That's sad.

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Bill Sikes
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Post by Bill Sikes »

Couple in Beachy Head suicide jump with son in rucksack named - Telegraph
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Odie
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Post by Odie »

Bill Sikes;1198305 wrote: Couple in Beachy Head suicide jump with son in rucksack named - Telegraph


indeed it is.
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Post by Oscar Namechange »

Daily Express | UK News :: Beachy Head plunge couple are named
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Post by Victoria »

Awful their grief must have been so intense.

I hope that the press will allow any remaining family to grieve in peace and privacy.
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Post by Odie »

Victoria;1198334 wrote: Awful their grief must have been so intense.

I hope that the press will allow any remaining family to grieve in peace and privacy.


I just can't imagine how much grief they would have gone through to give up their own lives.



the press always has to be there.......just to ruin lives.
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Post by kazalala »

This was just on the news on telly.. so tragic,, :-1:-1:-1




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Post by Sunshine »

I just read this. Oh how sad. When I read about the sack with the toys, I broke down and cried. I can hardly imagine the heartbreak the parents must have felt.
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Post by Oscar Namechange »

Odie;1198353 wrote:

the press always has to be there.......just to ruin lives. Don't be ridiculous.... it's nothing to do with the press. What do you think there is a pack of Fleet Street hacks waiting at the bottom of the cliff every day waiting for jumpers? For the record..... in this country, when police are called, it is the police that will give a report to the press. The press are there to report accidents and the like..... how on earth are they runing lives after two people have killed themselves?
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Post by Odie »

perhaps you should of read what I had quoted...........it had nothing to do with the cliff.:rolleyes:



Awful their grief must have been so intense.

I hope that the press will allow any remaining family to grieve in peace and privacy.





go harass someone else and leave me alone!:-5:-5:-5
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Post by Odie »

Sunshine;1198397 wrote: I just read this. Oh how sad. When I read about the sack with the toys, I broke down and cried. I can hardly imagine the heartbreak the parents must have felt.


oh my god, wasn't that just unbelievable?:-1
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Post by Oscar Namechange »

Odie;1198410 wrote: perhaps you should of read what I had quoted...........it had nothing to do with the cliff.:rolleyes:



Awful their grief must have been so intense.

I hope that the press will allow any remaining family to grieve in peace and privacy.





go harass someone else and leave me alone!:-5:-5:-5 So because a poster disgree's with you, you think your being harrassed? I did read what you wrote and you said 'the press ruining lives'. How are they ruining lives? They are reporting on a tragic incident as they do every day with other tragic incidents. As for allowing the remaining family to grieve in peace...... trust me, with our press, this will be old news by tomorrow.
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Post by Oscar Namechange »

Odie;1198353 wrote: I just can't imagine how much grief they would have gone through to give up their own lives.



the press always has to be there.......just to ruin lives. Oh i beg your pardon Odie, only i was under the impression you wrote this.
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Post by Odie »

oscar;1198442 wrote: Oh i beg your pardon Odie, only i was under the impression you wrote this.


omg..........I knew you had to come back!:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl

it has to do with the family living in peace now so they can grieve, hopefully away from the press!:-5:-5:-5

what part haven't you understood?:rolleyes:
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Post by Oscar Namechange »

Odie;1198447 wrote: omg..........I knew you had to come back!:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl

it has to do with the family living in peace now so they can grieve, hopefully away from the press!:-5:-5:-5

what part haven't you understood?:rolleyes:
You came back !!!!!! :yh_rotfl
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Bill Sikes
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Post by Bill Sikes »

Sunshine;1198397 wrote: When I read about the sack with the toys


Ditto. A very rough deal for those parents.
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Post by flopstock »

If he was pronounced dead at 8, by a physician, I don't understand ..



Were they just left alone at the home with the dead body of their child? Is that normal?
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Post by along-for-the-ride »

What saddens me is that this man and woman were filled with such dispair and hoplessness, that they believed that they just couldn't go on as a couple. So they ended their own lives.
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Post by Odie »

along-for-the-ride;1198625 wrote: What saddens me is that this man and woman were filled with such dispair and hoplessness, that they believed that they just couldn't go on as a couple. So they ended their own lives.


that's what is so hard to imagine, as they're is hope.
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Post by flopstock »

along-for-the-ride;1198625 wrote: What saddens me is that this man and woman were filled with such dispair and hoplessness, that they believed that they just couldn't go on as a couple. So they ended their own lives.




and to have packed up his toys..:-1
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Post by Oscar Namechange »

flopstock;1198618 wrote: If he was pronounced dead at 8, by a physician, I don't understand ..



Were they just left alone at the home with the dead body of their child? Is that normal?
I think the little boy was dying of meningitis and sent home to die in peace as there was no more the hospital could do for him. It went from there after he died at home.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
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Post by Chockygirl »

flopstock;1198618 wrote: If he was pronounced dead at 8, by a physician, I don't understand ..



Were they just left alone at the home with the dead body of their child? Is that normal?

I wondered the same thing as well?

Didn't sound right to me either.

The story is just so overwhelmingly sad.

And the bag of toys just made it so much sadder.:-1
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Post by Victoria »

The reason I mentioned the press leaving the family alone was because having been through the scene of having a family member commit suicide in a public place I know what can happen.

First it appears in the press as a simple report and then the 'family friends'come out of the woodwork getting quoted in newspapers adding to the anguish of direct relatives. Before you know it people are taking photos of the scene, your house nosing around at the funeral ect ect.

Its difficult enough without all of that.
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Post by Oscar Namechange »

Beachy Head suicide: First picture of Sam Puttick, 5, whose meningitis death sparked family's fatal jump | Mail Online

The poor little boy was paralysed from the neck down from a car crash when he wa very young.
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Post by Odie »

Victoria;1198770 wrote: The reason I mentioned the press leaving the family alone was because having been through the scene of having a family member commit suicide in a public place I know what can happen.

First it appears in the press as a simple report and then the 'family friends'come out of the woodwork getting quoted in newspapers adding to the anguish of direct relatives. Before you know it people are taking photos of the scene, your house nosing around at the funeral ect ect.

Its difficult enough without all of that.




This is very true as they want all the facts. Its never just a simple report.

Plus which was horribly to read, that little boy was also paralyzed with his other medical conditions.

but what really bothers me ....no coroner pronounces someone dead...and leaves the body at the home.....they are automatically taken to a morgue or funeral home.

so there's tons more stuff still to come....
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Post by kazalala »

Odie;1198908 wrote: This is very true as they want all the facts. Its never just a simple report.

Plus which was horribly to read, that little boy was also paralyzed with his other medical conditions.

but what really bothers me ....no coroner pronounces someone dead........and leave the body at the home.....they are automatically taken to a morgue or funeral home.

so there's tons more stuff still to come....


we can have our dead at home with us here sometimes Odie,,, and i dont know about now but even years ago,, we were allowed to take home a deceased baby to say goodbye,,, to give them a bit more time with them:thinking: It wouldnt have been a coronor ,, it would have been organised just for the doctor to come out and pronounce the death as an officialdom,, then they maybe could have been left for a while,, as the baby was sent home with them from hospital to die peacefully at home.




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In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends.

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Post by Oscar Namechange »

Odie;1198908 wrote: but what really bothers me ....no coroner pronounces someone dead...and leaves the body at the home.....they are automatically taken to a morgue or funeral home.

Not if they have only just passed away at home. When anyone dies at home, you have to phone the police and doctor to have them pronounced dead to get a death certificate. Coroners and funeral home staff don't hang around people's houses waiting for people to die. They only come out when they get a phone call to say that a person has died. It's likely that the moment the little boy died, they did not contact anyone and just planned the suicide before the authorities could take the childs body away.
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Post by Oscar Namechange »

kazalala;1198913 wrote: we can have our dead at home with us here sometimes Odie,,, and i dont know about now but even years ago,, we were allowed to take home a deceased baby to say goodbye,,, to give them a bit more time with them:thinking: It wouldnt have been a coronor ,, it would have been organised just for the doctor to come out and pronounce the death as an officialdom,, then they maybe could have been left for a while,, as the baby was sent home with them from hospital to die peacefully at home.
You just said what i said....... are you following me Mrs? :wah:
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Post by kazalala »

oscar;1198917 wrote: You just said what i said....... are you following me Mrs? :wah:


sorry must have ben posting at the same time:o




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In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends.

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Post by Oscar Namechange »

kazalala;1198918 wrote: sorry must have ben posting at the same time:o Great minds do think alike :wah:
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Post by Sunshine »

oscar;1198916 wrote: Not if they have only just passed away at home. When anyone dies at home, you have to phone the police and doctor to have them pronounced dead to get a death certificate. Coroners and funeral home staff don't hang around people's houses waiting for people to die. They only come out when they get a phone call to say that a person has died. It's likely that the moment the little boy died, they did not contact anyone and just planned the suicide before the authorities could take the childs body away.
I am a bit confused. If the boy was pronounced dead before the suicide, if it were in the states, someone from the rescue squad or police department, would have stayed until the person was taken to the morgue or the funeral home. Never is the body left at the site unattended here. Maybe I read it wrong. :confused:
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Post by Bill Sikes »

kazalala;1198913 wrote: we can have our dead at home with us here sometimes Odie


AFAIK if someone dies at home and a death certificate is issued, then the next-of-kin deal with matters. Dead people do not belong to the state.
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Post by flopstock »

Sunshine;1199021 wrote: I am a bit confused. If the boy was pronounced dead before the suicide, if it were in the states, someone from the rescue squad or police department, would have stayed until the person was taken to the morgue or the funeral home. Never is the body left at the site unattended here. Maybe I read it wrong. :confused:


That's what threw me on the story. The notion that the doctor shows up, says the child is dead and then leaves. It made me wonder if it was just a case of things being handled differently in other countries.
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Post by Oscar Namechange »

flopstock;1199042 wrote: That's what threw me on the story. The notion that the doctor shows up, says the child is dead and then leaves. It made me wonder if it was just a case of things being handled differently in other countries. Here, even after the Doc has turned up and written the death certificate, we can keep loved one's at home until the time of the funeral. Years ago, most bodies were collected from the home by the funeral directors on the day of the funeral.
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Post by kazalala »

flopstock;1199042 wrote: That's what threw me on the story. The notion that the doctor shows up, says the child is dead and then leaves. It made me wonder if it was just a case of things being handled differently in other countries.


yes thats about right Floppy,,, when my mum in law passed,, a doctor came out and certified her dead,,, which they knew was coming,, as she had been made comfortable at home to die there with ehr family round her. But once th doctor had been out ,,, then he left us with her again and it was up to my FIL to start ringing the relevant people.




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Post by kazalala »

oscar;1199049 wrote: Here, even after the Doc has turned up and written the death certificate, we can keep loved one's at home until the time of the funeral. Years ago, most bodies were collected from the home by the funeral directors on the day of the funeral.


yes ,, we can still have them at home in either an open casket or closed until the day of the funeral.




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In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends.

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Post by Odie »

kazalala;1198913 wrote: we can have our dead at home with us here sometimes Odie,,, and i dont know about now but even years ago,, we were allowed to take home a deceased baby to say goodbye,,, to give them a bit more time with them:thinking: It wouldnt have been a coronor ,, it would have been organised just for the doctor to come out and pronounce the death as an officialdom,, then they maybe could have been left for a while,, as the baby was sent home with them from hospital to die peacefully at home.


I have heard they do this in other countries......but wouldn't they have to be embalmed?
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Post by kazalala »

Odie;1199105 wrote: I have heard they do this in other countries......but wouldn't they have to be embalmed?


not neccessarily odie. In a lot of cases we are only talking hours,,, maybe overnight,,, or maybe a few days ,, its not always neccessary i dont think:thinking:




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Post by Odie »

kazalala;1199113 wrote: not neccessarily odie. In a lot of cases we are only talking hours,,, maybe overnight,,, or maybe a few days ,, its not always neccessary i dont think:thinking:


but the smell?
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Post by Oscar Namechange »

Odie;1199145 wrote: but the smell? Rigormortis sets in fairly soon after death. It is only once rigormortis has passed, does the body begin to decay and smell. That process can take up to a week. No...... if a funeral is planned within a week, there is no need for embalming.

My father laid for 10 days before burial and there certainly was no embalming, no decay and no smell.
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Post by Odie »

perhaps this will help, as to why I asked, why they don't embalm?



Moment of Death:

1} The heart stops

2} The skin gets tight and grey in color

3} All the muscles relax

4} The bladder and bowels empty

. . . .4a - Men will get an erection. No, I don't know when, exactly. I really didn't feel like calling up the local mortuary and asking this. And there's people on my mailing list I could have asked, I bet, but it's kind of weird popping up and asking that. No pun intended. I'm not sure my parents know what erections are, so I can't ask them. I did read that this was one of the reasons hangings were so well attended by women, back in the old.days. Big Laffs, seeing the Hung, hung.

5} The body's temperature will typically drop 1.5 degrees F. per hour unless outside environment is a factor. The liver is the organ that stays warmest the longest, and this temperature is used to establish time of death if the body is found within that time frame.

* After 30 minutes:

6} The skin gets purple and waxy

7} The lips, finger- and toe nails fade to a pale color or turn white as the blood leaves.

8} Blood pools at the lowest parts of the body leaving a dark purple-black stain called lividity

9} The hands and feet turn blue

10} The eyes start to sink into the skull

* After 4 hours:

11} Rigor mortis starts to set in

12} The purpling of the skin and pooling of blood continue

13} Rigor Mortis begins to tighten the muscles for about another 24 hours, then will reverse and the body will return to a limp state.

* After 12 hours:

14} The body is in full rigor mortis.

* After 24 hours:

15} The body is now the temperature of the surrounding environment

16} In males, the semen dies

17} The head and neck are now a greenish-blue color

18} The greenish-blue color continues to spread to the rest of the body

19} There is the strong smell of rotting meat

20} The face of the person is essentially no longer recognizable

* After 3 days:

21} The gases in the body tissues form large blisters on the skin

22} The whole body begins to bloat and swell grotesquely. This process is speeded up if victim is in a hot environment, or in water

23} Fluids leak from the mouth, nose, eyes, ears and rectum and urinary opening

* After 3 weeks:

24} The skin, hair, and nails are so loose they can be easily pulled off the corpse

25} The skin cracks and bursts open in many places because of the pressure of Internal gases and the breakdown of the skin itself

26} Decomposition will continue until body is nothing but skeletal remains, which can take as little as a month in hot climates and two months in cold climates. The teeth are often the only thing left, years and centuries later, because tooth enamel is the strongest substance in the body. The jawbone is the densest, so that usually will also remain.
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Post by Oscar Namechange »

Odie;1199279 wrote: perhaps this will help with why I am asking why they don't embalm:





Moment of Death:

1} The heart stops

2} The skin gets tight and grey in color

3} All the muscles relax

4} The bladder and bowels empty

. . . .4a - Men will get an erection. No, I don't know when, exactly. I really didn't feel like calling up the local mortuary and asking this. And there's people on my mailing list I could have asked, I bet, but it's kind of weird popping up and asking that. No pun intended. I'm not sure my parents know what erections are, so I can't ask them. I did read that this was one of the reasons hangings were so well attended by women, back in the old.days. Big Laffs, seeing the Hung, hung.

5} The body's temperature will typically drop 1.5 degrees F. per hour unless outside environment is a factor. The liver is the organ that stays warmest the longest, and this temperature is used to establish time of death if the body is found within that time frame.

* After 30 minutes:

6} The skin gets purple and waxy

7} The lips, finger- and toe nails fade to a pale color or turn white as the blood leaves.

8} Blood pools at the lowest parts of the body leaving a dark purple-black stain called lividity

9} The hands and feet turn blue

10} The eyes start to sink into the skull

* After 4 hours:

11} Rigor mortis starts to set in

12} The purpling of the skin and pooling of blood continue

13} Rigor Mortis begins to tighten the muscles for about another 24 hours, then will reverse and the body will return to a limp state.

* After 12 hours:

14} The body is in full rigor mortis.

* After 24 hours:

15} The body is now the temperature of the surrounding environment

16} In males, the semen dies

17} The head and neck are now a greenish-blue color

18} The greenish-blue color continues to spread to the rest of the body

19} There is the strong smell of rotting meat

20} The face of the person is essentially no longer recognizable

* After 3 days:

21} The gases in the body tissues form large blisters on the skin

22} The whole body begins to bloat and swell grotesquely. This process is speeded up if victim is in a hot environment, or in water

23} Fluids leak from the mouth, nose, eyes, ears and rectum and urinary opening

* After 3 weeks:

24} The skin, hair, and nails are so loose they can be easily pulled off the corpse

25} The skin cracks and bursts open in many places because of the pressure of Internal gases and the breakdown of the skin itself

26} Decomposition will continue until body is nothing but skeletal remains, which can take as little as a month in hot climates and two months in cold climates. The teeth are often the only thing left, years and centuries later, because tooth enamel is the strongest substance in the body. The jawbone is the densest, so that usually will also remain. I doubt your source there..... anyone who has had a body laid at home for a week before the funeral will know different.
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Post by Victoria »

Embalming is not done in this country and burial is within 5 days. (by law)

Some people look ok, my father just looked very small like a dolly, but some look awful my son saw his work mate after just 4 days and said it was like dawn of the dead, nasty.

I think it depends on the person and the manner of death as well as outside influence.temp ect
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Post by kazalala »

oscar;1199283 wrote: I doubt your source there..... anyone who has had a body laid at home for a week before the funeral will know different.
yes thats true,, and even if the body is kept at the funeral home people can go and see the deceased if they wish ,,, to say goodbye etc.

Victoria;1199430 wrote: Embalming is not done in this country and burial is within 5 days. (by law)

Some people look ok, my father just looked very small like a dolly, but some look awful my son saw his work mate after just 4 days and said it was like dawn of the dead, nasty.

I think it depends on the person and the manner of death as well as outside influence.temp ect


thats also true i think Victoria ,,, the manner of death:thinking:




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Post by Odie »

Victoria;1199430 wrote: Embalming is not done in this country and burial is within 5 days. (by law)

Some people look ok, my father just looked very small like a dolly, but some look awful my son saw his work mate after just 4 days and said it was like dawn of the dead, nasty.

I think it depends on the person and the manner of death as well as outside influence.temp ect


Thanks Victoria, that explains why the coroner left the child at home.
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That's sad.

Post by Oscar Namechange »

Odie;1199492 wrote: Thanks Victoria, that explains why the coroner left the child at home. In Britain we do not have Coronors. The article clearly states the Doctor left the home after pronouncing the boy dead. Only deaths in suspicious circumstances in this country are visited by Pathologists and forensics.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
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Bill Sikes
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That's sad.

Post by Bill Sikes »

oscar;1199510 wrote: In Britain we do not have Coronors.


Coroners, post-mortems and inquests : Directgov - Government, citizens and rights
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Odie
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That's sad.

Post by Odie »

sorry, yes doctor..........just used to coroner's here.
Life is just to short for drama.
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Oscar Namechange
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That's sad.

Post by Oscar Namechange »

Bill Sikes;1199512 wrote: Coroners, post-mortems and inquests : Directgov - Government, citizens and rights Yes, but they don't go to the home of a natural death. The doctor goes to pronounce them dead. Yes, of course we have coroners. :wah: Sorry Bill, i've had one heck of a week here...... the brains not in gear yet.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon

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