Homosexuality taught to children as natural acceptable?

K.Snyder
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Homosexuality taught to children as natural acceptable?

Post by K.Snyder »

yaaarrrgg;1266631 wrote: I wasn't thinking about it on that level. I see two different groups: one an accepted majority, and the other a somewhat historically persecuted minority. The majority has been intolerant of the minority. If this wasn't the case, tolerance wouldn't be an issue.

But I see your point. Perhaps "less intolerance from heterosexuals" would be a better choice of words. I don't know that gay people are all that intolerant of heterosexual people.


Well thank you. It's nice to not be called prejudiced for completely ridiculous misunderstandings.

And "less intolerance from heterosexuals" is vehemently something I encourage and have said so from the start.

None the less, I'll go eat my greasy fried chicken without fear I might be sent to "hell"

Still doesn't mean I'd wish it to be taught that greasy fried chicken is healthy because it isn't, but I LOVE it all the same!
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crazygal
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Homosexuality taught to children as natural acceptable?

Post by crazygal »

My son is only 11 and I've always told him that I don't care whether or not he is straight or gay. I don't see it as a choice and I feel so sorry for those that are made to feel terrified to tell their family and friends if they're gay for fear of being rejected. Of course as his age he said no way would he ever be gay and I'd prefer him not to be and to have to go through the stigma (my daughter too of course) but they're are my children in the end, no matter was their sexuality.
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Homosexuality taught to children as natural acceptable?

Post by M.A.S »

I think Homosexuality is not natural action or what ever it is. Children should know the straight way In life especially about sex.
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Homosexuality taught to children as natural acceptable?

Post by spot »

M.A.S;1340639 wrote: I think Homosexuality is not natural action or what ever it is. Children should know the straight way In life especially about sex.I'm quite sure I'd think exactly the same if I'd been born and brought up in your society. Those cultural values are far more influential than anything else, just as the religion each of us is born into. It's far healthier for there to be a large range of different cultures than for us all to think the same, that way we can learn and culturally evolve.
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Homosexuality taught to children as natural acceptable?

Post by CinnamonBear »

M.A.S;1340639 wrote: I think Homosexuality is not natural action or what ever it is. Children should know the straight way In life especially about sex.


It's far from natural. I can't imagine any adult talking to little children about deviant behavior just to inform them it happens in a small percentage of society. Let them be children; don't hurt the children for Heaven's sake! There will be plenty of time in their young lives to expose them to what the world wants them to know about. Protect them while they're young and let them be. Amen!

One voice, one view. Deal. :)
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crazygal
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Homosexuality taught to children as natural acceptable?

Post by crazygal »

So do you think that people choose to be gay? Some go through hell and I bet none when they realise are happy about it at first.
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Homosexuality taught to children as natural acceptable?

Post by koan »

Not sure how it protects children to present a narrow view of the world around them so when they encounter different behaviour in themselves or others they fear it. Just sounds like a proposal to continue the bigoted thinking and intolerance that has resulted in much needless death.
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Homosexuality taught to children as natural acceptable?

Post by recovering conservative »

crazygal;1340693 wrote: So do you think that people choose to be gay? Some go through hell and I bet none when they realise are happy about it at first.


Man, I am getting sick of conservatives today! These people are clowns! They just keep circling back to the same unfounded claims. Yeah, every guy is just waiting to sin -- like Ted Haggard....with drugs and a male prostitute! Do these people seriously believe that someone is gay because they chose to be gay? Or are they just lazy and don't want to deal with the issue?

Btw I thought you said it right in an earlier comment, about accepting children the way they are. When my kids were younger, I'm not sure how I would have dealt with having a child who might be gay....mine are likely past the age where sexual orientation is unsettled. If parents were able to love and accept their children regardless of how they turn out, we wouldn't be having these problems like gay teen suicides....not to mention the problems of drug and alcohol abuse by those who are rejected by their families.

When some self-righteous, self-assured conservatives are faced with the challenge of having one of their children come out and say they are gay, some will reject them ( like Alan Keyes and Operation Rescue's Randall Terry did a few years back), but every so often there are some who remove the straightjacket of their simplistic ideology, and decide they would rather accept their children the way they are, than lose them forever.
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Homosexuality taught to children as natural acceptable?

Post by Ahso! »

recovering conservative;1340715 wrote: Man, I am getting sick of conservatives today! These people are clowns! They just keep circling back to the same unfounded claims. Yeah, every guy is just waiting to sin -- like Ted Haggard....with drugs and a male prostitute! Do these people seriously believe that someone is gay because they chose to be gay? Or are they just lazy and don't want to deal with the issue?Ignorance is bliss. Its a monkey see, monkey do approach to understanding in order to feel like a team member and, every team must have an adversary or problem to solve. Its a group survival mentality. What these religious rank and file people fail to realize is that they and their collective are completely predictable to any serious student of Darwinian theory. They're not religious nearly as much as they are unconscious evolutionists who are attempting to exclude what they see as 'bad' cells (members of society) to the whole organism (group). Its called multi-level group selection. But their focus is wrong, instead of worrying about natural differences in others they should be more concerned with their lying, adulterous, perverted leadership and advocates.

The fate of their group is not positive, its merely a matter of time before it slowly self destructs which is what we're witnessing with the mass exodus of members, poor recruitment statistics and outright rejection by more and more people even to the point of hostility. they're being confronted with the probability of group extinction and they're panicking.
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Homosexuality taught to children as natural acceptable?

Post by CinnamonBear »

crazygal;1340693 wrote: So do you think that people choose to be gay? Some go through hell and I bet none when they realise are happy about it at first.


Yes, I do believe that. There is no gay gene and God calls it an abomination, no matter how many kick, scream and holler trying to fight science, their conscience and God.

My personal belief is based on that --- gut instinct, science and God's law. There's no way God would call it an abomination if He didn't give us all free will to make choices. As He did. In the same way let's look at pedophiles. They also say they are born that way and attracted to deviant behavior and some choose to act on their choice in the same way homos do. Arsonists do the same. Serial killers do the same. The list goes on. It's all deviant behavior that started with a choice. And it's very sad on the outside looking in. Granted, some are trying to convince themselves more than anyone else and you can usually spot them when they start to foam and get angry at an opposing view. (Or twist it to suit their needs.) Most likely, the opposing view is a reflection of their own conscience which they are trying to stifle. Thus, the anger.

gee, God doesn't want to lose one little lamb (soul) AND as long as a person is alive they have a chance. And choices to make. There's the mercy, there's the grace ... as long as a person has a breath left they have a chance at eternity.

And if I may go a step further, I shall. Mostly I feel sorrow for those who blatantly go against God's will, especially those who boast of it. Or those who have the need to "fit in" - even on a silly message board. It makes me shudder for their soul. God sees all. He sees silence, He sees desperation to fit in and He sees those who speak on His behalf.

Finally, I believe I have the right and the need to speak my belief too. None of us are perfect, that's a given. I've never been a conformist and don't belong to any particular church. I enjoy many of them. I could be in a group of a million and express my opposing view concisely and politely and feel proud of it. I also know that we all answer alone on our appointed judgment day. I'm relieved, expecting and grateful for, "Well done, good and faithful servant."

Again, one voice, one view. Amen and g'morning.
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Homosexuality taught to children as natural acceptable?

Post by spot »

CinnamonBear;1340742 wrote: God sees all. He sees silence, He sees desperation to fit in and He sees those who speak on is behalf. Then He's a damnable rogue, isn't He, this imagined onmipotent travesty you've chosen to threaten us with, if He's all-powerful and refuses to intervene before it's too late to save those He subsequently chooses to burn in hell. He needs to be stopped.

Yes, by all means, anyone inclined to can worship this deity you've described but... why in God's name would anyone want to? What you're offering is something so monstrous, smug, all-powerful, self-satisfied, hate-filled and totally amoral that everybody with a spine would take up arms against it. Worship? You're kidding.
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Homosexuality taught to children as natural acceptable?

Post by Ahso! »

Again CB, will you point us to the 'straight' gene then? Please educate us in your science.
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Homosexuality taught to children as natural acceptable?

Post by CinnamonBear »

spot, you didn't intentionally misquote me, right? That sentence of mine you quoted is not how I typed it. ;)
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Homosexuality taught to children as natural acceptable?

Post by Snowfire »

CinnamonBear;1340791 wrote: spot, you didn't intentionally misquote me, right? That sentence of mine you quoted is not how I typed it. ;)


Quoted by CinnamonBear

God sees all. He sees silence, He sees desperation to fit in and He sees those who speak on His behalf.




That's copied direct from your post and matches spots exactly. Is there some underlying message we have missed to make you assume its a misquote ?
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Homosexuality taught to children as natural acceptable?

Post by CinnamonBear »

copied from spot's post -- my post, misquoted. Surely just a mistake, I'm sure.

Re: Homosexuality taught to children as natural acceptable?

Quote Originally Posted by CinnamonBear View Post

God sees all. He sees silence, He sees desperation to fit in and He sees those who speak on is behalf.



No, Snow, it's not exact. Look again. He left off the capital H in the word "His" ... second word from the end. thank you.

*edit - your quote of mine was correct, his wasn't.
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Homosexuality taught to children as natural acceptable?

Post by Ahso! »

Well now I'm certain she is just turned on. Spot, you devil you. Do you always get the girls?
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Homosexuality taught to children as natural acceptable?

Post by spot »

CinnamonBear;1340804 wrote: No, Snow, it's not exact. Look again. He left off the capital H in the word "His" ... second word from the end. thank you.I expect someone who takes Instant Notification of thread posts can check whether you left the H off and went back subsequently to correct your spelling. I can't, but someone might if we're lucky. It would be an odd and utterly meaningless thing for me to have tampered with. It's given you your excuse for deflection though, you needn't go back and actually deal with anything I wrote. The threads all mount up in the end though.
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Homosexuality taught to children as natural acceptable?

Post by CinnamonBear »

ahhh, spot, I'm sure it can be checked. I figured it simply happened when you chose to pick one sentence and got carried away in your haste and editing, etc.

The trash you wrote about God wasn't worth replying to, but misquoting me was.
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Homosexuality taught to children as natural acceptable?

Post by spot »

CinnamonBear;1340807 wrote: The trash you wrote about God wasn't worth replying to, but misquoting me was.Trash? Not at all, it's a very serious point. How can this imaginary omnipotent all-knowing God you describe possibly be considered good? It's impossible. For any reasonable definition of good, what you describe doesn't qualify. And you want other people to accept or adopt your belief? You're living in cloud-cuckoo land.
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K.Snyder
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Homosexuality taught to children as natural acceptable?

Post by K.Snyder »

I see that everyone seems to still veer toward the path of social intolerance as opposed to the original question.

Is it or is it not acceptable to teach children the literal details involved with homosexuality comparative to quite a significant proportion of individuals I've known to do the same in reference to heterosexual intercourse with their children?

What's so difficult about a very simple question?
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Homosexuality taught to children as natural acceptable?

Post by littleCJelkton »

K.Snyder;1340839 wrote: I see that everyone seems to still veer toward the path of social intolerance as opposed to the original question.

Is it or is it not acceptable to teach children the literal details involved with homosexuality comparative to quite a significant proportion of individuals I've known to do the same in reference to heterosexual intercourse with their children?

What's so difficult about a very simple question?


from learning what i did in my post, I believe that in order to properly teach something like this we probably will have to get a majority approval of what is fully understood about how ones sexuality(hetero, homo, bi) comes about if it's a choice(as some view), nature(as others view), or a bit of both.
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Homosexuality taught to children as natural acceptable?

Post by koan »

CinnamonBear;1340807 wrote: ahhh, spot, I'm sure it can be checked. I figured it simply happened when you chose to pick one sentence and got carried away in your haste and editing, etc.

The trash you wrote about God wasn't worth replying to, but misquoting me was.


You might be more concerned with the trash the people who wrote the OT came up with about God. It's quite horrid what they've done to His reputation.
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littleCJelkton
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Homosexuality taught to children as natural acceptable?

Post by littleCJelkton »

koan;1340911 wrote: You might be more concerned with the trash the people who wrote the OT came up with about God. It's quite horrid what they've done to His reputation.


I have used this link before but it is appropriat as it is a good Description of the OT I think

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Homosexuality taught to children as natural acceptable?

Post by koan »

wow. awesome link.

very thread appropriate :)
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littleCJelkton
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Homosexuality taught to children as natural acceptable?

Post by littleCJelkton »

koan;1340913 wrote: wow. awesome link.

very thread appropriate :)


Yeah it transitions nicely to being related to the original subjet of this post
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Homosexuality taught to children as natural acceptable?

Post by littleCJelkton »

Now back to the point of teaching sexuality (homo, bi, hetero). It got me to thinking at what point do we draw the line as to this aspect of sexuality is a choice and this is not. Is a person who only chooses to have sexual relations with someone of a different race doing so out of choice or out of a gene, harmone, and/or instinct. How about the woman who is only attracted to males with blue eyes, or the guy who is only attracted to red heads. How about people who perform Beastiality, Necrophilia, or peodophilia are these sexual attractions to (animals, the dead, the young) a choice, or something else?
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Homosexuality taught to children as natural acceptable?

Post by spot »

Here's a chap prepared to put his reputation on the line in order to better inform children.Swilley came out to his kids and his congregation. He said he knew he might risk everything, but the recent rash of gay teen suicides pushed him over the edge. “As a father, thinking about your 16, 17 year old killing themselves. I thought somebody needed to say something,” Swilley said through tears.

He says he's received support from many in his congregation, but at least one conservative Christian blog has called him sick, twisted, unclean and an instrument of the devil. “I know all the hateful stuff that’s being written about me online, whatever,” Swilley said. “To think about saving a teenager yeah, I'll risk my reputation for that.”

Megachurch Pastor Comes Out Of Closet - News Story - WSB Atlanta

There we are. Real people experiencing a real God in the real world. I tip my hat to you, Bishop Swilley.

Oh - the bit about whether people can be born gay or catch it later like a disease - "Swilley said he's known he was gay since he was little boy". That's relevant to what we've talked about here recently too.
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Homosexuality taught to children as natural acceptable?

Post by gmc »

What does it matter whether it is a life choice or genetic? If two consenting adults which to indulge then it's down to them. There are some things where it is reasonable for society to oppose and impose sanctions, paedophilia being one of the more obvious ones but it is surely not acceptable that some people feel they have the right to tell others how to conduct their sex lives. there are some who are prepared to accept their church has the right to tell them if and when they can have children and whether they should use contraceptives or not and it is their right to do so but most reasonable people draw the line at letting them impose their values on non-believers. Whether homosexuality is a choice or people are born that way it is surely wrong to allow prejudice and discrimination to be taught as being acceptable.

It got me to thinking at what point do we draw the line as to this aspect of sexuality is a choice and this is not. Is a person who only chooses to have sexual relations with someone of a different race doing so out of choice or out of a gene, harmone, and/or instinct.


There are still those who consider such relationships unnatural and justify their prejudice in the same manner. We've moved on from letting them dictate who people can have sex with when it comes to race and religion so why let then have their way with preaching discriminating against homosexuals? What or who gives them the right of it? if you won;t tolerate someone telling you how to live and what you can believe then you have no business trying to dictate to others.
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Homosexuality taught to children as natural acceptable?

Post by littleCJelkton »

[QUOTE=gmc;1342027

what you can believe then you have no business trying to dictate to others.


I am not trying to dictate anything only understand. Asking why the way this culture, or that culture, or this person or that person behave, is not the same as not tolerating the behaviors of said Cultures and/or people. In fact askign questions to gain information, I think allows for a better understanding and more tolerance of said culture/person. Instead of just labeling such behaviors a subject to taboo to have a reasonable conversation about.
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Homosexuality taught to children as natural acceptable?

Post by koan »

The push to educate children to tolerate homosexual preference, be it choice or not, is to reduce the number of teen suicides and help stop bullying behaviours. Anyone who is against that has a social disorder.
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Homosexuality taught to children as natural acceptable?

Post by gmc »

littleCJelkton;1342045 wrote: I am not trying to dictate anything only understand. Asking why the way this culture, or that culture, or this person or that person behave, is not the same as not tolerating the behaviors of said Cultures and/or people. In fact askign questions to gain information, I think allows for a better understanding and more tolerance of said culture/person. Instead of just labeling such behaviors a subject to taboo to have a reasonable conversation about.


I wasn't accusing you of anything it was just that bit of your post was pertinent. It seems to me that those who oppose such teaching object because they want to be able to impose their attitudes rather than have both sides given an airing. Not live and let live bit rather do as I say and believe the same as me.
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Homosexuality taught to children as natural acceptable?

Post by recovering conservative »

I haven't been paying attention to this thread; but this seems to be where it has gone off the rails:

littleCJelkton;1340907 wrote: from learning what i did in my post, I believe that in order to properly teach something like this we probably will have to get a majority approval of what is fully understood about how ones sexuality(hetero, homo, bi) comes about if it's a choice(as some view), nature(as others view), or a bit of both.

What sort of "majority approval" are you talking about? Do mean mob rule, or consensus of expert opinion? Because they are two, very different strategies, and on complex subjects, often have completely different results!
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Homosexuality taught to children as natural acceptable?

Post by recovering conservative »

littleCJelkton;1341387 wrote: Now back to the point of teaching sexuality (homo, bi, hetero). It got me to thinking at what point do we draw the line as to this aspect of sexuality is a choice and this is not. Is a person who only chooses to have sexual relations with someone of a different race doing so out of choice or out of a gene, harmone, and/or instinct. How about the woman who is only attracted to males with blue eyes, or the guy who is only attracted to red heads. How about people who perform Beastiality, Necrophilia, or peodophilia are these sexual attractions to (animals, the dead, the young) a choice, or something else?


Before you make an arguement of equivalency between homosexuality and unusual sexual behaviours, you need to demonstrate that they have common origins; and all cause harm -- otherwise it's a false comparison.

There is alot of expert opinion linking gender non-conformity in young children, with the later development of same-sex attractions after puberty; can you give me an example of children showing pre-pubescent early signs of developing sexual perversions like beastiality, necrophilia, or pedophilia? Most of what I've read on these subjects indicates that they are all caused by environmental circumstances, and have no connections with hormones, genes, brain development etc.. Nearly every case of pedophiles I've heard of shows that...well, first, they are overwhelmingly male, and they were sexually abused as children. Equivalent claims that homosexuals are made, and not born that way, is just part of a smear campaign that Christian and other religious fundamentalists have been carrying out for decades to excuse their ideology-driven inability to accept them on their own terms!
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Homosexuality taught to children as natural acceptable?

Post by littleCJelkton »

recovering conservative;1342100 wrote: I haven't been paying attention to this thread; but this seems to be where it has gone off the rails:

What sort of "majority approval" are you talking about? Do mean mob rule, or consensus of expert opinion? Because they are two, very different strategies, and on complex subjects, often have completely different results!


I will explain it this way

there are 5 people discussing what 1+1 equals

1 person says 1+1=1, another says 1+1=3

out of the 3 people left 2 of them agree with with the person that says 1+1=1 and the last person agrees that 1+1=3

so 3 out of the 5 people in this example believe 1+1 and 2 out of 5 beleive it is 3 so since 3 is more than to it is a majority.
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Homosexuality taught to children as natural acceptable?

Post by littleCJelkton »

recovering conservative;1342102 wrote: Before you make an arguement of equivalency between homosexuality and unusual sexual behaviours, you need to demonstrate that they have common origins; and all cause harm -- otherwise it's a false comparison.

There is alot of expert opinion linking gender non-conformity in young children, with the later development of same-sex attractions after puberty; can you give me an example of children showing pre-pubescent early signs of developing sexual perversions like beastiality, necrophilia, or pedophilia? Most of what I've read on these subjects indicates that they are all caused by environmental circumstances, and have no connections with hormones, genes, brain development etc.. Nearly every case of pedophiles I've heard of shows that...well, first, they are overwhelmingly male, and they were sexually abused as children. Equivalent claims that homosexuals are made, and not born that way, is just part of a smear campaign that Christian and other religious fundamentalists have been carrying out for decades to excuse their ideology-driven inability to accept them on their own terms!


Going back to the example I gave about majority of course 1+1 is not either 1 or 3, so it must first be concluded through logic and reasonableness what 1+1 equals and comprimise with the minority to get to 2 what 1 actuall is. So as what I get from what you say it sexuality should be taught in the forms of (hetero, Bi, and homo) as they are a combination of genes, harmones, brain development and enviromental circumstances. Where as, (pedophillia, necrophillia, and beastiallity) are the product of poor enviromental circumstances resulting in poor sexual desicions, leading to immoral sexual acts as they are acts not deemed acceptable by the majority of the society.

Note: I am not debating the moral justness or injustness of heterosexuality, homosexuality, or bisexuality/ peadophillia, necrophillia, or beastiallity. Just trying to get a better understanding of reason be it genes, harmones, brain development, or enviromental circumstantnces that bring about each.

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