EU Rules Seek to Force Britain to Give Criminals a Vote the AA grumpy column

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Mon Apr 20, 2009 7:20 pm

I'll get back to you. What am I doing here at 3 in in the morning???:wah:

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Mon Apr 20, 2009 7:38 pm

Clodhopper;1178072 wrote: I'll get back to you. What am I doing here at 3 in in the morning???:wah: Probably the same as i'm doing at 03.40 am :wah:

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 3:00 am

Pantoandy said:

sorry clodhopper you are talking absolute hollyhocks.

there are professional people who are members of the BNP DOCTORS LAWYERS TEACHERS PRISON OFFICERS AND POLICEMEN are they mindless skinhead thugs?

you are mistaking the BNP with the national front or combat 18 they are the loonies who you dont want in power this is just spin from the mainstream parties because they are frightened of the power the bnp are gaining and they are frightened because the people are saying we have had enough of this and they are losing their big brother grip on our lives.

On the professional people - how does anyone know this? I've had a good look at the membership list and NONE of the professions you list are mentioned as far as I've seen. I found one "Reverend". There are a lot of names and I don't claim to have read them all, but I've looked at a great many. The professions or occupations they do list are: Musician, graduate (and what in, but I saw no doctors or lawyers etc), ex-Services, Hunter and HGV driver. Oh, and pagans. These are about 1 in 100 of the members - the rest (apart from a few exceptions - I noticed one plumber, for example) are just names and addresses.

HGV drvers are useful for getting groups of people around, musicians are needed for so-called blood and honour type festivals, graduates suggest "respectability" and might be able to answer awkward questions or provide useful services eg internet hacking, and ex-Services and Hunters both know about firearms and at the very least can provide some muscle. They don't really give a s**t about the rest.

The link is to the leaked membership list - check it out for yourself:

http://wikileaks.nl/leak/bnp-membership-list.txt

As to being connected to the NF and Combat 18, according to the Panorama programme Under the Skin, they are closely linked. For example:

Scott McLean

Position: Deputy Chairman, and regional organiser for Scotland

Attended Blood and Honour nazi skinhead festival in Scotland.

Name: Paul Thompson

Position: Branch organiser for County Durham

February 2001 - Attended a meeting of the American Friends of the BNP.

1994 - Found guilty of criminal damage after participating in an attack with C18 activists in Durham. Sentenced to a year's conditional discharge and made to pay Â£237 compensation.

July 1998 - Convicted for violence and jailed for six months.

July 1998 - Convicted for violence after attacking football fans in Darlington town centre (see above).

Allan Payne

Position: Branch organiser for Manchester and Salford

1987 - Admitted to an undercover newspaper reporter that he was involved in a plot to kidnap Viraj Mendis, a Sri Lankan anti-racist, who was fighting a Home Office deportation order.

1990 - Exposed in an undercover newspaper report for distributing 10,000 copies of Holocaust News, a newssheet that denied the Holocaust occurred. November 2000 - travelled to Spain to celebrate the birth of Spanish fascist dictator, General Franco.

See link for more details and names:

BBC News | Programmes | Under the skin of the BNP

All this is in the public domain on the internet, and the BBC are yet to be sued for it. If someone put on a BBC website that I was a C18 activist, I'd certainly sue them for libel. If these statements aren't true, why haven't the BNP activists mentioned sued the BBC?

What I don't deny in the slightest is that they've hit on some issues that concern many people - me included. I am, however, utterly convinced that the BNP Neo-Nazis are a cure worse than the disease.

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 3:35 am

pantoandy: Could you please explain your links to the BNP? In dealing with a few BNP "internet missionaries" over the years I've noticed that they share a number of features. You fit the pattern quite nicely, but that could just be coincidence.

Are you a BNP member? Have you been assigned or picked ForumGarden as your "patch" for preaching?

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 8:08 am

Clodhopper;1178147 wrote: Pantoandy said:

On the professional people - how does anyone know this? I've had a good look at the membership list and NONE of the professions you list are mentioned as far as I've seen. I found one "Reverend". There are a lot of names and I don't claim to have read them all, but I've looked at a great many. The professions or occupations they do list are: Musician, graduate (and what in, but I saw no doctors or lawyers etc), ex-Services, Hunter and HGV driver. Oh, and pagans. These are about 1 in 100 of the members - the rest (apart from a few exceptions - I noticed one plumber, for example) are just names and addresses.

HGV drvers are useful for getting groups of people around, musicians are needed for so-called blood and honour type festivals, graduates suggest "respectability" and might be able to answer awkward questions or provide useful services eg internet hacking, and ex-Services and Hunters both know about firearms and at the very least can provide some muscle. They don't really give a s**t about the rest.

The link is to the leaked membership list - check it out for yourself:

http://wikileaks.nl/leak/bnp-membership-list.txt

As to being connected to the NF and Combat 18, according to the Panorama programme Under the Skin, they are closely linked. For example:

See link for more details and names:

BBC News | Programmes | Under the skin of the BNP

All this is in the public domain on the internet, and the BBC are yet to be sued for it. If someone put on a BBC website that I was a C18 activist, I'd certainly sue them for libel. If these statements aren't true, why haven't the BNP activists mentioned sued the BBC?

What I don't deny in the slightest is that they've hit on some issues that concern many people - me included. I am, however, utterly convinced that the BNP Neo-Nazis are a cure worse than the disease.
Your quotes of BNP members would hold some credibility if:

Most mainstream politicians had not been investigated at some point for criminal activity. Lord Archer for one.

Nick Clegg, Lid Dem leader exposed statistics that showed we have over 1,000 police officers in service with criminal records. He went on to say that the figure was only from a few counties and not the entire country which would put the figure far higher. Some of these convictions were for serious assault.

Police are under-investigation for a manslaughter and serious assault on G20 protesters and an innocent man after covering up their coller numbers.

Pot...... Kettle......Black

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 8:19 am

oscar;1178274 wrote: Your quotes of BNP members would hold some credibility if:

Most mainstream politicians had not been investigated at some point for criminal activity. Lord Archer for one.

Nick Clegg, Lid Dem leader exposed statistics that showed we have over 1,000 police officers in service with criminal records. He went on to say that the figure was only from a few counties and not the entire country which would put the figure far higher. Some of these convictions were for serious assault.

Police are under-investigation for a manslaughter and serious assault on G20 protesters and an innocent man after covering up their coller numbers.

Pot...... Kettle......Black

Falsifying evidence to persuade people to go to war would be pretty high on my list of things that should carry jail sentence so would doing nothing about it when it became clear what had happened.

It's ironic isn't it? People bang on about the rise in crime and the criminal underclass yet the biggest criminals all wear suits and work in banking or politics.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 8:25 am

gmc;1178278 wrote: Falsifying evidence to persuade people to go to war would be pretty high on my list of things that should carry jail sentence so would doing nothing about it when it became clear what had happened.

It's ironic isn't it? People bang on about the rise in crime and the criminal underclass yet the biggest criminals all wear suits and work in banking or politics.
Yes, i totally agree with you.

Clegg has announced he will follow up the imfo from other counties to expose exactly how many officers do have criminal records.

If every MP was prosecuted, we'd have none left to the job.

My comparison of 'pot, kettle, black' is how can anyone condemn criminal records with BNP members when the Blair cabinet are guilty of war crimes, fraud, and worse. Not just Labour..... they are all the bloody same.

farmer giles · Post by **farmer giles** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 8:34 am

criminals voting ???

if you ask me anyone that voted for tony blair and gordy is a criminal :yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl

they would probably get away on the grounds of diminished responsibility :yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 8:36 am

farmer giles;1178286 wrote: criminals voting ???

if you ask me anyone that voted for tony blair and gordy is a criminal :yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl

they would probably get away on the grounds of diminished responsibility :yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl Please do not include His Hunkiness in your comments or I'll come to Bracknell and frost your rim.

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 3:33 pm

Your quotes of BNP members would hold some credibility if:

Most mainstream politicians had not been investigated at some point for criminal activity. Lord Archer for one.

Going to do a spot on you here.:p

But "most"? Ok, prove it. And to be relevant to the case I'm talking about, show me they've got a proven - note, "proven" - track record of criminality in the area they are trying to be elected in.

I agree that falsifying evidence to get us into war would count - if proven (and I'm not sure he was more than wrong because he went with the intelligence reports). The BNP members I've mentioned are proven criminals before they have power, not after power has corrupted them...

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 3:45 pm

Clodhopper;1178513 wrote: Going to do a spot on you here.:p

But "most"? Ok, prove it. And to be relevant to the case I'm talking about, show me they've got a proven - note, "proven" - track record of criminality in the area they are trying to be elected in.

I agree that falsifying evidence to get us into war would count - if proven (and I'm not sure he was more than wrong because he went with the intelligence reports). The BNP members I've mentioned are proven criminals before they have power, not after power has corrupted them... It's an ambiguous request for proof. You have quoted some BNP members who i suspect the press found details of previous court appearences on. Any Politician in any party could equally have the same. Do you have proof that any mainstream politician has not commited a crime before they came to power? I doubt it unless some gutter press hack has trawled the records to find it. I doubt that you are able to say 100% that no politician commited an offence before coming to power. The truth is, we don't know enough about the lot of them.

Even so, I care not that they commited an illegal act after they came to power. Weather they commited an offence or not is the comparison i take. You can nnot excuse the like of Archer by saying 'ah but he was a good boy until he came to power'. It's totally hypocritical.

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 3:53 pm

You can nnot excuse the like of Archer by saying 'ah but he was a good boy until he came to power'.

Completey agree. My point is that there is a difference between electing known violent criminals and people who aren't. They might commit crimes afterwards, but they are not proven criminals before they get power.

And it's amazing that with all these lawyers on the books :rolleyes: this Panorama show hasn't been sued at all, if the BNP did not commit these crimes.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 3:57 pm

Clodhopper;1178521 wrote: Completey agree. My point is that there is a difference between electing known violent criminals and people who aren't. They might commit crimes afterwards, but they are not proven criminals before they get power.

And it's amazing that with all these lawyers on the books :rolleyes: this Panorama show hasn't been sued at all, if the BNP did not commit these crimes. My point is that any politician could have a criminal record before being elected. Unless it's declared at the time or some gutter press hack finds it.....we could never know.

We all saw John Prescott use violence on a protester but does that not matter as he was in power at the time? :wah:

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 4:34 pm

We all saw John Prescott use violence on a protester but does that not matter as he was in power at the time?

...but what we all loved about dear old Prescott's reaction was that he reacted as a person, not a politician. He didn't think, "How is this going to look in he papers", he reacted.

Oh, and of course, we KNOW these BNP boggers already have convictions for serious stuff like petrol bombing people.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 4:55 pm

Clodhopper;1178528 wrote: ...but what we all loved about dear old Prescott's reaction was that he reacted as a person, not a politician. He didn't think, "How is this going to look in he papers", he reacted.

Oh, and of course, we KNOW these BNP boggers already have convictions for serious stuff like petrol bombing people.
No...... he reacted to violence...with violence.

How do we know the BNP boggers have convictions for serious stuff? Have we seen their court documents or the world of a hack?

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 5:12 pm

oscar;1178533 wrote: No...... he reacted to violence...with violence.

How do we know the BNP boggers have convictions for serious stuff? Have we seen their court documents or the world of a hack?

If it isn't proveably true it's libel. It might even BE true, but if the accuser can't PROVE it it's still libel, and actionable. Haven't seen one of them take it to court. I'd be taking the BBC to court if they said I'd petrol bombed someone...so I think it's true. Especially since according to pantoandy they have lawyers as members (and the way he said it suggested lots of lawyers) and yet these apparent BNP lawyers haven't been prepared to take action with clear statements along the lines of "petrol bombed a member of the RUC" . Or any of the other things they've been accused of.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 5:20 pm

Clodhopper;1178538 wrote: If it isn't proveably true it's libel. It might even BE true, but if the accuser can't PROVE it it's still libel, and actionable. Haven't seen one of them take it to court. I'd be taking the BBC to court if they said I'd petrol bombed someone...so I think it's true. Especially since according to pantoandy they have lawyers as members (and the way he said it suggested lots of lawyers) and yet these apparent BNP lawyers haven't been prepared to take action with clear statements along the lines of "petrol bombed a member of the RUC" . Or any of the other things they've been accused of.
You don't think for a minute that a successful lawsuit by the BNP against the BBC would actually make the press headlines do you? :yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 8:29 am

oscar;1178541 wrote: You don't think for a minute that a successful lawsuit by the BNP against the BBC would actually make the press headlines do you? :yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl

Of course it would. All the murdoch owned papers would be on it like a shot as part of their campaign to destroy the beeb so they can have free rein to rip us all off.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 10:07 am

gmc;1178767 wrote: Of course it would. All the murdoch owned papers would be on it like a shot as part of their campaign to destroy the beeb so they can have free rein to rip us all off. Yes true.

I don't really give a toss at the moment. No-one can tell me that BNP candidates are any worse than the bunch of crooks in government today.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Thu Apr 23, 2009 7:45 am

oscar;1178805 wrote: Yes true.

I don't really give a toss at the moment. No-one can tell me that BNP candidates are any worse than the bunch of crooks in government today.

Crooks you can live with, what's worth imo is politicians with their nose in the trough that don't see anything wrong in it.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Thu Apr 23, 2009 7:49 am

gmc;1179142 wrote: Crooks you can live with, what's worth imo is politicians with their nose in the trough that don't see anything wrong in it. I agree.

OK, no act of violence is good but then what is really worse. As you say, the crooks are politicians bleeding this country dry, on the make and can see nothing wrong. It's almost like they think once they have been elected, that gives them special licence to become a crook and should be immune from prosecution.

Snowfire · Post by **Snowfire** » Thu Apr 23, 2009 7:49 am

gmc;1179142 wrote: Crooks you can live with, what's worth imo is politicians with their nose in the trough that don't see anything wrong in it.

Hey mate ! You've developed a typing lisp :wah:

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Thu Apr 23, 2009 7:57 am

Snowfire;1179145 wrote: Hey mate ! You've developed a typing lisp :wah:

Thso? I type I spell it's the two tiogetyher i find difficult to mange

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Thu Apr 23, 2009 4:15 pm

gmc;1179149 wrote: Thso? I type I spell it's the two tiogetyher i find difficult to mange And using capital letters :p:p:p