Quebec, Canada, is seeking to add regulations that fully veiled people may not cast a vote. The justification seems to be that they can not be fully identified as the legal voters.
story
Justification can be found for nearly anything if you look hard enough, the question here is motivation. Are they really concerned that votes are being illegally cast or are they looking to disenfranchise Muslims with more extreme views?
I suspect that a lot of people won't care because they never intend on voting with a veil so it ends up falling under one of those "doesn't affect me" categories. I always vote on the side of human rights. The veils do not put anyone in danger so leave them alone. Not liking someone's point of view is called being human but limiting their rights because you don't like them is called injustice.
Unveil Voters?
Unveil Voters?
koan;713730 wrote: Quebec, Canada, is seeking to add regulations that fully veiled people may not cast a vote. The justification seems to be that they can not be fully identified as the legal voters.
story
Justification can be found for nearly anything if you look hard enough, the question here is motivation. Are they really concerned that votes are being illegally cast or are they looking to disenfranchise Muslims with more extreme views?
I suspect that a lot of people won't care because they never intend on voting with a veil so it ends up falling under one of those "doesn't affect me" categories. I always vote on the side of human rights. The veils do not put anyone in danger so leave them alone. Not liking someone's point of view is called being human but limiting their rights because you don't like them is called injustice.
Then how do you feel about fully veiled people going through customs without being forced to unveil?
story
Justification can be found for nearly anything if you look hard enough, the question here is motivation. Are they really concerned that votes are being illegally cast or are they looking to disenfranchise Muslims with more extreme views?
I suspect that a lot of people won't care because they never intend on voting with a veil so it ends up falling under one of those "doesn't affect me" categories. I always vote on the side of human rights. The veils do not put anyone in danger so leave them alone. Not liking someone's point of view is called being human but limiting their rights because you don't like them is called injustice.
Then how do you feel about fully veiled people going through customs without being forced to unveil?
Unveil Voters?
I think they'd better hope they don't set the metal detector off.
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freetobeme
- Posts: 258
- Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2007 1:05 pm
Unveil Voters?
We have a right to expect people to identify themselves, there are exceptions for medical circumstances. Reasonable accommodation will allow them to unveil in front of a woman.
There is no 'agenda' to disenfranchise female muslims, but maybe an expectation that when you live in Canada, you expect to be part of Canadian society. Maybe 'reasonable accommodation' should mean that they should accommodate the host country they choose to live in.
There is no 'agenda' to disenfranchise female muslims, but maybe an expectation that when you live in Canada, you expect to be part of Canadian society. Maybe 'reasonable accommodation' should mean that they should accommodate the host country they choose to live in.
senior's politics and discussion
Unveil Voters?
Canada has no "society" of it's own. That's our policy. We are a MOSAIC :rolleyes:
We specifically don't do the melting pot thing as part of our national identity.
We specifically don't do the melting pot thing as part of our national identity.
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freetobeme
- Posts: 258
- Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2007 1:05 pm
Unveil Voters?
Canada certainly does have a cohesiveness, or a society; no country can survive with it. Besides, the mosaic isn't working, people have to be part of society, keeping them apart or isolated within their own cultural/tribal enclaves doesn't work.
The belief that somehow it is good for the country to encourage domestic ethnic separatism, which can include private schools with a medieval curricula, is astounding, no country can survive with out an identity. We need to highlight our similarities, not our differences.
http://www.friendshipgarden.easyfreefor ... 16140.html
The belief that somehow it is good for the country to encourage domestic ethnic separatism, which can include private schools with a medieval curricula, is astounding, no country can survive with out an identity. We need to highlight our similarities, not our differences.
http://www.friendshipgarden.easyfreefor ... 16140.html
senior's politics and discussion
Unveil Voters?
We don't keep them apart, they congregate in their own areas of the city and they like it that way and we support their cultural events and encourage that.
What part of it isn't working?
Last I heard, our dollar was doing quite well.
What part of it isn't working?
Last I heard, our dollar was doing quite well.
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freetobeme
- Posts: 258
- Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2007 1:05 pm
Unveil Voters?
Nothing to do with our dollar.
We pay them to stay apart, (with our taxdollars) yet we condemn apartheid. We pay them to do their dancing, we eat their food, but official "diversity," is simply an insidious form of racism. "Diversity" propagates fear and dislike of those who are separate; a diverse unintegrated community is less likely to trust anyone – when neighbours are no longer able to communicate because they can't or don't speak English/french , that is when we see a place divided.
We pay them to stay apart, (with our taxdollars) yet we condemn apartheid. We pay them to do their dancing, we eat their food, but official "diversity," is simply an insidious form of racism. "Diversity" propagates fear and dislike of those who are separate; a diverse unintegrated community is less likely to trust anyone – when neighbours are no longer able to communicate because they can't or don't speak English/french , that is when we see a place divided.
senior's politics and discussion
Unveil Voters?
We pay them to do their dancing? :wah:
It's odd because I didn't grow up with a sense of heritage or roots to any culture so I'm pure Canadian to the bone. I went to England on an ancestry visa but still don't get the whole cultural attachment thing. I lived off Roncesvalles in Toronto, which is Greek town, did my shopping in Chinatown on Spadina, because they had the best papayas, worked in an Italian district where they made the best coffee and never once did I think is was a shame I couldn't get all these things in one place.
The only barrier to integrating is whether or not you are willing to walk down the street in every area and say hello to everyone you meet. That's what I do. I talk to perfect strangers every time I go out. My brother got married in a mosque. That's the oddest place I've been. No one stuck a head scarf on me or whispered behind my back about my ankles showing. They were incredibly nice people.
In Whitechapel I saw a woman with a full veil carrying about 8 bags of groceries and wanted to offer to help her carry it home but didn't want to scare her. When I think of it now, I wish I had. I bet she would have been quite grateful.
So, if you're looking for a way to help integrate cultures, tell me who you talked to today that doesn't look and dress like you.
It's odd because I didn't grow up with a sense of heritage or roots to any culture so I'm pure Canadian to the bone. I went to England on an ancestry visa but still don't get the whole cultural attachment thing. I lived off Roncesvalles in Toronto, which is Greek town, did my shopping in Chinatown on Spadina, because they had the best papayas, worked in an Italian district where they made the best coffee and never once did I think is was a shame I couldn't get all these things in one place.
The only barrier to integrating is whether or not you are willing to walk down the street in every area and say hello to everyone you meet. That's what I do. I talk to perfect strangers every time I go out. My brother got married in a mosque. That's the oddest place I've been. No one stuck a head scarf on me or whispered behind my back about my ankles showing. They were incredibly nice people.
In Whitechapel I saw a woman with a full veil carrying about 8 bags of groceries and wanted to offer to help her carry it home but didn't want to scare her. When I think of it now, I wish I had. I bet she would have been quite grateful.
So, if you're looking for a way to help integrate cultures, tell me who you talked to today that doesn't look and dress like you.
Unveil Voters?
posted by koan
Quebec, Canada, is seeking to add regulations that fully veiled people may not cast a vote. The justification seems to be that they can not be fully identified as the legal voters.
story
Justification can be found for nearly anything if you look hard enough, the question here is motivation. Are they really concerned that votes are being illegally cast or are they looking to disenfranchise Muslims with more extreme views?
I suspect that a lot of people won't care because they never intend on voting with a veil so it ends up falling under one of those "doesn't affect me" categories. I always vote on the side of human rights. The veils do not put anyone in danger so leave them alone. Not liking someone's point of view is called being human but limiting their rights because you don't like them is called injustice.
Don't you find the double standards irritating?
http://www.iht.com/articles/2004/12/06/ ... y_ed3_.php
The UAE, Saudi Arabia and Kuwait are in fact the only three Arab countries without suffrage for women. All three are close U.S. allies, and yet the Bush administration, which made much of women's participation in Afghanistan's recent elections, is strangely quiet on women's rights and suffrage in these Gulf countries. The silence is particularly ironic considering that Iraq was the first Arab country to give women the vote, in 1948.
If you as a western woman were in saudi as a visitor not only would you not be able to walk around dressed as you do at home just going out on your own would be a matter of some difficulty and yet no westerner complains about unfair treatment and demands to be allowed to dress in saudi as they do at home for the simple reason they would not get anywhere. Get stuffed would probably be the politest response. Yet when we object to people dressed as tents when their identity needs to be checked and it's racist. It's not racism when their is perfectly valid reason for having the veil removed. If you want to live in a foreign country yo should accept their customs.
The women concerned are getting more rights than they did at home, If they don't appreciate it maybe they shouldn't be allowed to vote.
Quebec, Canada, is seeking to add regulations that fully veiled people may not cast a vote. The justification seems to be that they can not be fully identified as the legal voters.
story
Justification can be found for nearly anything if you look hard enough, the question here is motivation. Are they really concerned that votes are being illegally cast or are they looking to disenfranchise Muslims with more extreme views?
I suspect that a lot of people won't care because they never intend on voting with a veil so it ends up falling under one of those "doesn't affect me" categories. I always vote on the side of human rights. The veils do not put anyone in danger so leave them alone. Not liking someone's point of view is called being human but limiting their rights because you don't like them is called injustice.
Don't you find the double standards irritating?
http://www.iht.com/articles/2004/12/06/ ... y_ed3_.php
The UAE, Saudi Arabia and Kuwait are in fact the only three Arab countries without suffrage for women. All three are close U.S. allies, and yet the Bush administration, which made much of women's participation in Afghanistan's recent elections, is strangely quiet on women's rights and suffrage in these Gulf countries. The silence is particularly ironic considering that Iraq was the first Arab country to give women the vote, in 1948.
If you as a western woman were in saudi as a visitor not only would you not be able to walk around dressed as you do at home just going out on your own would be a matter of some difficulty and yet no westerner complains about unfair treatment and demands to be allowed to dress in saudi as they do at home for the simple reason they would not get anywhere. Get stuffed would probably be the politest response. Yet when we object to people dressed as tents when their identity needs to be checked and it's racist. It's not racism when their is perfectly valid reason for having the veil removed. If you want to live in a foreign country yo should accept their customs.
The women concerned are getting more rights than they did at home, If they don't appreciate it maybe they shouldn't be allowed to vote.
Unveil Voters?
How is that different from saying that in their own country they'd get their hand chopped off for stealing so we are permitted to do that here?
It's about living up to the idea that the country was founded on, not about whether or not we are more fair than someone else. Why hold yourself to the lowest common denominator for a standard?
It's about living up to the idea that the country was founded on, not about whether or not we are more fair than someone else. Why hold yourself to the lowest common denominator for a standard?
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RedGlitter
- Posts: 15777
- Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 3:51 am
Unveil Voters?
koan;714346 wrote: How is that different from saying that in their own country they'd get their hand chopped off for stealing so we are permitted to do that here?
It's about living up to the idea that the country was founded on, not about whether or not we are more fair than someone else. Why hold yourself to the lowest common denominator for a standard?
Because one is valid and fair and serves a purpose while the other is ignorant and despicable.
It's about living up to the idea that the country was founded on, not about whether or not we are more fair than someone else. Why hold yourself to the lowest common denominator for a standard?
Because one is valid and fair and serves a purpose while the other is ignorant and despicable.
Unveil Voters?
koan;714346 wrote: How is that different from saying that in their own country they'd get their hand chopped off for stealing so we are permitted to do that here?
It's about living up to the idea that the country was founded on, not about whether or not we are more fair than someone else. Why hold yourself to the lowest common denominator for a standard?
I presume in your country you need to identify yourself when you go to vote. How can you check that when you can't see the person? If in the UK our youths are told to take down their hoods in shopping centres so they can be identified on cctv why should a muslim be exempt?
If you were in saudi you would be subject to saudi custom and law whether you like it or not. You would have to wear a veil and not be able to go out on your own. In canada I presume they can wear a veil of they want but on occasion when they need to be identified then why should they be exempt? It is not What happens at airports? how do you know if it is a man or a woman?-more to the point what is under the gown- in an age when muslim suicide bombers blow themselves up why should we tolerate anyone dressed in a manner where they could easily be concealing anything?
What do you do when you have a forced arranged marriage? Turn a blind eye because that is their custom and you have no right to interfere.
It's about living up to the idea that the country was founded on, not about whether or not we are more fair than someone else. Why hold yourself to the lowest common denominator for a standard?
I presume in your country you need to identify yourself when you go to vote. How can you check that when you can't see the person? If in the UK our youths are told to take down their hoods in shopping centres so they can be identified on cctv why should a muslim be exempt?
If you were in saudi you would be subject to saudi custom and law whether you like it or not. You would have to wear a veil and not be able to go out on your own. In canada I presume they can wear a veil of they want but on occasion when they need to be identified then why should they be exempt? It is not What happens at airports? how do you know if it is a man or a woman?-more to the point what is under the gown- in an age when muslim suicide bombers blow themselves up why should we tolerate anyone dressed in a manner where they could easily be concealing anything?
What do you do when you have a forced arranged marriage? Turn a blind eye because that is their custom and you have no right to interfere.
Unveil Voters?
RedGlitter;714386 wrote: Because one is valid and fair and serves a purpose while the other is ignorant and despicable.
You forgot the words "to me" on the end of that statement.
gmc;714394 wrote: I presume in your country you need to identify yourself when you go to vote. How can you check that when you can't see the person? If in the UK our youths are told to take down their hoods in shopping centres so they can be identified on cctv why should a muslim be exempt?
Do you seriously think that no one is cheating the system without using veils? I knew someone who worked at a polling center in Toronto and some folks came in through the evening giving an address that was either a post box service company or warehouse units, I can't recall which, but he knew the address and challenged every voter that came in saying they lived there. They had been sent in from another district by one of the parties to add votes for that candidate. The members of the parties do this for each other in sectors that they are running too close in the polls on. They didn't get charged or arrested, they were just turned away. So... I'm supposed to think that the threat to our electoral system is coming from veiled women? They still need to have a voter registration. If a guy wants to dress up and take a woman's driver's license or summat, that driver's license only gets one vote so no one gets an extra ballot. It's the politicians who are stacking the decks.
If you were in saudi you would be subject to saudi custom and law whether you like it or not. You would have to wear a veil and not be able to go out on your own. In canada I presume they can wear a veil of they want but on occasion when they need to be identified then why should they be exempt? It is not What happens at airports? how do you know if it is a man or a woman?-more to the point what is under the gown- in an age when muslim suicide bombers blow themselves up why should we tolerate anyone dressed in a manner where they could easily be concealing anything?
We are currently only talking about whether they get to vote or not at the moment. A person who expects to travel through airports with veils is pushing their luck. Passports will not be issued to anyone with hats or prescription eyeglasses... I even had to tuck my daughter's hair behind her ear for the photo because ears have to be showing. If they can't get a passport they can't travel. And I still don't give a crap what rules other people have in their countries. Canada is multi-cultural as a founding principle. I've got a better chance of being hit by a white drunk driver than attacked by a terrorist.
What do you do when you have a forced arranged marriage? Turn a blind eye because that is their custom and you have no right to interfere.
Are you implying that marriages that aren't arranged do better?
You forgot the words "to me" on the end of that statement.
gmc;714394 wrote: I presume in your country you need to identify yourself when you go to vote. How can you check that when you can't see the person? If in the UK our youths are told to take down their hoods in shopping centres so they can be identified on cctv why should a muslim be exempt?
Do you seriously think that no one is cheating the system without using veils? I knew someone who worked at a polling center in Toronto and some folks came in through the evening giving an address that was either a post box service company or warehouse units, I can't recall which, but he knew the address and challenged every voter that came in saying they lived there. They had been sent in from another district by one of the parties to add votes for that candidate. The members of the parties do this for each other in sectors that they are running too close in the polls on. They didn't get charged or arrested, they were just turned away. So... I'm supposed to think that the threat to our electoral system is coming from veiled women? They still need to have a voter registration. If a guy wants to dress up and take a woman's driver's license or summat, that driver's license only gets one vote so no one gets an extra ballot. It's the politicians who are stacking the decks.
If you were in saudi you would be subject to saudi custom and law whether you like it or not. You would have to wear a veil and not be able to go out on your own. In canada I presume they can wear a veil of they want but on occasion when they need to be identified then why should they be exempt? It is not What happens at airports? how do you know if it is a man or a woman?-more to the point what is under the gown- in an age when muslim suicide bombers blow themselves up why should we tolerate anyone dressed in a manner where they could easily be concealing anything?
We are currently only talking about whether they get to vote or not at the moment. A person who expects to travel through airports with veils is pushing their luck. Passports will not be issued to anyone with hats or prescription eyeglasses... I even had to tuck my daughter's hair behind her ear for the photo because ears have to be showing. If they can't get a passport they can't travel. And I still don't give a crap what rules other people have in their countries. Canada is multi-cultural as a founding principle. I've got a better chance of being hit by a white drunk driver than attacked by a terrorist.
What do you do when you have a forced arranged marriage? Turn a blind eye because that is their custom and you have no right to interfere.
Are you implying that marriages that aren't arranged do better?
Unveil Voters?
posted by koan
Do you seriously think that no one is cheating the system without using veils? I knew someone who worked at a polling center in Toronto and some folks came in through the evening giving an address that was either a post box service company or warehouse units, I can't recall which, but he knew the address and challenged every voter that came in saying they lived there. They had been sent in from another district by one of the parties to add votes for that candidate. The members of the parties do this for each other in sectors that they are running too close in the polls on. They didn't get charged or arrested, they were just turned away. So... I'm supposed to think that the threat to our electoral system is coming from veiled women? They still need to have a voter registration. If a guy wants to dress up and take a woman's driver's license or summat, that driver's license only gets one vote so no one gets an extra ballot. It's the politicians who are stacking the decks.
Thats serious how come they just get away with it?
posted by koan
Are you implying that marriages that aren't arranged do better?
No but I said forced arranged marraiges when one ot the other is not given any choice in the matter. In the UK there have been cases where UK born girls are taken on what they think is a holiday to pakistan and find themselves forced to get married very much against their will. Authorities were reluctant to get involved in what is essentially kidnap and rape for fear of offending the asian community. Thanks to women's action groups it is taken a bit more seriously.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3956399.stm
Do you seriously think that no one is cheating the system without using veils? I knew someone who worked at a polling center in Toronto and some folks came in through the evening giving an address that was either a post box service company or warehouse units, I can't recall which, but he knew the address and challenged every voter that came in saying they lived there. They had been sent in from another district by one of the parties to add votes for that candidate. The members of the parties do this for each other in sectors that they are running too close in the polls on. They didn't get charged or arrested, they were just turned away. So... I'm supposed to think that the threat to our electoral system is coming from veiled women? They still need to have a voter registration. If a guy wants to dress up and take a woman's driver's license or summat, that driver's license only gets one vote so no one gets an extra ballot. It's the politicians who are stacking the decks.
Thats serious how come they just get away with it?
posted by koan
Are you implying that marriages that aren't arranged do better?
No but I said forced arranged marraiges when one ot the other is not given any choice in the matter. In the UK there have been cases where UK born girls are taken on what they think is a holiday to pakistan and find themselves forced to get married very much against their will. Authorities were reluctant to get involved in what is essentially kidnap and rape for fear of offending the asian community. Thanks to women's action groups it is taken a bit more seriously.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3956399.stm
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freetobeme
- Posts: 258
- Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2007 1:05 pm
Unveil Voters?
Multi-cult is not a founding concept of Canada, it is a politically correct concept from Trudeau. The original concept was of two founding peoples.
Europe is taking a hard look at a 'multicult' policy as they are now grappling with an influx of non-Western immigrants who come with vastly different values, many of them to do with women, showing little inclination to change.The problem now is how much should we accommodate in order to keep our social cohesion.
The Netherlands, among others are now finding out that it isn't working.
Potential immigrants are now required to watch a video in their home countries about Dutch life and places emphasis on equal treatment for women and gays.
We also have the instance in Ontario where a form of Sharia Law was requested, fortunately McGuinty said: "We believe that no matter where you come from or how long you've been here, we are all to be held accountable by the same law."
"Diverse societies work, but only if everyone lives by the same rules."
come and see me here:
http://www.friendshipgarden.easyfreefor ... ?eff=16140
Europe is taking a hard look at a 'multicult' policy as they are now grappling with an influx of non-Western immigrants who come with vastly different values, many of them to do with women, showing little inclination to change.The problem now is how much should we accommodate in order to keep our social cohesion.
The Netherlands, among others are now finding out that it isn't working.
Potential immigrants are now required to watch a video in their home countries about Dutch life and places emphasis on equal treatment for women and gays.
We also have the instance in Ontario where a form of Sharia Law was requested, fortunately McGuinty said: "We believe that no matter where you come from or how long you've been here, we are all to be held accountable by the same law."
"Diverse societies work, but only if everyone lives by the same rules."
come and see me here:
http://www.friendshipgarden.easyfreefor ... ?eff=16140
senior's politics and discussion
Unveil Voters?
freetobeme;714580 wrote: Multi-cult is not a founding concept of Canada, it is a politically correct concept from Trudeau. The original concept was of two founding peoples.
Europe is taking a hard look at a 'multicult' policy as they are now grappling with an influx of non-Western immigrants who come with vastly different values, many of them to do with women, showing little inclination to change.The problem now is how much should we accommodate in order to keep our social cohesion.
The Netherlands, among others are now finding out that it isn't working.
Potential immigrants are now required to watch a video in their home countries about Dutch life and places emphasis on equal treatment for women and gays.
We also have the instance in Ontario where a form of Sharia Law was requested, fortunately McGuinty said: "We believe that no matter where you come from or how long you've been here, we are all to be held accountable by the same law."
"Diverse societies work, but only if everyone lives by the same rules."
come and see me here:
http://www.friendshipgarden.easyfreefor ... ?eff=16140
I agree 100% with this post.
Where does it all stop if you give into everyone's request? Why is the West so determine to do away with our own traditions in the fear that we will offend others who come to our countries?
Everyone is welcome, but leave some of the bagage behing you and try to adapt a little instead of always asking us to change our ways to accomodate.
Europe is taking a hard look at a 'multicult' policy as they are now grappling with an influx of non-Western immigrants who come with vastly different values, many of them to do with women, showing little inclination to change.The problem now is how much should we accommodate in order to keep our social cohesion.
The Netherlands, among others are now finding out that it isn't working.
Potential immigrants are now required to watch a video in their home countries about Dutch life and places emphasis on equal treatment for women and gays.
We also have the instance in Ontario where a form of Sharia Law was requested, fortunately McGuinty said: "We believe that no matter where you come from or how long you've been here, we are all to be held accountable by the same law."
"Diverse societies work, but only if everyone lives by the same rules."
come and see me here:
http://www.friendshipgarden.easyfreefor ... ?eff=16140
I agree 100% with this post.
Where does it all stop if you give into everyone's request? Why is the West so determine to do away with our own traditions in the fear that we will offend others who come to our countries?
Everyone is welcome, but leave some of the bagage behing you and try to adapt a little instead of always asking us to change our ways to accomodate.
Unveil Voters?
gmc;714567 wrote:
Thats serious how come they just get away with it?
I've never seen police at the polling stations. Mostly little old ladies that sacrifice their quilting bee night.
No but I said forced arranged marraiges when one ot the other is not given any choice in the matter. In the UK there have been cases where UK born girls are taken on what they think is a holiday to pakistan and find themselves forced to get married very much against their will. Authorities were reluctant to get involved in what is essentially kidnap and rape for fear of offending the asian community. Thanks to women's action groups it is taken a bit more seriously.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3956399.stm
really, what does that have to do with voting?
That's the type of thing that happens and we find out and then groups try to stop it. There is still a slave trade and it has nothing to do with a woman's religious choice to wear veils. I don't know if it is always their choice but all the muslim women I've met personally choose to wear veils. It's about humility and a desire for privacy.
freetobeme;714580 wrote: Multi-cult is not a founding concept of Canada, it is a politically correct concept from Trudeau. The original concept was of two founding peoples.
If Canada hadn't agreed to be multicultural, the French and British would have kept fighting.
Europe is taking a hard look at a 'multicult' policy as they are now grappling with an influx of non-Western immigrants who come with vastly different values, many of them to do with women, showing little inclination to change.The problem now is how much should we accommodate in order to keep our social cohesion.
The Netherlands, among others are now finding out that it isn't working.
Potential immigrants are now required to watch a video in their home countries about Dutch life and places emphasis on equal treatment for women and gays.
We also have the instance in Ontario where a form of Sharia Law was requested, fortunately McGuinty said: "We believe that no matter where you come from or how long you've been here, we are all to be held accountable by the same law."
"Diverse societies work, but only if everyone lives by the same rules."
come and see me here:
http://www.friendshipgarden.easyfreefor ... ?eff=16140
oh, lord... not sharia law again.
anyone can go to the courts and file an application, no matter how ridiculous.
why don't you drop in there today and file that all muslims should be ejected from the country? You'd actually get a file number. If you pay a lawyer to help you fill it out it might even get to court.
Thats serious how come they just get away with it?
I've never seen police at the polling stations. Mostly little old ladies that sacrifice their quilting bee night.
No but I said forced arranged marraiges when one ot the other is not given any choice in the matter. In the UK there have been cases where UK born girls are taken on what they think is a holiday to pakistan and find themselves forced to get married very much against their will. Authorities were reluctant to get involved in what is essentially kidnap and rape for fear of offending the asian community. Thanks to women's action groups it is taken a bit more seriously.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3956399.stm
really, what does that have to do with voting?
That's the type of thing that happens and we find out and then groups try to stop it. There is still a slave trade and it has nothing to do with a woman's religious choice to wear veils. I don't know if it is always their choice but all the muslim women I've met personally choose to wear veils. It's about humility and a desire for privacy.
freetobeme;714580 wrote: Multi-cult is not a founding concept of Canada, it is a politically correct concept from Trudeau. The original concept was of two founding peoples.
If Canada hadn't agreed to be multicultural, the French and British would have kept fighting.
Europe is taking a hard look at a 'multicult' policy as they are now grappling with an influx of non-Western immigrants who come with vastly different values, many of them to do with women, showing little inclination to change.The problem now is how much should we accommodate in order to keep our social cohesion.
The Netherlands, among others are now finding out that it isn't working.
Potential immigrants are now required to watch a video in their home countries about Dutch life and places emphasis on equal treatment for women and gays.
We also have the instance in Ontario where a form of Sharia Law was requested, fortunately McGuinty said: "We believe that no matter where you come from or how long you've been here, we are all to be held accountable by the same law."
"Diverse societies work, but only if everyone lives by the same rules."
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oh, lord... not sharia law again.
anyone can go to the courts and file an application, no matter how ridiculous.
why don't you drop in there today and file that all muslims should be ejected from the country? You'd actually get a file number. If you pay a lawyer to help you fill it out it might even get to court.
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freetobeme
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koan;714606 wrote: I've never seen police at the polling stations. Mostly little old ladies that sacrifice their quilting bee night.
oh, lord... not sharia law again.
anyone can go to the courts and file an application, no matter how ridiculous.
why don't you drop in there today and file that all muslims should be ejected from the country? You'd actually get a file number. If you pay a lawyer to help you fill it out it might even get to court.
It's a valid point, and why would I want to file an application anywhere, one thing McGuinty had the guts to do was put a stop to it. Why don't you quit making back handed accusations and inferences. That's the problem with this type of discussion, when a liberal starts losing, out come the accusations....
They never agreed to multi-cult, they agreed to 'two founding nations', as in Two...
Agree with this
Where does it all stop if you give into everyone's request? Why is the West so determine to do away with our own traditions in the fear that we will offend others who come to our countries?
Everyone is welcome, but leave some of the bagage behing you and try to adapt a little instead of always asking us to change our ways to accomodate.
The onus should always be on the newcomer to adapt, not the other way around. Immigrants to any country are entitled to respect, courtesy and freedom from discrimination, nothing more. Assimilation lies with the newcomers, and it does them no favours encouraging them to be apart in their own enclaves.
oh, lord... not sharia law again.
anyone can go to the courts and file an application, no matter how ridiculous.
why don't you drop in there today and file that all muslims should be ejected from the country? You'd actually get a file number. If you pay a lawyer to help you fill it out it might even get to court.
It's a valid point, and why would I want to file an application anywhere, one thing McGuinty had the guts to do was put a stop to it. Why don't you quit making back handed accusations and inferences. That's the problem with this type of discussion, when a liberal starts losing, out come the accusations....
They never agreed to multi-cult, they agreed to 'two founding nations', as in Two...
Agree with this
Where does it all stop if you give into everyone's request? Why is the West so determine to do away with our own traditions in the fear that we will offend others who come to our countries?
Everyone is welcome, but leave some of the bagage behing you and try to adapt a little instead of always asking us to change our ways to accomodate.
The onus should always be on the newcomer to adapt, not the other way around. Immigrants to any country are entitled to respect, courtesy and freedom from discrimination, nothing more. Assimilation lies with the newcomers, and it does them no favours encouraging them to be apart in their own enclaves.
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freetobeme;714609 wrote: It's a valid point, and why would I want to file an application anywhere, one thing McGuinty had the guts to do was put a stop to it. Why don't you quit making back handed accusations and inferences. That's the problem with this type of discussion, when a liberal starts losing, out come the accusations....
I'm a hard core conservative.
I helped put Harper in office.
They never agreed to multi-cult, they agreed to 'two founding nations', as in Two...
Agree with this
The onus should always be on the newcomer to adapt, not the other way around. Immigrants to any country are entitled to respect, courtesy and freedom from discrimination, nothing more. Assimilation lies with the newcomers, and it does them no favours encouraging them to be apart in their own enclaves.
nothing more and nothing less.
asking a muslim woman to remove her veil is extremely disrespectful.
It does them no favours??
So you, and others that agree with you, know what's best for them and they should just do what you say?
I'm a Canadian too and if they want to adapt to my standards they should keep their veils on. I'd give up my vote before I'd take it off. That's because I know why they wear it and it doesn't scare me.
I'm a hard core conservative.
I helped put Harper in office.
They never agreed to multi-cult, they agreed to 'two founding nations', as in Two...
Agree with this
The onus should always be on the newcomer to adapt, not the other way around. Immigrants to any country are entitled to respect, courtesy and freedom from discrimination, nothing more. Assimilation lies with the newcomers, and it does them no favours encouraging them to be apart in their own enclaves.
nothing more and nothing less.
asking a muslim woman to remove her veil is extremely disrespectful.
It does them no favours??
So you, and others that agree with you, know what's best for them and they should just do what you say?
I'm a Canadian too and if they want to adapt to my standards they should keep their veils on. I'd give up my vote before I'd take it off. That's because I know why they wear it and it doesn't scare me.
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The strangest part of this situation is that, of all the provinces in Canada, Quebec's elections are pretty stable. The Bloc wins.
It does make sense that they are the first to try introducing the law against veils as they are pretty darn unsociable with the other cultures. Not sure of the current status but there was a lot of unhappiness in the past that shop owners would get fined for printing English on their signage. Everything had to be in French only.
There are a lot of causes to spend money fighting. It really annoys me to see government resources being wasted on the stupid stuff.
It does make sense that they are the first to try introducing the law against veils as they are pretty darn unsociable with the other cultures. Not sure of the current status but there was a lot of unhappiness in the past that shop owners would get fined for printing English on their signage. Everything had to be in French only.
There are a lot of causes to spend money fighting. It really annoys me to see government resources being wasted on the stupid stuff.
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RedGlitter
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koan;714465 wrote: You forgot the words "to me" on the end of that statement.
No, I didn't forget. I realize it's PC and "enlightened" to respect and tolerate, but that stops at blatant ignorance for me. Cutting off parts for simply stealing is ignorant and despicable to most thinking people.
It's a very hard and thin line to walk, this issue. We don't want to disregard anyone's religious ideals but yet if we make allowances for some then should we not do it for all? Who's to say I shouldn't be allowed to wear a Planet of the Apes mask while I vote? After all, I may be a member of the Church of Bob,and who's to say that's not a legit religion?
If we allow this veil stuff in the name of faith or culture, then what do we do when people come to Canada or the US and want to have FGM done to their daughters? That's arguably a terrible thing to do but it is undeniably a part of some peoples' culture and even their religion.
Where should we draw our line?
No, I didn't forget. I realize it's PC and "enlightened" to respect and tolerate, but that stops at blatant ignorance for me. Cutting off parts for simply stealing is ignorant and despicable to most thinking people.
It's a very hard and thin line to walk, this issue. We don't want to disregard anyone's religious ideals but yet if we make allowances for some then should we not do it for all? Who's to say I shouldn't be allowed to wear a Planet of the Apes mask while I vote? After all, I may be a member of the Church of Bob,and who's to say that's not a legit religion?
If we allow this veil stuff in the name of faith or culture, then what do we do when people come to Canada or the US and want to have FGM done to their daughters? That's arguably a terrible thing to do but it is undeniably a part of some peoples' culture and even their religion.
Where should we draw our line?
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drumbunny1
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I agree with RedGlitter...if a country has a law...then a person needs to abide by it. If that law so happens to be that the person has to identify themselves FULL FACED...then that person needs to take the veil off...or don't vote...True it might sound silly to some people..but like Red said...where do you draw the line? It should be drawn sometime.
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freetobeme
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How much is 'reasonable accommodation', or maybe we should just sacrifice secularism to the alter of multicult. and political correctness?
While we do respect other cultures and enjoy many different aspects of them, not all cultures/customs are of equal benefit to Canada, some are positively ugly and of no value to Canada at all - should we accommodate some of them them and allow women to be second class citizens - should we allow gays to be executed etc. etc.
Should we be for instance, in favour of a caste system, and we certainly don't respect Syria's legal system (just ask Mahar) - or maybe we should allow female circumcision.
There is a case out west where they think that a hijab obstructed a driver's vision and contributed to a school bush crash - in accommodating the driver did we take an unacceptable risk - or was it just limited driving experience with a school bus?
So, what we have and have to examine, are the implications of an influx of non-Western people who arrive here with vastly different values, in particular to do with women and who have zero inclination to change or adapt to our more secular and liberated society.
Part of our aversion to the veil is that IMO we see it as a symbol of oppression, and sometimes a political symbol, or maybe this is all a culmination of so much 'accommodation' that there is a difficulty in maintaining our own culture, language, and traditions.
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While we do respect other cultures and enjoy many different aspects of them, not all cultures/customs are of equal benefit to Canada, some are positively ugly and of no value to Canada at all - should we accommodate some of them them and allow women to be second class citizens - should we allow gays to be executed etc. etc.
Should we be for instance, in favour of a caste system, and we certainly don't respect Syria's legal system (just ask Mahar) - or maybe we should allow female circumcision.
There is a case out west where they think that a hijab obstructed a driver's vision and contributed to a school bush crash - in accommodating the driver did we take an unacceptable risk - or was it just limited driving experience with a school bus?
So, what we have and have to examine, are the implications of an influx of non-Western people who arrive here with vastly different values, in particular to do with women and who have zero inclination to change or adapt to our more secular and liberated society.
Part of our aversion to the veil is that IMO we see it as a symbol of oppression, and sometimes a political symbol, or maybe this is all a culmination of so much 'accommodation' that there is a difficulty in maintaining our own culture, language, and traditions.
visit me here at: http://www.friendshipgarden.easyfreeforum.com/
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