Laura's week of painting

Post by **spot** » Thu Sep 06, 2012 7:42 am

With the departure of her elder sister to school, Laura is grinning widely at having taken over the art table for the rest of the year. She chortles every time it crosses her mind, she positively gloats. Her time has come.

Post by **spot** » Thu Sep 06, 2012 7:43 am

Bird.

TÃ½r · Post by **TÃ½r** » Wed Oct 17, 2012 3:24 am

To take up the thread, here's a bit more:

flopstock · Post by **flopstock** » Wed Oct 17, 2012 6:52 am

I think the middle one is either a horse or a unicorn.

chonsigirl · Post by **chonsigirl** » Wed Oct 17, 2012 1:09 pm

I like the vibrant use of color.

TÃ½r · Post by **TÃ½r** » Wed Oct 17, 2012 3:58 pm

flopstock;1408284 wrote: I think the middle one is either a horse or a unicorn.

I reckon the one above it would work as a set design for the end of Die WalkÃ¼re Act 3, with Wotan walking offstage having set a wall of fire round BrÃ¼nnhilde. But I don't think that was in Laura's mind when she painted it. I do like what he's wearing though. Very properly ravenish.

flopstock · Post by **flopstock** » Wed Oct 17, 2012 4:05 pm

TÃ½r;1408342 wrote: I reckon the one above it would work as a set design for the end of Die WalkÃ¼re Act 3, with Wotan walking offstage having set a wall of fire round BrÃ¼nnhilde. But I don't think that was in Laura's mind when she painted it. I do like what he's wearing though. Very properly ravenish.

Possible... I was thinking more along the lines of a raven.

koan · Post by **koan** » Thu Oct 18, 2012 12:31 am

The first pic has a sense of yearning. I see a raven amidst fire opening its wings to the sun with expectation of satiation.

The next has a sense of learned maturity. The figure sees the fire but has lowered expectations. It is more self contained through experience. Not as easily tempted.

After that comes disintegration a la Dali. I see her heart beating tenuously in the lower corner.

The fourth plunges her into a cold space. She's hiding something.

Next: She reaches out into the cool void, wisps of possibility approaching from above and below.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Thu Oct 18, 2012 3:41 am

Please please please don't infect Laura with over analysing and thinking

TÃ½r · Post by **TÃ½r** » Thu Oct 18, 2012 7:37 am

I think it's quite legitimate for the viewer to react to the paintings in an interpretive fashion - more than legitimate, I think it's unavoidable. I wouldn't try to persuade Laura that the interpretations are a reflection of what she did when she painted them. When she's older she'll form her own associations, she's the only person who can do that from the perspective of the originator but even then that's not going to reflect anything of the initial process. It's all layering, it adds ways of seeing what's on the wall.

What's undoubtedly true, as koan notes, is that they're painted as a progression in time. That's a factual statement. They're not free-standing independent entities, they offer a narrative. The framework koan's offered is clearly there on the wall, sequenced and authentic. I can see that work group generating reactions indefinitely.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Thu Oct 18, 2012 2:37 pm

TÃ½r;1408387 wrote:

What's undoubtedly true, as koan notes, is that they're painted as a progression in time. That's a factual statement. They're not free-standing independent entities, they offer a narrative. The framework koan's offered is clearly there on the wall, sequenced and authentic. I can see that work group generating reactions indefinitely.

What a load of tosh.....better then the B word that first came to mind.....ends in x.

'They are painted as a progression in time'.........of course it's a 'factual statement'.....unless of course she did them ALL at the same time with multiple arms.

They are all sucking up to you as a proud Grandfather, get a grip.

I like the daubings, I think they show a hint of talent..............just let her get on with it, praise and encouragement when due......and make her help clear up.

But please, kids are cleverer than you think.......don't utter such inane drivel in her earshot.

TÃ½r · Post by **TÃ½r** » Thu Oct 18, 2012 3:01 pm

Oddly enough I don't think they display talent at all, I don't think anyone at two years old is capable of talent. Or, to put it another way around, I think it's typical of what two years olds can do if sat at an art table and encouraged to wield a brush.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Thu Oct 18, 2012 3:11 pm

TÃ½r;1408410 wrote:

I don't think anyone at two years old is capable of talent.

*Spoken Loudly through a megaphone*

"Stand AWAY from that child"

Post by **Betty Boop** » Thu Oct 18, 2012 3:12 pm

Bruv;1408414 wrote: *Spoken Loudly through a megaphone*

"Stand AWAY from that child"

Oh such wise words Bruv

TÃ½r · Post by **TÃ½r** » Fri Oct 19, 2012 1:17 am

You both appear to subscribe to Nature as the leading influence as opposed to Nurture. My experience tends toward a different conclusion. You might both agree that the jury's still out on that question.

koan · Post by **koan** » Fri Oct 19, 2012 3:05 am

Infecting them with analysis?

lol

The art world is all about taking something with or without merit and finding words to make it seem intellectual. I'm giving the girl a chance at making a lot of money.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Fri Oct 19, 2012 3:42 am

koan;1408441 wrote: Infecting them with analysis?

lol

The art world is all about taking something with or without merit and finding words to make it seem intellectual. I'm giving the girl a chance at making a lot of money.

"Please please please don't infect Laura with over analysing and thinking"

Was what I really said.

Now you are off on a tangent about "The Art World"......that's got bugger all to do with the naive daubings of a 5 year old...

Why did money come into this ?

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Fri Oct 19, 2012 3:45 am

TÃ½r;1408440 wrote: You both appear to subscribe to Nature as the leading influence as opposed to Nurture. My experience tends toward a different conclusion. You might both agree that the jury's still out on that question.

You assume muchly.....

Nurture all you like, without nature you are on a loser.

koan · Post by **koan** » Fri Oct 19, 2012 4:40 am

Bruv;1408445 wrote: "Please please please don't infect Laura with over analysing and thinking"

Was what I really said.

Now you are off on a tangent about "The Art World"......that's got bugger all to do with the naive daubings of a 5 year old...

Why did money come into this ?
It's not a tangent. It's directly related to the thread topic. Since the OP is not confused about my intent and dry humour I don't see why you would be.

eta: I can't believe anyone would think I posted my "critique" seriously. I just managed to find things that were believable. Too good at my own jokes.

Snowfire · Post by **Snowfire** » Fri Oct 19, 2012 7:50 am

TÃ½r;1408440 wrote: You both appear to subscribe to Nature as the leading influence as opposed to Nurture. My experience tends toward a different conclusion. You might both agree that the jury's still out on that question.

My 20 month old Granddaughter, as a result of her Mother and Father constantly, talking to her , playing with her, reading to/with her, has shown a remarkable leap in her ability to communicate with us. She understands and responds, with a large vocabulary - strings several words together, although not always pronouncing perfectly and shows a sophisticated sense of humour for someone so young. The health visitor was amazed when Shaya stated that she "wanted to read a book now" and went and picked her favourite....Peppa Pig

That would suggest good positive nurturing and not being left to nature itself. Very proud of my daughter for that.

koan · Post by **koan** » Fri Oct 19, 2012 8:36 am

I had been under the impression this was a fun thread when posted. All of a sudden we're going to judge what kind of grandparent he is?

You can enjoy a child's painting without claiming it to be a work of genius.

Attributing genius to childish swatches of paint happens all the time in the art world and it's frickin' funny. Anyone who can't keep good humour in this thread should probably not post in it.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Fri Oct 19, 2012 9:30 am

koan;1408447 wrote: It's not a tangent. It's directly related to the thread topic. Since the OP is not confused about my intent and dry humour I don't see why you would be.

eta: I can't believe anyone would think I posted my "critique" seriously. I just managed to find things that were believable. Too good at my own jokes.

Two dry people is too many in one thread...................

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Fri Oct 19, 2012 9:32 am

koan;1408471 wrote: I had been under the impression this was a fun thread when posted. All of a sudden we're going to judge what kind of grandparent he is?

You can enjoy a child's painting without claiming it to be a work of genius.

Attributing genius to childish swatches of paint happens all the time in the art world and it's frickin' funny. Anyone who can't keep good humour in this thread should probably not post in it.

This post was over the page, and I posted before seeing it......funny that ?

koan · Post by **koan** » Fri Oct 19, 2012 12:58 pm

Bruv;1408473 wrote: This post was over the page, and I posted before seeing it......funny that ?
hilarious.

Attributing mature intent to a 2 yr old's painting can, indeed, lead to money:

Her featured gallery show is called "Prodigy Of Colour" and, at 4yrs old, she sold a painting for $26 000 called "Asteroid"

I'm pretty sure she didn't come up with those names.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Fri Oct 19, 2012 1:12 pm

koan;1408495 wrote: hilarious.

You say hilarious but it's the way you say it.......

I think Tyr's on a winner here.......if these paintings are anything to go by, young Laura is worth a fortune.......and Tyr is the guy to manage her.

koan · Post by **koan** » Fri Oct 19, 2012 1:21 pm

Bruv;1408497 wrote: You say hilarious but it's the way you say it.......
Really? Because I thought I put the emphasis on the right syllable.

I think Tyr's on a winner here.......if these paintings are anything to go by, young Laura is worth a fortune.......and Tyr is the guy to manage her.
"Prodigy Of Colour" Someone came up with that.

TÃ½r · Post by **TÃ½r** » Sat Oct 20, 2012 12:00 am

Bruv;1408446 wrote: You assume muchly.....

Nurture all you like, without nature you are on a loser.

My understanding of this, together with that of a lot of people in the UK, was coloured by the politically explosive fraudulent research of Cyril Burt - if you have any good reason for saying that talent derives predominantly from nature rather than nurture I'd be keen to see what it is. To the best of my understanding and education it's certainly not demonstrable other than by non-significant anecdote.

As for "Stand AWAY from that child", in these days of mob hysteria those words are just plain incendiary regardless of whether you're trying to crack a joke or not. I simply can't understand how you could post them. All I've done is to record five paintings constructed by a two year old in my presence and with my encouragement, and I started the thread because I'd done as much for her sister during the summer. I'm baffled that I should be assumed to regard her as talented on the strength of them and I don't. The paintings exist because of the opportunity, not from any pre-existing inbuilt painterly trend within her family or spontaneously within herself. Snowfire's post appears to support what I'm suggesting.

Other people constructing a storyline from the paintings is a separate venture and one which I hope has only just started but they're stories constructed by other people from within their own minds. They're aspects of the paint and the canvas and the brushes and the moment, not inbuilt aspects of Laura's expression. That, to my mind, makes the paintings inherently more interesting than representational art. I think we have an inbuilt pattern-interpreting capacity which demands we make such interpretation. I tend toward trying to enjoy non-representational art without my secondary layer of storytelling on top of it but I doubt whether I'm capable. The stories which manifest themselves from Felicity and Laura's particular combination of paint and canvas and brushes and moments are hard to ignore.

TÃ½r · Post by **TÃ½r** » Sat Oct 20, 2012 12:32 am

Bruv;1408407 wrote: 'They are painted as a progression in time'.........of course it's a 'factual statement'.....unless of course she did them ALL at the same time with multiple arms.On a point of information, to clarify what the words are there for, the paintings appear in this thread in the same order as they were produced in the studio. Which, on vBulletin software, takes a degree of trial and error on the part of the poster followed by a rigorous application of the experience. I recorded the fact because sequential storytelling, as opposed to interpreting randomly-ordered snapshots, requires a knowledge of the sequence.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Sat Oct 20, 2012 3:29 am

TÃ½r;1408512 wrote: My understanding of this, together with that of a lot of people in the UK, was coloured by the politically explosive fraudulent research of Cyril Burt - if you have any good reason for saying that talent derives predominantly from nature rather than nurture I'd be keen to see what it is. To the best of my understanding and education it's certainly not demonstrable other than by non-significant anecdote.

As for "Stand AWAY from that child", in these days of mob hysteria those words are just plain incendiary regardless of whether you're trying to crack a joke or not. I simply can't understand how you could post them. All I've done is to record five paintings constructed by a two year old in my presence and with my encouragement, and I started the thread because I'd done as much for her sister during the summer. I'm baffled that I should be assumed to regard her as talented on the strength of them and I don't. The paintings exist because of the opportunity, not from any pre-existing inbuilt painterly trend within her family or spontaneously within herself. Snowfire's post appears to support what I'm suggesting.

Other people constructing a storyline from the paintings is a separate venture and one which I hope has only just started but they're stories constructed by other people from within their own minds. They're aspects of the paint and the canvas and the brushes and the moment, not inbuilt aspects of Laura's expression. That, to my mind, makes the paintings inherently more interesting than representational art. I think we have an inbuilt pattern-interpreting capacity which demands we make such interpretation. I tend toward trying to enjoy non-representational art without my secondary layer of storytelling on top of it but I doubt whether I'm capable. The stories which manifest themselves from Felicity and Laura's particular combination of paint and canvas and brushes and moments are hard to ignore.

TÃ½r;1408514 wrote: On a point of information, to clarify what the words are there for, the paintings appear in this thread in the same order as they were produced in the studio. Which, on vBulletin software, takes a degree of trial and error on the part of the poster followed by a rigorous application of the experience. I recorded the fact because sequential storytelling, as opposed to interpreting randomly-ordered snapshots, requires a knowledge of the sequence.

koan;1408471 wrote: I had been under the impression this was a fun thread when posted...................................
So did I........Anyone who can't keep good humour in this thread should probably not post in it.
Does that include everybody ?

Bruv;1408472 wrote: Two dry people is too many in one thread...................

Perhaps humour without the subtleties of facial expression voice tone are better not attempted on forum, especially when children and elderly men are involved.

(Spoken with a wry smile, followed by a wink and a nod to any uninterested third party)

Bruv backs out the door........suitably chided and bemused.