Jeremy Corbyn?

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gmc
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Jeremy Corbyn?

Post by gmc »

The 9 charts that show the ‘left-wing’ policies of Jeremy Corbyn the public actually agrees with - UK Politics - UK - The Independent

Never actually heard of him before. Ouitside of london and the souith east I suspect he might have more appeal. Fed up with a mass media including the bbc that seem to be of the opinion that left wing policies are a bad thing and don;t seem to make the connection that it ios left wing policies that brought us the welfare state and all the other things that poeople take for granted and that the tories want to dismantle. People don't vote because both parties are basicaly the same.
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On the Rainbow of Politics (with Red being Labour & Violet being Tory), I guess I'm Yellow (Rchard Of York Gave Battle In Vain, for those of you that can't remember the colours of the rainbow), and believe that in order for any Political System to work there has to be a mixture of both elements. Extremism of either side will never come close to meeting the needs of everyone, and the more extreme it becomes, the fewer people it serves.

Jeremy Corbyn seems to be very much at the Red end of the spectrum, which the Labour Party do need, but not by that much. Of course, what is more worrying still is the way that the Conservatives are encouraging their members to pay their £3 fee to Labour in order to be able to vote for him as Leader of the Labour Party, in the belief that he will do Labour more harm than good. Perhaps they're right. Perhaps not, but one thing's for sure, if anyone were to ask me the name of any of the competition candidates & what they stand for, I wouldn't have a clue.

However, policies aside, he would need to smarten up his public image in order to gain credibility. All he would need is an official tabard & he could easily pass for a Big Issue Vendor. I know that the theory of that is shallow & that he should only be judged on what he has to offer. Unfortunately, in the real world, things don't happen that way.
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Post by gmc »

FourPart;1483102 wrote: On the Rainbow of Politics (with Red being Labour & Violet being Tory), I guess I'm Yellow (Rchard Of York Gave Battle In Vain, for those of you that can't remember the colours of the rainbow), and believe that in order for any Political System to work there has to be a mixture of both elements. Extremism of either side will never come close to meeting the needs of everyone, and the more extreme it becomes, the fewer people it serves.

Jeremy Corbyn seems to be very much at the Red end of the spectrum, which the Labour Party do need, but not by that much. Of course, what is more worrying still is the way that the Conservatives are encouraging their members to pay their £3 fee to Labour in order to be able to vote for him as Leader of the Labour Party, in the belief that he will do Labour more harm than good. Perhaps they're right. Perhaps not, but one thing's for sure, if anyone were to ask me the name of any of the competition candidates & what they stand for, I wouldn't have a clue.

However, policies aside, he would need to smarten up his public image in order to gain credibility. All he would need is an official tabard & he could easily pass for a Big Issue Vendor. I know that the theory of that is shallow & that he should only be judged on what he has to offer. Unfortunately, in the real world, things don't happen that way.


If that is true it may backfire on them showing them up as the cynical lowlifes that think politics is just a game that they are. People don't like being patronised or tken for granted or for idiots although Labour in scotland haven't grasped that yet and just thin k they need better spin. Most people IMO see parliament and politicians as venal and corrupt as it is.

Corbyn did make the telling point that membership of the labour party under blair and brown plummeted I don't think labour grasp what a poisoned chalice blair now is to many ordinary voters having him criticise a move to the left and moot forgetting principles and doing what gets them elected is hardly7 likely IMO to win labour many converts if his acolytes win again.
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Post by Bruv »

Very many years ago when I was in conflict with the newly created Child Support Agency I wrote to many MP's to state my case, Jeremy Corbyn was one of the few that actually sent me a proper reply.

I have always thought of him as Tony Benn lite but without the high visibility that Benn gained. He is a conviction politician, one of only a few these days.

I can never understand the feeling amongst Labour that they should lean closer to the Tories and that their core values are somehow redundant these days.

There is still a lingering embarrassment about the Looney Left hanging on since the winter of discontent caused by the Labour supported Unions that needed to be crushed......that is how I see it.......not that I think that is correct. Like kids brought up strict catholic, Maggie has left the British with obsessional and excessive guilt/fear of trades unions.

I think chugging along in the middle of the political road causes problems, what we need is an occasional extreme swing one way or the other.

We had it after the war creating the world most of us grew up in, created by the left, all the social infrastructure that makes a humane society work for the people. Then along came the right wing,ideologically smashing it all up, now we need the Left to return.

The swings help to prune the excesses of the opposite extreme party. Keeps the nutters from either side taking over.

Ideally I would opt for a left leaning socialist run country, but realistically believe that complacency sets in and that all powers that be need a kick up the ass on a regular basis, just to keep them on their toes.



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Post by LarsMac »

I found this article somewhat interesting.

Donald Trump and Jeremy Corbyn Are Running the Same Con on Voters
“All it takes to get elected in twenty-first-century America is a mob of frightened sheep and a wolf with a nice smile,”
― Greg Bear, Darwin's Children
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Post by spot »

That's shockingly unfair. Mr Corbin, along with his fellow-Islington MP Chris Smith, put in laudable public service to their constituents when I was one of them. The blog article simply fails to understand that their position is no more and no less than the traditional Socialism the Labour Party represented between its birth before the Great War and its extinction at the hands of that wretched calamity Tony Blair.
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I still agree with the ideals that Tony Blair stood for. You can't have an either or situation with extreme right or extreme left. There has to be some degree of compromise to reach the Goldilocks effect.
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Post by Bruv »

FourPart;1483119 wrote: I still agree with the ideals that Tony Blair stood for.


What kin ideals ?...............sorry ladies.
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Iron yer shirt and put a tie on Mr Corbyn. This is a job interview.
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Post by Snowfire »

Bruv;1483146 wrote: What kin ideals ?...............sorry ladies.


Those "ideals" have made him a 'kin rich bastard.......sorry ladies.

Oh, and his missus.
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Post by Bruv »

Snowfire;1483149 wrote: Iron yer shirt and put a tie on Mr Corbyn. This is a job interview.


He has the job, if I was on the committee.
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Post by Snowfire »

Bruv;1483151 wrote: He has the job, if I was on the committee.


Don't get me wrong. I'd be calling him back for a second interview but would prefer if he understood that the job requires a little less casualness. It's what let Michael Foot down.
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Post by Bruv »

Snowfire;1483155 wrote: Don't get me wrong. I'd be calling him back for a second interview but would prefer if he understood that the job requires a little less casualness. It's what let Michael Foot down.


Just give him the job and send him down to Burtons
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Post by Snowfire »

Bruv;1483157 wrote: Just give him the job and send him down to Burtons


They'd send him on his way with a pair of three quarter camouflage shorts and a logo'd T shirt
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Snowfire;1483155 wrote: Don't get me wrong. I'd be calling him back for a second interview but would prefer if he understood that the job requires a little less casualness. It's what let Michael Foot down.


That so-called Donkey Jacket had a designer label on its inside pocket. It just wasn't a suit.
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spot;1483160 wrote: That so-called Donkey Jacket had a designer label on its inside pocket. It just wasn't a suit.


That designer jacket was two sizes too big and was a millstone round his neck. Unfortunately, society lends importance to gentlemen in office being appropriately attired. My job thankfully only requires me to be dressed. It's why I sometimes go to work dressed as a Japanese general
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LarsMac;1483116 wrote: I found this article somewhat interesting.

Donald Trump and Jeremy Corbyn Are Running the Same Con on Voters


American commentators seem to me to not quite "get" the vicseral nature of left and right wing politics in the UK and europe as well come to that and that socialism is not the black and white creature it seems to be in the states.

If they'd been around in 1776 I suspect they would have dismissed the declaration of independence with it's it's notions of equality and justice for all as a ridiculous fantasy that ignores human nature that can only end in bloodshed and ruin for those taken in by it.

Labour was the first price, the original purchase - money that was paid for all things. It was not by gold or by silver, but by labour, that all wealth of the world was originally purchased.

Adam Smith


Wealth of nations supposedly tne father of capitalism. He would be birling in his grave at the way his ideas are used - don't foget he also influenced the likes of karl marx - every time I hear a right wing economist talk about monetarism or how bankers and financial services are wealth creatorsand they just need to wave a magic wand I want to throw things at the tv. Thatcher and later tony blair came out with that kind of crap and it's such ridiculous nonsense. Left wing economics is just as wromg in it's own way we need somewhere in the middle.
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Flash news - Red Ken endorses candidate!

That'll be all they talk about down my local tonight, then.

"Mr Livingstone said the left-winger had "electrified" the campaign and was connecting with the public."

Jeremy Corbyn could be prime minster - Ken Livingstone - BBC News
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I have never understood why the label Red attached to Ken is derogatory.

I hope his support doesn't give Corbyn the kiss of death.
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The Russian "krasnaya" can be translated either as "red" or as "beautiful" and has been applied as a punning endearment to Mr Livingstone for as long as I can remember. Anyone who applies it intending to derogate the chap should take a remedial course in civility.

I would have been delighted if Mr Livingstone had become Prime Minister himself. The slick unachievable broken promises of Tony Blair and the New Labour movement prevented it from happening.
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gmc;1483169 wrote: American commentators seem to me to not quite "get" the vicseral nature of left and right wing politics in the UK and europe as well come to that and that socialism is not the black and white creature it seems to be in the states.

If they'd been around in 1776 I suspect they would have dismissed the declaration of independence with it's it's notions of equality and justice for all as a ridiculous fantasy that ignores human nature that can only end in bloodshed and ruin for those taken in by it.



Wealth of nations supposedly tne father of capitalism. He would be birling in his grave at the way his ideas are used - don't foget he also influenced the likes of karl marx - every time I hear a right wing economist talk about monetarism or how bankers and financial services are wealth creatorsand they just need to wave a magic wand I want to throw things at the tv. Thatcher and later tony blair came out with that kind of crap and it's such ridiculous nonsense. Left wing economics is just as wromg in it's own way we need somewhere in the middle.


Can't disagree. It is fascinating that our furthest left leaning politico in the hunt for the White House is pretty far Right.

We could use a few good Socialists in the political arena, these days.

Of course in a world where left and right are now defined as Stalin and Hitler, What can we expect?
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I think you need a third party if you want to achieve that. Those who have tried setting one up in America have tended to be jailed for long periods on bogus charges. I think you have a political system dominated by those who control law enforcement, and it's been firmly set into a two-party system for a very long time now.
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spot;1483176 wrote: The Russian "krasnaya" can be translated either as "red" or as "beautiful" and has been applied as a punning endearment to Mr Livingstone for as long as I can remember. Anyone who applies it intending to derogate the chap should take a remedial course in civility.

I would have been delighted if Mr Livingstone had become Prime Minister himself. The slick unachievable broken promises of Tony Blair and the New Labour movement prevented it from happening.


Yeah, I'm sure they were all gay Russian language scholars hurling that word at the man as a term of endearment.
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LarsMac;1483177 wrote: Can't disagree. It is fascinating that our furthest left leaning politico in the hunt for the White House is pretty far Right.

We could use a few good Socialists in the political arena, these days.

Of course in a world where left and right are now defined as Stalin and Hitler, What can we expect?


I thought that Obama was seen as a left wing reactionary.
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Post by spot »

Bruv;1483179 wrote: Yeah, I'm sure they were all gay Russian language scholars hurling that word at the man as a term of endearment.


You may mock, but the facts are plain. The earlier fellow at Leyland, Red Robbo, was an entirely different matter, "Red" in that instance referring to his choleric temperament. Nobody could call Mr Livingstone choleric. Mr Livingstone is your definitive Mister Cool.
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Bruv;1483180 wrote: I thought that Obama was seen as a left wing reactionary.


Only by the people so far out on the right fringe that they think Romney is a centrist.

Most Americans can't even tell Left from Right, anymore
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spot;1483176 wrote: The Russian "krasnaya" can be translated either as "red" or as "beautiful" and has been applied as a punning endearment to Mr Livingstone for as long as I can remember. Anyone who applies it intending to derogate the chap should take a remedial course in civility.

I would have been delighted if Mr Livingstone had become Prime Minister himself. The slick unachievable broken promises of Tony Blair and the New Labour movement prevented it from happening.


Our delightful press would make it impossible and have done since as far as I can remember. The Sun, I remember back in the eighties, would entertain us with lists of the "most odious" people in politics. Ken Livingstone was certainly one of them, Mo Mowlem (yes, she who did more for peace in N.I. than anyone) was on the list. I'd like to remember the others but it my memory fails me.

Chuka was my preference before he bailed out. Smart in every way and bags of charisma. If Labour fail with Corbyn at the next General Election, they would be well advised to persuade him back into contention
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Post by spot »

Snowfire;1483185 wrote: Our delightful press would make it impossible and have done since as far as I can remember. The Sun, I remember back in the eighties, would entertain us with lists of the "most odious" people in politics. Ken Livingstone was certainly one of them, Mo Mowlem (yes, she who did more for peace in N.I. than anyone) was on the list. I'd like to remember the others but it my memory fails me.


In the late 1980s, Mullin was frequently targeted by the right-wing, tabloid press for his left-wing views. Headlines included, '20 things you didn't know about crackpot Chris', 'Loony Lefty MP', and 'Is this the most odious man in Britain?' Mullin recounted this in a speech to Parliament in 1997: 'When I was first elected in 1987, The Sun published photographs across a full page of what it called "Kinnock's Top Ten Loony Tunes": I was No. 8. If my memory serves me right, at least one of those who was higher than I in that top 10 has been appointed to the Government—I shall mention no names.I now keep my Sun headlines framed on the wall of my study at home.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Mul ... itician%29



Were it not so outrageously expensive at £25 I'd recommend "Culture Wars: The Media and the British Left" By James Curran, Julian Petley, Ivor Gaber. You might reed the page at https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=ocd ... 22&f=false
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spot;1483183 wrote: You may mock, but the facts are plain. The earlier fellow at Leyland, Red Robbo, was an entirely different matter, "Red" in that instance referring to his choleric temperament. Nobody could call Mr Livingstone choleric. Mr Livingstone is your definitive Mister Cool.


Are you telling me you believe Red Robbo and Red Ken got their nicknames by being red faced with anger ?
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Post by spot »

Bruv;1483189 wrote: Are you telling me you believe Red Robbo and Red Ken got their nicknames by being red faced with anger ?


No, just the first one. I have never heard of any occasion when Mr Livingstone lost control of his temper.
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spot;1483193 wrote: No, just the first one. I have never heard of any occasion when Mr Livingstone lost control of his temper.


So.............the Red must have another origin, I think it might be the Red flag and the Red army and all the connotations that involves.
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I find it depressing that you dont know. The red flag was first used during the french revolution and went on to become associated with socialism and revolution. It was used in the revolts in 1848 and the paris commune (yes the lady carrying the torch of liberty that inspoired the statue of liberty was a socialist revolutionary.) thebred flag weas flown by the communists in russia during the 1917 revolution and in germany and the UK (red clydeside and all that) the labour party still sing (I think) the red flag at the end of their conferences you might recognise it as O tannenbaum or o chriostmas tree since it's based in a traditional german folk tune.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_flag_%28politics%29





Red ken was the elected head of the GLC that kept being re-elected the GLC was disbanded by thatcher it being the only way she could impose her policies on londoners.

It's classic political tactics to attack the person rather than deal with the points they are raising.When you listen to corbyn being interviewed or indeed nicola sturgeon they get barracked rather and interupted than get a chance to answer. Watch the interview with corbyn and you'll see what I mean.

The establishment would seem to be ****ting itself.
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Yvette Cooper and Blair pick on Corbyn following a spectacularly bad election for Labour as if they know better than the people flooding to support him.

Then the suggestion that he is such a looser that the opposition is paying their £3 to vote him into the leadership.

The sheer bloody arrogance of these people, why don't they listen to the people's voices ?
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Post by Bryn Mawr »

Bruv;1484108 wrote: Yvette Cooper and Blair pick on Corbyn following a spectacularly bad election for Labour as if they know better than the people flooding to support him.

Then the suggestion that he is such a looser that the opposition is paying their £3 to vote him into the leadership.

The sheer bloody arrogance of these people, why don't they listen to the people's voices ?


Doesn't look like arrogance to me, looks like they're running scared and trying to mug the electorate - again!
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Grassroots Labour would seem to want its party back.

I'd much rather have a Socialist opposition than two Capitalist parties swapping turns. We are, after all, not yet Americanized to that extent.
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Bryn Mawr;1484149 wrote: Doesn't look like arrogance to me, looks like they're running scared and trying to mug the electorate - again!


The arrogance is thinking they know better than the grass root members who are voting for him.
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Bruv;1484252 wrote: The arrogance is thinking they know better than the grass root members who are voting for him.


Noooo - they know that they don't know better, they're just trying to stampede them into going against their own wishes. As a tactic it's works well enough in the past - ask GMC about the referendum!
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Listening to Andy Burnham, suggesting that if he became Labour leader, he would "reach out to Jeremy Corbyn" and involve him in rebuilding the party. It made me cringe. He doesnt come across much different to Milliband. Just so insincere. Not enough passion.
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Snowfire;1484284 wrote: Listening to Andy Burnham, suggesting that if he became Labour leader, he would "reach out to Jeremy Corbyn" and involve him in rebuilding the party. It made me cringe. He doesnt come across much different to Milliband. Just so insincere. Not enough passion.


Definitely wet but at least he's made a stand and said he will not descend into namecalling - for all that Yevette whats'erface insulted him for doing so (thereby guaranteeing she won't get my vote).
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Post by Bruv »

Bryn Mawr;1484283 wrote: Noooo - they know that they don't know better, they're just trying to stampede them into going against their own wishes. As a tactic it's works well enough in the past - ask GMC about the referendum!


I think I know what you are saying, but that makes them all self serving, non socialist, non democratic, unelectable cow sons.

When will they learn ?
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Post by Bryn Mawr »

Bruv;1484286 wrote: I think I know what you are saying, but that makes them all self serving, non socialist, non democratic, unelectable cow sons.

When will they learn ?


That's right - it makes them politicians :-(
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House of Lords: David Cameron warned new intake of peers will undermine effectiveness and cost taxpayer more than £1m - UK Politics - UK - The Independent

Meanwhile benefit scroungers and immigrants are ruining the country despite the best effort of politicians and bankers. The south east is it really so hostile to left wing politics?

I think at the end of this parliament the reaction against tory policies will be loud but if we end up with a government elected by less than a third of the vopters yet again maybe we will get electoal reform at the very least a second referendum in scotland is altogether more likely. My biggest criticism against the lib dems is that they missed out on a chance to make PR a reality. The tories have big windows - they saw the leader of the libdems coming (what was his name for the life of me I can't remember).
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Labour leader front runner Jeremy Corbyn has promised to apologise for the Iraq War on behalf of the party if he becomes leader.

That'll do the trick.
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The Labour Party must have a death wish, following the suggestion opposition parties were signing up to vote for Corbyn, the latest is that known Corbyn supporters and long term Labour supporters are banned from voting
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Not exactly democracy, is it? You can vote anyway you like, as long as it's the way we want you to, or you're out!

Pathetic, mealy-mouthed, platitude-spouting, nascent quasi-dictators.
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Bryn Mawr
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Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2006 4:54 pm

Jeremy Corbyn?

Post by Bryn Mawr »

Bruv;1484550 wrote: The Labour Party must have a death wish, following the suggestion opposition parties were signing up to vote for Corbyn, the latest is that known Corbyn supporters and long term Labour supporters are banned from voting


Then the vote is unconstitutional and therefore invalid.
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FourPart
Posts: 6437
Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2014 3:12 am

Jeremy Corbyn?

Post by FourPart »

The fact that Gordon Brown seems to be implying an endorsement of Yvette Cooper (although, apparently not outright) I would see as reason enough NOT to vote for her. He was the reason I didn't vote Labour (for the first time since the 70s) at the last election, so whatever he says, I would tend to lean to the opposite.

I have recently been getting flooded with emails from all the candidates for Leader & Deputy Leader, spamming me for my vote (being a member of Unison, I am entitled to a vote), yet none of them say anything about how I should go about placing my vote - if it can be done online, or where. If I knew, I probably would vote - and probably for Jeremy Corbyn, as he's the only one that seems to have any up front character & sense of leadership. But as no-one's told me how I'm supposed to vote, this is one wasted ballot.
Bruv
Posts: 12181
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2007 3:05 pm

Jeremy Corbyn?

Post by Bruv »

Bryn Mawr;1484556 wrote: Then the vote is unconstitutional and therefore invalid.


So when Corbyn wins they will blame the nasty Tory conspiracy and call another election.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
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FourPart
Posts: 6437
Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2014 3:12 am

Jeremy Corbyn?

Post by FourPart »

The thing I find funniest is that Jeremy Corbyn is currently Labour's best hope for recovery, and the Tories are encouraging their member to pay their £3 in order to vote for him as Leader. Come on you Tories. Your money is welcome, as a bonus.
Bruv
Posts: 12181
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2007 3:05 pm

Jeremy Corbyn?

Post by Bruv »

FourPart;1484557 wrote: But as no-one's told me how I'm supposed to vote, this is one wasted ballot.


Try this link........HERE..........everything is a couple of clicks away on the internet.



Have you been missing in action ? I have noticed a shortage of posts coming from your good self.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth

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