Manifesto shows Tories will bar Scots MPs from voting on Budget | News | The National
The pledge to “extend the principle of English consent to financial matters such as how spending is distributed within England and to taxation – including an English rate of income tax – when equivalent decisions have been devolved to Scotland†would, both parties agreed, bar Scottish MPs from voting on the Budget.
“The Smith Agreement maintained the principle that income tax levels would continue to be determined by the UK government but now this document shows the real Tory agenda. How can you trust anything the Tories say now about protecting Scotland when they are setting out to break up the UK income tax system and with it the Barnett formula?â€
Since the budget also affects scotland it would seem we are no longer to be part of the union despite being conned otherwise. Cameron could possibly go down in history as the man who ended the united kingdom. I doubt even those conned by there referendum "vow" will stand for this.
Don't know what happens in the rest of the UK but right now the scots probably the most politicised in the UK and I bet you struggle to find mention of this in the mainstream media.
Labour UK ministers publicly rebuke party's Scottish branch manager Jim Murphy | Politics | The National
Murphy’s bad day started during an interview with Balls on BBC Radio 4’s Today programme. The Shadow Chancellor was asked if Murphy’s comment on Sunday’s leaders' debate about Labour not needing “to make further cuts†was true. Balls replied that it was not, saying: “Yes, there will be cuts outside non-protected areas across all these budgets, that will apply in England and in Scotland.â€
Balls later added that the cuts would be, “of course UK-wide†and that he could not “say to Scotland that you’re going to be exempt from spending cutsâ€.
His female predecessor was forced out by murphy and resigned claiming the scottish labour party was treated like a branch office all this does is cause labour supporters to leave in droves.
Surprise surprise - cameron goes back on vow
Surprise surprise - cameron goes back on vow
Where does Scotland’s wealth go? : Business for Scotland.
It is an accepted fact that every year for 30 years Scotland has generated more tax revenue per head for the UK treasury than the rest of the UK. The latest figures taken from the Government Expenditure and Revenue Report Scotland (GERS) state that Scotland generated £800 more in tax per person than the UK average. Scotland would have been £8.3 billion better off than the UK over the past 5 years.
Put simply, when the UK runs a surplus Scotland contributes more to the surplus, and when the UK runs a deficit Scotland has to pay more of the debt back than it is responsible for. It’s a “lose/lose†situation for Scottish tax payers and especially for those in need of support from the state.
What are you all stunned in to silence? You should be concerned because it is increasingly likely that there wil be another referendum as a result of public demand in scotland if cameron and miliband carry on in this vein and this time it won't be as friendly. Cameron poushed for a yes/no referendum believing a no vote was a dead cert and got the fright of his political career now he's reneging on the promise of more devolution that he and the other two leader made in a fit opf panic in the last week of the referendum. It takes a long time for people to get angry but he's goping about it the right way.
It is an accepted fact that every year for 30 years Scotland has generated more tax revenue per head for the UK treasury than the rest of the UK. The latest figures taken from the Government Expenditure and Revenue Report Scotland (GERS) state that Scotland generated £800 more in tax per person than the UK average. Scotland would have been £8.3 billion better off than the UK over the past 5 years.
Put simply, when the UK runs a surplus Scotland contributes more to the surplus, and when the UK runs a deficit Scotland has to pay more of the debt back than it is responsible for. It’s a “lose/lose†situation for Scottish tax payers and especially for those in need of support from the state.
What are you all stunned in to silence? You should be concerned because it is increasingly likely that there wil be another referendum as a result of public demand in scotland if cameron and miliband carry on in this vein and this time it won't be as friendly. Cameron poushed for a yes/no referendum believing a no vote was a dead cert and got the fright of his political career now he's reneging on the promise of more devolution that he and the other two leader made in a fit opf panic in the last week of the referendum. It takes a long time for people to get angry but he's goping about it the right way.
Surprise surprise - cameron goes back on vow
And here is another point of view...............Socialist Scotland is sleepwalking to bankruptcy
And the figures to back it up ?
And the figures to back it up ?
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
Surprise surprise - cameron goes back on vow
Were we in rality such a drain on the UK economy the westminster parties would be glad to see the back of us. The reality is
It is an accepted fact that every year for 30 years Scotland has generated more tax revenue per head for the UK treasury than the rest of the UK. The latest figures taken from the Government Expenditure and Revenue Report Scotland (GERS) state that Scotland generated £800 more in tax per person than the UK average. Scotland would have been £8.3 billion better off than the UK over the past 5 years.
It's the same source as the one you are referring to. Also both articles rather miss the main point of the snp argument that austerity is not the only answer nor are they suggestimng just spending for the sake of it. It's an economic argument adam smith would recognise that you need to spend money to help the economy grow and indeed is one he put forward in the wealth of nations you can't leave it all to the marketplace He was also one of the progenitors of socialism which the curtrent crop of so called capitalist theorists like to ignore. For one thing he had rather an lot to say about how bad cartels and monopolies were for business and would probably have been calling for the bankers to be jailed for what they hav done. Thatcher took public monopolies and turned them in to private ones so all the p[rofits now do abroad with ni re-investment. Only a demented loon would suggest that all turned out well. We subsidise the railways more than we did when they were publicly owned and the power companies are threatening to hold us all to ransom demanding subsidies beforeb they invest in infrastructure
It is an accepted fact that every year for 30 years Scotland has generated more tax revenue per head for the UK treasury than the rest of the UK. The latest figures taken from the Government Expenditure and Revenue Report Scotland (GERS) state that Scotland generated £800 more in tax per person than the UK average. Scotland would have been £8.3 billion better off than the UK over the past 5 years.
It's the same source as the one you are referring to. Also both articles rather miss the main point of the snp argument that austerity is not the only answer nor are they suggestimng just spending for the sake of it. It's an economic argument adam smith would recognise that you need to spend money to help the economy grow and indeed is one he put forward in the wealth of nations you can't leave it all to the marketplace He was also one of the progenitors of socialism which the curtrent crop of so called capitalist theorists like to ignore. For one thing he had rather an lot to say about how bad cartels and monopolies were for business and would probably have been calling for the bankers to be jailed for what they hav done. Thatcher took public monopolies and turned them in to private ones so all the p[rofits now do abroad with ni re-investment. Only a demented loon would suggest that all turned out well. We subsidise the railways more than we did when they were publicly owned and the power companies are threatening to hold us all to ransom demanding subsidies beforeb they invest in infrastructure
Surprise surprise - cameron goes back on vow
gmc;1477567 wrote: It's the same source as the one you are referring to
I don't really understand it, same figures different conclusions.
Perhaps the £800 extra tax per person is tax revenue, the map shows the wealth focused around Aberdeen, the financial argument gets clouded by were your politics lie.
I don't really understand it, same figures different conclusions.
Perhaps the £800 extra tax per person is tax revenue, the map shows the wealth focused around Aberdeen, the financial argument gets clouded by were your politics lie.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
Surprise surprise - cameron goes back on vow
Bruv;1477575 wrote: I don't really understand it, same figures different conclusions.
Perhaps the £800 extra tax per person is tax revenue, the map shows the wealth focused around Aberdeen, the financial argument gets clouded by were your politics lie.
In much the same way as Political Spin works by the massive wealth of the country, based on life in London.
Perhaps the £800 extra tax per person is tax revenue, the map shows the wealth focused around Aberdeen, the financial argument gets clouded by were your politics lie.
In much the same way as Political Spin works by the massive wealth of the country, based on life in London.
Surprise surprise - cameron goes back on vow
Bruv;1477575 wrote: I don't really understand it, same figures different conclusions.
Perhaps the £800 extra tax per person is tax revenue, the map shows the wealth focused around Aberdeen, the financial argument gets clouded by were your politics lie.
The map you're referring to shows the wealth CREATED and a concentration round aberdeen. The £800 is tax revenue, it's clear
he latest figures taken from the Government Expenditure and Revenue Report Scotland (GERS) state that Scotland generated £800 more in tax per person than the UK average. Scotland would have been £8.3 billion better off than the UK over the past 5 years.
The same argument applies top most of england, the wealth generated ends up in to london and the south east.
The thing about financial services that most people seem not to realise is that it does not actually make or generate anything they just move everbody elses money around and yes OK makes it grow but it is not a primary producer that is and always will be agruiculture and industrty. It's the ame with lawyers, accountants etc etc without the base they're spinning air.
Perhaps the £800 extra tax per person is tax revenue, the map shows the wealth focused around Aberdeen, the financial argument gets clouded by were your politics lie.
The map you're referring to shows the wealth CREATED and a concentration round aberdeen. The £800 is tax revenue, it's clear
he latest figures taken from the Government Expenditure and Revenue Report Scotland (GERS) state that Scotland generated £800 more in tax per person than the UK average. Scotland would have been £8.3 billion better off than the UK over the past 5 years.
The same argument applies top most of england, the wealth generated ends up in to london and the south east.
The thing about financial services that most people seem not to realise is that it does not actually make or generate anything they just move everbody elses money around and yes OK makes it grow but it is not a primary producer that is and always will be agruiculture and industrty. It's the ame with lawyers, accountants etc etc without the base they're spinning air.
Surprise surprise - cameron goes back on vow
Douibt you will see this in the mainstream media.
New Tory Evel plans are 'a democratic outrage' | Politics | The National
So does this mean that in future only scottish MP's will be able to vote on bills affecting scotland? - like the current scotland bill where labour and tory are combining to vote out amendments made by scots MP's.
Cameron is making another referendum a certainty and labour are not helpoing their chances of getting any seats in scotland.
New Tory Evel plans are 'a democratic outrage' | Politics | The National
So does this mean that in future only scottish MP's will be able to vote on bills affecting scotland? - like the current scotland bill where labour and tory are combining to vote out amendments made by scots MP's.
Cameron is making another referendum a certainty and labour are not helpoing their chances of getting any seats in scotland.
Surprise surprise - cameron goes back on vow
Sometimes events unfold with a kind of slow motion car crash certainty, everybody can see the end result, but nobody can alter the outcome whatever they do.
This is one of those events.
This is one of those events.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
Surprise surprise - cameron goes back on vow
gmc;1481730 wrote: Douibt you will see this in the mainstream media.
New Tory Evel plans are 'a democratic outrage' | Politics | The National
So does this mean that in future only scottish MP's will be able to vote on bills affecting scotland? - like the current scotland bill where labour and tory are combining to vote out amendments made by scots MP's.
Cameron is making another referendum a certainty and labour are not helpoing their chances of getting any seats in scotland.
What is wrong with only a country's own MPs getting to votes on issues that only affect their country? The Scottish have been voting on Scottish Law for years, without the English having a say in the matter, yet the Scottish have been able to vote on English only issues as well.
Sure, when the issues affect the entire Union, then everyone should get a vote, but when it has nothing to do with England / Scotland / Wales / N. Ireland, why should they get a vote? It's funny how they protest about the idea of the English getting to vote on Scottish issues, but when it comes to the Scottish not getting to vote on English issues - that's an entirely different matter.
New Tory Evel plans are 'a democratic outrage' | Politics | The National
So does this mean that in future only scottish MP's will be able to vote on bills affecting scotland? - like the current scotland bill where labour and tory are combining to vote out amendments made by scots MP's.
Cameron is making another referendum a certainty and labour are not helpoing their chances of getting any seats in scotland.
What is wrong with only a country's own MPs getting to votes on issues that only affect their country? The Scottish have been voting on Scottish Law for years, without the English having a say in the matter, yet the Scottish have been able to vote on English only issues as well.
Sure, when the issues affect the entire Union, then everyone should get a vote, but when it has nothing to do with England / Scotland / Wales / N. Ireland, why should they get a vote? It's funny how they protest about the idea of the English getting to vote on Scottish issues, but when it comes to the Scottish not getting to vote on English issues - that's an entirely different matter.
Surprise surprise - cameron goes back on vow
FourPart;1481732 wrote: What is wrong with only a country's own MPs getting to votes on issues that only affect their country? The Scottish have been voting on Scottish Law for years, without the English having a say in the matter, yet the Scottish have been able to vote on English only issues as well.
Sure, when the issues affect the entire Union, then everyone should get a vote, but when it has nothing to do with England / Scotland / Wales / N. Ireland, why should they get a vote? It's funny how they protest about the idea of the English getting to vote on Scottish issues, but when it comes to the Scottish not getting to vote on English issues - that's an entirely different matter.
Actually I agree with you and it is snp policy that their MP's do noit voter on english only issues - like education and health. )labour only got through their nhs trust hispitals and academies with the support of scottish labour MP's both issues that were non starters in scotland, in fact scotish labourr MSP's voted agaisnt them in sciotkand)) But when it comes to matters that will affect scotland like the budget and the funding for the NHS (of which we get a proportion) then we have every right to vote on it.
SNP's FFA amendment is voted down by Labour and the Tories | Politics | The National
An SNP amendment to the Scotland Bill that would give the Scottish Parliament full fiscal autonomy was defeated in a vote in the House of Commons last night by 508 votes to 56.
Remember the "vow " at the referendum it lasted a day before cameron reneged on it. The issue is not english votes for english lawsc it;s the fact that what they promised the scots is a seperate issue. All they're doing is making a second referendum more and more likely and this time I think it would be yes. This is all abouit hostility to the tories and labourb thoroughly failed economic policies. Austerity doesnl;t wiork it hasn't worked in greece where the eurocrats can't seem to grasp that the people might just not respond well to threats. The UK without scotland is bankrupt and no longer a major power you'd think they would take the hint and listen.
Sure, when the issues affect the entire Union, then everyone should get a vote, but when it has nothing to do with England / Scotland / Wales / N. Ireland, why should they get a vote? It's funny how they protest about the idea of the English getting to vote on Scottish issues, but when it comes to the Scottish not getting to vote on English issues - that's an entirely different matter.
Actually I agree with you and it is snp policy that their MP's do noit voter on english only issues - like education and health. )labour only got through their nhs trust hispitals and academies with the support of scottish labour MP's both issues that were non starters in scotland, in fact scotish labourr MSP's voted agaisnt them in sciotkand)) But when it comes to matters that will affect scotland like the budget and the funding for the NHS (of which we get a proportion) then we have every right to vote on it.
SNP's FFA amendment is voted down by Labour and the Tories | Politics | The National
An SNP amendment to the Scotland Bill that would give the Scottish Parliament full fiscal autonomy was defeated in a vote in the House of Commons last night by 508 votes to 56.
Remember the "vow " at the referendum it lasted a day before cameron reneged on it. The issue is not english votes for english lawsc it;s the fact that what they promised the scots is a seperate issue. All they're doing is making a second referendum more and more likely and this time I think it would be yes. This is all abouit hostility to the tories and labourb thoroughly failed economic policies. Austerity doesnl;t wiork it hasn't worked in greece where the eurocrats can't seem to grasp that the people might just not respond well to threats. The UK without scotland is bankrupt and no longer a major power you'd think they would take the hint and listen.
Surprise surprise - cameron goes back on vow
gmc;1481753 wrote: Actually I agree with you and it is snp policy that their MP's do noit voter on english only issues - like education and health. )labour only got through their nhs trust hispitals and academies with the support of scottish labour MP's both issues that were non starters in scotland, in fact scotish labourr MSP's voted agaisnt them in sciotkand)) But when it comes to matters that will affect scotland like the budget and the funding for the NHS (of which we get a proportion) then we have every right to vote on it.
SNP's FFA amendment is voted down by Labour and the Tories | Politics | The National
Remember the "vow " at the referendum it lasted a day before cameron reneged on it. The issue is not english votes for english lawsc it;s the fact that what they promised the scots is a seperate issue. All they're doing is making a second referendum more and more likely and this time I think it would be yes. This is all abouit hostility to the tories and labourb thoroughly failed economic policies. Austerity doesnl;t wiork it hasn't worked in greece where the eurocrats can't seem to grasp that the people might just not respond well to threats. The UK without scotland is bankrupt and no longer a major power you'd think they would take the hint and listen.
I don't think that their supreme arrogances in Westminster had any intention of actually honouring most of their pledges. You're right, GMC, It'll be the fault of successive dis-honourable abominations for "governments", if you can call them that. Personally, I'm disgusted with 'em, the whole septic, stinking, festering lot!!!
But I'm not in the least surprised.
To quote Spot again; " Bugger them all with large, blunt artifacts". I can go with that!!:mad:
SNP's FFA amendment is voted down by Labour and the Tories | Politics | The National
Remember the "vow " at the referendum it lasted a day before cameron reneged on it. The issue is not english votes for english lawsc it;s the fact that what they promised the scots is a seperate issue. All they're doing is making a second referendum more and more likely and this time I think it would be yes. This is all abouit hostility to the tories and labourb thoroughly failed economic policies. Austerity doesnl;t wiork it hasn't worked in greece where the eurocrats can't seem to grasp that the people might just not respond well to threats. The UK without scotland is bankrupt and no longer a major power you'd think they would take the hint and listen.
I don't think that their supreme arrogances in Westminster had any intention of actually honouring most of their pledges. You're right, GMC, It'll be the fault of successive dis-honourable abominations for "governments", if you can call them that. Personally, I'm disgusted with 'em, the whole septic, stinking, festering lot!!!
But I'm not in the least surprised.
To quote Spot again; " Bugger them all with large, blunt artifacts". I can go with that!!:mad:
" To finish first, first you have to finish!" Rick Mears. 4x Winner Indy 500. 3x Indycar National Champion.
Surprise surprise - cameron goes back on vow
Same story
You will never over-rule English MPs, David Cameron tells the SNP | Daily Mail Online
You will never over-rule English MPs, David Cameron tells the SNP as he rejects claims he was creating a 'second-class status' for Scottish MPs
You-never-rule-English-MPs-David-Cameron-tells-SNP
It's not as if they actually could in the first place.
PM under attack on English votes plan | Politics | The National
It is very interesting that 58 of 59 Scottish MPs have voted for the Scottish Bill to be strengthened but they have been outvoted by English MPs†said Robertson.
The SNP leader also pointed out to the Prime Minister that the majority of MPs on the Scottish Affairs Committee would represent English and Welsh constituencies.
“Is that what the Prime Minister means when he says he has a respect agenda?†Robertson asked.
Cameron retorted: “I notice none of Scotland’s 59 MPs are arguing that the state pension should be devolved. In other words the principle of pooling and sharing our resources and risks across the UK, which I believe in as leader of the UK, is apparently shared by the SNP.â€
Cameron said the respect agenda was making sure that “every single thing Lord Smith represented in terms of welfare has gone into the Billâ€.
The SNP later pointed out that the House of Commons library, amongst others had proved that recommendations from the Smith Commission were missing from the Scotland Bill.
Earlier, during a Westminster Hall debate SNP MP Pete Wishart claimed the proposals were being “rushed through at breakneck speed†and treated as if they were a “state secretâ€.
He said: “This has got to work both ways...you cannot have English members voting down the settled will of the Scottish people ... and then demand that we have no say in legislation that will impact very severely in some cases and have financial consequences on our constituents.â€
Was watching a debate on bbc scotland, the unionists basically just talk over the snp when they are answering any questions out to them one of them was alastair carmichael who is about to get kicked out by his own constituents. Hectoring and bullying in the long run just does not win debates in scotland. Most scots would have voted for devo max and most yes voters thought that is what they would get. It's like thatcer all over again the majorityb opposed her and her policies and yet she got away with everything now the tories are at it again and we're all supposed to pretend it's democracy in action.
You will never over-rule English MPs, David Cameron tells the SNP | Daily Mail Online
You will never over-rule English MPs, David Cameron tells the SNP as he rejects claims he was creating a 'second-class status' for Scottish MPs
You-never-rule-English-MPs-David-Cameron-tells-SNP
It's not as if they actually could in the first place.
PM under attack on English votes plan | Politics | The National
It is very interesting that 58 of 59 Scottish MPs have voted for the Scottish Bill to be strengthened but they have been outvoted by English MPs†said Robertson.
The SNP leader also pointed out to the Prime Minister that the majority of MPs on the Scottish Affairs Committee would represent English and Welsh constituencies.
“Is that what the Prime Minister means when he says he has a respect agenda?†Robertson asked.
Cameron retorted: “I notice none of Scotland’s 59 MPs are arguing that the state pension should be devolved. In other words the principle of pooling and sharing our resources and risks across the UK, which I believe in as leader of the UK, is apparently shared by the SNP.â€
Cameron said the respect agenda was making sure that “every single thing Lord Smith represented in terms of welfare has gone into the Billâ€.
The SNP later pointed out that the House of Commons library, amongst others had proved that recommendations from the Smith Commission were missing from the Scotland Bill.
Earlier, during a Westminster Hall debate SNP MP Pete Wishart claimed the proposals were being “rushed through at breakneck speed†and treated as if they were a “state secretâ€.
He said: “This has got to work both ways...you cannot have English members voting down the settled will of the Scottish people ... and then demand that we have no say in legislation that will impact very severely in some cases and have financial consequences on our constituents.â€
Was watching a debate on bbc scotland, the unionists basically just talk over the snp when they are answering any questions out to them one of them was alastair carmichael who is about to get kicked out by his own constituents. Hectoring and bullying in the long run just does not win debates in scotland. Most scots would have voted for devo max and most yes voters thought that is what they would get. It's like thatcer all over again the majorityb opposed her and her policies and yet she got away with everything now the tories are at it again and we're all supposed to pretend it's democracy in action.
Surprise surprise - cameron goes back on vow
It's a case of the old one, almost as dated as the chicken crossing the road...
Q. How do you know if a politician is lying.
A. His lips move.
Not exactly original, but still true nonetheless.
Q. How do you know if a politician is lying.
A. His lips move.
Not exactly original, but still true nonetheless.