Another european scandal

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Fri Jan 06, 2017 4:32 am

You won't see mentioned in the daily mail.

Typical Europeans coming over here to steal the benefits of owning our railways | The Independent

One thing I disagree with is that it ws bloody obvious what was going to happen tpo our railways and utilities if they were privatised. Our economy has been detroyed by right wing economics and a didain for any of the achievements of socialism and you lot down south hav just voted for more of the same. Margaret thatcher and tony blair who would yopu vote for as having done the most damage to the UK? Or mau-ybe that non entity david what's his name.

Post by **spot** » Fri Jan 06, 2017 4:47 am

Well done Mark Steel, always worth hearing.

The way to re-nationalize is to classify these essential industries non-dividend companies, cap executive pay at eight times the company average salary and ban bonuses, as payback for the snout-in-trough way they've behaved. That's the electric, gas, water, rail, high street banks, fibre, copper and mobile networks, with an option on supermarkets too if they keep generating obscene profits.

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Fri Jan 06, 2017 6:03 am

You lot down south.

Yep. We're all identical, vote the same think the same look the same. Everyone voted for brexit and we're just shouting at eachother for fun.

Has dementia struck or are you just being offensive?

edit: Good article though.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Fri Jan 06, 2017 6:07 am

It would be funny if it wasn't so blatantly true.

Meanwhile..........................lets blame the EU and Islamist threat for everything.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Fri Jan 06, 2017 11:48 am

Clodhopper;1505039 wrote: You lot down south.

Yep. We're all identical, vote the same think the same look the same. Everyone voted for brexit and we're just shouting at eachother for fun.

Has dementia struck or are you just being offensive?

edit: Good article though.

No offence intended just having a quiet rant and don't forget that to me newcastle and birminham are down south george osbournes northern powerhouse concept suggest it's not just arithmetic and economics he is useless at. I've been up north Wick is a great place to visit and dounreay where they put the first nuclear reactor so nothing important would get destroyed if thimngs went wrong glad you're getting that one at Hickley Point I bet the french are pissing themselves laughing at that.

I believe london voted to remain so let's blame the of the welsh, brummies, geordies etc etc. Some of areas that have benefited most from eu membership and that helped make us the fifth largest economy are the ones that voted against it.

I'm considering buying a quashqai (seriously no jike intended) How long before nissan and toyota leave do you rackon.

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 6:14 pm

I've been pretty much permanently in rant mode since brexit. Horrified and disgusted that a few millionaires and billionaires conned millions of people into voting for (at best) a low tax low service economy on the lines of Singapore. Believe the NHS is now a walking corpse (brexit is merely the death blow there - was already in a bad way) and pensions will be next. I hear the Tories are focussing on mental health support. They also focussed on NHS support apparently so I don't think it looks good for mental health.

Nissan I believe will stay since the gov't has guaranteed their profits. One of the many brexit ironies is that the gov't has refused to tell us the terms but Nissan's major shareholders do know the terms. The French gov't is a major shareholder in Nissan, so brexit means the French know the terms of the deal before the British people. Return of sovereignty? Laughable.

I think brexit will be a complete and total disaster for the British people, and the rich will get richer faster in addition to the empowerment of racists who have murdered and abused at a much greater rate post referendum. I believe brexiters and Trumpers have voted to make the elite richer and everyone else poorer.

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Tue Jan 17, 2017 4:04 am

London, NI, most of the English cities and the Exeter region voted to remain (edit: You know about Scotland - voted in the same proportion as London, if I recall correctly). The countryside and small towns (there are a LOT of small towns) who see little or no immigration voted to leave.

I should add that even if brexit turned out to be a roaring success economically (the very rich love it for the low tax low service economy they want because they have private pensions and health insurance) I'd be against it because we left the EU, which is the greatest and most noble endeavour the continent of Europe has seen in its entire history for the peace and prosperity of all member states.

The weirdest one is the Welsh. Talk about cutting off nose to spite face! They benefited more from the EU than any other country of the UK and now they are in biiiiiig trouble because there just won't be the money there to replace it. The other weird one is the fishermen. They believe that brexit will get them exclusive rights to a 200 mile exclusion zone, despite the fact that the French might object to not being allowed to fish the Seine below Paris, the Irish might want access to the Irish Sea and we have not got the ships to patrol it - even if they had planes aircraft carriers aren't good for this sort of thing, you need a lot of small gunboat type vessels. We have 2, I think.

We are being asked to unite with brexiters for the prosperity of the country. It seems to me that brexiters are a collection of racists, xenophobes, far right nasties and a lot of people who believed their lies. It's like being German in the 1920's and being urged to unite with the National Socialists for the benefit of the country.

I haven't given up on the country yet but I can activate my right to Irish nationality if necessary. It's a difficult question though - I hate running away, I'd rather fight. I really don't like racists, xenophobes and far right nasties. Also, I'm damned PROUD of London.

Oh, and the North starts at the Thames, as far as I'm concerned

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Tue Jan 17, 2017 8:35 am

I am thinking you are over reacting a little Clodhopper

Post by **spot** » Tue Jan 17, 2017 9:25 am

I'm sure he's not. All that can be said for Brexit is that it's simplified the route to government for The Common People, something I deplore on the one hand but intend to take advantage of hereafter.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:29 pm

The irony is that it was that tory icon margeret thatcher that played a major part in ncreating the single market in the first place.

Brexiteers celebrating the fact that we're pulling out of the single market have no idea what it is or who pioneered it | The Independent

â€œA single market without barriers â€“ visible or invisible â€“ giving you direct and unhindered access to the purchasing power of over 300 million of the world's wealthiest and most prosperous people,â€ was how Thatcher herself described the single market at Lancaster House in 1988 to an audience of business leaders.

posted by spot

'm sure he's not. All that can be said for Brexit is that it's simplified the route to government for The Common People, something I deplore on the one hand but intend to take advantage of hereafter.

How on earth can you possibly claim that? The only way we will get that is with proportional represenation.

Most people in this country do NOT vote tory yet we have a tory government who are hell bent on privatising the NHS and most people don't want that they're taking us out the single market, that willl lead to job losses and rampant inflation, the tories want to create an offshore low tax haven for the filthy rich how on earth does any of this benefit ordinary people. Now we'rte going cap in hand to donald trump fo a trade deal despite the fact most of our trade is with europe.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:33 pm

spot;1505398 wrote: I'm sure he's not. All that can be said for Brexit is that it's simplified the route to government for The Common People, something I deplore on the one hand but intend to take advantage of hereafter.What are you planning to run for?

Post by **spot** » Tue Jan 17, 2017 1:07 pm

I'm far too old to run for public office. I'm party leader for the time being until there are members in the House of Commons who have been elected under the party banner, at which point I sincerely hope I can hand over the baton.

gmc;1505415 wrote: The only way we will get that is with proportional represenation. On the contrary, if we had proportional representation I can see no way in which The Common People could become an absolute majority in the House, form a government and enact its manifesto pledges. Under the current first past the post rules it's a possibility. I can't see the party attracting the support of the majority of the electorate.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Tue Jan 17, 2017 1:57 pm

spot;1505419 wrote: I'm far too old to run for public office. I'm party leader for the time being until there are members in the House of Commons who have been elected under the party banner, at which point I sincerely hope I can hand over the baton.

On the contrary, if we had proportional representation I can see no way in which The Common People could become an absolute majority in the House, form a government and enact its manifesto pledges. Under the current first past the post rules it's a possibility. I can't see the party attracting the support of the majority of the electorate.

That's not the way ity works and you know it. Under PR we woukld have a house that better reflects the way people vote and neither toy or labour woulod get an overwhelming majority which is the main reason they oppose it. In scotland where we niow have the resuklt has been to galvanise the elkectirate who now appreciate their vote does actually count and it's easier to hgold government to accoujnht. Under fptp we would have no labour or liberal MSP's the snp have a majority but they can lose it at the next election that they got so many seats says a lot about what scots feel about westminster up here the daily mail does not have the impact it does in england the bias in the press is more noticeable.

Under PR we would not have been in this farcical situation the one crime the libdems are guilty of is not taking the chance to change our electoral system they let down their supporters and taht's why they no lionger have any.

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Tue Jan 17, 2017 5:08 pm

the one crime the libdems are guilty of is not taking the chance to change our electoral system

They lost the PR referendum. Not sure how that is a criminal offence - though it is noticeable that very many brexiters blame Remainers for anything they don't like about how brexit is going so perhaps I shouldn't be surprised.

Left and Right will always be political factors, but I think we've added pro- and anti- Europe to that in a big way. I'm (just) inside the Richmond Park constituency that Zac Goldsmith held and while both candidates were against the Heathrow expansion Goldsmith lost a 22,000 majority because of his anti-European stance. I think brexiters who say they aren't against Europe are like people saying, "I'm not racist, but..."

Look at the people who lead the brexiters: Gove, Johnson, Fox, Davis, Rees-Mogg, Farage, Banks, Dacre. Far right lying bastards without exception. It's like Trump voters expecting a corrupt rich businessman to clean up the US government. What they've done is turn the USA into a Trump family enrichment scheme with rampant nepotism. People over here are already starting to call the US "Trumpton".

Post by **spot** » Tue Jan 17, 2017 5:13 pm

The young Rees-Mogg has a sense of humour, I'd feed him cottage pie and a bottle of Barolo in exchange for conversation any day. I very much approved of his dad's editorials.

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Tue Jan 17, 2017 5:30 pm

I am thinking you are over reacting a little Clodhopper

I hope so. If I'm not, and it's true that people in the poorest areas where there is little work are already skipping meals to make the Benefits last then there will be starvation. Food prices have already started to rise and where the prices haven't risen the amount for the price has dropped. Toblerone is an example that was in the news, but it's also true of veg and meat.

We've already had to bribe Nissan to stop them moving from Sunderland, and anyone who thinks we'll get a good deal from Trumpton is deluded. They'll trash our consumer standards because they have experienced trade negotiators (the lead one has said this is a God given opportunity to steal business from the UK) and we have none. In addition they have all the power since they do not need a trade deal with us and we need a deal very much and asap. Not a good negotiating position. China and India will be worse (Especially given the racism which brexiters have so much encouraged and which India has already commented on, as have Poland and Sweden) and no-one in their right mind does business with Russia.

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Tue Jan 17, 2017 5:32 pm

Rees-Mogg has a sense of humour.

Oh yeah sure. He's the moron who wants to remove the EU ban on pesticides, including nicotinoids which are associated with the decline in bee populations. Hilarious.

Post by **spot** » Tue Jan 17, 2017 5:45 pm

I'm sure he had no idea what he was doing other than that he was doing what he'd been told. Besides, I have a dozen bottles of Barolo in my cellar waiting.

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Tue Jan 17, 2017 5:52 pm

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Wed Jan 18, 2017 7:21 am

Clodhopper;1505438 wrote: I hope so. If I'm not, and it's true that people in the poorest areas where there is little work are already skipping meals to make the Benefits last then there will be starvation. Food prices have already started to rise and where the prices haven't risen the amount for the price has dropped. Toblerone is an example that was in the news, but it's also true of veg and meat.

We've already had to bribe Nissan to stop them moving from Sunderland, and anyone who thinks we'll get a good deal from Trumpton is deluded. They'll trash our consumer standards because they have experienced trade negotiators (the lead one has said this is a God given opportunity to steal business from the UK) and we have none. In addition they have all the power since they do not need a trade deal with us and we need a deal very much and asap. Not a good negotiating position. China and India will be worse (Especially given the racism which brexiters have so much encouraged and which India has already commented on, as have Poland and Sweden) and no-one in their right mind does business with Russia.

I have my own worries about the future of course.

But you seem to pick ALL the negatives and paint the worst possible outcome.

I'm sure the UK has entrepreneurs, skills, services and goods the world wants, whatever trade deals we have in place.

I also don't believe all brexiters are racist .

Post by **spot** » Wed Jan 18, 2017 8:42 am

Bruv;1505449 wrote: I'm sure the UK has entrepreneurs, skills, services and goods the world wants, whatever trade deals we have in place.The reason trade barriers exist is that other parts of the world can employ ten workers for the price of one British worker, and each of those ten works harder and (given the right environment) more productively. It's why you've just lived through forty years of outsourcing. It's why manufacturing in the UK has become a specialized niche.

When you talk of the British service industry you're talking primarily of minimum-wage workers on zero hour contracts.

Of course the rest of the world wants trade deals with the UK - it wants to sell to us because what the UK has is capital.

In order for us to export we have to find areas of the world that pay better than we do. Did you just notice the pound drop 20% in value? That's reduced everyone's income in this country by 20% in export terms. We're still not going to export to the third world even so.

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Wed Jan 18, 2017 9:12 am

Bruv;1505449 wrote: I have my own worries about the future of course.

But you seem to pick ALL the negatives and paint the worst possible outcome.

I'm sure the UK has entrepreneurs, skills, services and goods the world wants, whatever trade deals we have in place.

I also don't believe all brexiters are racist .

Not all brexiters are racist; but all the racists are brexiters. (They weren't going to vote for a multicultural multiracial EU)

Not all brexiters are xenophobes; but all the xenophobes voted brexit (heck, for those f'wits, foreign starts outside their village...)

Not all brexiters are far right nasties; but all the far right nasties voted brexit (look at the leaders of the movement. Rich arrogant bastards the lot of them, though not all the rich are bastards)

Man, if you know of any positives tell me them. All I can see in brexit is poverty, misery and loss.

edit: At least the Americans can vote Trump out in 4 years if he makes it that long. We have done something permanent. We will not rejoin the EU in my lifetime if we leave and I can't see what will stop us leaving.