“The UK Parliament is sovereign, the Scottish Parliament is not.”

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gmc
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“The UK Parliament is sovereign, the Scottish Parliament is not.”

Post by gmc »

Some of you may be aware there is a rather important case at the supreme court at the moment as to whether powers currently with the eu on matters that are devolved to the scottish parliament should be returned to that parliament - westminster has taken claim over them the crux of the case put by the uk government is that “The UK Parliament is sovereign, the Scottish Parliament is not.”

Leaving aside the scottish issue for the moment perhaps the most galling aspect of Lord Keen’s submission that the UK Parliament is sovereign is the present debacle of the emasculation of our elected representatives by a small government clique citing the alleged “sovereign” supremacy of a referendum which was legally only advisory and therefore supposedly subordinate to parliament, with a result where 63% of the electorate did not consent to Brexit, and which has been shown to have been achieved with a clear breach of campaign funding rules and dubious canvassing methods. If parliament is sovereign why do they not have the final say over brexit.

If you just watched the mainstream media you would think the referendum was binding - no one ever seems to point out the falsehood of the claim and that it was all done and dusted.
Clodhopper
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“The UK Parliament is sovereign, the Scottish Parliament is not.”

Post by Clodhopper »

Yeah, I know the referendum was advisory. I think all Remainers do and all brexters say it was binding or it's not democratic. It doesn't appear to matter because Parliament has been panicked into believing the result is in practical terms, binding. I just got a reply back from Goldsmith saying that NOT abiding by the ref result would lead to the rise of the far right (I'd emailed him saying the rise of the far right was worrying. He denied it was happening and didn't reply to the bit where I asked him to reassure me that he wasn't a member of the European Research Group. In other words he's part of the problem in a significant way).
The crowd: "Yes! We are all individuals!"

Lone voice: "I'm not."
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FourPart
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“The UK Parliament is sovereign, the Scottish Parliament is not.”

Post by FourPart »

Technically no referenda is binding. However, in this case both sides made a clear case that whatever the outcome they would abide with the result. In my view, such a pledge MAKES it binding.
Clodhopper
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Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 5:11 pm

“The UK Parliament is sovereign, the Scottish Parliament is not.”

Post by Clodhopper »

If the Leave campaign hadn't been found in breach of Election regs by the Commission and additionally referred to the Police, if it wasn't that Putin interfered in the election - even Goldsmith admitted that though claiming it was insignificant, if Banks and Wigmore (Leave campaign leaders and backers) had not one, or two or four meetings with Russian officials including the ambassador, but ELEVEN (that we know of so far), not to mention the casual illegality on the money front or the poison of Trump's support, then you might have a case.



Given the above in a referendum that came back 48/52, Leave has destroyed any mandate they may have had.
The crowd: "Yes! We are all individuals!"

Lone voice: "I'm not."
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FourPart
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“The UK Parliament is sovereign, the Scottish Parliament is not.”

Post by FourPart »

I currently have a Poll running on Facebook which asks "Regardles of whether you are Pro-Leave or Pro-Remain, if there were a 2nd Referendum held, would you vote any different to the way in which you voted last time"? The current status of that poll is at 98% No to 2% Yes. The Poll doesn't go into whether the ones that changed their minds were originally Leave or Remain. What is does demonstrate quite clearly is that a 2nd Referendum would be futile as the result is most likely to be much the same as last time, and then we get all of this over again.

I, for one, was not swayed by any of the campaigning. I had made my decision based on my observations of the corrupt nature of the EU since it began & the way it had always played the UK for a fool, with us blindly obeying all the rules whilest all the other Member States only obeyed them whenever it suited them to do so. The entire campaign, on both sides, was a disgrace. The Leave Campaign was found it had broken Electoral Rules because it overspent EU campaigning funds of £7m. The Remain Campaign, however, spent £9m on the Propaganda Booklet alone. The difference was that the funding for that didn't come from the EU funding. It was paid for by the UK Tax Payer. The Government made it look as if it was an "Information Booklet" published by the Electoral Commission, although they did also cover their backs by including, in very small print in a single line at the bottom of the back page that it was not. This means that 'Technically' they had not broken the law. The BBC was also incredibly biased towards being Pro-Remain. With most of the Campaigning, from all sides of the House, being so Pro-Remain, one has to wonder how representative the sitting MPs were really being of their constituents' wishes, as the result went totally in the opposite direction as one might have expected it to had any level of funding were to have made any difference.
gmc
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Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2004 9:44 am

“The UK Parliament is sovereign, the Scottish Parliament is not.”

Post by gmc »

FourPart;1520170 wrote: I currently have a Poll running on Facebook which asks "Regardles of whether you are Pro-Leave or Pro-Remain, if there were a 2nd Referendum held, would you vote any different to the way in which you voted last time"? The current status of that poll is at 98% No to 2% Yes. The Poll doesn't go into whether the ones that changed their minds were originally Leave or Remain. What is does demonstrate quite clearly is that a 2nd Referendum would be futile as the result is most likely to be much the same as last time, and then we get all of this over again.

I, for one, was not swayed by any of the campaigning. I had made my decision based on my observations of the corrupt nature of the EU since it began & the way it had always played the UK for a fool, with us blindly obeying all the rules whilest all the other Member States only obeyed them whenever it suited them to do so. The entire campaign, on both sides, was a disgrace. The Leave Campaign was found it had broken Electoral Rules because it overspent EU campaigning funds of £7m. The Remain Campaign, however, spent £9m on the Propaganda Booklet alone. The difference was that the funding for that didn't come from the EU funding. It was paid for by the UK Tax Payer. The Government made it look as if it was an "Information Booklet" published by the Electoral Commission, although they did also cover their backs by including, in very small print in a single line at the bottom of the back page that it was not. This means that 'Technically' they had not broken the law. The BBC was also incredibly biased towards being Pro-Remain. With most of the Campaigning, from all sides of the House, being so Pro-Remain, one has to wonder how representative the sitting MPs were really being of their constituents' wishes, as the result went totally in the opposite direction as one might have expected it to had any level of funding were to have made any difference.


So what you are saying is having seen the inability of successive British governments to defend our interests within the EU you now wish to pull out and leave everything totally up to a bunch of right-wing fascists who want to undo all the benefits we have received through membership of the EU. Once all the employment protection and health and safety laws have been thrown in the dustbin and the nhs is privatised perhaps then you will appreciate what is at stake here. Once all the inter european sharing of research and actual eu funding for scientific research in this country has gone and not been replaced perhaps you will still think it worthwhile. Once all the various car manufacturers have finally pulled out of the UK perhaps you will still think it worthwhile. To trade the perceived corruption of the eu for the corruption and incompetence of Westminster is not IMo a good bargain.

I have yet to hear anything positive that will result in ouir leaving. Perhaps the remain campai=gn would have been better to emphise all that we have gained from our membership over the years. We are supposedly the fifth largest economy but that is only because of our membership of the eu.

I'm fed up hearing how we will be able to do fantastic trade deals once we leave - who are these people who will be making these deals boris jihnston and jacob rees mogg? all our industrial leaders are all screaming how leaving the eu is a very very bad idea. You do not have a viable economy without industry and agriculture.

Scotland does not need england to be successful but you surely need us. Roll on indyref 2 and this time I think it will be a most emphatic yes.
Bruv
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“The UK Parliament is sovereign, the Scottish Parliament is not.”

Post by Bruv »

I tried to post these yesterday, but it wouldn't let me.....twice.

Anyway I think this bloke talks a lot of sense, but where was he pre Brexit ?



I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
Bruv
Posts: 12181
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2007 3:05 pm

“The UK Parliament is sovereign, the Scottish Parliament is not.”

Post by Bruv »

If posting is THAT easy I'll post the another one from him.

I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
Clodhopper
Posts: 5115
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 5:11 pm

“The UK Parliament is sovereign, the Scottish Parliament is not.”

Post by Clodhopper »

Good stuff. I think most brexiters will accuse him of being brainwashed, though.
The crowd: "Yes! We are all individuals!"

Lone voice: "I'm not."
gmc
Posts: 13566
Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2004 9:44 am

“The UK Parliament is sovereign, the Scottish Parliament is not.”

Post by gmc »

Things you won't see in the UK press.

AUOB Edinburgh march biggest pro-independence event in Scotland's history | The National

"AUOB Edinburgh march biggest pro-independence event in Scotland's history"

Quote box still not working.

One thing you might not appreciate this is not the snp organizing these events.
Clodhopper
Posts: 5115
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 5:11 pm

“The UK Parliament is sovereign, the Scottish Parliament is not.”

Post by Clodhopper »

I'm having a news holiday in general and a Brexit one in particular. Was very upset by the Tory conference and since really we still have Remain (just), no deal and bad deal all in play and likely will do until the last minute all I'm doing is making myself even angrier to no purpose. I can do no more to stop Brexit than I have done.

As you know, I think if we Brexit Scotland will leave the UK as a direct consequence. Both the people I know personally who voted for Brexit have changed their minds and now want a 2nd referendum. Fundamentally both were taken in by the Leave campaign: though they didn't believe the great claims that were made for the advantages ad so thought they hadn't been fooled, they were deceived into thinking the disadvantages weren't that serious and didn't realise it. The claims it was all Project Fear worked well for brexiters when of course it is increasing clear that claims about difficulties are in fact simply reality.



Aaand that's enough about Brexit. :) Been keeping a bit of an eye on Edinburgh in the Pro 14 since a free channel has popped up from apparently nowhere and is showing some of the games. Richard Cockerill is coach and I think most Tigers supporters have an affection for him and wish him well given his years at and commitment to the club. Also he says it as he sees it and that can cause some sputtering, even in Scotland, which is quite fun ;). The European competition starts this week and Edinburgh are playing Montpellier, coached by Vern Cotter, whose previous job was coaching Scotland and who are among the favourites for the title. Cockers has taken the pressure completely off his players and we'll see how they go.
The crowd: "Yes! We are all individuals!"

Lone voice: "I'm not."

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