ched evans

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gmc
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Post by gmc »

KATIE HOPKINS believes Ched Evans should be treated as innocent | Daily Mail Online

It was rape. If he'd robbed her of her handbag while she was drunk - or if anyone gets robbed while drunk while contributoiry stupidity is a factor the theft is still seen as criminal behaviour and not the least bit inj dopubt. By his own admission he never spoke to her before or after he had no way of knowing if she consented or even if she had been drugged, had her drink spiked or not. To describe issues around consent as “murky” or in any way open to question should offend the majority of men who have never accidentally assaulted a woman or seen one as an easy target when she was drunk.
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Post by Bruv »

It is very confused territory.

I haven't followed the story to be honest only read headlines.

I do know he was convicted and spent time in prison then on retrial got this new verdict.

Neither victim or the man himself would be on my list of people to have to dinner.

Both are alive with futures ahead of them, both have suffered at their bad judgment that night, both have had enough punishment, time to let it go.
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gmc
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Post by gmc »

Bit more to it than that the only reason he got off was because they were allowed to bring up the previous sexual conduct of the victim evidence being provided by two men who responded to a reward for information about the victim setting a precedent that does not bode well for the future . No wonder women tend not to report rape when not being a virgin will help prove her attacker innocent. She was uncion cious and by his own admition he never spoke to her before or after yet somehow he didn't rape her because she had had sex with two men on a previous occasion.

How is it possible that having sex with someone you have never met and is unconscious is anything else but rape? Even if she had gone willingly with the first one - and never mind her past history she was in no position to give consent to a second and he knew she wasn;t but had been invited to join in how is it anythung else but rape? He didn't ask her he just raped her. No doubt she was provocatively dressed as well and sh wouldnl;t have gione to a night club unless she was up for it.
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Post by LarsMac »

So, for whatever reason, if she fails to say "No" she has implied consent?
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spot
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Post by spot »

I think the argument is that any person has to be capable, at the time, of giving informed consent for the encounter to be legally consensual. It applies to the misinformed, the permanently or temporarily mentally incapable and includes age of consent issues. Alcohol falls into the temporarily mentally incapable category. Only when that primary capacity to consent has been established do questions of coercion or fear come into play, and once those are navigated you end up with what people actually said to each other. I haven't the slightest idea why behavioral history should be relevant in this instance since it seems to have pivoted on drink, not on what anyone actually intended. One can legally make a consensual agreement and then subsequently drink toward oblivion but approaching a stranger who's already intoxicated strikes me as an automatic invitation to subsequent prosecution, and so it ought.
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Post by gmc »

LarsMac;1501982 wrote: So, for whatever reason, if she fails to say "No" she has implied consent?


Yep or just being incapacitated and helpless or simply niave it seems implies consent. In the states you had that steubenville rape case and Vanderbilt? and more recentky stanford university where those carrying out the act seemed to have had a sense of entitlement and no consideration whatever for the victim. The media coverage like that in ched evans case seemed more interested in the effect it has on the futures of the criminals rather than the victims. It seems if judged of being of little worth the victim has no rights and is not entitled to feel aggrieved. I just don't get it how thick do you have to be to decide that someone unconscious is ready and willing to have sex and it's not rape? The guys a low life.

Hang it all you have a presidential candidate that boasts of assaultimng women and sees nothing wrong with it nor do some of his supporters.
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Post by LarsMac »

gmc;1501986 wrote: Yep or just being incapacitated and helpless or simply niave it seems implies consent. In the states you had that steubenville rape case and Vanderbilt? and more recentky stanford university where those carrying out the act seemed to have had a sense of entitlement and no consideration whatever for the victim. The media coverage like that in ched evans case seemed more interested in the effect it has on the futures of the criminals rather than the victims. It seems if judged of being of little worth the victim has no rights and is not entitled to feel aggrieved. I just don't get it how thick do you have to be to decide that someone unconscious is ready and willing to have sex and it's not rape? The guys a low life.

Hang it all you have a presidential candidate that boasts of assaultimng women and sees nothing wrong with it nor do some of his supporters.


Make that most of his supporters, including many women. I had one woman tell me, "Yes, I was f***ed while I was passed out. That's what I get for being so drunk."

I noticed tears welling up in her eyes as she said it, but she held to that notion.

It can be a sad world for those who feel that they have no power. But, that is another story, completely.
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Post by gmc »

LarsMac;1501989 wrote: Make that most of his supporters, including many women. I had one woman tell me, "Yes, I was f***ed while I was passed out. That's what I get for being so drunk."

I noticed tears welling up in her eyes as she said it, but she held to that notion.

It can be a sad world for those who feel that they have no power. But, that is another story, completely.


She possibly felt she couldn't report it as she has been brainwashed in to thinking she deserved it. I know someone whose drink got spiked on a night out, luckily her friends get her out of the pub so now she refuses drinks and finds herself being treated with hostility for being stand offish. Some blokes will take a woman smiling at them as an invitation if she doesn't smile or respond to them then she thinks she's better than them which is also a provocation.

But leaving that aside it still comes back to she was unconscious how could that possibly be taken as an invitation to have sex? Sex without consent is rape QED
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Post by G#Gill »

The justice in this country is getting worse. The British justice of the past was looked upon by the world as the best in the world ! What has happened in the last 30 or 40 years to our once envied justice system ?

I suppose it was a case of 'reasonable doubt' that he was allowed to go free. Pity that all courts and judges don't abide by that 'reasonable doubt'. I was informed some time ago that there are a lot of innocent people that are incarcerated simply because juries took it upon themselves to overlook 'reasonable doubt'. It is also a fact that hearsay evidence, particularly in sex cases, is permitted in our courts of law. This means that anybody can make up a fictitious story about e.g. being sexually assaulted, and this story is accepted in the courts ! Particularly if the accuser is a good enough actor, and of course can turn the tap on in the right places.

I find this totally unjust. The person accused stands very little chance of actually getting justice. I suppose the Evans case did actually take notice of 'reasonable doubt' at the re-trial.

I'm afraid I have lost all faith in our justice system.
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Post by spot »

G#Gill;1501996 wrote: The justice in this country is getting worse. The British justice of the past was looked upon by the world as the best in the world ! What has happened in the last 30 or 40 years to our once envied justice system ?

I suppose it was a case of 'reasonable doubt' that he was allowed to go free. Pity that all courts and judges don't abide by that 'reasonable doubt'. I was informed some time ago that there are a lot of innocent people that are incarcerated simply because juries took it upon themselves to overlook 'reasonable doubt'. It is also a fact that hearsay evidence, particularly in sex cases, is permitted in our courts of law. This means that anybody can make up a fictitious story about e.g. being sexually assaulted, and this story is accepted in the courts ! Particularly if the accuser is a good enough actor, and of course can turn the tap on in the right places.

I find this totally unjust. The person accused stands very little chance of actually getting justice. I suppose the Evans case did actually take notice of 'reasonable doubt' at the re-trial.

I'm afraid I have lost all faith in our justice system.


Gill, you know perfectly well that the police would have laughed their socks off forty years ago if any woman had complained to them of the situation described here, they'd have refused to investigate because they wouldn't have thought of it as rape, and even if they had they they'd have refused because of the comparative status of the complainant and the International footballer. Are you saying the ability to now be listened to by the police when complaining is worse now than it was then? If not, what are you actually saying? Forty years ago this complaint wouldn't have progressed past the desk sergeant.
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Post by magentaflame »

Ive had 25 years to think about this question of justice, redemption, revenge etc. I would never, having been through it myself, encourage any rape victim to persue any legal action against an assault.

I would encourage smart thinking. The premise behind blaming the victim is entitlement......... you revenge youself by concentrating on that premise.

Ill say no more than that.

We all have legal and court systems.......we do not have justice systems.
The 'radical' left just wants everyone to have food, shelter, healthcare, education and a living wage. Man that's radical!....ooooohhhh Scary!
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Post by Momus »

Of course, if we stop paying footballers vast amounts of money and elevating them to some level of god like status, the desire of young women to frequent the clubs where such men hang out, could lessen the risk. The man has been ruled not guilty by the way.
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Post by Bruv »

Momus;1502017 wrote: Of course, if we stop paying footballers vast amounts of money and elevating them to some level of god like status, the desire of young women to frequent the clubs where such men hang out, could lessen the risk. The man has been ruled not guilty by the way.


Would that lessen the desire of young men ?
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Post by magentaflame »

Young men?

Rapists come in all shapes and sizes, ages, race, creeds.

And can be found in all places, clubs, pubs,supermarkets, homes,parliamentry offices, workplaces, parks, footpaths.etc etc.
The 'radical' left just wants everyone to have food, shelter, healthcare, education and a living wage. Man that's radical!....ooooohhhh Scary!
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Post by gmc »

Momus;1502017 wrote: Of course, if we stop paying footballers vast amounts of money and elevating them to some level of god like status, the desire of young women to frequent the clubs where such men hang out, could lessen the risk. The man has been ruled not guilty by the way.


On appeal after witnesses were bribed to come forward and the fact the woman was not virgin was highlighted. It's a simple question could she give consent, answer no she was unconscious. he does not dispute the basic facts oif the case - he did have sex, she was unconscious and he never spoke to her before or after. You tell me how was that not rape? How did he know her drink hadn;t been spiked and she was an unwilling victim? He's a low life with a sense of entitlemnt. If you momus have sex with an unconscious wopman are you raoping her or having consensual sex?

Katie hopkins works for the same rag that had banner headlines avbout women being assaulted in cologne by middle eastern immigrants who have no respect for women and thyey should be taught to respect that western women have the right to go out on theior own unaccompanaied withoiut being molested. No doubt had they been drunk then the banner headline would have beensomething bunch of slags groped in cologne.
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