gypsys the last people that it is ok to hate

Secret_Santa_2006 · Post by **Secret_Santa_2006** » Sat Dec 23, 2006 7:53 pm

Come and see me some time, Pinky :sneaky:

and we can discuss your debt of gratitude. Mrs C is usually out Fridays.

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Sat Dec 23, 2006 8:17 pm

:yh_bigsmi Secret Santa, how did you know about Tuscany??! I'm crazy about it and if I never travel anywhere else in my life, I have plans to go there one day! HMM.....you must be someone who really knows me...

I know just who I would bring along too! Thanks for thinking of me!! :-4

Hugh Janus · Post by **Hugh Janus** » Sat Dec 23, 2006 8:29 pm

OK, I'll say it. Gypppo's Are a blot on the landscape of the UK. I am not talking about true romanys.

I am talking about the travelling Irish, Scruffy, Cant be arsed, Robbing, thieving, Illegal dumping, Camp where we loike. Leave it in a mess, GYPPO'S.

I will spell it out for the OP "Jesse".

I am talking about the bum Irish travelling community that think the world owes them a living. I am talking about the Bum irish travelling peoples that think they have a right to infest a patch of land and when they are removed by the baillifs, leave behind a cleaning bill that would make your eyes water.

True Romanies would never do such things. However people get confused about true romanys and the "Tinkers."

You never actually said where you are from though, did you jesse b?

So tell me Jesse, Are you a Tinker, or a True Romany? This is not racist, this is a fact finding tour. So, C'mon then Jesse. Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy?

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Sat Dec 23, 2006 8:45 pm

RedGlitter;495295 wrote: I've heard you say that before Accountable but I don't remember ever coming across what you mean by that. History and culture, I agree, do not make a race of people. But how does ethnicity not make a race? Or maybe it's better to start at the beginning and ask you what do you consider a race? What words would you use instead when the issue comes up?

And I believe you may have me on your ignore list so if you don't answer me would someone be so kind as to point my question out to Accountable???
:wah: I'm not ignoring you.

I want to eradicate the term "race" from our lexicon, as it regards anything except speed. Some think race equals ethnicity, while others think race is equivalent to species. Since it's not real, but an arbitrary idea created by Man, I think it's a useless term at best and harmful at worst.

When speaking of the inhumanity of Man against Man, I think ethnicity and bigotry is more than adequate.

Lulu2 · Post by **Lulu2** » Sat Dec 23, 2006 8:47 pm

YOu're right, of course, Accountable. "Race" is a construct...an artificial way to distinguish one human from another. Strip off the skin/remove the pigment, and we're all identical enough to make the concept of "race" unnecessary.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Sat Dec 23, 2006 8:49 pm

Lulu2;495383 wrote: YOu're right, of course, Accountable. "Race" is a construct...an artificial way to distinguish one human from another. Strip off the skin/remove the pigment, and we're all identical enough to make the concept of "race" unnecessary.
or even untrue.

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Sat Dec 23, 2006 9:29 pm

Secret_Santa_2006;495310 wrote: Ho Ho Ho

I'm bringing gifts for all of you

Pinky - another week in Paris, France, with any FGer of your choice (applications should be sent care of GoodSanta)

Red Glitter - a week in Tuscany, Italy, with any FGer of your choice (applications as above)

SnoozeControl - airline tickets to Australia to frolic gaily in the surf with your aussie mates.

Accountable - a week in Hawaii

Happy Christmas!!!

"K.Snyder - A big, heapen, steamin pile of Cow sh*!. Get to the back of the line!"

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Sat Dec 23, 2006 9:52 pm

Accountable;495380 wrote: :wah: I'm not ignoring you.

I want to eradicate the term "race" from our lexicon, as it regards anything except speed. Some think race equals ethnicity, while others think race is equivalent to species. Since it's not real, but an arbitrary idea created by Man, I think it's a useless term at best and harmful at worst.

When speaking of the inhumanity of Man against Man, I think ethnicity and bigotry is more than adequate.

Hmm. Ok! I'll mull this over. I've never used race in a bad way but considering your explanation, I'll think about replacing it.

abbey · Post by **abbey** » Sun Dec 24, 2006 12:36 am

Lulu2;495270 wrote: Glitter...some of us have just been accused of making statements "tarring everyone with the same brush." It's simply not true. I'm not sure what more discussion you want to see here....go back and read what's been said.

It was just a statement, not directed at any gardeners.

Pinky;495302 wrote: If I decided to be a gypsy would you all hate me because some of my fellow travellers aren't considerate? Believe me, I've considered it.
Maybe i should have put it like that.:yh_peace

theia · Post by **theia** » Sun Dec 24, 2006 1:13 am

I worked with someone for ten years who was of "true Romany" lineage. His father was the last of the line to live in a caravan and to travel the roads. My colleague showed me old photos of the vans which were beautiful and which were maintained to the highest standard...sadly few remain as it was customary to burn them when their owner died or when the Romany way of life was relinquished. I learned a lot about the Romany way of life and its culture. It bore little resemblance to that of "tinkers" and "new age travellers."

weeder · Post by **weeder** » Sun Dec 24, 2006 4:31 am

This is a fascinating topic. Like many my visions of gypsies were all from stories I heard as a child. I do remember poor little Shirley Temple being sold to the Gypsies by her evil step mother. I often refer to myself as leading a gypsy life style. The label is exciting colorful and alluring. Living free to travel, unencumbered ny too many posessions. People with flashing black eyes, beautiful hair a love for music and a connection to spiritual insights. Im thrilled to learn these people actually exist. As for leaving garbage behind... I guess we have gypsies living in my apartment complex here in Virginia. I think the residents are white, black, hispanic, German, Irish, Itallian, Russian and Greek. Man, do many of them leave a mess. They often sneak out during the night also... when they cant pay the rent.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Sun Dec 24, 2006 8:50 am

jesse b;495603 wrote: dont know about US law but under uk law romany gypsys are diff race

and are (should) be protected by law against racist acts commet
imo, No group deserves government protection against bigoted acts, and definitely not against bigoted comment. Laws restricting assault against individuals or individual defamation are adequate, imo. If we protect individuals, groups are protected.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Sun Dec 24, 2006 10:12 am

jesse b;495702 wrote: so by your way of logic if i wanted to call people niggers spick chink greaser

paki wog the list go on

it ok by you
It's not okay. It's legal, or should be. There's a big difference. You shouldn't call for something to be illegal simply because it offends you. You're an adult now, ostensibly. You can't go running to Papa every time somebody calls you names.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Sun Dec 24, 2006 2:19 pm

jesse b;495882 wrote: well hate to tell ya it is illegal my freind

all who beleive racism is ok is either a fool or a biggot They're all bigots, by definition. Most are probably fools, too.

jesse b wrote: or maybe ya right hile hilter guess ya are the master race

but i beleive that all are equalNo, you obviously don't. I'm sorry you decided to find insult in my posts. If you read them again, especially in the context of the hundreds of other posts I've written on the subject, you will realize I hold the idea of Individual higher than any so-called "race". I do indeed believe individuals are equal, and should not receive special consideration simply because they can identify themselves as part of a group, be it "race", nationality, religion, or gender.

Lulu2 · Post by **Lulu2** » Sun Dec 24, 2006 2:31 pm

Psssst....Accountable. I think you're talking to the wind....

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Sun Dec 24, 2006 2:54 pm

Lulu2;495991 wrote: Psssst....Accountable. I think you're talking to the wind....
I'm not so sure, but it's still safer than peeing into the wind.

Lulu2 · Post by **Lulu2** » Sun Dec 24, 2006 2:57 pm

................. or spitting!

abbey · Post by **abbey** » Sun Dec 24, 2006 5:34 pm

jesse b;racism is wrong in any way96076 wrote: the point is that to the world racism is illegal gypsy (romany)i

TO ALL A MERRY XMAS be you freind or foe

remember what its all about he died for us

fron jes a proad gypsy
Merry Xmas Jesse b x

theia · Post by **theia** » Sun Dec 24, 2006 5:38 pm

abbey;496094 wrote: Merry Xmas Jesse b x

And a Happy Christmas from me too, Jesse b :-6

Singh-Song · Post by **Singh-Song** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 12:50 pm

the point is that to the world racism is illegal gypsy (romany)is a race in its own right

therefor hated towards them is racism therefor is illegal

hitler hated another race the world did no accept this

sadam hated another race the world did not accept this

the taliban hated anothere race the world did not accept this

bin lardin hated snother race the world did not accept this

when we lay down and accept hatred in any way racism be it verbal or phsyical in the end the world will not accept this

with great strenth comes great responsibity

the stong will act to protect the weak

racism is wrong in any way

Where do I begin? Try Algeria, Sudan, Democratic republic of Congo, Indonesia, Sri Lanka, IRAQ & AFGHANISTAN- The fact is, the diplomatic world will always turn a blind eye until the prospect of leeching either financial profit or votes from ethnic minorities turns its head. The strong only act to protect their investments; great strength means the ability to do nothing, because conflicts in such resource-poor nations are 'beneath them'. But the fact is that racism will always be inevitable, because of the concept of race itself. People who see themselves as members of a race or religion will always discriminate towards other members, and against those who aren't. The only difference is that the Romany Gypsy community in the UK is smaller, and still self-confined to the extent that most U.K residents know virtually nothing about it. Once they widen their ties with other communities, the racism will fade away into near insignificance...

SuzyB · Post by **SuzyB** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 12:56 pm

Singh-Song;654033 wrote: Where do I begin? Try Algeria, Sudan, Democratic republic of Congo, Indonesia, Sri Lanka, IRAQ & AFGHANISTAN- The fact is, the diplomatic world will always turn a blind eye until the prospect of leeching either financial profit or votes from ethnic minorities turns its head. The strong only act to protect their investments; great strength means the ability to do nothing, because conflicts in such resource-poor nations are 'beneath them'. But the fact is that racism will always be inevitable, because of the concept of race itself. People who see themselves as members of a race or religion will always discriminate towards other members, and against those who aren't. The only difference is that the Romany Gypsy community in the UK is smaller, and still self-confined to the extent that most U.K residents know virtually nothing about it. Once they widen their ties with other communities, the racism will fade away into near insignificance...

I don't agree with that at all, we are asked our ethnic background and religion in most things from school forms to work application forms, I know my race and religion as I'm sure everyone does, that in no way means I discriminate against others.

Carl44 · Post by **Carl44** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 1:25 pm

my father was born in one of these in a field about 3 miles from where i live now ,i must say its a lifestyle i'd find hard to live ,but i dont dislike other races just because people are of that race

Carl44 · Post by **Carl44** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 1:54 pm

Pinky;654071 wrote: Oh wow!!! D'ya know what? I think it must be a lovely life. I'd love to travel in one of those for a while to see how I got on.

Every now and again, there's a couple stop up the road from me, they tie the horses up, make a fire and they look like they're having a great time!

to be honest as a kid it was not great ,no running water ,no tv no friends every one hating you with a passion just coz you lived in a caravan ,it did not bother my dad as he was used to it but my mother who was as normal as you it was hell ,if we went into the local shops people used to whisper in voices so that you could hear ,its those dirty gypsies better keep an eye open for them they would steal the eyes out of your head if you dont watch them ,the hurt on my mums face still haunts me today ,now days of course no one hates me coz i'm a gypsy i live in a house people hate me coz i'm a p1zz taking moron

SuzyB · Post by **SuzyB** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 1:56 pm

Pinky;654071 wrote: Oh wow!!! D'ya know what? I think it must be a lovely life. I'd love to travel in one of those for a while to see how I got on.

Every now and again, there's a couple stop up the road from me, they tie the horses up, make a fire and they look like they're having a great time!

My Aunt Bessie lived in a gypsy wagon, scared the life out of me when my Mum took me to meet her, I was only about 5, Aunt Bessie had hardly any teeth and was sat on the steps smoking a pipe.

Singh-Song · Post by **Singh-Song** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 2:03 pm

In general, when people look for social interaction, they look for people they can relate with- which is why you're always going to have racial discrimination, sexual discrimination, earnings bracket discrimination. If an Afro-American man walks into a pub where the majority are White, he's going to cluster with the few blacks who are there, based solely on race, whether consciously or not. You ask a group of nursery children who've never met each other before to form groups on their own, they're always going to segregate themselves into boys and girls, Whites, Asians, Africans... The concept of race itself is racist. We're all humans, there's less genetic difference between different races of humans than there is between breeds of horses. But while active racism can be stamped out, the kind of passive racism I'm talking about doesn't stand a change of being purged out until the dominant, most populous ethnic group on Earth is 'Mixed'.

Bill Sikes · Post by **Bill Sikes** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 2:07 pm

SuzyB;654037 wrote: we are asked our ethnic background and religion in most things from school forms to work application forms

Questions asked as above are intrinsically racist.

Bill Sikes · Post by **Bill Sikes** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 2:15 pm

Singh-Song;654090 wrote: In general, when people look for social interaction, they look for people they can relate with- which is why you're always going to have racial discrimination, sexual discrimination, earnings bracket discrimination.

I somewhat agree with that.

Singh-Song;654090 wrote: If an Afro-American man walks into a pub where the majority are White, he's going to cluster with the few blacks who are there, based solely on race, whether consciously or not.

However, IME that is not the case. I have been in situations where my race was barely represented in a social setting, although several were there, and felt no need to "cluster" with them.

Singh-Song;654090 wrote: You ask a group of nursery children who've never met each other before to form groups on their own, they're always going to segregate themselves into boys and girls, Whites, Asians, Africans...

At that stage, it seems to me that groups form on a sex basis above all else. Take two children of each race, one of each sex. Let them play. I will bet you that they will segregate primarily on grounds of sex.

Singh-Song;654090 wrote: The concept of race itself is racist.

Hear, hear.

Singh-Song;654090 wrote: ll humans, there's less genetic difference between different races of humans than there is between breeds of horses. But while active racism can be stamped out, the kind of passive racism I'm talking about doesn't stand a change of being purged out until the dominant, most populous ethnic group on Earth is 'Mixed'.

I'm not sure at all about. I will leave you to your thoughts on horses, etc., which I disagree with. Consider this, though - people of every (?) race have historically looked upon "outsiders" badly - even when such "outsiders" are of their own "race". How about that?

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 3:26 pm

Bill Sikes;654091 wrote: Questions asked as above are intrinsically racist.

Not necessarily. Often they're used for research purposes.

Racism sucks, true, but I think it's silly to pretend a person doesn't belong to a certain ethnicity or to deny there are different ones, calling that evolved. It's to where we cannot even take *pride* in who/what we are anymore.

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Sun Jul 08, 2007 3:01 pm

Pinky;654071 wrote: Oh wow!!! D'ya know what? I think it must be a lovely life. I'd love to travel in one of those for a while to see how I got on.

Every now and again, there's a couple stop up the road from me, they tie the horses up, make a fire and they look like they're having a great time!

I cannot remember if I've posted these before but I think it must sum up the problems you'd find :-

Moving On Song - Ewan Maccoll

Born in the middle of the afternoon

In a horsedrawn wagon on the old A5

The big 12-wheelers shook my bed

"You can't stop here", the policeman said,

"You'd better get born in someplace else

So move along, get along,

Move along, get along,

Go! Move! Shift!"

Born in the tattie-howking time

In an auld bow tent near a tattie field

The fairmer said, "The work's aa done

It's time that ye was movin on"

Born on a common near a building site

Where the ground was rutted by the trailer's wheels

The local people said to me

"You'll lower the price of property"

Born at the back of a blackthorn hedge

When the white hoarfrost lay all around

No eastern kings came bearing gifts

Instead the order came to shift

Winter's sky was filled with stars

But one shone brighter than the rest

The wise men came so stern and strict

And brought the order to evict

Wagon, tent or trailer born

Last month, last year or in far-off days

Born here or a thousand miles away

There's always men nearby who say,

BTS · Post by **BTS** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 12:54 am

[Local Time: 08:54 AM

Local Date: 07-09-2007

quote=abbey;496094 Merry Xmas Jesse b x

Merry Xmas Jesse b x