1984

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Accountable
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1984

Post by Accountable »

Sit back and have a read.







George Orwell - 1984
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dubs
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Post by dubs »

Fantastic!!!




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Rapunzel
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Post by Rapunzel »

I read it years ago and although it was a fascinating insight into the future of democracy as seen from a post-war viewpoint (and how close to reality has Orwell (Blair) actually come?), I was sickened by the image of rats gnawing at Winston Smith's face and so wouldn't want to read it again! :p

If you like stories of authority gone mad, have you read Lord of the Flies by William Golding? If you enjoyed 1984 you'd enjoy that too. :-6
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Accountable
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Post by Accountable »

gmc
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Post by gmc »

Rapunzel;1223796 wrote: I read it years ago and although it was a fascinating insight into the future of democracy as seen from a post-war viewpoint (and how close to reality has Orwell (Blair) actually come?), I was sickened by the image of rats gnawing at Winston Smith's face and so wouldn't want to read it again! :p

If you like stories of authority gone mad, have you read Lord of the Flies by William Golding? If you enjoyed 1984 you'd enjoy that too. :-6


Actually it was a warning about where communism could lead-as was animal farm. Orwell had become thoroughly disillusioned about communism during the Spanish civil war when they tried to kill him.

It's come quite close to reality in that we will lose our freedoms gradually. The state claiming the need to do away with trials in the interests of security and everyone believing them. We have a party with 35% of the vote but 100% of the power running the country and an unelected Prime minister leading a party where there are c-very few ordinary members and the few there are have little say in how the club is run. ID cards and everyone movements being monitored You don't have to look very far to see newspeak in action. On the other hand 1984 also gave us the words we can use to combat it.

When I was at school it was one of the set titles for the higher, wonder if it still is.
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Nomad
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Post by Nomad »

Accountable;1223202 wrote: Sit back and have a read.







George Orwell - 1984




K

I finished it.

Wheres 1985?
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dubs
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Post by dubs »

I found this site..

E-Books Directory - Categorized Books, Short Reviews, Free Downloads




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OpenMind
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Post by OpenMind »

We didn't cover 1984 at school although we did cover Lord of the Flies.

1984 was a surreal and extreme view of a communist society hoodwinked to believe they had choice. For instance, they could choose what TV channel they wanted to watch but they actually got the channel that the majority chose and so on. Their behaviour was heavily controlled psychologically but they believed that it was their own choice of behaviour.

It is one of those stories that, on the one hand, beggars belief that it could ever happen. Yet, on the other, it pulls at underlying conspiratorial emotions.
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AussiePam
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Post by AussiePam »

We read that at school, and Animal Farm. I liked the concept of Double Speak.
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TenneseeGirl
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Post by TenneseeGirl »

Accountable;1223202 wrote: Sit back and have a read.







George Orwell - 1984


By far my favorite book in the known universe.
~~~~~

Just some food for thought. Swallow it or not that's up to you.:lips:
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AussiePam
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Post by AussiePam »

That's a very interesting absolute favourite, TenneseeGirl !!! I liked it very much too. Why is it so special for you? Or is that too personal a question?
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TenneseeGirl
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Post by TenneseeGirl »

AussiePam;1244663 wrote: That's a very interesting absolute favourite, TenneseeGirl !!! I liked it very much too. Why is it so special for you? Or is that too personal a question?


I really am interested in dystopian themes. The whole genre interests me but I think some of the central controlling mechanisms of 1984 are really things that I see happening in societies around the world today. I know that we are not communist like the concept was based off. However the exploitation of the working class by the people who control the companies and things like that is apparent. I think that while governments say they disagree with the exploitation of human labor they will profit from it and claim ignorance for as long as we allow them.

I think that the use of communications tools as a way to control the population of 1984 is something that is already happening today. In smaller less obvious ways then a giant screen that you know knows everything you do and talks to you. However agenda’s are set by the media today and I do not think that it is such a far stretch with the growth of communication before the TV will talk back to you. I think it will be a combination of 1984 and Fahrenheit 451.

I think government interference and control to the extent that Orwell takes it is inevitable. Especially in societies that sacrifice privacy and personal freedoms (double especially in the aspects of personal communication and transportation).

Also it is the first book that I remember eliciting an emotional reaction from me. I can still remember sitting on the hood of my friend’s truck when the bastages shot Winston. I threw the book across the parking lot and yelled some profanity about big brother. My friends all stared.

Mostly though... I think its ok to kill enemies, but there is something truly wrong when you kill someone who believes in your governmental protection and love with 100% faith. A society without a reform process, where punishment is absolute death, even after you have changed to the standards of that society… That’s wrong.

*sidenote: I am a little tired so if any of this just seems like gibberish ask and I can elaborate.*
~~~~~

Just some food for thought. Swallow it or not that's up to you.:lips:
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Post by AussiePam »

I had a similar reaction when Winston was shot. And in fact that feeling has stayed with me in one sense.

You will of course remember the FarSide cartoon about God, the smite key and the falling piano.

There was a second cartoon showing two skeletal wretches crawling in the desert who finally see an oasis ahead. The waiting buzzards are about to be disappointed. Then and only then, the piano falls from the sky. That's Winston's fate.

As for nightmare worlds.. have you ever read any Anthony Burgess? I very much like The Wanting Seed. I wonder how prophetic that might be?

The Wanting Seed by Anthony Burgess
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Clodhopper
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Post by Clodhopper »

I think one of the best tools we have to counter the sort of nightmare 1984 is on about, is the internet and forums like these....

...unless, of course, none of this is real and you are all just lines of programming that I have been fooled into believing are people. Scareeee!:wah:
The crowd: "Yes! We are all individuals!"

Lone voice: "I'm not."
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TenneseeGirl
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Post by TenneseeGirl »

AussiePam;1244680 wrote: I had a similar reaction when Winston was shot. And in fact that feeling has stayed with me in one sense.

You will of course remember the FarSide cartoon about God, the smite key and the falling piano.

There was a second cartoon showing two skeletal wretches crawling in the desert who finally see an oasis ahead. The waiting buzzards are about to be disappointed. Then and only then, the piano falls from the sky. That's Winston's fate.

As for nightmare worlds.. have you ever read any Anthony Burgess? I very much like The Wanting Seed. I wonder how prophetic that might be?

The Wanting Seed by Anthony Burgess


I have not read that. I will have to look it up. It seems that the series I am reading will never be finished.



Clodhopper;1244743 wrote: I think one of the best tools we have to counter the sort of nightmare 1984 is on about, is the internet and forums like these....

...unless, of course, none of this is real and you are all just lines of programming that I have been fooled into believing are people. Scareeee!:wah:


The problem is that these can easily be lines of code. Also in societies like China people do not have access to things like these. They are treasonous:-3
~~~~~

Just some food for thought. Swallow it or not that's up to you.:lips:
mikeinie
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Post by mikeinie »

1984, Lord of the Flies and Animal Farm, all three brilliant books.

1984 in relation to today I see it hitting the point of media control. Control the masses through constant bombardment of images. Also the way the country had a terrible enemy they were at war with and everyone hated, then suddenly it would change and there would be a new enemy and the old one was now a friend.



Lord of the Flies: Survivor, The Apprentice, and other shows where it is about the social behaviors that capture the audiences.

Animal farm: ‘All animals are created equal… but some animals are more equal than others’ Still true today.
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TenneseeGirl
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Post by TenneseeGirl »

mikeinie;1244862 wrote:

Animal farm: ‘All animals are created equal… but some animals are more equal than others’ Still true today.


Theres a short story by Kurt Vonnegut called Harrison Burgeron. Its about how the only way to make everyone equal is to literally make everyone equal. Bring everyone down to the lowest level. Since some people simply can not be elevated to the status of their peers in aspects of intelligence and beauty and strength: the only way to be truly equal is to make everyone ugly slow and weak.

Sad but I agree with it.
~~~~~

Just some food for thought. Swallow it or not that's up to you.:lips:
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Post by AussiePam »

TenneseeGirl;1244873 wrote: Theres a short story by Kurt Vonnegut called Harrison Burgeron. Its about how the only way to make everyone equal is to literally make everyone equal. Bring everyone down to the lowest level. Since some people simply can not be elevated to the status of their peers in aspects of intelligence and beauty and strength: the only way to be truly equal is to make everyone ugly slow and weak.

Sad but I agree with it.


I dare not get started on that lowest common denominator idea. In Australia we call it the tall poppy syndrome. Chop em all down.

There seems to be something basically politically incorrect about admitting that some people are beyond others in any way, unless it's sport which is fine - so we open the universities to all comers and ease any scholarly rigour which might inconvenience the less intellectually able. Smart we may not be, but at least it's egalitarian. The Force forbid we encourage elite thinkers or put a bunch of them together where they might somehow breed new ideas. GNASH.

I'd like to add 'Brave New World' to our book pile.

And Ira Levin's 'This Perfect Day'

I haven't read the Vonnegut short story. Will find it.
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TenneseeGirl
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Post by TenneseeGirl »

:pAussiePam;1244974 wrote: I dare not get started on that lowest common denominator idea. In Australia we call it the tall poppy syndrome. Chop em all down.

There seems to be something basically politically incorrect about admitting that some people are beyond others in any way, unless it's sport which is fine - so we open the universities to all comers and ease any scholarly rigour which might inconvenience the less intellectually able. Smart we may not be, but at least it's egalitarian. The Force forbid we encourage elite thinkers or put a bunch of them together where they might somehow breed new ideas. GNASH.

I'd like to add 'Brave New World' to our book pile.

And Ira Levin's 'This Perfect Day'

I haven't read the Vonnegut short story. Will find it.




I think that the Political Correctness has a lot to do with not being able to aknowledge the differences in people. It has gone way to far IMO. There was an article I read where the school for the blind was standing up and saying "No its ok we don't need to be called visually impared, we really are blind, and we are ok with it." Of course I will never be able to find that article again :(

I do love BNW though I havent read This Perfect Day.

Soma Holiday anyone?:p
~~~~~

Just some food for thought. Swallow it or not that's up to you.:lips:
gmc
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Post by gmc »

It's an age old debate. Obviously people have different abilities in society bit whether one group or sector is worth more than another is a moot point-as soon as you accept one group is better and more entitled to more privileges in terms of education, health etc then you are on a slippery slope to starting and perpetuating a divided society. People who think they know what is best for society are usually wrong. We're all basically the same no matter what you do or who you are. all jock tamson's bairns' indeed.
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Post by Bryn Mawr »

gmc;1245289 wrote: It's an age old debate. Obviously people have different abilities in society bit whether one group or sector is worth more than another is a moot point-as soon as you accept one group is better and more entitled to more privileges in terms of education, health etc then you are on a slippery slope to starting and perpetuating a divided society. People who think they know what is best for society are usually wrong. We're all basically the same no matter what you do or who you are. all jock tamson's bairns' indeed.


Indeed, who is worth more, the architect who designs a building or the labourer who builds it - neither could succeed without the other.
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Post by AussiePam »

Equal in intellectual capacity. Equal in physical capacity. Equal in beauty. Equal in ethical choices. Equal in opportunity. Equal in endurance. Equal in effort. It was that kind of idea I was addressing, not the intrinsic worth of one human life over another human life.
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Bryn Mawr
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Post by Bryn Mawr »

AussiePam;1245423 wrote: Equal in intellectual capacity. Equal in physical capacity. Equal in beauty. Equal in ethical choices. Equal in opportunity. Equal in endurance. Equal in effort. It was that kind of idea I was addressing, not the intrinsic worth of one human life over another human life.


People, by their very nature, vary and cannot be equal in every measure.

For a society to be an equal society it must give equal opportunity to all it's citizens and not value one trait excessively over another.

I agree that the LCD society is a failure and political correctness gone wrong - we need those with strength and manual dexterity just as much as we need those with intellectual dexterity, we need the artistic as well as the logicians, we need the technicians as well as the managers and to value one out of all proportion to the other is wrong.
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Post by AussiePam »

Bryn Mawr;1245429 wrote: People, by their very nature, vary and cannot be equal in every measure.

For a society to be an equal society it must give equal opportunity to all it's citizens and not value one trait excessively over another.

I agree that the LCD society is a failure and political correctness gone wrong - we need those with strength and manual dexterity just as much as we need those with intellectual dexterity, we need the artistic as well as the logicians, we need the technicians as well as the managers and to value one out of all proportion to the other is wrong.


I absolutely agree, Bryn.

We started a discussion here a while back on kibbutzim a generation later. It was not the diversity that killed a great idea, but rather the human need to feel properly compensated for effort spent, in whatever field. To be naturally competitive and rewarded for that. An Emergency doctor, a teacher, and a ticket collector all perform valuable tasks (and are equal in the sight of God and possibly before the law of the land), but their jobs don't all require the same up front hard work, commitment, dedication ...whatever, and are hardly subject to the same stress levels. If your reward (both monetary and other) was exactly similar - why would you bother taking on a tougher job with responsibility? Or if you were forced by the State into one job over another, why would you not be tempted to just slack off and not care..???
"Life is too short to ski with ugly men"

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TenneseeGirl
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Post by TenneseeGirl »

AussiePam;1245423 wrote: Equal in intellectual capacity. Equal in physical capacity. Equal in beauty. Equal in ethical choices. Equal in opportunity. Equal in endurance. Equal in effort. It was that kind of idea I was addressing, not the intrinsic worth of one human life over another human life.


I absolutely agree with the fact that there are things people can not be equal in. The issue that I think arises is when is it OK to point out the differences. We are on this equality quest, yet in many aspects we are not and can not be equal.

Here in the states it has almost become criminal to point out natural differences in people. Even when it comes to the basic characteristics where people just can not all be equal.

I seem to have forgotten where I was going with my post...

Well anyway I think that if someone is truly better then we should be able to acknowledge that. If someone is dumb. Lets face it there are plenty of dumb people out there. We should be able to discuss it also without the equality police coming over and telling us we cant talk about it....

Not as strong an ending to my point... but :D
~~~~~

Just some food for thought. Swallow it or not that's up to you.:lips:
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Post by AussiePam »

Yes, I think we were on a similar track earlier on, and it kind of went amorphous.. grin.. I agree with you totally on political correctness.

Never mind - I'm reading on. My son, who is a big fan of utopias that aren't, and working on a film script on one right now, queried the dates when some of the books we were talking about were written and we ended up digging out a lot of info. Got happily sidetracked on your soma holiday. Mik queried when mescalin came into the picture... and it does in fact get one mention in Brave New World. Here's an interesting webpage.

Soma in Aldous Huxley's Brave New World (1932)
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TenneseeGirl
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Post by TenneseeGirl »

Great page! I don't think I realized just how often soma was mentioned in the book untill reading allll those quotes. What an effective population control technique though. Kind of makes me wonder about the war on drugs... just kidding! maybe:sneaky:
~~~~~

Just some food for thought. Swallow it or not that's up to you.:lips:
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Post by AussiePam »

TenneseeGirl;1245555 wrote: Great page! I don't think I realized just how often soma was mentioned in the book untill reading allll those quotes. What an effective population control technique though. Kind of makes me wonder about the war on drugs... just kidding! maybe:sneaky:


How many Americans are on Prozac?



I understand that women, straining at the bit and going mad with enforced domesticity, were at one stage "helped" by their kindly local doctors with generous doses of valium and mogadon.



---

Your signature... Soma - Swallow it or not that's up to the State.
"Life is too short to ski with ugly men"

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TenneseeGirl
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Post by TenneseeGirl »

AussiePam;1245556 wrote: How many Americans are on Prozac?



I understand that women, straining at the bit and going mad with enforced domesticity, were at one stage "helped" by their kindly local doctors with generous doses of valium and mogadon.



---

Your signature... Soma - Swallow it or not that's up to the State.


Brilliant. I always forget about the awesome properties of antipsychotics and psychotropic drugs...:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl

Wonder when it will be manditory.
~~~~~

Just some food for thought. Swallow it or not that's up to you.:lips:

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