Living behind the Emerald Curtain

A forum to discuss local issues in Ireland.
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capt_buzzard
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Living behind the Emerald Curtain

Post by capt_buzzard »

While the protestant (Anglican Community) poplation had declined in the Irish Republic from 10.7pc to 3.7pc between 1902 to 2002, and most markedly along the border between Northern Ireland and Republic of Ireland, it has begun to rise again, and this is due to immigration.

Border Protestant Perspectives, a report published this week on the experiences of the Anglican Community or Protestant people living in Southern Ireland.It produced a a layered and complex portrait of a people who, historically,fell between two stools when the 450km border was imposed. According to the 2002 Irish census, 5pc of households in Southern border region are protestant, amounting to 7,636 households.

Self-descriptions like ''respected''and ''equal'' dominated in focus group-discussions where the majority of the participants identified themselves as Irish, but ''a small number'' said their pro-British views made it difficult to identify with the Irish State.In the wider community,Protestants were regarded as''hardworking'', ''trustworthy'' and loyal.



Until the 1994 IRA ceasefire, the Irish border was the most militarised zone in the European Union (EU). It was distinguished by the drone of British Army helicopters,military and police checkpoints, customs posts, watch-towers, unapproved roads, smuggling, British Army incursions, cratered roads and dismantled bridges.

Even today,with an end to the violence and with the economic improvement, there is still a shadow of the border areas. Whole familes having torn apart by the British Army and IRA fighting of over 30 years.

But isn't time to bring down the barriers between an Irish people for Peace amongst brothers.It is time that Protestant Community became involved in all Irish affairs and became full citizens of Ireland.





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spot
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Post by spot »

I'm not going to find this easy to debate since I feel totally uninformed in comparison. Be gentle with me. OK, there was a Protestant Republican movement at one time, Captain, I'm sure you're aware of that.

The Unionists grew out of the political movement among Protestants, centred on Carson, to remain ascendent in Irish affairs by keeping political and military control of Ireland in the hands of the British. Bear in mind that a strong thread of British political thinking, around Gladstone for example, was for letting the Irish as a whole come to an internal accomodation once the Unionists had nobody over the water holding their hand any longer.

The only remaining intransigence is Unionist. I truly don't see why any Republican would want to feed Unionism by not openly, gloatingly, triumphantly opening all of the caches and decommissioning. There's no defeat or loss of face in that, there's just the pulling of the last veils from Paisleyite intransigence. Leave it standing naked for all to see, and it will die of shame.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
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gmc
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Living behind the Emerald Curtain

Post by gmc »

posted by spot

The only remaining intransigence is Unionist. I truly don't see why any Republican would want to feed Unionism by not openly, gloatingly, triumphantly opening all of the caches and decommissioning. There's no defeat or loss of face in that, there's just the pulling of the last veils from Paisleyite intransigence. Leave it standing naked for all to see, and it will die of shame.


Just o play devil's advocate. Would you as a protestant (don't know of you are or not and don't particularly care to know this is just to raise a point) want to be joined or part of a country where the catholic church holds sway? Also if you prefer to remain British rather than Irish.
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spot
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Post by spot »

In what sense is the Roman Catholic Church recognized by the Republic of Ireland, gmc? Where is this official "sway" of which you speak?

I note, to the contrary, that the Anglican heirarchy is the official State Religion of the United Kingdom, and that the Head of the Church is also the Head of State.

If you clear that bit up, I might more easily decide which allegiance to adopt.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
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capt_buzzard
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Post by capt_buzzard »

The viiolence itself has left some unfinished business.The Protestant minority community on the southern side of the border still feels sore and vulnerable while there are equally unresolved issues among the nationalist communities.The survey 'Border Protestant Perspectives', pointed out that, while services were introduced in Northern Ireland after the ceasefire for the victims of the Troubles, there was no equivalent response in the Irish Republic.



Fine Gael www.finegael.ie/ (Irish State) MP, Seymour Crawford is a member of the Presbyterian Church and was first elected to the Irish Government in 1992, having previously been active in the Irish Farmers Association (57pc) of respondents to the Border Protestant Perspectives survey said they voted Fine Gael.

The Emerald Curtain report concluded, There is a feeling that it (Protestant Community) is not valued at a time when Ireland is learning to understand about its new minority communites. Even at a practical level, the Protestant community is not on the civic list when visitors come to Southern Ireland from other countries.

The Protestant community finds a genuine difficulty in devising a way forward so that its voice, or multiple voices may best be heard.







Other Irish Republic Political Parties. The Government party Fianna Fail www.fiannafail.ie



Progressive Democrats www.progressivedemocrats.ie



Labour -Social Democrats www.labour.ie



And last Sinn Fein www.sinnfein.ie
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capt_buzzard
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Post by capt_buzzard »

spot wrote: I'm not going to find this easy to debate since I feel totally uninformed in comparison. Be gentle with me. OK, there was a Protestant Republican movement at one time, Captain, I'm sure you're aware of that.



The Unionists grew out of the political movement among Protestants, centred on Carson, to remain ascendent in Irish affairs by keeping political and military control of Ireland in the hands of the British. Bear in mind that a strong thread of British political thinking, around Gladstone for example, was for letting the Irish as a whole come to an internal accomodation once the Unionists had nobody over the water holding their hand any longer.



The only remaining intransigence is Unionist. I truly don't see why any Republican would want to feed Unionism by not openly, gloatingly, triumphantly opening all of the caches and decommissioning. There's no defeat or loss of face in that, there's just the pulling of the last veils from Paisleyite intransigence. Leave it standing naked for all to see, and it will die of shame.Spot, a Protestant Republican Movement of 1798 and I might add of 1916.
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capt_buzzard
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Post by capt_buzzard »

gmc wrote: posted by spot





Just o play devil's advocate. Would you as a protestant (don't know of you are or not and don't particularly care to know this is just to raise a point) want to be joined or part of a country where the catholic church holds sway? Also if you prefer to remain British rather than Irish.gnc, Some of us have been born in the Free State:p
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capt_buzzard
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Post by capt_buzzard »

spot wrote: In what sense is the Roman Catholic Church recognized by the Republic of Ireland, gmc? Where is this official "sway" of which you speak?



I note, to the contrary, that the Anglican heirarchy is the official State Religion of the United Kingdom, and that the Head of the Church is also the Head of State.



If you clear that bit up, I might more easily decide which allegiance to adopt.92% of the Irish Republic are Roman Catholic in name only. But a new survey revealed that only 65% actually claimed to be Roman Catholic in 2002. Islam is the fastest growing religion amongst the under 35-year olds. The Christian Churches are empty on sunday's except for few over 65-year olds.

Humanism is gaining to be popular among the over 35s.



The Catholic Church in Ireland as a whole has gained a few new members from Eastern Europe, such a Poland.
gmc
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Post by gmc »

posted by spot

I note, to the contrary, that the Anglican heirarchy is the official State Religion of the United Kingdom, and that the Head of the Church is also the Head of State.


Actually it's official state religon of England not the United Kingdom scotland has it's own church.-din't know about the Welsh.

http://www.tiscali.co.uk/reference/ency ... 13703.html

covenanter

In Scottish history, one of the Presbyterian Christians who swore to uphold their forms of worship in a National Covenant, signed on 28 February 1638, when Charles I attempted to introduce a liturgy on the English model into Scotland.

A general assembly abolished episcopacy, and the Covenanters signed with the English Parliament the Solemn League and Covenant in 1643, promising military aid in return for the establishment of Presbyterianism in England. A Scottish army entered England and fought at Marston Moor in 1644. At the Restoration Charles II revived episcopacy in Scotland, evicting resisting ministers, so that revolts followed in 1666, 1679, and 1685. However, Presbyterianism was again restored 1688


Yes protestant just didn't kill catholics they killed each other with equal enthusiasm.

What I meant was would you want to live in a country where the catholic church-or any church fpr that matter-had tremendous influence over social policy-take conraception for instance, most in the UK take that as individual choice, my understanding is in Ireland the choice is made for you. Although that is still the case or not I don't know.
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capt_buzzard
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Post by capt_buzzard »

gmc wrote: posted by spot





Actually it's official state religon of England not the United Kingdom scotland has it's own church.-din't know about the Welsh.



http://www.tiscali.co.uk/reference/ency ... 13703.html



covenanter





Yes protestant just didn't kill catholics they killed each other with equal enthusiasm.



What I meant was would you want to live in a country where the catholic church-or any church fpr that matter-had tremendous influence over social policy-take conraception for instance, most in the UK take that as individual choice, my understanding is in Ireland the choice is made for you. Although that is still the case or not I don't know.We voted in a referendum for divorce and conraception 20 years ago and it was granted under the democratic vote. I don't think the English, Scottish or Welsh are allowed a democratic referendum vote?
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spot
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Post by spot »

capt_buzzard wrote: We voted in a referendum for divorce and conraception 20 years ago and it was granted under the democratic vote. I don't think the English, Scottish or Welsh are allowed a democratic referendum vote?We've all had them, but they're rare. The Scots and Welsh had two each on devolution, which ended up with the Assemblies being created. There have been English Regional Assembly referenda which have had No majorities. The UK entered the EU on a referendum from Heath. We're promised one in England at least (I'm not sure on that, it might be a UK one) on adopting the Euro as and when it looks winnable.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
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capt_buzzard
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Post by capt_buzzard »

spot wrote: We've all had them, but they're rare. The Scots and Welsh had two each on devolution, which ended up with the Assemblies being created. There have been English Regional Assembly referenda which have had No majorities. The UK entered the EU on a referendum from Heath. We're promised one in England at least (I'm not sure on that, it might be a UK one) on adopting the Euro as and when it looks winnable.Then I won't have to change my money:Devery time I visit London
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