Brexit protest: Tens of thousands march through London to demand Britain remains in EU | Home News | News | The Independent
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Methinks we should have a second refrerendum before we decide finally. It's obscene we have a party in power that most people voted against and there will now be a coronation of a new leader.
Brexit: Leave campaign was ‘criminally irresponsible’, says leading legal academic | Home News | News | The Independent
By the time the leave supporters realise they have fallen for a line of bull**** we will have a privatised NHS, signed up to the ttip treaty and all health and safety regulations will have been repealed as will proibabnly the minimum wage legislation.
All over bar the shouting?
All over bar the shouting?
gmc;1498134 wrote: Brexit protest: Tens of thousands march through London to demand Britain remains in EU | Home News | News | The Independent
Home | Daily Mail Online
Methinks we should have a second refrerendum before we decide finally. It's obscene we have a party in power that most people voted against and there will now be a coronation of a new leader.
Brexit: Leave campaign was ‘criminally irresponsible’, says leading legal academic | Home News | News | The Independent
By the time the leave supporters realise they have fallen for a line of bull**** we will have a privatised NHS, signed up to the ttip treaty and all health and safety regulations will have been repealed as will proibabnly the minimum wage legislation.
Whilst the Leave campaign knowingly lied in the claims it made (as did the Remainers) is it really a basis of a legal challenge as the law stands?
Home | Daily Mail Online
Methinks we should have a second refrerendum before we decide finally. It's obscene we have a party in power that most people voted against and there will now be a coronation of a new leader.
Brexit: Leave campaign was ‘criminally irresponsible’, says leading legal academic | Home News | News | The Independent
By the time the leave supporters realise they have fallen for a line of bull**** we will have a privatised NHS, signed up to the ttip treaty and all health and safety regulations will have been repealed as will proibabnly the minimum wage legislation.
Whilst the Leave campaign knowingly lied in the claims it made (as did the Remainers) is it really a basis of a legal challenge as the law stands?
All over bar the shouting?
gmc;1498134 wrote: Brexit protest: Tens of thousands march through London to demand Britain remains in EU | Home News | News | The Independent
Home | Daily Mail Online
Methinks we should have a second refrerendum before we decide finally. It's obscene we have a party in power that most people voted against and there will now be a coronation of a new leader.
Brexit: Leave campaign was ‘criminally irresponsible’, says leading legal academic | Home News | News | The Independent
By the time the leave supporters realise they have fallen for a line of bull**** we will have a privatised NHS, signed up to the ttip treaty and all health and safety regulations will have been repealed as will proibabnly the minimum wage legislation.
How will we be signing up to TTIP if it was a treaty between the US and the EU ? Brexit has more than likely halted TTIP
How Brexit Has Crippled TTIP
And since when was it appropriate to keep having a referendum, because the result was not to your liking, until the result changes to suit.
By all means argue the pros and cons of Remain or Leave but stamping your feet cos you didn't get what you wanted isn't going to work. A decision has been made, whether any of us like it or not, in the appropriate manner. We wouldn't be having this conversation if the vote had gone the other way.
Home | Daily Mail Online
Methinks we should have a second refrerendum before we decide finally. It's obscene we have a party in power that most people voted against and there will now be a coronation of a new leader.
Brexit: Leave campaign was ‘criminally irresponsible’, says leading legal academic | Home News | News | The Independent
By the time the leave supporters realise they have fallen for a line of bull**** we will have a privatised NHS, signed up to the ttip treaty and all health and safety regulations will have been repealed as will proibabnly the minimum wage legislation.
How will we be signing up to TTIP if it was a treaty between the US and the EU ? Brexit has more than likely halted TTIP
How Brexit Has Crippled TTIP
And since when was it appropriate to keep having a referendum, because the result was not to your liking, until the result changes to suit.
By all means argue the pros and cons of Remain or Leave but stamping your feet cos you didn't get what you wanted isn't going to work. A decision has been made, whether any of us like it or not, in the appropriate manner. We wouldn't be having this conversation if the vote had gone the other way.
"He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire."
Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill
All over bar the shouting?
Snowfire;1498137 wrote: How will we be signing up to TTIP if it was a treaty between the US and the EU ? Brexit has more than likely halted TTIP
How Brexit Has Crippled TTIP
And since when was it appropriate to keep having a referendum, because the result was not to your liking, until the result changes to suit.
By all means argue the pros and cons of Remain or Leave but stamping your feet cos you didn't get what you wanted isn't going to work. A decision has been made, whether any of us like it or not, in the appropriate manner. We wouldn't be having this conversation if the vote had gone the other way.
So it is quite acceptable to make claims knowing them to be wrong in order to influence people to vote in your favour?
A referendum has to be conducted according to certain rules or it is not valid and it is appropriate to re-run it.
Now, I've already said that I think that, as the law stands, here is no legal basis for a challenge but I will say that the reason to consider such a challenge is not because the result was not to my liking but because of the "cheating" that demonstrably took place.
How Brexit Has Crippled TTIP
And since when was it appropriate to keep having a referendum, because the result was not to your liking, until the result changes to suit.
By all means argue the pros and cons of Remain or Leave but stamping your feet cos you didn't get what you wanted isn't going to work. A decision has been made, whether any of us like it or not, in the appropriate manner. We wouldn't be having this conversation if the vote had gone the other way.
So it is quite acceptable to make claims knowing them to be wrong in order to influence people to vote in your favour?
A referendum has to be conducted according to certain rules or it is not valid and it is appropriate to re-run it.
Now, I've already said that I think that, as the law stands, here is no legal basis for a challenge but I will say that the reason to consider such a challenge is not because the result was not to my liking but because of the "cheating" that demonstrably took place.
All over bar the shouting?
Its clear that Farage has backtracked on his word. He's an arse of the highest order. Let that be the basis for any action. It maybe sometime before we get to witness, or not, Cameron's predictions of death and destruction. Who knows for sure what is certain.
They are politicians. They all lie to one degree or another, for their own ends.
They are politicians. They all lie to one degree or another, for their own ends.
"He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire."
Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill
All over bar the shouting?
We ARE leaving, we voted for it.......as they say.....simples.
I don't like it, I don't like a lot of political shenanigans.
To have another referendum on the basis that some of the promises were unrealistic would put most elections in question, why this result only ?
What worries me most right now is the rise of the right throughout Europe, and the reported rise of racist abuse here since the result gave the OK for the nutters.
I don't like it, I don't like a lot of political shenanigans.
To have another referendum on the basis that some of the promises were unrealistic would put most elections in question, why this result only ?
What worries me most right now is the rise of the right throughout Europe, and the reported rise of racist abuse here since the result gave the OK for the nutters.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
-
magentaflame
- Posts: 3007
- Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2016 4:11 pm
- Location: Victoria, Australia
All over bar the shouting?
A democratic vote is democracy. A point was made that the protests were only in london. One city does not make a nation. I didnt see tens of thousands. I saw maybe a thousand...... and a facebook call to arms doth not make a prorwst.
The 'radical' left just wants everyone to have food, shelter, healthcare, education and a living wage. Man that's radical!....ooooohhhh Scary!
All over bar the shouting?
So, when do we see the Referendum for Independence of London from the U.K.?
All over bar the shouting?
magentaflame;1498141 wrote: A democratic vote is democracy. A point was made that the protests were only in london. One city does not make a nation. I didnt see tens of thousands. I saw maybe a thousand...... and a facebook call to arms doth not make a prorwst.
London IS the capital, that is where most national protests happen, where the government is.....trust me it's more than a thousand.
London IS the capital, that is where most national protests happen, where the government is.....trust me it's more than a thousand.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
All over bar the shouting?
Snowfire;1498137 wrote: How will we be signing up to TTIP if it was a treaty between the US and the EU ? Brexit has more than likely halted TTIP
How Brexit Has Crippled TTIP
And since when was it appropriate to keep having a referendum, because the result was not to your liking, until the result changes to suit.
By all means argue the pros and cons of Remain or Leave but stamping your feet cos you didn't get what you wanted isn't going to work. A decision has been made, whether any of us like it or not, in the appropriate manner. We wouldn't be having this conversation if the vote had gone the other way.
I suggst you take a look at how the tory politicians stand when it comes to ttip also how likely do you think the UK will be to stand up to pressure from the US to sign. Not a lot.
In the UK it is not appropriate to have a referendum at all we are a representative democracy. The time to have had a referendum was before we signed the maastrich treaty. Parliament is sovereign it doesnlt have to heed the referendum and is quite within it's emit to have another one.
Given the seriousness of the decision and the lies told by the leave side I think the british people should be given a chance to think again at lkeast once the details of the deal are known. If the decision had been the other way the leave side would have been bleasting about how it was such a narrow victory. Hopefully it will dawn on even the thickest leave supporter that te leave campaign had nothing to do with what was best for the country. this has nothing to do with what was best for the UK. At the very least I hope we have a general election.
posted by bruv
What worries me most right now is the rise of the right throughout Europe, and the reported rise of racist abuse here since the result gave the OK for the nutters.
Well gosh we have a leave campaign whose main point was that of immigration is anyone surprised all the racists will start crawling out the woodwork. The irony is of course that the oines that will bear the brunt of racism are not from the EU.
Froim the few ukip supporters I have come across they wouldn't know what a fact was even if you rolled itb up in a paper and beat them with it.
How Brexit Has Crippled TTIP
And since when was it appropriate to keep having a referendum, because the result was not to your liking, until the result changes to suit.
By all means argue the pros and cons of Remain or Leave but stamping your feet cos you didn't get what you wanted isn't going to work. A decision has been made, whether any of us like it or not, in the appropriate manner. We wouldn't be having this conversation if the vote had gone the other way.
I suggst you take a look at how the tory politicians stand when it comes to ttip also how likely do you think the UK will be to stand up to pressure from the US to sign. Not a lot.
In the UK it is not appropriate to have a referendum at all we are a representative democracy. The time to have had a referendum was before we signed the maastrich treaty. Parliament is sovereign it doesnlt have to heed the referendum and is quite within it's emit to have another one.
Given the seriousness of the decision and the lies told by the leave side I think the british people should be given a chance to think again at lkeast once the details of the deal are known. If the decision had been the other way the leave side would have been bleasting about how it was such a narrow victory. Hopefully it will dawn on even the thickest leave supporter that te leave campaign had nothing to do with what was best for the country. this has nothing to do with what was best for the UK. At the very least I hope we have a general election.
posted by bruv
What worries me most right now is the rise of the right throughout Europe, and the reported rise of racist abuse here since the result gave the OK for the nutters.
Well gosh we have a leave campaign whose main point was that of immigration is anyone surprised all the racists will start crawling out the woodwork. The irony is of course that the oines that will bear the brunt of racism are not from the EU.
Froim the few ukip supporters I have come across they wouldn't know what a fact was even if you rolled itb up in a paper and beat them with it.
All over bar the shouting?
gmc;1498157 wrote: I suggst you take a look at how the tory politicians stand when it comes to ttip also how likely do you think the UK will be to stand up to pressure from the US to sign. Not a lot.
In the UK it is not appropriate to have a referendum at all we are a representative democracy. The time to have had a referendum was before we signed the maastrich treaty. Parliament is sovereign it doesnlt have to heed the referendum and is quite within it's emit to have another one.
Given the seriousness of the decision and the lies told by the leave side I think the british people should be given a chance to think again at lkeast once the details of the deal are known. If the decision had been the other way the leave side would have been bleasting about how it was such a narrow victory. Hopefully it will dawn on even the thickest leave supporter that te leave campaign had nothing to do with what was best for the country. this has nothing to do with what was best for the UK. At the very least I hope we have a general election.
posted by bruv
Well gosh we have a leave campaign whose main point was that of immigration is anyone surprised all the racists will start crawling out the woodwork. The irony is of course that the oines that will bear the brunt of racism are not from the EU.
Froim the few ukip supporters I have come across they wouldn't know what a fact was even if you rolled itb up in a paper and beat them with it.
You haven't explained how a US/EU treaty would affect the UK, given that we have opted out of that whole secret negotiated deal.
So you are suggesting that, because they (those that chose to vote Leave) think differently and have different motives, they are "thick". That says more about your arrogance than anything about Brexit politics.
You think referendums are inappropriate, even though no one suggested so before hand and that you would have accepted a Remain vote without hesitation. You are talking from out of your billowing kilt.
In the UK it is not appropriate to have a referendum at all we are a representative democracy. The time to have had a referendum was before we signed the maastrich treaty. Parliament is sovereign it doesnlt have to heed the referendum and is quite within it's emit to have another one.
Given the seriousness of the decision and the lies told by the leave side I think the british people should be given a chance to think again at lkeast once the details of the deal are known. If the decision had been the other way the leave side would have been bleasting about how it was such a narrow victory. Hopefully it will dawn on even the thickest leave supporter that te leave campaign had nothing to do with what was best for the country. this has nothing to do with what was best for the UK. At the very least I hope we have a general election.
posted by bruv
Well gosh we have a leave campaign whose main point was that of immigration is anyone surprised all the racists will start crawling out the woodwork. The irony is of course that the oines that will bear the brunt of racism are not from the EU.
Froim the few ukip supporters I have come across they wouldn't know what a fact was even if you rolled itb up in a paper and beat them with it.
You haven't explained how a US/EU treaty would affect the UK, given that we have opted out of that whole secret negotiated deal.
So you are suggesting that, because they (those that chose to vote Leave) think differently and have different motives, they are "thick". That says more about your arrogance than anything about Brexit politics.
You think referendums are inappropriate, even though no one suggested so before hand and that you would have accepted a Remain vote without hesitation. You are talking from out of your billowing kilt.
"He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire."
Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill
All over bar the shouting?
Snowfire;1498160 wrote: You haven't explained how a US/EU treaty would affect the UK, given that we have opted out of that whole secret negotiated deal.
So you are suggesting that, because they (those that chose to vote Leave) think differently and have different motives, they are "thick". That says more about your arrogance than anything about Brexit politics.
You think referendums are inappropriate, even though no one suggested so before hand and that you would have accepted a Remain vote without hesitation. You are talking from out of your billowing kilt.
Why does the deal have to be specific to the EU?
Any deal that they're trying to foist onto the EU is a deal that they're likely to want to push us into signing once we're out.
So you are suggesting that, because they (those that chose to vote Leave) think differently and have different motives, they are "thick". That says more about your arrogance than anything about Brexit politics.
You think referendums are inappropriate, even though no one suggested so before hand and that you would have accepted a Remain vote without hesitation. You are talking from out of your billowing kilt.
Why does the deal have to be specific to the EU?
Any deal that they're trying to foist onto the EU is a deal that they're likely to want to push us into signing once we're out.
All over bar the shouting?
Bryn Mawr;1498138 wrote: So it is quite acceptable to make claims knowing them to be wrong in order to influence people to vote in your favour?
A referendum has to be conducted according to certain rules or it is not valid and it is appropriate to re-run it.
Now, I've already said that I think that, as the law stands, here is no legal basis for a challenge but I will say that the reason to consider such a challenge is not because the result was not to my liking but because of the "cheating" that demonstrably took place.
Unfortunately, Bryn, both sides were guilty of exaggeration and false claims etc. However, I believe that most people with half an ounce of intelligence would have realised all this and still voted how THEY decided, not how various factions tried to persuade them to vote.
It seems to be a false belief with various politicians that the ordinary Joe and Joan in this country are unable to make considered decisions. Well the referendum has been held legally so please don't make England more of a laughing stock in the world by trying to push for a re-referendum. The decision has been made by democratic vote, so live with it and make the best of what has been decided. Or are the bad losers going to throw all their dollies as well as their dummies out of the pram ?
A referendum has to be conducted according to certain rules or it is not valid and it is appropriate to re-run it.
Now, I've already said that I think that, as the law stands, here is no legal basis for a challenge but I will say that the reason to consider such a challenge is not because the result was not to my liking but because of the "cheating" that demonstrably took place.
Unfortunately, Bryn, both sides were guilty of exaggeration and false claims etc. However, I believe that most people with half an ounce of intelligence would have realised all this and still voted how THEY decided, not how various factions tried to persuade them to vote.
It seems to be a false belief with various politicians that the ordinary Joe and Joan in this country are unable to make considered decisions. Well the referendum has been held legally so please don't make England more of a laughing stock in the world by trying to push for a re-referendum. The decision has been made by democratic vote, so live with it and make the best of what has been decided. Or are the bad losers going to throw all their dollies as well as their dummies out of the pram ?
I'm a Saga-lout, growing old disgracefully
All over bar the shouting?
posted by g#gill
You haven't explained how a US/EU treaty would affect the UK, given that we have opted out of that whole secret negotiated deal.
What makes you think we have opted out of it or that on our own we will be in a position not to join it? The tories want to privatise the NHS if they get free range they will probably succeed.
So you are suggesting that, because they (those that chose to vote Leave) think differently and have different motives, they are "thick". That says more about your arrogance than anything about Brexit politics.
No it says what I think about many of those who voted leave. I don't have a problem with them thinking differently or having different motives but for many i think it was a protest vote against the ineptitude of iour own governments. If you actually listen to what many are saying much of the complaint has little to do with the eu. Someone is thick in my opinion is they quote something as fact that is in error and they lack the basic common sense to check up on what they are being told tghey ahve made their decision and it affects me you're dead right I think I have a right to complain about something so fundamental being decided on such a narrow majority and where the biggest motivator seems to have been simple xenophobia. We should not make a final decision until the terms of the deal are clear and we have had another general election.
You think referendums are inappropriate, even though no one suggested so before hand and that you would have accepted a Remain vote without hesitation. You are talking from out of your billowing kilt.
It's not appropriate in the british constitutional context we are a representative democracy our MP's are not delegates they are supposed to mak decisions based on the information they have not on who is shouting the loudest at them. The breferendum is not legally binding. The biggest problem we have in the Uk is a first past the post electortal system where a government most people do not want keeps getting elected. Yes we had a referndum on that as well carefully orchestrated by the conservatives to make sure the issues did not get a prioper hearing.
posted by G#Gill
It seems to be a false belief with various politicians that the ordinary Joe and Joan in this country are unable to make considered decisions. Well the referendum has been held legally so please don't make England more of a laughing stock in the world by trying to push for a re-referendum. The decision has been made by democratic vote, so live with it and make the best of what has been decided. Or are the bad losers going to throw all their dollies as well as their dummies out of the pram ?
They can make considered decisions when they have all the facts maybe the shennanigans of the tory labour and ukip parties will mak them look again at what they actually voted for. Have fun living and working in england when they start privatising the NHS, taking away your civil rights (have a look at theresa may's record) and removing all the health and safety regulation , rights to holiday pay, protectimng from just being fired from your job.
Thankfully I'm not english and don't live there. Looks like england may have to go for it on their own - UKIP plicy was to do away with the scottish and welsh assemblies and replace them with something that sounded like the old scottish grand committee harking back to some kind of golden age that never was. We would not be the fifth largest economy in the world were it not for our membership in the eu it's pribably only going to take a couple of years to wreck it. Looks like the city of London has had it's day.
I didn't vote tory nor did most people in this country yet we are about to have a new leader crowned and the leave campaigners complian about the eu being undemocratic.
having a second referendum wouldnlt make us a laughing stock if that's all you can up with it's a pretty pathetic argument to come out with.
You haven't explained how a US/EU treaty would affect the UK, given that we have opted out of that whole secret negotiated deal.
What makes you think we have opted out of it or that on our own we will be in a position not to join it? The tories want to privatise the NHS if they get free range they will probably succeed.
So you are suggesting that, because they (those that chose to vote Leave) think differently and have different motives, they are "thick". That says more about your arrogance than anything about Brexit politics.
No it says what I think about many of those who voted leave. I don't have a problem with them thinking differently or having different motives but for many i think it was a protest vote against the ineptitude of iour own governments. If you actually listen to what many are saying much of the complaint has little to do with the eu. Someone is thick in my opinion is they quote something as fact that is in error and they lack the basic common sense to check up on what they are being told tghey ahve made their decision and it affects me you're dead right I think I have a right to complain about something so fundamental being decided on such a narrow majority and where the biggest motivator seems to have been simple xenophobia. We should not make a final decision until the terms of the deal are clear and we have had another general election.
You think referendums are inappropriate, even though no one suggested so before hand and that you would have accepted a Remain vote without hesitation. You are talking from out of your billowing kilt.
It's not appropriate in the british constitutional context we are a representative democracy our MP's are not delegates they are supposed to mak decisions based on the information they have not on who is shouting the loudest at them. The breferendum is not legally binding. The biggest problem we have in the Uk is a first past the post electortal system where a government most people do not want keeps getting elected. Yes we had a referndum on that as well carefully orchestrated by the conservatives to make sure the issues did not get a prioper hearing.
posted by G#Gill
It seems to be a false belief with various politicians that the ordinary Joe and Joan in this country are unable to make considered decisions. Well the referendum has been held legally so please don't make England more of a laughing stock in the world by trying to push for a re-referendum. The decision has been made by democratic vote, so live with it and make the best of what has been decided. Or are the bad losers going to throw all their dollies as well as their dummies out of the pram ?
They can make considered decisions when they have all the facts maybe the shennanigans of the tory labour and ukip parties will mak them look again at what they actually voted for. Have fun living and working in england when they start privatising the NHS, taking away your civil rights (have a look at theresa may's record) and removing all the health and safety regulation , rights to holiday pay, protectimng from just being fired from your job.
Thankfully I'm not english and don't live there. Looks like england may have to go for it on their own - UKIP plicy was to do away with the scottish and welsh assemblies and replace them with something that sounded like the old scottish grand committee harking back to some kind of golden age that never was. We would not be the fifth largest economy in the world were it not for our membership in the eu it's pribably only going to take a couple of years to wreck it. Looks like the city of London has had it's day.
I didn't vote tory nor did most people in this country yet we are about to have a new leader crowned and the leave campaigners complian about the eu being undemocratic.
having a second referendum wouldnlt make us a laughing stock if that's all you can up with it's a pretty pathetic argument to come out with.
All over bar the shouting?
G#Gill;1498185 wrote: Unfortunately, Bryn, both sides were guilty of exaggeration and false claims etc. However, I believe that most people with half an ounce of intelligence would have realised all this and still voted how THEY decided, not how various factions tried to persuade them to vote.
It seems to be a false belief with various politicians that the ordinary Joe and Joan in this country are unable to make considered decisions. Well the referendum has been held legally so please don't make England more of a laughing stock in the world by trying to push for a re-referendum. The decision has been made by democratic vote, so live with it and make the best of what has been decided. Or are the bad losers going to throw all their dollies as well as their dummies out of the pram ?
When it goes beyond exaggeration into out and out lies then a lot of the population do not have the means to find out the truth on which to base their decision.
The politicians and the media must, somehow, be taught that lying to the electorate is not acceptable.
I have, however, said that I don't think that there is a legal basis for contesting the result so, therefore, I am not "trying to push for a re-referendum".
It seems to be a false belief with various politicians that the ordinary Joe and Joan in this country are unable to make considered decisions. Well the referendum has been held legally so please don't make England more of a laughing stock in the world by trying to push for a re-referendum. The decision has been made by democratic vote, so live with it and make the best of what has been decided. Or are the bad losers going to throw all their dollies as well as their dummies out of the pram ?
When it goes beyond exaggeration into out and out lies then a lot of the population do not have the means to find out the truth on which to base their decision.
The politicians and the media must, somehow, be taught that lying to the electorate is not acceptable.
I have, however, said that I don't think that there is a legal basis for contesting the result so, therefore, I am not "trying to push for a re-referendum".
All over bar the shouting?
And now Farage has quit as leader of UKIP, wonder if he is resigning as an MEP ?
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
All over bar the shouting?
Bruv;1498192 wrote: And now Farage has quit as leader of UKIP, wonder if he is resigning as an MEP ?
Standing down at the next elections is my understanding.
Standing down at the next elections is my understanding.
All over bar the shouting?
Seems to me that such a small majority should not be able to absolutely define such important policy.
I suggest that the referendum was poorly planned and written to allow such a fiasco
I suggest that the referendum was poorly planned and written to allow such a fiasco
The home of the soul is the Open Road.
- DH Lawrence
- DH Lawrence
All over bar the shouting?
LarsMac;1498199 wrote: Seems to me that such a small majority should not be able to absolutely define such important policy.
I suggest that the referendum was poorly planned and written to allow such a fiasco
What percentage does the US require to change its constitution which, I guess, would be an equivalent step change.
I suggest that the referendum was poorly planned and written to allow such a fiasco
What percentage does the US require to change its constitution which, I guess, would be an equivalent step change.
All over bar the shouting?
Bryn Mawr;1498200 wrote: What percentage does the US require to change its constitution which, I guess, would be an equivalent step change.
Simple answer:
Two principle methods of amending the constitution are provided.
1. Both Senate and House can propose an amendment by a two-thirds majority vote of both houses. or,
2. Two-thirds of the states' legislatures can call a constitutional convention to propose and amendment.
Then,
once an amendment has been proposed it must be ratified by the legislatures of two-thirds of the states.
Here is a link for anyone who wants to see the details.
Referendums are generally held at the state level, and each state has its own process for how to handle them, but usually they are by general popular vote, requiring only a simple majority unless a super-majority is specified in the referendum.
Once passed, then such decisions are subject to constitutional and judicial review.
Simple answer:
Two principle methods of amending the constitution are provided.
1. Both Senate and House can propose an amendment by a two-thirds majority vote of both houses. or,
2. Two-thirds of the states' legislatures can call a constitutional convention to propose and amendment.
Then,
once an amendment has been proposed it must be ratified by the legislatures of two-thirds of the states.
Here is a link for anyone who wants to see the details.
Referendums are generally held at the state level, and each state has its own process for how to handle them, but usually they are by general popular vote, requiring only a simple majority unless a super-majority is specified in the referendum.
Once passed, then such decisions are subject to constitutional and judicial review.
The home of the soul is the Open Road.
- DH Lawrence
- DH Lawrence
All over bar the shouting?
Bryn Mawr;1498197 wrote: Standing down at the next elections is my understanding.
He could have had at least another two years at 80 grand plus expenses, maybe he is a conviction politician.......shock horror.
He could have had at least another two years at 80 grand plus expenses, maybe he is a conviction politician.......shock horror.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
All over bar the shouting?
LarsMac;1498199 wrote: Seems to me that such a small majority should not be able to absolutely define such important policy.
I suggest that the referendum was poorly planned and written to allow such a fiasco
Cameron thought it was a forgone conclusion to stay, and he would come out of it smelling of roses because was in batting for us, negotiating changes......sucker.
I suggest that the referendum was poorly planned and written to allow such a fiasco
Cameron thought it was a forgone conclusion to stay, and he would come out of it smelling of roses because was in batting for us, negotiating changes......sucker.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
All over bar the shouting?
Bruv;1498211 wrote: He could have had at least another two years at 80 grand plus expenses, maybe he is a conviction politician.......shock horror.
The irony is, once he's out of work, he will have to rely on his German wife.
The irony is, once he's out of work, he will have to rely on his German wife.
"He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire."
Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill
All over bar the shouting?
Bruv;1498211 wrote: He could have had at least another two years at 80 grand plus expenses, maybe he is a conviction politician.......shock horror.
An MEP since 19999 he has earned in that time mosre than most people will earn in foirty years. Were he a man of integrity he would have refused the salary or at very least not claimed expenses.
I have, however, said that I don't think that there is a legal basis for contesting the result so, therefore, I am not "trying to push for a re-referendum".
The Uk doesn't hv a written constitution nor a constitutuonal court it takes an act of parliemant to enact clause 50 or whatever it's called the PM cannot just do it without parliamentary authority to do so. A general election and the tories voted out and it's back to square one.
We should really hav another referendum it looks looke a lot of leave voters were voting as a protesrt vote afgainst the government and didn'lt really thnk leave would win.
An MEP since 19999 he has earned in that time mosre than most people will earn in foirty years. Were he a man of integrity he would have refused the salary or at very least not claimed expenses.
I have, however, said that I don't think that there is a legal basis for contesting the result so, therefore, I am not "trying to push for a re-referendum".
The Uk doesn't hv a written constitution nor a constitutuonal court it takes an act of parliemant to enact clause 50 or whatever it's called the PM cannot just do it without parliamentary authority to do so. A general election and the tories voted out and it's back to square one.
We should really hav another referendum it looks looke a lot of leave voters were voting as a protesrt vote afgainst the government and didn'lt really thnk leave would win.
All over bar the shouting?
gmc;1498222 wrote: An MEP since 19999 he has earned in that time mosre than most people will earn in foirty years. Were he a man of integrity he would have refused the salary or at very least not claimed expenses.
The Uk doesn't hv a written constitution nor a constitutuonal court it takes an act of parliemant to enact clause 50 or whatever it's called the PM cannot just do it without parliamentary authority to do so. A general election and the tories voted out and it's back to square one.
We should really hav another referendum it looks looke a lot of leave voters were voting as a protesrt vote afgainst the government and didn'lt really thnk leave would win.
If you didn't think a referendum was appropriate - and I'm not sure I heard you state that fact beforehand - why do you think it's appropriate to have another ? What would your position be if the vote was to Leave ..again ? Have another until you get the result you want ?
The Uk doesn't hv a written constitution nor a constitutuonal court it takes an act of parliemant to enact clause 50 or whatever it's called the PM cannot just do it without parliamentary authority to do so. A general election and the tories voted out and it's back to square one.
We should really hav another referendum it looks looke a lot of leave voters were voting as a protesrt vote afgainst the government and didn'lt really thnk leave would win.
If you didn't think a referendum was appropriate - and I'm not sure I heard you state that fact beforehand - why do you think it's appropriate to have another ? What would your position be if the vote was to Leave ..again ? Have another until you get the result you want ?
"He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire."
Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill
All over bar the shouting?
Saw today the argument that it took an act of parliament to join, so will take an act of parliament for us to leave. When we joined it was hammered out in parliament Ted Heath didn't just sign up off his own back.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
All over bar the shouting?
Snowfire;1498224 wrote: If you didn't think a referendum was appropriate - and I'm not sure I heard you state that fact beforehand - why do you think it's appropriate to have another ? What would your position be if the vote was to Leave ..again ? Have another until you get the result you want ?
It was held because cameron was playing politics with the eurosceptics in how own party - he thought it would shut them up. if he had had anysense he would have put in a priviso nthat ity had to be a majoprity of the voting population not those who voted It would be best to have another since there has now been a precedent set and it's not likely those who voted yes will accept anything less. It was eurosceptics that pushed for the first referendum to stay in the union. They lost and have been bleating about it ever since. If the majority was overwhelmimg I would accept it, you would think that the experience of the scottish referendum would have taught him that trying to scare people doesn't really work there are onmly one tory, one liberal and one labour mp in scotland you can take so much bull**** took him less than a day to start renaging on all his promises.
This farce is going to wreck and awful lot of lives it's the present generation that will lose out and racists have been given a green light.
The city of london looks like it's about to go down the toilet the end of the UK as a united kingdom seems ever likely and withiout scotland subsidising the english you are in deep ****.
The irony is, once he's out of work, he will have to rely on his German wife.
The irony is he is an immigrant himself. He should piss off back to france (they donlt kill protestants nowadays)- oh no he can't they don't want british spongers looking for another gravy train.
It was held because cameron was playing politics with the eurosceptics in how own party - he thought it would shut them up. if he had had anysense he would have put in a priviso nthat ity had to be a majoprity of the voting population not those who voted It would be best to have another since there has now been a precedent set and it's not likely those who voted yes will accept anything less. It was eurosceptics that pushed for the first referendum to stay in the union. They lost and have been bleating about it ever since. If the majority was overwhelmimg I would accept it, you would think that the experience of the scottish referendum would have taught him that trying to scare people doesn't really work there are onmly one tory, one liberal and one labour mp in scotland you can take so much bull**** took him less than a day to start renaging on all his promises.
This farce is going to wreck and awful lot of lives it's the present generation that will lose out and racists have been given a green light.
The city of london looks like it's about to go down the toilet the end of the UK as a united kingdom seems ever likely and withiout scotland subsidising the english you are in deep ****.
The irony is, once he's out of work, he will have to rely on his German wife.
The irony is he is an immigrant himself. He should piss off back to france (they donlt kill protestants nowadays)- oh no he can't they don't want british spongers looking for another gravy train.
All over bar the shouting?
gmc;1498237 wrote: It was held because cameron was playing politics with the eurosceptics in how own party - he thought it would shut them up. if he had had anysense he would have put in a priviso nthat ity had to be a majoprity of the voting population not those who voted It would be best to have another since there has now been a precedent set and it's not likely those who voted yes will accept anything less. It was eurosceptics that pushed for the first referendum to stay in the union. They lost and have been bleating about it ever since. If the majority was overwhelmimg I would accept it, you would think that the experience of the scottish referendum would have taught him that trying to scare people doesn't really work there are onmly one tory, one liberal and one labour mp in scotland you can take so much bull**** took him less than a day to start renaging on all his promises.
This farce is going to wreck and awful lot of lives it's the present generation that will lose out and racists have been given a green light.
The city of london looks like it's about to go down the toilet the end of the UK as a united kingdom seems ever likely and withiout scotland subsidising the english you are in deep ****.
That isn't the answer to the question that I asked.
Further more it doesn't do you justice to blindly think that the leave vote was solely the responsibility of the "racists". That's a cop out.
This farce is going to wreck and awful lot of lives it's the present generation that will lose out and racists have been given a green light.
The city of london looks like it's about to go down the toilet the end of the UK as a united kingdom seems ever likely and withiout scotland subsidising the english you are in deep ****.
That isn't the answer to the question that I asked.
Further more it doesn't do you justice to blindly think that the leave vote was solely the responsibility of the "racists". That's a cop out.
"He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire."
Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill
All over bar the shouting?
It is worth watching tonights Panorama, if you haven't already.
It looks like the vote was a protest about the rate of immigration, me and my immigrant wife can relate to that. My immigrant wife has had problems getting a doctors appointment over the past few months, but Polish comestibles now have several sections in most shops. Talking about shopping, I have a game with my missus to see how many languages we can spot on our shopping trips, the average is 4 including English.
The problem is that they relate the problems/changes in our lives, directly to the dramatic increase in foreign languages in our High streets, rather than blame the people in charge of policy making regarding the likes of housing and NHS funding.
It is like the Romanians caused Tata steel to relocate, or the sell off of council homes, causing the housing shortage was a direct result of Polish builders.
The pressure on schools and the NHS has obvious repercussions from the unpredictable growth in migrants.
So I agree with gmc the reasons for the vote was a protest related to the EU but not directly caused by it.
It looks like the vote was a protest about the rate of immigration, me and my immigrant wife can relate to that. My immigrant wife has had problems getting a doctors appointment over the past few months, but Polish comestibles now have several sections in most shops. Talking about shopping, I have a game with my missus to see how many languages we can spot on our shopping trips, the average is 4 including English.
The problem is that they relate the problems/changes in our lives, directly to the dramatic increase in foreign languages in our High streets, rather than blame the people in charge of policy making regarding the likes of housing and NHS funding.
It is like the Romanians caused Tata steel to relocate, or the sell off of council homes, causing the housing shortage was a direct result of Polish builders.
The pressure on schools and the NHS has obvious repercussions from the unpredictable growth in migrants.
So I agree with gmc the reasons for the vote was a protest related to the EU but not directly caused by it.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
All over bar the shouting?
Snowfire;1498238 wrote: That isn't the answer to the question that I asked.
Further more it doesn't do you justice to blindly think that the leave vote was solely the responsibility of the "racists". That's a cop out.
Actually I did.
It would be best to have another since there has now been a precedent set and it's not likely those who voted yes will accept anything less.
Further more it doesn't do you justice to blindly think that the leave vote was solely the responsibility of the "racists".
Where have I said that? It is obviously a factor though.
The scottiush referendum is a different affair from the euro one. The snp were elected by proportional representation with the referendum on their manifesto and one of the ooptions they had weas looking at a more devolved perliament shor of com plete independence it was cameron that kept a third option of a more federal union off the table. The tories were elected on a forst past the post basis with the overall majority of people voting against them tories the leave vote is more of a protest vote (IMO) than it was a vote against being a member of the eu. As the consequences sink in I think a lot of people with change their minds. That's why I would like a second referendum.
Theresa May was the one who tried to suopend habeius corpus, there are already calls to repeal parts of the race relations act and to do away with the human rights act. England has taken a massive lurch to the right and racism be it against euriopeans or people of ethnic origin played a big part in it. The number of race attacks is on the rise this vote has legitimised racism again. It's not the sole reason but it would be niave to pretend it's not a factor. Although politicans have been ignoring the fears of ordinary people aboutthe effects about immigration for a long time with the consequences we now see but the bulk of immigration thatn bhas changes the character of our population has actually been from non eu countries.
Further more it doesn't do you justice to blindly think that the leave vote was solely the responsibility of the "racists". That's a cop out.
Actually I did.
It would be best to have another since there has now been a precedent set and it's not likely those who voted yes will accept anything less.
Further more it doesn't do you justice to blindly think that the leave vote was solely the responsibility of the "racists".
Where have I said that? It is obviously a factor though.
The scottiush referendum is a different affair from the euro one. The snp were elected by proportional representation with the referendum on their manifesto and one of the ooptions they had weas looking at a more devolved perliament shor of com plete independence it was cameron that kept a third option of a more federal union off the table. The tories were elected on a forst past the post basis with the overall majority of people voting against them tories the leave vote is more of a protest vote (IMO) than it was a vote against being a member of the eu. As the consequences sink in I think a lot of people with change their minds. That's why I would like a second referendum.
Theresa May was the one who tried to suopend habeius corpus, there are already calls to repeal parts of the race relations act and to do away with the human rights act. England has taken a massive lurch to the right and racism be it against euriopeans or people of ethnic origin played a big part in it. The number of race attacks is on the rise this vote has legitimised racism again. It's not the sole reason but it would be niave to pretend it's not a factor. Although politicans have been ignoring the fears of ordinary people aboutthe effects about immigration for a long time with the consequences we now see but the bulk of immigration thatn bhas changes the character of our population has actually been from non eu countries.
All over bar the shouting?
I don't think people are necessarily racist who complain of queues at their doctor surgeries or that their children can't get a council house.
The fact they blame it on foreigners isn't racist either.
If Norfolk was flooded and it's population were relocated throughout the UK, I think you would get the same sort of protest about Norfolk accents.
The fact they blame it on foreigners isn't racist either.
If Norfolk was flooded and it's population were relocated throughout the UK, I think you would get the same sort of protest about Norfolk accents.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
All over bar the shouting?
Bruv;1498261 wrote: I don't think people are necessarily racist who complain of queues at their doctor surgeries or that their children can't get a council house.
The fact they blame it on foreigners isn't racist either.
If Norfolk was flooded and it's population were relocated throughout the UK, I think you would get the same sort of protest about Norfolk accents.
Neither do I what I said was
The number of race attacks is on the rise this vote has legitimised racism again. It's not the sole reason but it would be niave to pretend it's not a factor. [QUOTE]Although politicans have been ignoring the fears of ordinary people aboutthe effects about immigration for a long time with the consequences we now see but the bulk of immigration thatn bhas changes the character of our population has actually been from non eu countries.
Race isn't really a factor to most people but becomes one when genuine causes of concern are ignored and the mass media carry unending reports of immigrants getting priority in housing and schooling and no plans are made to deal with an influx in to an area and anyone objecting is told they are being racist. Politicians have been ignoring the issue or years dismissing it as simple racism. The UK lets in more non eu nationals than it does eu nationals most of whom are of a different skin hue and religion making race a factor in this debate and race is a man made construct nazi disdain for the slavs is still around just look at some of the rhetoric from the likes of ukip about east europeans and tell me if you think it racist or not. For a lot of leave voters immigration seems to have been a big factor racist or not.
The fact they blame it on foreigners isn't racist either.
If Norfolk was flooded and it's population were relocated throughout the UK, I think you would get the same sort of protest about Norfolk accents.
Neither do I what I said was
The number of race attacks is on the rise this vote has legitimised racism again. It's not the sole reason but it would be niave to pretend it's not a factor. [QUOTE]Although politicans have been ignoring the fears of ordinary people aboutthe effects about immigration for a long time with the consequences we now see but the bulk of immigration thatn bhas changes the character of our population has actually been from non eu countries.
Race isn't really a factor to most people but becomes one when genuine causes of concern are ignored and the mass media carry unending reports of immigrants getting priority in housing and schooling and no plans are made to deal with an influx in to an area and anyone objecting is told they are being racist. Politicians have been ignoring the issue or years dismissing it as simple racism. The UK lets in more non eu nationals than it does eu nationals most of whom are of a different skin hue and religion making race a factor in this debate and race is a man made construct nazi disdain for the slavs is still around just look at some of the rhetoric from the likes of ukip about east europeans and tell me if you think it racist or not. For a lot of leave voters immigration seems to have been a big factor racist or not.
All over bar the shouting?
So......how do the powers that be address such non racist prejudices against different ethnicities ?
I can get wound up sitting in my own front room while my wife chats to family on her phone.......in a language I can't follow.......and I am laid back, how about the queues at the council where as you leave after being told 'no luck this week' an obvious migrant couple are beaming happily with keys in their hand ? It does happen I am sure.
I can get wound up sitting in my own front room while my wife chats to family on her phone.......in a language I can't follow.......and I am laid back, how about the queues at the council where as you leave after being told 'no luck this week' an obvious migrant couple are beaming happily with keys in their hand ? It does happen I am sure.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
All over bar the shouting?
Bruv;1498265 wrote: So......how do the powers that be address such non racist prejudices against different ethnicities ?
I can get wound up sitting in my own front room while my wife chats to family on her phone.......in a language I can't follow.......and I am laid back, how about the queues at the council where as you leave after being told 'no luck this week' an obvious migrant couple are beaming happily with keys in their hand ? It does happen I am sure.
If you go to germany, france, austria, you don't get to go to the front of the queue (I think not actually checked on that I do know that in austria you're in deep **** if british and unemployed) nor do you find leaflets printed in differnt languages. Most of the problems stem from the way the british governments have chosen to handle immigration and not just from the eu.
Not to worry thersa may is going to turf out all eu nationals from the Uk if she gets elected. Too bad if you are from the uk and settled in the eu. Sadly I rhinkfacism is alive and well and thriving in the UK.
Not to worry roll on scottish independence.
I can get wound up sitting in my own front room while my wife chats to family on her phone.......in a language I can't follow.......and I am laid back, how about the queues at the council where as you leave after being told 'no luck this week' an obvious migrant couple are beaming happily with keys in their hand ? It does happen I am sure.
If you go to germany, france, austria, you don't get to go to the front of the queue (I think not actually checked on that I do know that in austria you're in deep **** if british and unemployed) nor do you find leaflets printed in differnt languages. Most of the problems stem from the way the british governments have chosen to handle immigration and not just from the eu.
Not to worry thersa may is going to turf out all eu nationals from the Uk if she gets elected. Too bad if you are from the uk and settled in the eu. Sadly I rhinkfacism is alive and well and thriving in the UK.
Not to worry roll on scottish independence.
All over bar the shouting?
The British are extremely honest and naive in their dealings with immigrants I believe.
Housing is provided based on need, if an immigrant family arrive with no family support arrive at council offices they trump a local holed up in Mums front room with 2 kids.
Theresa May wants assurances both ways for all EU nationals, whatever country they are in........according to the news.
Housing is provided based on need, if an immigrant family arrive with no family support arrive at council offices they trump a local holed up in Mums front room with 2 kids.
Theresa May wants assurances both ways for all EU nationals, whatever country they are in........according to the news.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
All over bar the shouting?
Bruv;1498285 wrote: The British are extremely honest and naive in their dealings with immigrants I believe.
Housing is provided based on need, if an immigrant family arrive with no family support arrive at council offices they trump a local holed up in Mums front room with 2 kids.
Theresa May wants assurances both ways for all EU nationals, whatever country they are in........according to the news.
She seems to be lining it up as a bargaining chip. You can't have it both ways though, leave the eu because iof free movement if eu nationals and then want to keep it in place because it finally dawns on you that there are british nationals living abroad.
Housing is provided based on need, if an immigrant family arrive with no family support arrive at council offices they trump a local holed up in Mums front room with 2 kids.
Theresa May wants assurances both ways for all EU nationals, whatever country they are in........according to the news.
She seems to be lining it up as a bargaining chip. You can't have it both ways though, leave the eu because iof free movement if eu nationals and then want to keep it in place because it finally dawns on you that there are british nationals living abroad.