Should the Peoria Diocese Catholic churches forfeit their tax-exempt status?

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Accountable
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Should the Peoria Diocese Catholic churches forfeit their tax-exempt status?

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I heard about this on the radio news so went online to verify. This Bishop sent this letter to all of his priests:

MOST REV. DANIEL R. JENKY, C.S.C.

OFFICE OF THE BISHOP

DIOCESE OF PEORIA

OFFICE OF THE BISHOP

419 N.E. MADISON AVENUE

PEORIA, ILLINOIS 61603

PHONE: 309-671-1550

FAX: 309-671-1576

Election AD 2012

By virtue of your vow of obedience to me as your Bishop, I require that this letter be personally read by each celebrating priest at each Weekend Mass, November 3/4.

Dear Catholic Believers,

Since the foundation of the American Republic and the adoption of the Bill of Rights, I do not think there has ever been a time more threatening to our religious liberty than the present. Neither the president of the United States nor the current majority of the Federal Senate have been willing to even consider the Catholic community's grave objections to those HHS mandates that would require all Catholic institutions, exempting only our church buildings, to fund abortion, sterilization, and artificial contraception. This assault upon our religious freedom is simply without precedent in the American political and legal system. Contrary to the guarantees embedded in the First Amendment, the HHS mandates attempt to now narrowly define and thereby drastically limit our traditional religious works. They grossly and intentionally intrude upon the deeply held moral convictions that have always guided our Catholic schools, hospitals, and other apostolic ministries.

Nearly two thousand years ago, after our Savior had been bound, beaten, scourged, mocked, and crowned with thorns, a pagan Roman Procurator displayed Jesus to a hostile crowd by sarcastically declaring: Behold your King. The mob roared back: We have no king but Caesar. Today, Catholic politicians, bureaucrats, and their electoral supporters who callously enable the destruction of innocent human life in the womb also thereby reject Jesus as their Lord. They are objectively guilty of grave sin.

For those who hope for salvation, no political loyalty can ever take precedence over loyalty to the Lord Jesus Christ and to his Gospel of Life. God is not mocked, and as the Bible clearly teaches, after this passing instant of life on earth, God's great mercy in time will give way to God's perfect judgment in eternity.

I therefore call upon every practicing Catholic in this Diocese to vote. Be faithful to Christ and to your Catholic Faith. May God guide and protect his Holy Church, and may God bless America.

Sincerely yours in Christ,

+Most Reverend Daniel R. Jenky, C.S.C.

BISHOP OF PEORIA
Peoria bishop orders Catholics to the polls | National Catholic Reporter

The separation of church and state is not law; it is tradition. Nevertheless, this letter certainly seems to go even further than the CEO's letter that caused such a fuss a few weeks ago.

Should the Peoria Diocese Catholic churches forfeit their tax-exempt status because of this letter?
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Unions are allowed to 'get out the vote'. I'm not sure why catholics shouldn't be able to.:thinking:
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Should the Peoria Diocese Catholic churches forfeit their tax-exempt status?

Post by LarsMac »

Do unions have tax exempt status?
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Should the Peoria Diocese Catholic churches forfeit their tax-exempt status?

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LarsMac;1409607 wrote: Do unions have tax exempt status?


Yep
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Should the Peoria Diocese Catholic churches forfeit their tax-exempt status?

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Accountable;1409602 wrote: I heard about this on the radio news so went online to verify. This Bishop sent this letter to all of his priests:

Peoria bishop orders Catholics to the polls | National Catholic Reporter

The separation of church and state is not law; it is tradition. Nevertheless, this letter certainly seems to go even further than the CEO's letter that caused such a fuss a few weeks ago.

Should the Peoria Diocese Catholic churches forfeit their tax-exempt status because of this letter?Civic unity requires a moral obligation that all citizens collectively uphold the integrity of our social institutions. Once this is realized it is not one's concern of where their tax dollars go in fulfilling this obligation. One has the inherent right to make their case for a cultural change but not one to exclude themselves from the unity of the nation at the expense of preserving their subjective ideologies.

This is proof of the isolation as a result of subjectivism because they've associated their problems in terms of monetary value without regarding consensus as the only means to reconcile their differences. All they do is claim that it's wrong, through biblical versus, and expect this is justification to remain isolated so they can hoard more of their cash.

E.M Adams said it best when he said Communitarians try to shore up the social foundations of morality by emphasizing family, community, and common interests, without an effort to examine the intellectual foundations of morality


I think what we have to worry about more than anything is this religious right movement that is rearing its ugly face as a threat to everyone's freedom, but alas most everyone will remain victims of their culture and assume "this person must be moral because he/she is religious", which is what we get when we can't look passed our materialistic values to grow with higher values presupposed by the very meaning we all seek in our lives.
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Should the Peoria Diocese Catholic churches forfeit their tax-exempt status?

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flopstock;1409604 wrote: Unions are allowed to 'get out the vote'. I'm not sure why catholics shouldn't be able to.:thinking:


Unions can ask their members to vote in a certain way but each member has a choice in the matter. Come to that employers can tell their employees to vote in a certain way and bribe politicians but employees have a free choice when it comes right down to it.

The catholic church commands it's followers on pain of eternal damnation if they don't do as they are told. That's a heck of a big difference, unions members have a free choice catholics don't. Reality is I suspect most Catholics vote as they please but in principle that is why priests of any faith should not be interfering in politics. How would you react if muslim mullahs in the states started telling their members how to vote? It's exactly the same kind of thing.
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Should the Peoria Diocese Catholic churches forfeit their tax-exempt status?

Post by Ahso! »

The way I understand this is that Unions are non-profits while religious institutions have an agreement with government not to meddle in the affairs of one another due to the separation of church and state. Also, churches are listed as charities, I believe.

In this argument, the church claims that the federal government overstepped its bounds my mandating contraception be part of any health insurance it offers its employees.

Of course, this is just election year political BS because no such demands have been made. In fact, as I understand it, there was an exception made for religious institutions not to offer it. The employee may add the provision to their policy individually by contacting the insurer.

My personal opinion is that no religion should enjoy tax-exempt status.
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Should the Peoria Diocese Catholic churches forfeit their tax-exempt status?

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gmc;1409626 wrote: Unions can ask their members to vote in a certain way but each member has a choice in the matter. Come to that employers can tell their employees to vote in a certain way and bribe politicians but employees have a free choice when it comes right down to it.

The catholic church commands it's followers on pain of eternal damnation if they don't do as they are told. That's a heck of a big difference, unions members have a free choice catholics don't. Reality is I suspect most Catholics vote as they please but in principle that is why priests of any faith should not be interfering in politics. How would you react if muslim mullahs in the states started telling their members how to vote? It's exactly the same kind of thing.


Don't fool yourself, unions are their own religion. They rule by intimidation.
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Should the Peoria Diocese Catholic churches forfeit their tax-exempt status?

Post by K.Snyder »

flopstock;1409681 wrote: Don't fool yourself, unions are their own religion. They rule by intimidation.People have to survive somehow.
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K.Snyder;1409700 wrote: People have to survive somehow.
Sarcasm?
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Should the Peoria Diocese Catholic churches forfeit their tax-exempt status?

Post by AnneBoleyn »

flopstock;1409681 wrote: Don't fool yourself, unions are their own religion. They rule by intimidation.


If it weren't for those who sacrificed to have unions at all, present day Americans would not be fighting to stay in the middle class, there would be no middle class at all. I can't let this dig at the unions pass without mentioning all we enjoy today because of the unions.
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Accountable;1409734 wrote: Sarcasm?No, it's an informed response, all one needs to do is pick up a history book to understand its sincerity.
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AnneBoleyn;1409736 wrote: If it weren't for those who sacrificed to have unions at all, present day Americans would not be fighting to stay in the middle class, there would be no middle class at all. I can't let this dig at the unions pass without mentioning all we enjoy today because of the unions.


That was because of unionizing (meaning exercising rights of assembly and protest), not because of unions. There's a difference.
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K.Snyder;1409745 wrote: No, it's an informed response, all one needs to do is pick up a history book to understand its sincerity.
Regardless of the amount of intimidation that went on throughout history, I doubt any of it was necessary for survival. ;)

or are you saying that people treat unions as a religion out of a sense of survival?
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Post by K.Snyder »

Accountable;1409748 wrote: Regardless of the amount of intimidation that went on throughout history, I doubt any of it was necessary for survival. ;)

or are you saying that people treat unions as a religion out of a sense of survival?


No, I'm saying the word "intimidation", in the context it was used, is about 10,000 years after its time. Anyone that wishes to argue the ethical nature of unions will be doing so outside of the context of reality for what I can imagine the next 10,000 years, perhaps longer.
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AnneBoleyn;1409736 wrote: If it weren't for those who sacrificed to have unions at all, present day Americans would not be fighting to stay in the middle class, there would be no middle class at all. I can't let this dig at the unions pass without mentioning all we enjoy today because of the unions.
I don't consider it a dig at unions, I consider it a fact of life. We've gone from an industrial economy to a service economy because the unions in my area refused to compromise or make concessions in order to compete with what has become a global workforce.Instead of competing with non union construction companies, they spend their time sitting out front of the places with huge rats and taking pictures of anyone entering... what is the purpose of that, if not intimidation? Folks willing to work are bused in for fear of retribution - is that an imagined fear or is it based on the history of workers who have crossed that line?



It is a fact in my area that unionized construction companies don't bid against each other in neighboring towns for city business. That's why we either pay so much more for road work or god forbid, bring in from outside the area. Then the accusations of disloyalty to local workers is raised. In my opinion, disloyalty to-wards their own community wellbeing should be tossed back at them. But that is literally more than a politicians job is worth, even in these tough economic times.
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But back to topic, I think that any group or charity that pays above minimum wage salaries and benefits to it's management, should not be tax exempt. If some corporate hot shot wants to head the red cross or united way, for example - enable deduction of the value of the actual time(audited) spent working at the cause.



But so and so, who heads red cross or united way, can then stand up and suggest who is running that might have the best interest of the charity at heart, to their constituents.



Not some figurehead who shows up at events and rakes in more than most of us will see in the next few years combined.
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flopstock;1409793 wrote: I don't consider it a dig at unions, I consider it a fact of life. We've gone from an industrial economy to a service economy because the unions in my area refused to compromise or make concessions in order to compete with what has become a global workforce.Instead of competing with non union construction companies, they spend their time sitting out front of the places with huge rats and taking pictures of anyone entering... what is the purpose of that, if not intimidation? Folks willing to work are bused in for fear of retribution - is that an imagined fear or is it based on the history of workers who have crossed that line?



It is a fact in my area that unionized construction companies don't bid against each other in neighboring towns for city business. That's why we either pay so much more for road work or god forbid, bring in from outside the area. Then the accusations of disloyalty to local workers is raised. In my opinion, disloyalty to-wards their own community wellbeing should be tossed back at them. But that is literally more than a politicians job is worth, even in these tough economic times.


Thanks, I'm so glad for your explanation, because you are a person here that I am usually in agreement with & I was wondering where your statement was coming from. Your example is a good one.
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If it's OK for employers to organise themselves into unions - industry lobby groups, if you prefer and to use their financial clout to influence elections and financially support politicians who will look after their interests why does anyone think that workers who do exactly the same - organise in to unions or industry lobby groups and use their financial clout to influence elections and support financially politicians who reflect their interests is somehow wrong? Have you all been brainwashed or something or believe it is OK for big companies to screw their workers for everything they can get out of them because that is what a free market economy means and all have an equal right to be exploited and to stand up for your rights is communism?

That some unions are corrupt is a given, that some were mob controlled is a given but that doesn't make the basic argument for unions wrong.

posted by flopstock

I don't consider it a dig at unions, I consider it a fact of life. We've gone from an industrial economy to a service economy because the unions in my area refused to compromise or make concessions in order to compete with what has become a global workforce.Instead of competing with non union construction companies, they spend their time sitting out front of the places with huge rats and taking pictures of anyone entering... what is the purpose of that, if not intimidation? Folks willing to work are bused in for fear of retribution - is that an imagined fear or is it based on the history of workers who have crossed that line?




The fundamental basis of a capiltalist economy is a well educated well paid work force which forms the customer base for all industry. You don't have an industrial economy any more because all the industry has gone overseas so companies can import things more cheaply and make more profit except and workers at home have been laid off but they forgot you need to have people in jobs with a disposable income to buy the stuff. don't mean support uncompetitive companies or industries but you've tghrown out the bay with the bathwater and convinced yourselves companies and rich people should not pay taxes because they will then use it to make tye economy grow. That anyone still believes that crap is beyond belief. the only wealth creators in an economy are people who grow things or make things to sell. Banks are parasites they always have been and always will be, ubnder control they are benign.

It's the same with monotheistic religion, under control it is a benign influence give any too much power and it will destroy society. You now have them actively telling it's members how to vote - do you really want the followers of a stone age religion who believes in an invisible being telling you all who to hate and who is worthy of being equal under the law?

I'm not an american but we have similar pronouncements being made here - all that is happening is sectarianism is being stoked up again and the thugs have a new justification for beating up people they have been taught to hate.
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gmc;1409800 wrote: If it's OK for employers to organise themselves into unions - industry lobby groups, if you prefer and to use their financial clout to influence elections and financially support politicians who will look after their interests why does anyone think that workers who do exactly the same - organise in to unions or industry lobby groups and use their financial clout to influence elections and support financially politicians who reflect their interests is somehow wrong?
I don't know anyone who draws such a distinction. The people I know either think organizing and lobbying is okay for both, not okay for either, or (rarely) okay for unions but not for corporations.
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Accountable;1409805 wrote: I don't know anyone who draws such a distinction. The people I know either think organizing and lobbying is okay for both, not okay for either, or (rarely) okay for unions but not for corporations.


I'm influenced in my opinions by events in the UK. Here many people blame the demise of the british car industry on the unions, in actual fact we now produce as many cars as we did before except it's for nissan, toyota, bmw general motors and peugeot and export rather a lot as well. The problem was only partly the unions. Same with the demise of our shipbuilding industry we just couldn't compete but it was only in part due to union intransigence it was also a failure on the part iof management to reinvest preferring instead to just milk the company for every penny.

I would be willing to bet if you looked at your car industry the results would be much the same companies milked to death and then the workforce blamed when they fail. You manufacture for toyota, BMW, Nissan good quality product so why are chrysler and the like so bad? better management perhaps? They sell Chrysler here, on paper they look quite good but the build quality is like something from the eighties.

We too have cardinals, bishop and ministers trying to influence how people vote but most people tend to wonder why our politicians give credence to organisation that most nowadays pay little attention to.

Stonewall unapologetic over Scottish cardinal's 'bigot of the year' award | World news | The Guardian
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Accountable;1409805 wrote: I don't know anyone who draws such a distinction. The people I know either think organizing and lobbying is okay for both, not okay for either, or (rarely) okay for unions but not for corporations.


I agree with this. IMO it should be right for all and tax exempt for none.



I wish I had some current area factory mismanagement to point to as the unions being the good guys. I can't. They have all relocated to parts unkown. The only local factory positions are those temp or parttime ones that we managed to pull into the area from overseas, Japan to be specific by offering TIFs.



Our state is on the verge of bankruptcy. Most private sector employers and employees have had to make sacrifices to survive in this economy.



Not the unions.



Here's an interesting opinion piece that I think accurately reflects the state of the union and unions in Illinois today.

Government unions and the downfall of Illinois - Chicago Tribune
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Folks who'd like to copy my intellectual work should expect to pay me for it.:-6

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