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tude dog
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Post by tude dog »

Can't say I ever been a fan of minimum wage laws. It only makes sense that nobody wants to pay for service which is not of value to them. Well throw logic out the window and force the payment for a service of worthless value.

A worker a Mc D's does offer some value to his labor, but only so much.

Welcome to the real world.

Minimum Wage Backfire

If there’s a silver lining for McDonald’s in Tuesday’s dreadful earnings report, it is that perhaps union activists will begin to understand that the fast-food chain cannot solve the problems of the Obama economy. The world’s largest restaurant company reported a 30% decline in quarterly profits on a 5% drop in revenues. Problems under the golden arches were global—sales were weak in China, Europe and the United States.

So even one of the world’s most ubiquitous consumer brands cannot print money at its pleasure. This may be news to liberal pressure groups that have lately been demanding that government order the chain known for cheap food to somehow pay higher wages.

Unions have made McDonald’s a particular target of their campaign for a $15 an hour minimum wage and have even protested at corporate headquarters in Oak Brook, Ill. The pressure was enough to cause CEO Don Thompson this summer to capitulate and endorse President Obama’s call to raise the federal minimum to $10.10 an hour from $7.25. Many states have already enacted wage floors above the federal minimum.

If higher wages force higher prices on the menu, will union-backed activist groups agree to compensate McDonald’s franchisees for futures sales declines? We’re guessing not. So we’ll offer the chain some free consulting and suggest that with sales slipping lately, higher prices probably aren’t the way to draw more customers. Alternatively, McDonald’s could cut its beef costs by changing its popular burger to a fifth-of-a-pounder and hope nobody notices.

The McDonald’s earnings report on Tuesday gave a hint at how the fast-food chain really plans to respond to its wage and profit pressure—automate. As many contributors to these pages have warned, forcing businesses to pay people out of proportion to the profits they generate will provide those businesses with a greater incentive to replace employees with machines.




Assistant Editorial Page Editor James Freeman on McDonald’s profit plunge and whether “fundamental changes” can make the company competitive again. Photo: Getty Images

By the third quarter of next year, McDonald’s plans to introduce new technology in some markets “to make it easier for customers to order and pay for food digitally and to give people the ability to customize their orders,” reports the Journal. Mr. Thompson, the CEO, said Tuesday that customers “want to personalize their meals” and “to enjoy eating in a contemporary, inviting atmosphere. And they want choices in how they order, choices in what they order and how they’re served.”


WSJ

Not just McD' but many retail outlets now want customers to check out their purchases. It PO's me haveing to do what I expect the retailer to do for me, ring up the products and give me the bill.
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Post by Bruv »

No comment is warranted.................

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Macadees CEO salary
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Post by Snowfire »

Bruv;1496099 wrote: No comment is warranted.................

Macadees worth 2015

Macadees CEO salary


So what Tude is saying is that McDonalds employees are not deserving of a tiny little share of them big billions. Only Mr Big Bollocks at the top. Seems legit !
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Post by tude dog »

Bruv;1496099 wrote: No comment is warranted.................

Macadees worth 2015

Macadees CEO salary


But you did anyway.
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Snowfire;1496100 wrote: So what Tude is saying is that McDonalds employees are not deserving of a tiny little share of them big billions. Only Mr Big Bollocks at the top. Seems legit !


That is a funny way of looking at it. I'll tell you what they deserve, like anybody esle is a fair return for the value of their labor.
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Post by Snowfire »

Well a company is only as successful as its employees, not just of it's management. They are it's biggest asset and deserve a cut of the profits, surely.
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Post by Bruv »

tude dog;1496101 wrote: But you did anyway.


I did not comment, I gave you the financial situation of the company so that you could be better informed.
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Post by tude dog »

Snowfire;1496103 wrote: Well a company is only as successful as its employees, not just of it's management. They are it's biggest asset and deserve a cut of the profits, surely.


Why?

By what birthright does that happen where investors are cut out of the profits?

Employees can come and go without regard to the health of the corporation.

Really, though it is easy to crucify Mc's. How about our local restaurant where we go every Sunday for breakfast?

Not exactly a billion dollar business.

Not only will he have to pay his waitstaff the big bucks all his suppliers will have to do the same for their prices.

Prices will go up and regular folk will not patronize.

that goes for every business in every industry.

All things considered, the whole concept of 15 bucks an hour is stupid. May as well make it 50 bucks an hour.
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Post by Snowfire »

tude dog;1496106 wrote: Why?

By what birthright does that happen where investors are cut out of the profits?



Employees can come and go without regard to the health of the corporation.

Really, though it is easy to crucify Mc's. How about our local restaurant where we go every Sunday for breakfast?

Not exactly a billion dollar business.

Not only will he have to pay his waitstaff the big bucks all his suppliers will have to do the same for their prices.

Prices will go up and regular folk will not patronize.

that goes for every business in every industry.

All things considered, the whole concept of 15 bucks an hour is stupid. May as well make it 50 bucks an hour.


Who said anything about cutting out the investors ?

Without employees, you have no business to invest in. THEY are what make the business successful. They are assets....not tools
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Post by G#Gill »

It will never change - the ever upward spiral of costs and wages, each chasing the other - for ever increasing, never decreasing ! The shareholders need their bonuses, so prices increase to allow for that, then the workers complain that their wages need increasing to allow for increases in the prices in the shops, then the employers need to increase the price of their goods so their shareholders get a fair return on their investment, so the employees ask for more wages because the goods in the shops have increased in price. So it goes on and on and.....
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Post by FourPart »

So far we still have an Open Border policy. As a result we are getting Eastern European migrants who are used to something in the region of 40p / hour moving over here because of the massive riches afforded over here. Many of them would be willing to work for a fraction of the Minimum Wage, as that would still be many times what they could earn at home. So, without there being the legislation of a Minimum Wage, if they could get migrants to work for only £1 hour, do you really think a corporation, such as McDonalds would decide to pay a respectable wage? Of course not. As with anything, it's a matter of Supply & Demand. There's a massive supply of people coming here who are willing to take a pittance. What chance is there for anyone to expect a decent wage?
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Post by LarsMac »

The automated stuff in the fast food joints has been in the works for a long time. Companies have been busy designing and testing prototypes since the 90s.

The raise in Minimum wage is basically irrelevant to the implementation, other than the timing being perfect for the execs to blame the minimum raise increases for the chance to dump workers.

I predict some difficult times ahead for the franchisees who are chosen by MacD's and Wendy's, and other big corps to be the test sites for this stuff.
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Post by tude dog »

Bruv;1496104 wrote: I did not comment, I gave you the financial situation of the company so that you could be better informed.


Thank you very much. But really. That was of zero help, and irrelevant.

In other words useless.
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Post by tude dog »

Snowfire;1496107 wrote: Who said anything about cutting out the investors ?

Without employees, you have no business to invest in. THEY are what make the business successful. They are assets....not tools


Fine. They are paid and if it isn't enough they can leave for better opportunities like the rest of us do when not satisfied with their job.
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FourPart;1496109 wrote: So far we still have an Open Border policy. As a result we are getting Eastern European migrants who are used to something in the region of 40p / hour moving over here because of the massive riches afforded over here. Many of them would be willing to work for a fraction of the Minimum Wage, as that would still be many times what they could earn at home. So, without there being the legislation of a Minimum Wage, if they could get migrants to work for only £1 hour, do you really think a corporation, such as McDonalds would decide to pay a respectable wage? Of course not. As with anything, it's a matter of Supply & Demand. There's a massive supply of people coming here who are willing to take a pittance. What chance is there for anyone to expect a decent wage?


Get a marketable skill.
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Post by tude dog »

LarsMac;1496110 wrote: The automated stuff in the fast food joints has been in the works for a long time. Companies have been busy designing and testing prototypes since the 90s.


Not a shock there.



LarsMac;1496110 wrote: The raise in Minimum wage is basically irrelevant to the implementation, other than the timing being perfect for the execs to blame the minimum raise increases for the chance to dump workers.


We have been talking about huge corporate fast food outlets. The pay hikes will affect all business which pays less than the 15 dollars. You name it, it will be affected.

Every business which pays less than the 15 dollars.

LarsMac;1496110 wrote: I predict some difficult times ahead for the franchisees who are chosen by MacD's and Wendy's, and other big corps to be the test sites for this stuff.


I predict massive disruption for all businesses. Even for those which survive must charge higher prices a burden for the lowest income workers, all who earn 15 dollars an hour. It won't matter as everybody will pay more.

Inflation ring a bell?

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Post by LarsMac »

tude dog;1496121 wrote: Not a shock there.





We have been talking about huge corporate fast food outlets. The pay hikes will affect all business which pays less than the 15 dollars. You name it, it will be affected.

Every business which pays less than the 15 dollars.



I predict massive disruption for all businesses. Even for those which survive must charge higher prices a burden for the lowest income workers, all who earn 15 dollars an hour. It won't matter as everybody will pay more.

Inflation ring a bell?

Welcome to the new America, a nation equal in poverty for all.


You bought the corporate BS, hook line and Sinker.

I am always amazed at how the lower wage earners are always so easily convinced to buy into all the corporate tales that screwing the little people is really good for the little people, while the corporate raiders walk away with all the cookies.

Most of the outlets for these fast food giants are franchisees, who put up most of the investment money and pay the wages. They will have to invest in the new machinery and and decide how to best pay for them. Only the high traffic stores will even consider these machines and the investment they will take. They will have to decide how to pay for them, and which employees they can deem expendable. It won't be the 15 buck an hour full timers that get cut. It will be the part timers who are on the fringes of the payroll.

I suspect that there will be parallel production lines to let them see how it all really works. This could be interesting.

Remember the tale of John Henry?

Anyway, it will be a few years before any real reduction in workforce due to such machinery is noticed.

Hopefully, by then, some real jobs open up for the low wage earners.

One thing that seems so easy to figure, but always seem to escape people is, the more money the po folks receive in wages, the more money they will spend. That puts more money back into the overall economy.

Worth thinking about.
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Post by gmc »

One thing that seems so easy to figure, but always seem to escape people is, the more money the po folks receive in wages, the more money they will spend. That puts more money back into the overall economy.

Worth thinking about.


That's actually the fundamental basis of capitalism, better wages means more disposable income generatimg more demand creating more jobs bringing better wages meaning more disposable income generatimng miore demand.

Look at the US economy in the seventies eighties and today after companies have moved jobs elsewhere to get a lower cost base forgetting there is no one in well enough paid employment to buy the stuff they now make cheaper than ever bofore. They destroyed their own customer base - it says a lot if macdonalds are losing business becaused no one can afford to eat there.

When things are done to people - when they are told they are expendable, or feel excluded from decision-making – it doesn’t simply cut their income. It corrodes their soul and diminishes their sense of self. If you want to believe big corporations are entitked to exploit people to the maximum they can that's your look out maybe most people think they are equally entitled to fight their corner.

When did it become OK for business to screw their employees but somehow morally wrong for said employees to object?

Fine. They are paid and if it isn't enough they can leave for better opportunities like the rest of us do when not satisfied with their job.


you should be in favour oif higher wages it means more people able to afford your product so long as it's a level playing field everybody benefits. If low wages are so great letls see CEO's take a wage cut and feel the motivation.
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Post by FourPart »

tude dog;1496120 wrote: Get a marketable skill.


Like Nursing, for instance? Where nurses can't afford to train as nurses over here any more most are being imported from Eastern Europe. At the moment the pay rates are being determined by official NHS guidelines. However, the NHS has no say on what Private companies pay their staff. When more & more of the NHS staff are being provided by Private Agencies (although they do tend to pay more at the moment), and more & more of the NHS is constantly being privatised, it won't be long before the NHS no longer exists, but wil simply be a network of franchises - just as McDonalds is. At which point, all the different franchises will simply take on staff at the lowest possible rate. It's one thing to go to the trouble of getting a marketable skill. It's quite another to find someone who will pay what that skill is worth when there are so many others who also possess that marketable skill who are willing to market their skill for a fraction of its value simply because of the massive difference in currency values.
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Post by Bruv »

Tude's great American dream is personified by the company Walmart.

They have sourced their products from the cheapest supplier (China) decimating American competing suppliers, costing lots of American jobs.

All those displaced American supplier employees are now working for Walmart (Use some imagination here Tude) on very very low wages. So low that Walmart asks it's own employees to subsidise their fellow employees wages, so they might enjoy Thanks Giving day, a celebration of everything America holds dear.

Meanwhile Jimbob Walton thanks his lucky stars daily for the happenstance of being born a Walton as his fortune grows daily.....by $1.5 million every hour ?

Meanwhile those low paid proud Walmart workers are being housed and get healthcare subsidised by Taxes, which Walmart incidentally is renowned for avoiding.



I work for the long arm of Walmart in the UK, employed by a company that maintains it's smooth running.

Since I started working for them, cashier jobs have gone to automatic checkouts, cleaners hours have been slashed, meaning nobody can support themselves unless it is subsidised by Government benefits.Most workers are on unsocial short shifts to fulfill the shops requirements, short hours mean less paid breaks, so a work force that is easier to control, wages topped up by benefits.

As gmc so graphically describes it is commercial insanity, which goes a long way to show why the low end stack em high, sell em cheap stores have taken over.......we are all dooooomed if it doesn't change......it is a downward spiral and it's getting faster.
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Snowfire;1496100 wrote: So what Tude is saying is that McDonalds employees are not deserving of a tiny little share of them big billions. Only Mr Big Bollocks at the top. Seems legit !


The sad fact of the matter is that wages have stagnated for decades while the cost of living has spiraled. What workers now make amounts to a salary cut in terms of buying power compared to the minimum wage of the 1970s. What's worse, the segment of the population that has to work for minimum wage has increased thanks to banks and corporate practices.

It is currently impossible to live above the poverty level on minimum wage. So when you say that it's "legit" you are dooming millions to slow starvation, lack of adequate health care, and homelessness. That ain't legit. As a matter of fact you might as well be telling them...

"Let them eat cake!"

And we all know where that ended up.
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I'll say one more thing. If you have never tried to survive on your own or with a spouse on minimum wage in America today, you haven't got a clue as to what you are talking about and you should definitely not have an opinion.

Go ahead, try living on minimum wage for just a year. I'd bet no one on this board has the guts to make it.
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Post by Snowfire »

Saint_;1496144 wrote: The sad fact of the matter is that wages have stagnated for decades while the cost of living has spiraled. What workers now make amounts to a salary cut in terms of buying power compared to the minimum wage of the 1970s. What's worse, the segment of the population that has to work for minimum wage has increased thanks to banks and corporate practices.

It is currently impossible to live above the poverty level on minimum wage. So when you say that it's "legit" you are dooming millions to slow starvation, lack of adequate health care, and homelessness. That ain't legit. As a matter of fact you might as well be telling them...

"Let them eat cake!"

And we all know where that ended up.


I was being facetious. You do know that don't you.
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Post by Saint_ »

Snowfire;1496148 wrote: I was being facetious. You do know that don't you.


Nope. Misread that intent. But there was plenty of that kind of intent in this thread. My apologies to you.
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LarsMac;1496122 wrote: You bought the corporate BS, hook line and Sinker.

I am always amazed at how the lower wage earners are always so easily convinced to buy into all the corporate tales that screwing the little people is really good for the little people, while the corporate raiders walk away with all the cookies.

Most of the outlets for these fast food giants are franchisees, who put up most of the investment money and pay the wages.


Excuse me. I didn't write an essay on the whole subject of McDs corporate structure. I didn't get into how the franchises will suffer. I chose to get off the corporate thing and bring it to a level we all can see first hand.

I guess you missed the part where ALL businesses are affected. We will all pay the price.

Every Sunday the Mrs and I go to a local restaurant for breakfast (our day out on the town). Should this minimum wage nonsense goes through and the server is getting 15 bucks an hour, how much is breakfast now going to cost us?

The owner will not only have to consider his server but the dishwasher. Every service he needs to maintain his business. Not to mention the increase in cost for food and other supplies to maintain the business.

Up and down the food chain (so to speak).

Where does all the money come from?

Workers with real jobs, producing real products.

In all due respect to our waitress's at the restaurant, they tend to be kids earning money for themselves, not the head of households.

In this neck of the woods, 15 bucks an hour is good money for and adult. In Los Angeles where I came from it ain't so good.

Though I respect every worker no matter the job, but for somebody whose life ambition is to be a cashier at McD's, it tends to fall.
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tude dog;1496177 wrote:

In all due respect to our waitress's at the restaurant, they tend to be kids earning money for themselves, not the head of households.


You're thinking of the 1970s. It's 2016 now, post Great Recession. Last time I went to McDonald's the guy sweeping the lot and lobby was 70 and in a back brace and everyone behind the counter was at least 30.
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tude dog;1496177 wrote: somebody whose life ambition is to be a cashier at McD's, it tends to fall.


And that's pretty much no one. Most are trapped in that job because they can't get a better one. Worse yet, they have too much pride to go on welfare...which you would also fault them for!
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Saint_;1496182 wrote: And that's pretty much no one. Most are trapped in that job because they can't get a better one. Worse yet, they have too much pride to go on welfare...which you would also fault them for!


So the answer is income redistribution?

Take from those who actually produce a usable product so another can stand behind a register to who cry all the time while collecting money?
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tude dog;1496183 wrote: So the answer is income redistribution?


No, the answer is to close corporate loopholes that allow them to send real paying jobs overseas and quit rewarding banks for risk-taking behavior.

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Saint_;1496184 wrote: No, the answer is to close corporate loopholes that allow them to send real paying jobs overseas and quit rewarding banks for risk-taking behavior.

How to Save Capitalism


Oh, I see. We are all victims of the huge corporations.

I dunno.

No need to be ambitious as long as Big Brother can make sure you have a living wage, whatever that is.

Of course, only if you still have a job.
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Post by Bruv »

tude dog;1496190 wrote: Oh, I see. We are all victims of the huge corporations.
To a certain extent yes....



I dunno.

No need to be ambitious as long as Big Brother can make sure you have a living wage, whatever that is.

Of course, only if you still have a job.


How did you get from the first to the second statement ?
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Bruv;1496192 wrote: To a certain extent yes....



How did you get from the first to the second statement ?


Uh, maybe a minimum lifestyle will seem like a bonanza just for so long.
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Post by LarsMac »

tude dog;1496177 wrote: Excuse me. I didn't write an essay on the whole subject of McDs corporate structure. I didn't get into how the franchises will suffer. I chose to get off the corporate thing and bring it to a level we all can see first hand.

I guess you missed the part where ALL businesses are affected. We will all pay the price.

Every Sunday the Mrs and I go to a local restaurant for breakfast (our day out on the town). Should this minimum wage nonsense goes through and the server is getting 15 bucks an hour, how much is breakfast now going to cost us?

The owner will not only have to consider his server but the dishwasher. Every service he needs to maintain his business. Not to mention the increase in cost for food and other supplies to maintain the business.

Up and down the food chain (so to speak).

Where does all the money come from?

Workers with real jobs, producing real products.

In all due respect to our waitress's at the restaurant, they tend to be kids earning money for themselves, not the head of households.

In this neck of the woods, 15 bucks an hour is good money for and adult. In Los Angeles where I came from it ain't so good.

Though I respect every worker no matter the job, but for somebody whose life ambition is to be a cashier at McD's, it tends to fall.


Firstly, servers in restaurants don't usually get minimum wage. They rely on tips for most of their income. In most states, the owners are allowed to tally their tips, and only actually pay them enough to bring their wages up to minimum wages standard, before taxes are withheld. Most server generally make enough money on tips to make decent earnings.

Raising the minimum wage is not going to fix the economy. It's not going to break it (any more than it already is) either.

And it is going to be no more devastating than the last several times it has been raised.

Minimum wage is not, never has been, and never will be expected to be a career wage. I doubt there is anyone in the country who believes otherwise. Minimum wages is a starting point for people trying to get into the working world, or start a new job, until they prove themselves worth more.
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Post by FourPart »

Recently the wage of our carers was raised to a level above minimum wage, following the introduction of the new level. However, the wages of us on the Emergency Out of Hours Helpline was not, as it was already above the new minimum level. The stupid thing is, though, that now it's a case that we, who advise the carers on things, are getting paid less than the carers. It's also the case that when I have to go out to do Emergency Care, when no-one else can be found to cover (as I had to do tonight - not getting home until 00:45), we actually get paid less than the carers do because we get paid OoH rate, not Carer rate. This demonstrates that unless all pay is increase proportionately that, in effect, we are getting a pay cut.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all in favour of the Minimum Wage as it limits the amount that employers can exploit their staff, but it demonstrates that employers will still exploit whoever they can for as much as they can get away with. That's why I'm still desperately seeking a better position.
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Post by Bruv »

I expect some clever people will come up with figures to prove or disprove the following speculative statement......the difference in earnings between management and the lowliest positions in the company have grown greater over the past 50 years.
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Post by AnneBoleyn »

Save your breath. The figures are already in. Go Google.
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YZGI
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Post by YZGI »

You also need to remember that everyone making $15.00 and above will require raises. You can't pay entry level wages to someone who has worked for years at a company. Some people are worth more than others. As a business owner, I will have to dramatically raise prices to make up for the raises all of my workers would require. And no I have no "minimum wage" earners. My lowest paid is around $10.00 for entry level.
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Post by FourPart »

YZGI;1496248 wrote: You also need to remember that everyone making $15.00 and above will require raises. You can't pay entry level wages to someone who has worked for years at a company. Some people are worth more than others. As a business owner, I will have to dramatically raise prices to make up for the raises all of my workers would require. And no I have no "minimum wage" earners. My lowest paid is around $10.00 for entry level.
That is exactly what has happened with my job, which was above Minimum Wage (let's call it Band 2) when I started. With the implementation of the Minimum Wage, the Carers' wages (let's call it Band 1) has risen to above Minimum Wage, but mine has remained the same - meaning that they are now on a higher rate than I am, yet I am the one who has to advise & co-ordinate them and, if necessary, go out & do their job. Don't get me wrong - it's crappy job, and they deserve everything they get - and more, but is it right that someone who starts of being paid more than them, who is on Band 2 should be getting less than Band 1.
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Post by Wandrin »

When one of the big US burger chains went through the process of evaluating an ordering system, they made it as far as getting quotes and ordering a prototype. The big issue that tabled the project was the need for trained technical support staff for the occasional problem. On paper, it was less expensive just to use people rather than electronic devices.
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Post by Bruv »

Wandrin;1496299 wrote: When one of the big US burger chains went through the process of evaluating an ordering system, they made it as far as getting quotes and ordering a prototype. The big issue that tabled the project was the need for trained technical support staff for the occasional problem. On paper, it was less expensive just to use people rather than electronic devices.


Until such time the technology improves enough to be less troublesome, and that is never long after the need for it is found.
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Post by LarsMac »

Here in Colorado, the law for minimum wage specifies, employee must be considered full time, and work at least 32 hours per week.

A lot of employers (particularly these burger and Pizza joint franchisees get around minimum wage by only working the people for 20-25 hours a week. Even the big guys like Walmart use that rule.

My grandson worked for a Wendy's franchisee for some time. for the first year, he averaged 24 hours a week. After they decided he was a keeper, they gradually upped his hours to near full time. and eventually gave him a raise. and made him full time.

A more significant rule that was just enacted will be far more beneficial to low end workers.

Many outfits will bump productive workers into a salaried position, and then work them 50, 60, even 80 hours a week. The new ruling will limit how those salaried positions can be defined, and even the number of hours those employees can be asked to work.

I know that I sometimes work 70 hours in a week, and my effective pay during those times breaks down to somewhere near the new minimum wage offering.

But then there are other weeks where my actual work may be 15 to 20 hours. It averages out pretty well for me, most of the time.

I once took a job with a restaurant in Upstate New York where they started me out at minimum wage (at the time something like $3.30/hour. They said that if they liked my work, they would hire me on full time and pay a salary.

A couple of weeks on, they told me that they wanted to keep me, and offered me a full-time position, paying me $160/week. The job was 6 days a week, 10 hours a day. I did the math and realized I would be better off at a part time minimum wage job. Alas, there were few jobs in the area, so I agreed to take the job. Fortunately, that afternoon I got a call from a Hotel in Atlanta that wanted to hire me as Assistant Chef for 350/week. Goodbye New York.



All I am really saying is that employers always find a way to soften that cost of paying minimum wage.

For them, the sky is really never falling.
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Post by Saint_ »

LarsMac;1496312 wrote:

All I am really saying is that employers always find a way to soften that cost of paying minimum wage.

For them, the sky is really never falling.


Bloody well right!

I'll add that when I went to work in 1975, I worked at McDonald's for $1.60 and hour. With that wage and 40 hours per week I managed to:

Buy a used 1969 Camaro

Paint it with Imron paint

Put in custom tuck-and-rolled crushed velvet seats

Put in a Pioneer and Kenwood stereo system

Buy custom rims, tires, and spoilers

Fill the tank constantly and cruise all night long on the weekends

and keep $300 in my pocket all through high school.



The buying power of that time compared to this time isn't even in the ballpark.

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Post by FourPart »

When I started my first job, after leaving school in 1976, I worked for 49 hours a week, for £12. Not per HOUR - per WEEK. That's less than 24½p / hour. Out of that I gave my Mother £3 for my keep (I wanted to give more, but that's all she'd take).
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Post by Bruv »

FourPart;1496317 wrote: When I started my first job, after leaving school in 1976, I worked for 49 hours a week, for £12. Not per HOUR - per WEEK. That's less than 24½p / hour. Out of that I gave my Mother £3 for my keep (I wanted to give more, but that's all she'd take).


Luxury......eyup lad..... when I first started work at 15 in 1963 for 40 hours I earned £5-10 s paid my mum some (forget how much) and bought my own season ticket to commute into London, and then somebody told us "You've never had it so good"
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Post by gmc »

You soft southern gentlemen 1976 I was at thge start of a two year period of unemployment watching with horror thatcher's rise to power and the destruction of the uk as in andustrial nation and then the selling off of all our assets to the highest bidder and you stupid gentlemen still vote for her spawn. If you could london and the south east - well I wish you would.
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Post by Bruv »

In the brilliant summer of 76 I was working at the now closed British Railway railway works that had been the only industry in the railway town of Ashford Kent, for many years.

There was no work, the place was winding down,but the Labour government were still taking on labourers to make the unemployment figures look good.As a young family man I wanted to work but without overtime or a wage rate better than a labourer's I was no better off than staying at home, having to pretend to be working was never my style, so resigned, and found an honest employer.

I have never ever voted for the Tories.......that really hurts.
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Post by gmc »

Bruv;1496346 wrote: In the brilliant summer of 76 I was working at the now closed British Railway railway works that had been the only industry in the railway town of Ashford Kent, for many years.

There was no work, the place was winding down,but the Labour government were still taking on labourers to make the unemployment figures look good.As a young family man I wanted to work but without overtime or a wage rate better than a labourer's I was no better off than staying at home, having to pretend to be working was never my style, so resigned, and found an honest employer.

I have never ever voted for the Tories.......that really hurts.


I apologise for insinuating you might be a tory voter. No offence was intended.
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Post by Bruv »

gmc;1496353 wrote: I apologise for insinuating you might be a tory voter. No offence was intended.


Apology accepted.



I am a soft southern gentleman though.
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Post by LarsMac »

LarsMac;1496312 wrote: Here in Colorado, the law for minimum wage specifies, employee must be considered full time, and work at least 32 hours per week.

A lot of employers (particularly these burger and Pizza joint franchisees get around minimum wage by only working the people for 20-25 hours a week. Even the big guys like Walmart use that rule.

My grandson worked for a Wendy's franchisee for some time. for the first year, he averaged 24 hours a week. After they decided he was a keeper, they gradually upped his hours to near full time. and eventually gave him a raise. and made him full time.

A more significant rule that was just enacted will be far more beneficial to low end workers.

Many outfits will bump productive workers into a salaried position, and then work them 50, 60, even 80 hours a week. The new ruling will limit how those salaried positions can be defined, and even the number of hours those employees can be asked to work.

I know that I sometimes work 70 hours in a week, and my effective pay during those times breaks down to somewhere near the new minimum wage offering.

But then there are other weeks where my actual work may be 15 to 20 hours. It averages out pretty well for me, most of the time.

I once took a job with a restaurant in Upstate New York where they started me out at minimum wage (at the time something like $3.30/hour. They said that if they liked my work, they would hire me on full time and pay a salary.

A couple of weeks on, they told me that they wanted to keep me, and offered me a full-time position, paying me $160/week. The job was 6 days a week, 10 hours a day. I did the math and realized I would be better off at a part time minimum wage job. Alas, there were few jobs in the area, so I agreed to take the job. Fortunately, that afternoon I got a call from a Hotel in Atlanta that wanted to hire me as Assistant Chef for 350/week. Goodbye New York.



All I am really saying is that employers always find a way to soften that cost of paying minimum wage.

For them, the sky is really never falling.


A good write-up on the new "Salaried position" rules:

Will the New Overtime Rules Really Hurt Workers? - The New Yorker
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Post by Bruv »

Found that heavy reading, partly because I find it beyond belief that a worker starts employment without an agreed hourly rate for an agreed amount of hours per week.

The wage rate for an agreed amount of hours before overtime pay kicks in should be set out at the job interview surely ?

What are the US workers Unions doing ?
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