American Soccer/European Football

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K.Snyder
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Post by K.Snyder »

It had seemed to me that MLS(Major League Soccer) in America was relatively dieing out, hence why I was seeing alot more Americans giving up on trying to make the MLS work and going overseas to Europe and playing over there.

It seems the MLS has made a very bold effort to try and get the MLS to work in the $250 million contract the Los Angelas Galaxy had given David Beckham...That's a desperation call if I have ever seen one.

http://sports.yahoo.com/sow/news;_ylt=A ... &type=lgns

They are playing the Wigan vs Chelsea game on right now, although it's almost over...Can't believe they would even bother showing that game over any other game, must not be another premiership game scheduled...Wigan is getting blown out 3-0.

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K.Snyder
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Post by K.Snyder »

Ahaha Ahaha!

Fulham got the equalizer.

http://www.premierleague.com/competitio ... id=2687635

McBride Scored his 7th of the year in the 59th minute...Not bad for an old man eh?
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Galbally
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Post by Galbally »

Well, we got beat by united (again) oh god, oh god, oh god, why do you hate us so????? Please let us win a game again, please, please, please.......:-1

Its tough being a villa fan, oh well.
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"



Le Rochefoucauld.



"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."



My dad 1986.
K.Snyder
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Post by K.Snyder »

Galbally;515410 wrote: Well, we got beat by united (again) oh god, oh god, oh god, why do you hate us so????? Please let us win a game again, please, please, please.......:-1

Its tough being a villa fan, oh well.


Hey, it could be worse,

you could be a Watford fan.
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Post by K.Snyder »

You were playing Man U, what do you expect?
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Galbally
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Post by Galbally »

K.Snyder;515430 wrote: Hey, it could be worse,

you could be a Watford fan.


Watford? URHGGGGH. I was a pseudo Charlton fan for a day last year, as we went to the valley for a game for the craic, it was fun, and you know what, it really is in a valley! :wah: Then I went to Anfield to see the Pool play with me Liverpool supporting mates for a laugh as well, and they were playing.....CHARLTON! We actually ended up in a lift in the Liverpool Radisson with about 6 of the Charlton players, their manager, and these 2 mentalist norwegian Pool fans who kept asking the Charlton players silly questions, like "I am stig, Would you preffer to play for liverpool?", of course being a Villa fan I laughed at them all. :wah:
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"



Le Rochefoucauld.



"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."



My dad 1986.
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Galbally
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Post by Galbally »

K.Snyder;515434 wrote: You were playing Man U, what do you expect?


Some justice in this world, thats all. :(
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"



Le Rochefoucauld.



"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."



My dad 1986.
K.Snyder
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Post by K.Snyder »

I was wandering what you guys thought about Beckham, going to the MLS...

Obviously it would be hard for anyone to pass up $250 Million dollars in just a five year contract...He will be making $50 Million dollars a year...
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Galbally
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Post by Galbally »

K.Snyder;515443 wrote: I was wandering what you guys thought about Beckham, going to the MLS...

Obviously it would be hard for anyone to pass up $250 Million dollars in just a five year contract...He will be making $50 Million dollars a year...


Well, I think for Beckham himself its obviously a great deal in terms of money and all that, as he is now the highest paid sportsman in history (not bad) in terms of the football, for a guy who has played with Man Utd, Real Madrid, and been Captain of England, his role now will be just to promote the sport in the USA, and whether thats really gonna make any difference I just don't know, because I don't live there, and I don't know how its gonna work out, I can't really see how its gonna change things because soccer is so down the list of sports in the US, so its a tough one, but in terms of money and publicity, and also now he gets to be in the one place in the world where he can walk down the street without getting mobbed, its pretty good really. His wife loves LA, and he like america as well, so I guess they are thinking about that as well. They get a very hard time of the press here, so they probably want a break from all that as well. I did see a bit of an interview he did on US TV last night, well at least the people seemed to understand his accent.
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"



Le Rochefoucauld.



"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."



My dad 1986.
K.Snyder
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Post by K.Snyder »

Galbally;515455 wrote: ...and also now he gets to be in the one place in the world where he can walk down the street without getting mobbed, its pretty good really. His wife loves LA, and he like america as well, so I guess they are thinking about that as well. They get a very hard time of the press here, so they probably want a break from all that as well. I did see a bit of an interview he did on US TV last night, well at least the people seemed to understand his accent.


Yeah, I hadn't thought about that...probably because I never have eaten with a golden spoon...

I do suppose you're right, with Soccer not being the most popular sport around hear he won't be having to break his way free through his own front yard any time he wants to go anywhere, but I am willing to bet there will still be alot of press around, if not by the popularity of the sport, by the sheer amount of the contract itself.
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Post by K.Snyder »

I have a question for the Premierships...How many teams are able to go on to the playoffs(that is if that's what you guys call it - I'm quite sure you guys have some sort of system leading up to the championship game)?
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Post by ShawnG »

K.Snyder;515479 wrote: I have a question for the Premierships...How many teams are able to go on to the playoffs(that is if that's what you guys call it - I'm quite sure you guys have some sort of system leading up to the championship game)?


The English sports system is completely different than the one we have here, K. Their league championship is decided by each team playing each other team twice- no playoffs, the team with the highest number of points wins. (1-draw 3=win) They also run a couple of cups at the same time as the season usually at midweek, or off weekends, so teams all participate in the FA cup and the League cup with all english teams (think Major league baseball, and all of the minor league teams combined, playing in a single elimination tournament) all of these competitions occur at the same time. In addition the top clubs in the premiership and the winners of the cups qualify for the two European Cups where they would play in a tournament throughout the season with other top clubs around europe. If that isn't enough, there often are exhibition matches during the season!

The coolest thing though is the promotion and relegation, if you are in the premiership, and you suck, you get dropped down to a lower league for the next season. in turn the top three teams in the lower division get promoted. this always gives you something to play for, unlike in american sports where the lower teams pack it in at a certain point, here you have to keep fighting, or you won't be in the league next season! (think about the New York Yankees having to play in AAA next year if they suck) It can be confusing coming from north america, but this system is really cool in practice.
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Post by K.Snyder »

ShawnG;515540 wrote: It can be confusing coming from north america, but this system is really cool in practice.


It sounds reasonable with the abundance of teams they have there...So then what you're saying is that there is no playoffs allowing for the top seeded teams to compete for the championship once they have proven they are in the top percentage of the league, and that the system can be comparable to that of the college football system we have here?

Actually it sounds exactly like the college system we have here, the only difference being, the premiership teams won't be forced to rebuild their teams upon a numerous amount of people leaving for the pros.
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Post by ShawnG »

K.Snyder;515546 wrote: It sounds reasonable with the abundance of teams they have there...So then what you're saying is that there is no playoffs allowing for the top seeded teams to compete for the championship once they have proven they are in the top percentage of the league, and that the system can be comparable to that of the college football system we have here?

Actually it sounds exactly like the college system we have here, the only difference being, the premiership teams won't be forced to rebuild their teams upon a numerous amount of people leaving for the pros.


Not really, there is always a league champion, It's the team with the best regular season record. there is also the FA cup Winner, The League cup winner, the European Champions league winner, and the Eufa cup winner. The aim for teams like Chelsea, Arsenal ManU etc. is to win multiple titles in the same season. So you will hear them talk about "winning the double" or the "treble" for a number of titles & cups in that particular year. They just don't "reshuffle the deck" for the league championship, the way we do it here. It's actually more like Rec league Softball than anything else :) they are clubs who try to win multiple competitions all happening at roughly the same time, it's more informal than the rigid league structure we have.
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Post by K.Snyder »

ShawnG;515559 wrote: they are clubs who try to win multiple competitions all happening at roughly the same time, it's more informal than the rigid league structure we have.


Well, if alot of them hate the teams that win all of the time as much as I hate the Yankees I can definitely understand why...
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Post by Galbally »

OK, I think that shawn has described it pretty well. You have the Football league, divided into 4 divisions, with the top being the Premiership, then the 1st division, then the 2nd division, and the 3rd, each having roughly 20-25 teams in each league. The season goes from ausgust to may, and the team from each league that collects the most points wins the league, simple as, its a points race.

The top 4 teams in the Premiership are then allowed to play in the European Champions League, which is a league of all the best teams in Europe (but you have to be at the top of your home league to qualify). This is the real action, and includes all the best European teams, if you win this, you are at the top of the heap for that year. Its played concurrently with the rest of the football, but on weeknights, not the weekend. The bottom 3 teams from each domestic english league are relegated to the next league lower down, its the equivalent of football death. The team at the bottom of division 3 are relegated from the leagues all together and have to go into the little silly leagues, and 3 come up, so you always have a chance for glory or abject failure.

Then at the same time there is the FA Cup which involves all of the teams from the 4 leagues playing each other in a knock out competition. (for example Chelsea drew 1-1 the other day with Wycombe Wanderers in the FA Cup, even though they play in different divsions). Then there is also the League Cup, which is like the FA cup, but less important for some reason. The winners of each tournament go on to play in the European Cup winners Cup, which is again, a knockout competition for those who have won domestic tournaments. This may all sound a bit complex, but in reality its very easy to follow, and its exciting as well as nail biting as your team can get relegated, and everyone knows that relelgation is the worst thing that can ever happen.

A lot of the posters here from britain are big soccer heads as most men are, and plenty of girls as well. For example.

Galbally-Aston Villa

Uncle Kram-Aston Villa

Arnoldlayne-Chelsea

Abbey-Man Utd

Hamster-Leeds United

Diretic-Arsenal (he is an aussie, but people from all over the world support premier league teams)

The worlds biggest current teams are Man Utd, Real Madrid, AC Milan, Bayern Munich, Liverpool, Arsenal, Barcelona, Juventus, Inter Milan, Chelsea, Axaj, PSV, Benfica, and quite a few others that are massive clubs but don't quite have the pedigree of these teams, or do but not the current sucess and fans. These teams have fans in every part of the world, eg, the most Famous Englishman in the world by far is not Tony Blair but David Beckham, and now its Wayne Rooney (who is not quite so photogenic) is the new superstar along with people like Ronaldinio, Zidane, Raul, etc etc.) These people are famous everywhere in the world from Bagdad to Bejing and back to London, its pretty mental when you think about it.
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"



Le Rochefoucauld.



"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."



My dad 1986.
K.Snyder
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Post by K.Snyder »

Galbally;515576 wrote: OK, I think that shawn has described it pretty well. You have the Football league, divided into 4 divisions, with the top being the Premiership, then the 1st division, then the 2nd division, and the 3rd, each having roughly 20-25 teams in each league. The season goes from ausgust to may, and the team from each league that collects the most points wins the league, simple as, its a points race.

The top 4 teams in the Premiership are then allowed to play in the European Champions League, which is a league of all the best teams in Europe (but you have to be at the top of your home league to qualify). This is the real action, and includes all the best European teams, if you win this, you are at the top of the heap for that year. Its played concurrently with the rest of the football, but on weeknights, not the weekend. The bottom 3 teams from each domestic english league are relegated to the next league lower down, its the equivalent of football death. The team at the bottom of division 3 are relegated from the leagues all together and have to go into the little silly leagues, and 3 come up, so you always have a chance for glory or abject failure.

Then at the same time there is the FA Cup which involves all of the teams from the 4 leagues playing each other in a knock out competition. (for example Chelsea drew 1-1 the other day with Wycombe Wanderers in the FA Cup, even though they play in different divsions). Then there is also the League Cup, which is like the FA cup, but less important for some reason. The winners of each tournament go on to play in the European Cup winners Cup, which is again, a knockout competition for those who have won domestic tournaments. This may all sound a bit complex, but in reality its very easy to follow, and its exciting as well as nail biting as your team can get relegated, and everyone knows that relelgation is the worst thing that can ever happen.


Ok, I think I can understand that...

but my next question is, what happens to the players of the teams that happen to get relegated?

What if there is a really good player on that team and doesn't want to have to climb back through the ladder with that team?...Or is that just something that those players keep an eye out for in their contracts and try and limit an excessive amount of years? Also, I suppose any team has the right to sign that player then right?
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Post by K.Snyder »

K.Snyder;515570 wrote: Well, if alot of them hate the teams that win all of the time as much as I hate the Yankees I can definitely understand why...


I just realized that some of you may not know who the "Yankees" are, and might think I'm referring to the yankees as in Americans and that's not the case...

The Yankees are an MLB baseball team over here that can always be counted on as being a contender in the league championship...sort of like Chelsea is to the Premierships...

I can't stand them because they win all of the time...
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Post by ShawnG »

K.Snyder;515587 wrote: Ok, I think I can understand that...

but my next question is, what happens to the players of the teams that happen to get relegated?

What if there is a really good player on that team and doesn't want to have to climb back through the ladder with that team?...Or is that just something that those players keep an eye out for in their contracts and try and limit an excessive amount of years? Also, I suppose any team has the right to sign that player then right?


A lot of the best players have "relegation clauses" in thier contracts, So if a team gets dropped, then he gets released, or they have to sell him (another difference, way too complicated to get into, basically players are bought and sold by teams rather than traded)
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Post by ShawnG »

Another thing that is completely unamerican in nature is to see a full, balls-out champagne celebration by a team who finished fourth from last in the division, and avoided relegation. :)
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Post by ShawnG »

Hamster;515605 wrote: Duiretic supports Arsenal??? I'm shocked!! I'm gonna have to stop talking to him now! :-3


I guess that would include me too, as an American Arsenal fan. I will also add that I became an Arsenal fan in the dreary, offside-trap years, and not the "winning everything with frenchmen" era.
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Post by ShawnG »

For some bizarre reason, I also support Wolves somewhat too, I always find myself checking their website.
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Post by dubs »

Good explanations from Shawn and Dr G both, I'd also like to point out that there are severe financial penalties involved with dropping out of the top flight of English Football. In that instance, having top stars to sell on, can be a life saver, to the smaller club! Oh! Dr G, you forgot...

Jimbo..Tottenham Hotspur..

Dubs.. Tottenham Hotspur..:)




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K.Snyder
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Post by K.Snyder »

I root for Fulham fc...

I've been a McBride fan since his days at Columbus...

but I will probably still root for Fulham after he retires, because they still have Bocanegra, and Dempsey.
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Post by Galbally »

Hamster;515605 wrote: Duiretic supports Arsenal??? I'm shocked!! I'm gonna have to stop talking to him now! :-3


God yeah, he is a big gunners fan. So are arsenal your pet hate? Birmingham City are mine, and I suppose United, dunno why, though I respect them as a team, Chelsea kinda give me the dropsy as well, and liverpool, well they are alright, Arsenal I don't mind, Leeds, well Johnny Giles played for them so they can't be all bad! :wah:
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"



Le Rochefoucauld.



"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."



My dad 1986.
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Post by dubs »

Shawn! Tell me you just didn't say you were a...*Gag* Gooner.....:thinking:




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Post by Galbally »

dubs;515624 wrote: Good explanations from Shawn and Dr G both, I'd also like to point out that there are severe financial penalties involved with dropping out of the top flight of English Football. In that instance, having top stars to sell on, can be a life saver, to the smaller club! Oh! Dr G, you forgot...

Jimbo..Tottenham Hotspur..

Dubs.. Tottenham Hotspur..:)


Sorry, I couldn't think there for a minute, of course spurs, did you win today, we got beat again by united, its embaressing really. :-1
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"



Le Rochefoucauld.



"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."



My dad 1986.
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Galbally
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Post by Galbally »

ShawnG;515614 wrote: For some bizarre reason, I also support Wolves somewhat too, I always find myself checking their website.


Thats kinda cool, I like the way Amercian soccer fans pick up on the less glamourous teams, its kinda cool. :)
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"



Le Rochefoucauld.



"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."



My dad 1986.
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Galbally
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Post by Galbally »

K.Snyder;515626 wrote: I root for Fulham fc...

I've been a McBride fan since his days at Columbus...

but I will probably still root for Fulham after he retires, because they still have Bocanegra, and Dempsey.


This is also quite cool. Not that I am a fulham fan myself, but I respect your choice! McBride was and is still a pretty good player.
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"



Le Rochefoucauld.



"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."



My dad 1986.
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Post by dubs »

Spurs play Sunday, against Newcastle!.......We'll kick their arses....They talk funny!:wah:




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Post by Galbally »

dubs;515651 wrote: Spurs play Sunday, against Newcastle!.......We'll kick their arses....They talk funny!:wah:


Why Aye Lad! You london boys, so cheeky! :wah:
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"



Le Rochefoucauld.



"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."



My dad 1986.
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Post by K.Snyder »

Here's a link to all of the leagues and teams in England.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fo ... in_England
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Post by Galbally »

Hamster;515657 wrote: Well being a Yorkshire lass I have to hate Man U....Its mandatory!! But also I object to Arsenal's (and others) policy of spending their way to the cup. What happens to young English players trying to break through?

Do you know Leeds had several academies here in Yorkshire that had to shut own due to lack of numbers?


I think we are in the same boat hammy, Villa have a good youth policy, but they lose a lot of players at an early age to the big 4, and it sucks, but then its up to the clubs to do something about it themselves. I suppose with this new American owner we may start doing some proper business again, I hope so. I know its pretty tough for leeds at teh moment, its a cruel game sometimes.
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Le Rochefoucauld.



"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."



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Post by dubs »

Galbally;515654 wrote: Why Aye Lad! You london boys, so cheeky! :wah:


Best of it is, I'm a born and bred Midlander, always supported Spurs since I was a kid, and used to travel down to home games, when I was younger. I've been to the Villa a few times though, It's less than twenty miles from where I live!:)




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Post by K.Snyder »

I have another question about the leagues in England...

How in the world can you have that many teams and leagues and still have them all be profitable?

Seems to me like the lower leagues wouldn't get enough fan support to make it all worth while.
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Post by K.Snyder »

Galbally;515665 wrote: I know its pretty tough for leeds at teh moment, its a cruel game sometimes.


Yeah, if they're not careful, they may get dropped to league one.
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Post by K.Snyder »

Hamster;515671 wrote: Most of the players in the lower leagues have other jobs...they don't get paid anywhere near enough K.

Also we are seeing clubs starting to go bust regularly now.

Leeds United used to be in the Premiership and they nearly became insolvent. This was the first case of a top league club almost going under. The first of many in my opinion.


Sounds like one big scouting project for the FA.
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Post by dubs »

K.Snyder;515677 wrote: Sounds like one big scouting project for the FA.


Lower league players are, part time, semi-professional, and they play a)cos they love the game b)scouts from the big teams regularly attend games. So yeah you're right, there's a big scouting operation going on!..:)




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Post by K.Snyder »

Hamster;515681 wrote: Its a sore point with me K. The government here refuses to fund these academies that would find the talent needed.

It's now becoming a "have" and "have-not" premiership in that those teams that have money can buy the foreign players. Those that have not just can't compete.

It will start to show sooner or later. Maybe not in this world cup but in the next.

It is also already showing in the quality of athletes we can bring to the olympics. Athletes are unable to compete as they simply have no money for training, travel and accomodation etc.


I don't think money alone will dictate whether or not England will produce star players to compete in the World Cup...The will and passion alone for the sport over there can probably be compared to any other country in the world...

I think playing in those leagues alone is enough to create a well respected World Cup team, foreign or not...those players will get better as the competition increases, it's just the competitive nature in all athletes, trust me I know...I played basketball when I was a kid against my brother and his friends with them being three years older than I was, and when I grew older, I turned out to be better than them and had hope in going to a big time college...

Money is not going to dictate having a good soccer team...look at some of the other countries that don't have a relatively high capital rate and their success in the World Cup...Rocky IV. :wah:

You have nothing to worry about. ;)
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Post by Carl44 »

Diuretic;515701 wrote: Me and Arsenal go waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay back :wah:




nooooooooo say it aint soo:-1 :-1

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