Help understanding a Dali painting

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Snowfire
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Help understanding a Dali painting

Post by Snowfire »

While I'm not neccessarily a huge Dali fan, some of his work is striking.

The first time I ever saw this piece of art I was a young boy and it took my breath away. I still think its one of the most astonishing and powerful paintings I have ever seen.

My question is does anybody know what the article nailed to the top of the cross is. I looks like a piece of paper but has no writing on it. It has two folds perpenidular to each other. It just seems to me to be significant but I dont know why.

Perhaps there are some Biblical scholars who can understand the significance and explain to me.

Christ of St John of the Cross

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Oscar Namechange
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Post by Oscar Namechange »

It's shyte
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Post by Betty Boop »

oscar;1181990 wrote: It's shyte


In 'your' opinion, ever heard of not saying anything at all if you can't say something nice or something even at least a little bit constructive. :rolleyes:
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Snowfire
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Post by Snowfire »

oscar;1181990 wrote: It's shyte


Really ? Not to your discerning taste then ?

I beg to differ
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Post by Betty Boop »

I think it's outstanding Snow, sorry can't help with your question.
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Post by Oscar Namechange »

Snowfire;1182001 wrote: Really ? Not to your discerning taste then ?

I beg to differ
I must admit that i'm no art critic. I'm sure if i took time to look more carefully then i would see what you see. The only art i really like is Monet and the like.
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Post by Snowfire »

oscar;1182004 wrote: I must admit that i'm no art critic. I'm sure if i took time to look more carefully then i would see what you see. The only art i really like is Monet and the like.


Oh I dont know art at all. Whats the saying ? " I dont know about art but I know what I like "

It was and still is, a powerful painting, especially for a young boy. I stared at it for ages
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Post by Snowfire »

Betty Boop;1182003 wrote: I think it's outstanding Snow, sorry can't help with your question.


Thank you anyway Betty ;)
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Post by Oscar Namechange »

Snowfire;1182006 wrote: Oh I dont know art at all. Whats the saying ? " I dont know about art but I know what I like "

It was and still is, a powerful painting, especially for a young boy. I stared at it for ages


Yes it is and i do admire people who can paint like that. For me, it could be sheer genious but i like what i like. I like aviation art and have a few pics but can't display them because i smoke in the house.
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Post by along-for-the-ride »

I hope this helps, Snowfire.

What does INRI mean Seven Last Words of Jesus



I remember one of my uncles, who has since passed away, had drawn a pencil sketch with the same theme; the crucifixion from another perspective. I have never forgotten it. Very dramatic.
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Post by Oscar Namechange »

along-for-the-ride;1182012 wrote: I hope this helps, Snowfire.

What does INRI mean Seven Last Words of Jesus



I remember one of my uncles, who has since passed away, had drawn a pencil sketch with the same theme; the crucifixion from another perspective. I have never forgotten it. Very dramatic. My Dad painted nothing but trees :thinking::thinking:
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Post by Rapunzel »

Snowfire;1181988 wrote: While I'm not neccessarily a huge Dali fan, some of his work is striking.

The first time I ever saw this piece of art I was a young boy and it took my breath away. I still think its one of the most astonishing and powerful paintings I have ever seen.

My question is does anybody know what the article nailed to the top of the cross is. I looks like a piece of paper but has no writing on it. It has two folds perpenidular to each other. It just seems to me to be significant but I dont know why.

Perhaps there are some Biblical scholars who can understand the significance and explain to me.

Christ of St John of the Cross


Well spotted, it is very significant. When Jesus was hung on the cross the soldiers wrote I.N.R.I on a piece of paper and nailed it to the cross over the head of Jesus. It stands for Iesus Nazarenus Rex Iudeorum meaning Jesus of Nazareth, King of the Jews. The soldiers were mocking Jesus by calling him the King of the Jews when, in their eyes, he was just a poor lying peasant boy.

I guess in a way you could compare it to Princess Diana being called Queen of Hearts, some people believe she was a true Queen in all she did and was beloved by the people, others believe she was a manipulative charlatan. So Jesus was beloved by the Jews and mocked by the Romans.

I can't see any letters on Dali's painting, but any Catholic could tell you what is written there so I'm guessing he assumes you just automatically know, unless he's being a little enigmatic? :rolleyes:
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Post by Snowfire »

along-for-the-ride;1182012 wrote: I hope this helps, Snowfire.

What does INRI mean Seven Last Words of Jesus



I remember one of my uncles, who has since passed away, had drawn a pencil sketch with the same theme; the crucifixion from another perspective. I have never forgotten it. Very dramatic.


Thank You AFTR. That explains it. I wonder why Dali never actually wrote those letters on the paper ? Why did he choose to leave it blank ?
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Post by Snowfire »

Rapunzel;1182022 wrote: Well spotted, it is very significant. When Jesus was hung on the cross the soldiers wrote I.N.R.I on a piece of paper and nailed it to the cross over the head of Jesus. It stands for Iesus Nazarenus Rex Iudeorum meaning Jesus of Nazareth, King of the Jews. The soldiers were mocking Jesus by calling him the King of the Jews when, in their eyes, he was just a poor lying peasant boy.

I guess in a way you could compare it to Princess Diana being called Queen of Hearts, some people believe she was a true Queen in all she did and was beloved by the people, others believe she was a manipulative charlatan. So Jesus was beloved by the Jews and mocked by the Romans.

I can't see any letters on Dali's painting, but any Catholic could tell you what is written there so I'm guessing he assumes you just automatically know, unless he's being a little enigmatic? :rolleyes:


Sorry rapunzel I missed your post. Thanks. Yep Dali having a little joke with us by deliberately leaving it blank, perhaps. Was he a devout Catholic ? Would that be why there are no letters
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Post by Rapunzel »

Snowfire;1182024 wrote: Sorry rapunzel I missed your post. Thanks. Yep Dali having a little joke with us by deliberately leaving it blank, perhaps. Was he a devout Catholic ? Would that be why there are no letters


Thats okay, I missed yours too. ;) I was typing as you replied and you must have been doing the same when I replied. :wah: I have no idea if Dali was a devout Catholic but its worth a google. :wah: I was brought up as a Roman Catholic but am in no way devout, or even practising. I believe in Christianity and being a good and kind person, I don't believe all the waffle the Catholics stuff down your throat. They expect you to believe without understanding. Maybe Dali was interested rather than being a true believer?
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Post by pinkchick »

oscar;1181990 wrote: It's shyte


Everyone is entitled to there own view on something. I have to say that I completely disagree though.

I find it to be a very moving piece of art. I don't know if I'd say I like it but there is something in it that captivates me.

Thank you for posting it Mr Snowfire :)
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Post by chonsigirl »

A link for understanding the geometrical proportions in this painting, and what they mean.

HSU Library Art - Dali - The Crucifixion
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Post by Snowfire »

Rapunzel;1182030 wrote: Thats okay, I missed yours too. ;) I was typing as you replied and you must have been doing the same when I replied. :wah: I have no idea if Dali was a devout Catholic but its worth a google. :wah: I was brought up as a Roman Catholic but am in no way devout, or even practising. I believe in Christianity and being a good and kind person, I don't believe all the waffle the Catholics stuff down your throat. They expect you to believe without understanding. Maybe Dali was interested rather than being a true believer?


Yeah I like that. That would make sense. I havent googled but something strikes me with him being a surreal painter that maybe Christianity in general might not sit comfortably with him. Just throwing something in the middle.
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Post by Snowfire »

pinkchick;1182033 wrote: Everyone is entitled to there own view on something. I have to say that I completely disagree though.

I find it to be a very moving piece of art. I don't know if I'd say I like it but there is something in it that captivates me.

Thank you for posting it Mr Snowfire :)


Thanks Pinkstuff. No ones ever called me MR before :-4
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Post by chonsigirl »

This painting was to show that faith and science do exist-the link shows that the piercing of the nails in His hand are not present, as Dali has taken it from the 3rd to the 4th dimension, onto a spiritual plane.
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Post by Snowfire »

chonsigirl;1182034 wrote: A link for understanding the geometrical proportions in this painting, and what they mean.

HSU Library Art - Dali - The Crucifixion


Thank you Chonsi.

It always struck me as being very architectural in its structure. Very mathematical as all church architecture is
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Post by Rapunzel »

There are three comments I would like to make on this picture.

Firstly, Jesus was nailed to the cross between two thieves. It was a long time before I found out that most crucified victims lingered on the cross, sometimes for many days. In order to breathe they would have to straighten their legs and force their bodies upwards to grab a breath of air. Jesus' feet were nailed to the cross and it would have been excruciating to have forced his body upwards to grab that breath.

Also, the Roman custom was to break the legs of the crucified, smashing their legs with iron rods, starting with the toes and breaking the legs until the criminal died.The Romans used a large wooden mallet to smash the legs of the victims until their bones were nothing but splinters. (The Greek word translated "broken" means "to shiver to pieces.") That caused the body weight to shift onto the two nail wounds in the wrists, resulting in suffocation of the internal organs. When the victim could still use his legs, he could push himself up to breathe. But once his legs were smashed, the victim had no way to prevent his body from suffocating. The pain would be excruciating. When it was Jesus’ turn, he was already dead, so they did not break his legs, although they did break those of the thieves crucified on either side of him. Their bodies could not be removed from the cross until after they were dead.



Secondly, I always thought this picture of "The Praying Hands" was of Jesus' hands. Not so. I love this picture and I love the story of its true meaning and identity.

Praying Hands

Thirdly, I like this story of the fourth nail.

4thnail.com - Legend of the 4rth Nail

and I thought this was a clever play on the idea of the fourth nail.

Fourth Nail - Indiana Jones Wiki
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Post by G-man »

Interesting points of views... I don't believe any are wrong, really.

What makes this painting surreal lies solely in the fact that there are two perspectives... one seen from G_d's point of view and the other of the sea seen at eye level, with Chr_st being the bridge between heaven and earth.


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Post by spot »

Snowfire;1181988 wrote: My question is does anybody know what the article nailed to the top of the cross is. I looks like a piece of paper but has no writing on it. It has two folds perpenidular to each other. It just seems to me to be significant but I dont know why.


You'll notice from the harsh lighting shadows that the Christ only touches the cross tangentially if at all at, at most, three points. Similarly the proclamation attaches only, at most, along its lowest edge as far as the shadow indicates. The portion of the page visible from the viewer's perspective is parallel with the cross, unlike the indicated shadow element. I think that perspective only works if the page has been folded down in half and what you're viewing is the top half of the back of the page upside-down. Any writing like INRI is hidden within the fold.

Oscar, you could say "It's X" of anything, with X being any comment, and be just as meaningless as you were there. The only part of your sentence which could be meaningful is what follows the missing "because", and you refused to write it. Dali's Christ of Saint John of the Cross is shyte because... he couldn't draw? He failed to stick to the gospel description? He was Spanish? He's dead?

The one aspect you can't attack him on is draughtsmanship, I doubt whether any other fine artist has ever come close to his standard. As for religious orthodoxy no, what he paints is worrying rather than conventional or dogmatically unquestioning.
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Post by Snowfire »

Thank you Spot

I've looked at it again. I'm struck by the angle of the lighting. from the extreme right from the viewers perspective and thats what casts the long shadow of the proclomation. I'm interested by what you say about Christ's attachment to the cross. The nails are not visible - as there are none - obviously quite deliberate, his attachment being minimal to say the least, like he is floating. Could not the same be said of the proclomation and could that all have any symbolic significance. OK I'm just throwing in something here - Dali's detachment from his Catholisism. Just me thinking aloud

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Snowfire;1182254 wrote: Thank you Spot

I've looked at it again. I'm struck by the angle of the lighting. from the extreme right from the viewers perspective and thats what casts the long shadow of the proclomation. I'm interested by what you say about Christ's attachment to the cross. The nails are not visible - as there are none - obviously quite deliberate, his attachment being minimal to say the least, like he is floating. Could not the same be said of the proclomation and could that all have any symbolic significance. OK I'm just throwing in something here - Dali's detachment from his Catholisism. Just me thinking aloud

Are you back or is this a flying visit ?


I happen to have access to a computer today. I tried to get online last night with a Pentium 266 with 64Mb and it was a struggle running Firefox so I doubt whether I'll make many posts from that, I'm just going to have to get a replacement computer sometime.

As for Dali's own state of grace, my limited understanding is that he had a wild off-course time until his later years at which point he became reattached to Catholicism and to the best of my knowledge became a reconciled member of the Church.

The small thumb-curl on the bottom right of the abandoned paper, the lack of nails, the unnatural perfection of the cross and the rather beefy fit state of the Saviour all suggest to me that Dali's depicting the eternal Godhead rather than the specific Good Friday act, locating it in heaven rather than on earth but indicating that perpetual suffering is a way of life if you're omnipotent.
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Post by kazalala »

I like it,,, but im not sure why:) I do like pictures that have something happening,,and with people in,,, and i just get the feeling with this that something is happening:thinking:




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Post by Betty Boop »

spot;1182257 wrote: I happen to have access to a computer today. I tried to get online last night with a Pentium 266 with 64Mb and it was a struggle running Firefox so I doubt whether I'll make many posts from that, I'm just going to have to get a replacement computer sometime.

As for Dali's own state of grace, my limited understanding is that he had a wild off-course time until his later years at which point he became reattached to Catholicism and to the best of my knowledge became a reconciled member of the Church.

The small thumb-curl on the bottom right of the abandoned paper, the lack of nails, the unnatural perfection of the cross and the rather beefy fit state of the Saviour all suggest to me that Dali's depicting the eternal Godhead rather than the specific Good Friday act, locating it in heaven rather than on earth but indicating that perpetual suffering is a way of life if you're omnipotent.


You certainly are, you have been missed :-6
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Post by Bryn Mawr »

I found this to be an interesting analysis of the picture :-

Dali's Christ of Saint John of the Cross - My Take

Magnificent painting and very effective.
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