NHS Privatisation

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gmc
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Post by gmc »

Jeremy Hunt has made no secret of the fact he wants to end the NHS and privatise it aling american lines yet if you looked at the mainstream media you wouldn't know that you would just think he's beating down an intransigent union. All tyhe tories want to do is lift up britannias skirts and sell off anything they can in the name of a demented economic theory that has wrecked economies ariound the world.

I'm depressed. Never mind scotland might still go for indpendence not over europe but over anger at what the tories stand for - broken promises and lives ruined. Labou'rs policies are being made up on the back of a fag packet - now that's language you don't hear in westminster it takes two women from glasgow being polite to each other.
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Bryn Mawr
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Post by Bryn Mawr »

Yes, it's now official, we've returned to the feudal system where the masters can impose any working conditions they wish and contracts aren’t worth the paper they're written on. RIP Britannia :-(
Bruv
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Post by Bruv »

Why don't all the Doctors resign en masse ?
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Bryn Mawr
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Post by Bryn Mawr »

Bruv;1492660 wrote: Why don't all the Doctors resign en masse ?


They've a mortgage to pay and a family to feed?
Bruv
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Post by Bruv »

Bryn Mawr;1492661 wrote: They've a mortgage to pay and a family to feed?


It would be an orchestrated protest, all of them hand in resignation letters at 12.00 on an arranged date, giving a months notice, or whatever they are contractually required.

Mr Hunt might have to reconsider his position.
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Bryn Mawr
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Post by Bryn Mawr »

Bruv;1492662 wrote: It would be an orchestrated protest, all of them hand in resignation letters at 12.00 on an arranged date, giving a months notice, or whatever they are contractually required.

Mr Hunt might have to reconsider his position.


It would be nice if it could be so
gmc
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Post by gmc »

They could all refuse to sign and leave the government having to go through the process of firing them in which case I think they might be able to argue con structive dismissal. (I was listening to radio 4)

posted by bryn mawr

Yes, it's now official, we've returned to the feudal system where the masters can impose any working conditions they wish and contracts aren’t worth the paper they're written on. RIP Britannia :-(


What puzzles me is why so many see nothing wrong with it because opther people hace had to accept a drop in living standards. Also some doctors earn as much as £47,000 a tear. I'm still waitiung for someone pointing out that that is vecausew after years of training they are doing a job most people could not. You can't really compare a doctior with say a bus or train driver can you. Mp's earn a lot more and you don't need any brains for that do you.
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Bryn Mawr
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Post by Bryn Mawr »

gmc;1492670 wrote: They could all refuse to sign and leave the government having to go through the process of firing them in which case I think they might be able to argue con structive dismissal. (I was listening to radio 4)

posted by bryn mawr



What puzzles me is why so many see nothing wrong with it because opther people hace had to accept a drop in living standards. Also some doctors earn as much as £47,000 a tear. I'm still waitiung for someone pointing out that that is vecausew after years of training they are doing a job most people could not. You can't really compare a doctior with say a bus or train driver can you. Mp's earn a lot more and you don't need any brains for that do you.


Apparently there is a huge amount of churn within the NHS (the NHS don't employ you, the individual trust does and it is normal to move from one hospital to another frequently for career progression) and you cannot move without signing the new contract. Also, I was put in a situation once where it was "either sign this new contract or stay on you existing one and never get another promotion or pay rise.

My niece is an anaesthetist and the seven years at university was just the start of it - a doctor's training is the hardest and longest apprenticeship on the books and they deserve all they get. Put on top of that the horrendous hours they are forced to work and I don't know why anyone would put themselves through it.
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FourPart
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Post by FourPart »

£47,000 a year when they typically have to work 3 times as long as most people in order to do so isn't quite so impressive. Think of that as 3 different jobs. That makes it typically £16,000 per job. £16,000 is the lower end of the scale that I'm prepared to work for as an Administrator. Furthermore, the term "Junior" Doctor is misleading. It doesn't mean that they have only just moved up from being Student Doctors. It just means that they are Junior to the Consultants.

As to why the Government might want to Privatise the NHS - perhaps this might explain a few things.

'Selling off NHS for profit': Full list of MPs with links to private healthcare firms - Mirror Online
gmc
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Post by gmc »

FourPart;1492699 wrote: £47,000 a year when they typically have to work 3 times as long as most people in order to do so isn't quite so impressive. Think of that as 3 different jobs. That makes it typically £16,000 per job. £16,000 is the lower end of the scale that I'm prepared to work for as an Administrator. Furthermore, the term "Junior" Doctor is misleading. It doesn't mean that they have only just moved up from being Student Doctors. It just means that they are Junior to the Consultants.

As to why the Government might want to Privatise the NHS - perhaps this might explain a few things.

'Selling off NHS for profit': Full list of MPs with links to private healthcare firms - Mirror Online


At the heart of it is an idealogicaldesire to ubdo all the achieveme]nts of opost war socialism regardless of whether it works or not. Our media are doing us a great disservice in not reporting this objectively, the bbc is up for grabs as well and probably would have gone by now were it not for the hacking scandal with the murdoch group. Our politicians are an appalling bunch of self seeking hypocrites. PR wqouls make a huge difference - it did in scotland I would also like to see fiddling your expenses carry a jail sentence and being barred from political office iof any kind.
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Post by FourPart »

It would make more sense if they simply set the MPs salary a little higher & did away with expenses altogether. Either that or simply allowed each MP a set budget for items that fall within strict guidelines - and I don't believe 2nd homes should count. Hotel fees whlist working in the City, yes. Better still if the Government were to purchase an entire hotel near to Westminster purely for the use of MPs. Think how much that would save from the budget.
gmc
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Post by gmc »

Just in case anyone is under the illusion that the NHS is not under threat.

NHS for sale :: GOVERNMENT / POLITICIANS

71 coalition MPs who voted for NHS sell-off linked to health firms

Scots 'leading the way' in opposition to TITP, with almost 70 per cent against inclusion of the NHS | Politics | The National
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AnneBoleyn
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Post by AnneBoleyn »

We are begging for the health care you have, and you are throwing it away. Beware.
gmc
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Post by gmc »

AnneBoleyn;1494939 wrote: We are begging for the health care you have, and you are throwing it away. Beware.


When they liberals got in with enough seats top form a coalition they had a cgance to make major changes to out first part the post system but they completely blew it. we have a party in power that the vast majority of the electorate actually voted against that have made no secret of wanting to privatise the NHS and there seems to be nothing we can do about it. there are mass protests that get very little publicity in the main stream media throughout europe people are takin to the streets in protest against bthe ttip mtreaty ppart of which is the privatisation of health services and allowing companies to sue governments should they dare to bingb in lefgislation that affects their profits such as regulation on food safety and the like yet of you watch the maionstream press you would think nobody cares or is paying attention..

Only consolation is there might be a second scottish independence referendum that would be a yes this time.
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Post by Bruv »

During my hospital history I was farmed out to a private hospital for a CT scan, when given the appointment I had no idea it was private, but when we arrived at the hospital I was angry that I was to receive treatment funded by the NHS but in an outside agency.

My daughter just this past week has had an operation at a private hospital, my local hospital has recently had a private hospital opened within shared land.

The finances, to my mind, are crazy. Presumably the cost to the NHS, meaning all tax payers, must be greater than using the in-house staff and facilities.

I have been thinking about the Junior Doctor situation, and wonder if it has been part of a plan to cause problems within the NHS so that the government can push their ideology through as the only viable option
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gmc
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Post by gmc »

Bruv;1494992 wrote: During my hospital history I was farmed out to a private hospital for a CT scan, when given the appointment I had no idea it was private, but when we arrived at the hospital I was angry that I was to receive treatment funded by the NHS but in an outside agency.

My daughter just this past week has had an operation at a private hospital, my local hospital has recently had a private hospital opened within shared land.

The finances, to my mind, are crazy. Presumably the cost to the NHS, meaning all tax payers, must be greater than using the in-house staff and facilities.

I have been thinking about the Junior Doctor situation, and wonder if it has been part of a plan to cause problems within the NHS so that the government can push their ideology through as the only viable option


Seven day working with the same straff that currently cover for five days. If you were serious you would plan to take on more doctors before you introduce a change like that. They have also cut the numbert of traing places for nurses and taken away burseries for student nurses as well as cutting back on foctor training. I think it is done with the cynical intent of making the NHS fail ten years from now there won't be enough doctors or nurses and we'll end up paying more for a poorer service proc=vided priovately. Don;t forget it all ties in with the ttip treaty negotiations.

Was listening to the radio today, 90% of doctors suppoprt the strike so in the ineterests of balance guess who gets the most airtime.

Jeremy Hunt co-authored book calling for NHS to be replaced with private insurance | UK Politics | News | The Independent

It adds on page 78: “Our ambition should be to break down the barriers between private and public provision, in effect denationalising the provision of health care in Britain.”




There's a link to the actual pamphlet.
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Post by FourPart »

A lot of the time Politicians tend to confuse National Insurance with the National Health Service. Although National Insurance (and Taxes, of course) goes to fund the NHS, the problem is with the privatisation of the Care Providers. I have long believed that there would be no problem with it being possible to have Private Insurance companies who offer various deals to include Health Insurance, for which the Government would give them a discount from their National Insurance. However, if a person needs Health Care, it would still be done in an NHS hospital, only the bill would be footed by the Insurance Company rather than by the Tax Payer. However, this should never be a compulsory option, and National Insurance (including NHS cover) should still remain available to all.

Obviously the figures regarding viability would need careful revsion, but I imagine it could work. However, this is only regarding the Financing side of things - not the Private Providers.
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Post by Bruv »

FourPart;1495028 wrote: A lot of the time Politicians tend to confuse National Insurance with the National Health Service. Although National Insurance (and Taxes, of course) goes to fund the NHS, the problem is with the privatisation of the Care Providers. I have long believed that there would be no problem with it being possible to have Private Insurance companies who offer various deals to include Health Insurance, for which the Government would give them a discount from their National Insurance. However, if a person needs Health Care, it would still be done in an NHS hospital, only the bill would be footed by the Insurance Company rather than by the Tax Payer. However, this should never be a compulsory option, and National Insurance (including NHS cover) should still remain available to all.

Obviously the figures regarding viability would need careful revsion, but I imagine it could work. However, this is only regarding the Financing side of things - not the Private Providers.


I understand that Doctors can treat private patients in NHS Hospitals in NHS time with NHS facilities, if that is a fact, it is fundamentally wrong wrong wrong. It is like buying your food in Tesco and cooking it yourself in the Ritz.

Southend University Hospital
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Snowfire
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Post by Snowfire »

The budget for the NHS is well over £100 billion. Private corporations will do anything to get a slice of that. They must be jumping through hoops to get the Tories to privatise it, even by way of the back door.

Perfect opportunity.....TTIP The USA's scheme for reclaiming their domination of the global economy and the UK's part in supporting it is privatisation of the NHS.

Cloaked Truth does have some daft ideas but often has some good articles and videos

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Bruv
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Post by Bruv »

Discovered this on Twitter a Doctor comparing Sam Cameron's fashion advisors salary to his own after 14 years as a doctor........both the same........both Tax payers money.

Taxpayer 'pays for Samantha Cameron's £53,000-a-year fashion adviser'
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gmc
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Post by gmc »

Wonder if he works weekends.
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Post by FourPart »

Bruv;1495030 wrote: I understand that Doctors can treat private patients in NHS Hospitals in NHS time with NHS facilities, if that is a fact, it is fundamentally wrong wrong wrong. It is like buying your food in Tesco and cooking it yourself in the Ritz.

Southend University Hospital
That is so, and I consider it to be morally wrong, particularly when NHS patients are being turned away due to lack of beds.

However, the Private Patients & Private Doctors you speak of using NHS facilities are not getting those facilities at the expense of the NHS - they have to pay full whack for them.
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Post by Bruv »

FourPart;1495411 wrote: That is so, and I consider it to be morally wrong, particularly when NHS patients are being turned away due to lack of beds.

However, the Private Patients & Private Doctors you speak of using NHS facilities are not getting those facilities at the expense of the NHS - they have to pay full whack for them.


Wonder if Walkers would let Smiths use there kit to make crisps ?

(Don't know how that came into my head)
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Bruv
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Post by Bruv »

Is this mis information from the Out brigade ?

TTIP deal poses 'real and serious risk' to NHS
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gmc
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Post by gmc »

That's not coming fromn the out brigade it's coming from anyone with half a brain that does not want to see the NHS privatised. It's been an issue since befire the referendum not just here but throghout europe.

Thousands across Europe protest against TTIP – EurActiv.com

It's not just health service it means genetically modified food will be imported without you having the knowledge to not buy it. The US use hormees in the cattle that are banned in the Eu for heakth reason the lsit goes on and on.

TTIP campaigners hit back at Cameron claims that the NHS is protected under trade deal terms | Business News | News | The Independent

The NHS Support Federation found that 70 per cent of NHS contracts awarded between April 2013 and April 2014 went to private companies, covering everything from diagnosis to treatment.

These private sector companies include Hospital Corporation of America International, which has the third biggest private hospital operating in the UK and runs “private patient units” in NHS hospitals. The HCA is in part owned by an American private equity consortium including US private equity firms Bain Capital and Kohlberg Kravis Roberts.


It's a mistake to assume the tories are rational .
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Post by Bruv »

My brain can't get over how a company can sue a government without that government at some time agreeing to that possibility, and what government could allow that ?

They are telling us the talks are shrouded in secrecy, if they are that secret, how can they discuss them in the various parliaments involved ?
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Post by Bryn Mawr »

gmc;1495713 wrote: That's not coming fromn the out brigade it's coming from anyone with half a brain that does not want to see the NHS privatised. It's been an issue since befire the referendum not just here but throghout europe.

Thousands across Europe protest against TTIP – EurActiv.com

It's not just health service it means genetically modified food will be imported without you having the knowledge to not buy it. The US use hormees in the cattle that are banned in the Eu for heakth reason the lsit goes on and on.

TTIP campaigners hit back at Cameron claims that the NHS is protected under trade deal terms | Business News | News | The Independent



It's a mistake to assume the tories are rational .


But the out brigade are laying the blame for the decline of the NHS at the EU's door in an attempt to gain converts. As I said to the guy who pushed the leaflet into my hand, the UK government are totally to blame for that mess and trying to use it is just weakening your argument.
gmc
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Post by gmc »

Bruv;1495714 wrote: My brain can't get over how a company can sue a government without that government at some time agreeing to that possibility, and what government could allow that ?

They are telling us the talks are shrouded in secrecy, if they are that secret, how can they discuss them in the various parliaments involved ?


Wec have a media that is more interested in reposting tittle tattle that real investigation and a bbc running scared of being accused of politicval bias when they pointb out what a bunch of ****s our poiliticians are. You also need I think to look at the vested interests of those in power it's a mistake to assume they have anyone's interests at heart other than their own. Thay want to privatise the NHS because they can make money by doing so. The notion that some things should be run for the public good with no other motive than that is one they can'rt get their heads round. Just as the far left used to want to nationalise everything the right want it all privatised. That someone should run the provision of medical services with the sole aim of making a profit is one I find immoral just as they find the idea that medical care should be available to all free of charge regardless of circumstances is one they can't quite get their heads round.

Social Investigations: Key Facts of interests in healthcare

'Selling off NHS for profit': Full list of MPs with links to private healthcare firms - Mirror Online

I would let those who want to opt out of the nhs and opt out of paying for it as well the freedom to do so just so long as they accept that having opoted for private mediucal care that should they lose their income through ill health or end up with a debilitating illness that costs an absolute fortune to pay for and they can't afford they will be left to die if they can't pay. bet you there would be very few takers yet

I would also make it illegal for an MP to have interests in any sort of private company and when they lose their seats a moratorium on any minister taking a job with any form that was affected by decuisijns they made while in office.
Bruv
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Post by Bruv »

With the latest NHS deficit it looks like we are being prepared for something.
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gmc
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Post by gmc »

I have difficulty believing anyone who doesn't know the tories want to privatise the NHS, Trouble is so did new labour.

looks like the queens speech might get voted down.

Patrick Harvie: TTIP rebels prove we must own EU’s future | Comment | The National



you have to look rather hard to find the topic mentioned in UK press.
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