscated.
If it would so drastically reduce bloodshed, police time and prison over-crowding, why has no politician worth his salt come out publically, or have they??
We have a field outside the house and kids get in there drinking and smoking, skunk, i believe they call it. Although what 'skunk' is, i have no idea. I thought it was an obnoxious smelling animal.
Alot of the kids chat to us as they go by and we have our say about them using cannibis. They all seem very confused at the moment. Plod has been recently pulling the kids at an infamous gathering area :sneaky: and stop searching them.
They all thought it was o.k. to have it in possession providing it wasn't enough to be regarded as intent to supply. Now they are being searched and having even the smallest amount confiscated.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
The War on Drugs
Both parties support the current state of affairs. Neither will be "soft on drugs" for fear of the other party attacking them on it. It'll take an abrupt reversal after an intense debate, eventually, before that's changed.
http://stopthedrugwar.org/chronicle/506 ... ation_call discusses where things stood this time last year. I'll look at which MPs have said they're for abolition - there's more than one, but none are in the cabinet or shadow cabinet.
Skunk is high-strength cannabis resin as opposed to ganja or weed. It's allegedly related to psychotic episodes but. There are lots of vested interests in keeping the War on Drugs who, in my opinion, simply lie without evidence; psychotic people take drugs too; you need a good study to tell such an effect and, as you might guess, nobody's ever gone near one, what you have instead are anecdotal tales.
The one that's had most research is Ecstasy. It's the safest recreational drug of all time alongside LSD, way way safer than alcohol or tobacco.
http://stopthedrugwar.org/chronicle/506 ... ation_call discusses where things stood this time last year. I'll look at which MPs have said they're for abolition - there's more than one, but none are in the cabinet or shadow cabinet.
Skunk is high-strength cannabis resin as opposed to ganja or weed. It's allegedly related to psychotic episodes but. There are lots of vested interests in keeping the War on Drugs who, in my opinion, simply lie without evidence; psychotic people take drugs too; you need a good study to tell such an effect and, as you might guess, nobody's ever gone near one, what you have instead are anecdotal tales.
The one that's had most research is Ecstasy. It's the safest recreational drug of all time alongside LSD, way way safer than alcohol or tobacco.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
The War on Drugs
The question of winning the war on illegal recreational drugs by legalizing their production, distribution and use has finally made the cover of New Scientist this week.
Better world: Legalise drugs - 11 September 2009 - New Scientist
Better world: Legalise drugs - 11 September 2009 - New Scientist
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
The War on Drugs
spot;1010711 wrote: Lon, you have a prior example of legalizing what was previously an illegal drug when Prohibition was lifted on alcohol. Alcohol kills more people than all the illegal drugs added together but it was still considered less harmful to society to take its distribution out of the hands of criminals. Isn't that the same issue that's at stake today? The criminality? There's no criminality associated now with the production or distribution of alcohol other than that associated with tax avoidance which happens in any area of trade, it's not drug-specific. The profits have been brought inside the tax system and declared legitimate, they're part of pension funds just like any other enterprise.
Simple
War on drugs has been won when all material elements are consumed by a greater number of the ethical as defined by their lack of criminal behavior.
See?
Simple
Simple
War on drugs has been won when all material elements are consumed by a greater number of the ethical as defined by their lack of criminal behavior.
See?
Simple
The War on Drugs
K.Snyder;1261976 wrote: Simple
War on drugs has been won when all material elements are consumed by a greater number of the ethical as defined by their lack of criminal behavior.
See?
Simple
The difference being not accepting as to who defines "illegal drugs" rather "illegal drugs" being defined by those who take them irresponsibly. HUGE difference
War on drugs has been won when all material elements are consumed by a greater number of the ethical as defined by their lack of criminal behavior.
See?
Simple
The difference being not accepting as to who defines "illegal drugs" rather "illegal drugs" being defined by those who take them irresponsibly. HUGE difference
The War on Drugs
K.Snyder;1261977 wrote: The difference being not accepting as to who defines "illegal drugs" rather "illegal drugs" being defined by those who take them irresponsibly. HUGE difference
Then surely alcohol should be top of the list, more people use that irresponsibly than any other drug on the market. Would you like to see its recreational use made illegal?
Then surely alcohol should be top of the list, more people use that irresponsibly than any other drug on the market. Would you like to see its recreational use made illegal?
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
The War on Drugs
spot;1240832 wrote: The question of winning the war on illegal recreational drugs by legalizing their production, distribution and use has finally made the cover of New Scientist this week.
Better world: Legalise drugs - 11 September 2009 - New ScientistI was heartened when I saw a piece on the NewsHour here on PBS a few weeks ago. The NewsHour is very cautious and particular about what they offer up with their limited time vs cable news' 24/7 format, though sometimes, to my angst.
Better world: Legalise drugs - 11 September 2009 - New ScientistI was heartened when I saw a piece on the NewsHour here on PBS a few weeks ago. The NewsHour is very cautious and particular about what they offer up with their limited time vs cable news' 24/7 format, though sometimes, to my angst.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,â€
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
The War on Drugs
Robert J;1262035 wrote: I was heartened when I saw a piece on the NewsHour here on PBS a few weeks ago. The NewsHour is very cautious and particular about what they offer up with their limited time vs cable news' 24/7 format, though sometimes, to my angst.
That was specifically about pot and the loss of State revenue resulting from the prohibition, unless I saw the wrong program.
LEAP - Law Enforcement Against Prohibition - Cops Say Legalize Drugs goes rather further.
That was specifically about pot and the loss of State revenue resulting from the prohibition, unless I saw the wrong program.
LEAP - Law Enforcement Against Prohibition - Cops Say Legalize Drugs goes rather further.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
The War on Drugs
spot;1262046 wrote: That was specifically about pot and the loss of State revenue resulting from the prohibition, unless I saw the wrong program.
LEAP - Law Enforcement Against Prohibition - Cops Say Legalize Drugs goes rather further.Yes. Now that the Obama administration has decided to curb the government thirst for at least Obama's tenure, the state legislatures that have non criminal marijuana laws are upping the ante in regards to becoming more active themselves in finding ways to cause hardship for users. So frustrating here in the U.S.
I get the impression thats is so much more calm on your turf, no? Actually, mature is probably a more suitable word.
LEAP - Law Enforcement Against Prohibition - Cops Say Legalize Drugs goes rather further.Yes. Now that the Obama administration has decided to curb the government thirst for at least Obama's tenure, the state legislatures that have non criminal marijuana laws are upping the ante in regards to becoming more active themselves in finding ways to cause hardship for users. So frustrating here in the U.S.
I get the impression thats is so much more calm on your turf, no? Actually, mature is probably a more suitable word.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,â€
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
The War on Drugs
Robert J;1262055 wrote: Yes. Now that the Obama administration has decided to curb the government thirst for at least Obama's tenure, the state legislatures that have non criminal marijuana laws are upping the ante in regards to becoming more active themselves in finding ways to cause hardship for users. So frustrating here in the U.S.
I get the impression thats is so much more calm on your turf, no? Actually, mature is probably a more suitable word.
Police discovering possession for personal use nearly always results in confiscation, it would be considered very unusual for it to result in the user being either charged or prosecuted. Court cases are brought against detected growers - it's a mugs game given the infra-red cameras on our police helicopters, growing lofts stand out a mile - and against dealers and importers in general. Confiscations in excess of twenty pounds weight or so are likely to result in jail time. Last month we had "A cannabis grower found with over a kilo of the drug at his home has been spared prison after a court heard it was for his personal use", for example. A grower with a full loft would have more like fifty times that weight. I don't suppose there are more than ten people in a city like Bristol with that sort of ambition.
eta: http://www.justice.gov.uk/publications/ ... -jan08.pdf is a snapshot of the prison population of England and Wales at the beginning of last year. 1 in 8 male and 1 in 3 female prisoners are there for "drug offences", that's primarily for possession of heroin, cocaine and other Class A drugs and for dealing and smuggling Class B. The total number of prisoners for drugs use is around 10,000 which is 0.02% of the population as a whole.
I get the impression thats is so much more calm on your turf, no? Actually, mature is probably a more suitable word.
Police discovering possession for personal use nearly always results in confiscation, it would be considered very unusual for it to result in the user being either charged or prosecuted. Court cases are brought against detected growers - it's a mugs game given the infra-red cameras on our police helicopters, growing lofts stand out a mile - and against dealers and importers in general. Confiscations in excess of twenty pounds weight or so are likely to result in jail time. Last month we had "A cannabis grower found with over a kilo of the drug at his home has been spared prison after a court heard it was for his personal use", for example. A grower with a full loft would have more like fifty times that weight. I don't suppose there are more than ten people in a city like Bristol with that sort of ambition.
eta: http://www.justice.gov.uk/publications/ ... -jan08.pdf is a snapshot of the prison population of England and Wales at the beginning of last year. 1 in 8 male and 1 in 3 female prisoners are there for "drug offences", that's primarily for possession of heroin, cocaine and other Class A drugs and for dealing and smuggling Class B. The total number of prisoners for drugs use is around 10,000 which is 0.02% of the population as a whole.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
The War on Drugs
spot;1262060 wrote: Police discovering possession for personal use nearly always results in confiscation, it would be considered very unusual for it to result in the user being either charged or prosecuted. Court cases are brought against detected growers - it's a mugs game given the infra-red cameras on our police helicopters, growing lofts stand out a mile - and against dealers and importers in general. Confiscations in excess of twenty pounds weight or so are likely to result in jail time. Last month we had "A cannabis grower found with over a kilo of the drug at his home has been spared prison after a court heard it was for his personal use", for example. A grower with a full loft would have more like fifty times that weight. I don't suppose there are more than ten people in a city like Bristol with that sort of ambition.Here, as I'm sure you know, intent to distribute is implied which not only denies us the right to be heard fairly, but puts our police and courts in the business of mind reading. Though the citizenship seems to be more fed up with that practice.
This recession is at least doing some good in that we're finally having a real discussion about this.
This recession is at least doing some good in that we're finally having a real discussion about this.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,â€
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
The War on Drugs
spot;1262032 wrote: Then surely alcohol should be top of the list, more people use that irresponsibly than any other drug on the market. Would you like to see its recreational use made illegal?
Given those statistics not only would I but I'd help it's cause, spot.
My paternal family's from Kentucky, mate, I can get as much moonshine as I wish. :yh_wink
Given those statistics not only would I but I'd help it's cause, spot.
My paternal family's from Kentucky, mate, I can get as much moonshine as I wish. :yh_wink
The War on Drugs
spot;1240832 wrote: The question of winning the war on illegal recreational drugs by legalizing their production, distribution and use has finally made the cover of New Scientist this week.
Better world: Legalise drugs - 11 September 2009 - New Scientist
An estimated 12.8 million Americans, about 6 percent of the household population aged twelve and older, use illegal drugs on a current basis (within the past thirty days). This number of "past-month" drug users has declined by almost 50 percent from the 1979 high of twenty-five million -- a decrease that represents an extraordinary change in behavior. Despite the dramatic drop, more than a third of all Americans twelve and older have tried an illicit drug. Ninety percent of those who have used illegal drugs used marijuana or hashish. Approximately a third used cocaine or took a prescription type drug for nonmedical reasons. About a fifth used LSD. Fortunately, nearly sixty million Americans who used illicit drugs during youth, as adults reject these substances.II. America’s Drug Abuse Profile
Until I see marijuana not used in these studies I can't imagine anyone would ever think about legalizing drugs like cocaine and heroine. Meth is just out of the question and horse tranquilizers are for horses people!
I don't know what it's like in the UK, spot, but legalizing drugs in America is not an option!
Better world: Legalise drugs - 11 September 2009 - New Scientist
An estimated 12.8 million Americans, about 6 percent of the household population aged twelve and older, use illegal drugs on a current basis (within the past thirty days). This number of "past-month" drug users has declined by almost 50 percent from the 1979 high of twenty-five million -- a decrease that represents an extraordinary change in behavior. Despite the dramatic drop, more than a third of all Americans twelve and older have tried an illicit drug. Ninety percent of those who have used illegal drugs used marijuana or hashish. Approximately a third used cocaine or took a prescription type drug for nonmedical reasons. About a fifth used LSD. Fortunately, nearly sixty million Americans who used illicit drugs during youth, as adults reject these substances.II. America’s Drug Abuse Profile
Until I see marijuana not used in these studies I can't imagine anyone would ever think about legalizing drugs like cocaine and heroine. Meth is just out of the question and horse tranquilizers are for horses people!
I don't know what it's like in the UK, spot, but legalizing drugs in America is not an option!