Listening to the radio, in honour of guy fawkes night were asking for suggestions for songs about revolution.
Films like V portray him as someone who stood up against tyranny.
His mask is used now as something to be worn by protesters against oppression.
What happened? He wasn't a revolutionary he wanted to blow up parliament and a protestant king to restore rule by the divine right of (preferably catholic) kings. He was areactionary trying to stop a nescent democracy so when did he become an anti-establishment hero?
When did guy fawkes become a hero?
When did guy fawkes become a hero?
See what I mean?
Million Masks March 2014: Thousands gather for anti-capitalist protest in London - Home News - UK - The Independent
Am I the only one that finds it odd that an individual that wanted to destroy parliament and replace it with religious totalitarianism and the divine right of kings should be a hero?
Million Masks March 2014: Thousands gather for anti-capitalist protest in London - Home News - UK - The Independent
Am I the only one that finds it odd that an individual that wanted to destroy parliament and replace it with religious totalitarianism and the divine right of kings should be a hero?
When did guy fawkes become a hero?
gmc;1467286 wrote: See what I mean?
Million Masks March 2014: Thousands gather for anti-capitalist protest in London - Home News - UK - The Independent
Am I the only one that finds it odd that an individual that wanted to destroy parliament and replace it with religious totalitarianism and the divine right of kings should be a hero?
Well, after reviewing comments of facebook after our election, I am not sure I find it all that odd.
There seems a rather strong movement afoot to turn us into a theocracy.
Million Masks March 2014: Thousands gather for anti-capitalist protest in London - Home News - UK - The Independent
Am I the only one that finds it odd that an individual that wanted to destroy parliament and replace it with religious totalitarianism and the divine right of kings should be a hero?
Well, after reviewing comments of facebook after our election, I am not sure I find it all that odd.
There seems a rather strong movement afoot to turn us into a theocracy.
The home of the soul is the Open Road.
- DH Lawrence
- DH Lawrence
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Oscar Namechange
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When did guy fawkes become a hero?
Well Mon Grande Chardon,
Being born and raised In Brighton, we had the annual Fireworks festival every year at Lewes, just outside Brighton.
As kids, twas a wonderous affair of Industrial scale fireworks, roast chestnut and candy floss stalls. Hot dogs and baked potato's wrapped In paper...
Anyway, Tis tradition at Lewis every year to burn an effigy on the enormous bonfire to the cheers of the crowds..
This year, the effigy had to be scrapped after complaints from whining Scots. :yh_rotfl
Plans to burn super-size effigy of Alex Salmond during bonfire celebrations axed after complaints from angry Scots - Daily Record
Funny... never heard you Scots complaining when we had an effigy of Thatcher
Yes, you read that right... 30,000 people a year attend
Being born and raised In Brighton, we had the annual Fireworks festival every year at Lewes, just outside Brighton.
As kids, twas a wonderous affair of Industrial scale fireworks, roast chestnut and candy floss stalls. Hot dogs and baked potato's wrapped In paper...
Anyway, Tis tradition at Lewis every year to burn an effigy on the enormous bonfire to the cheers of the crowds..
This year, the effigy had to be scrapped after complaints from whining Scots. :yh_rotfl
Plans to burn super-size effigy of Alex Salmond during bonfire celebrations axed after complaints from angry Scots - Daily Record
Funny... never heard you Scots complaining when we had an effigy of Thatcher
Yes, you read that right... 30,000 people a year attend
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
When did guy fawkes become a hero?
I've always understood the whole thing of Guy Fawkes Night to be a celebration of Democracy, against the Facists that would force outright Dictatorship upon us.
The concept of the bonfires, however, has always been a bit confusing to me, though as, contrary to modern popular belief, he was not burned at the stake, but Hanged, Drawn & Quartered (which, if you're unfamiliar with the process is to be hanged, but taken down before you're dead, then to have your belly cut open & have all the innards pulled out, while still concious, then to have ropes tied to your arms & legs & slowly torn apart by 4 carthorses - far more grizzly than a common bonfire).
The concept of the bonfires, however, has always been a bit confusing to me, though as, contrary to modern popular belief, he was not burned at the stake, but Hanged, Drawn & Quartered (which, if you're unfamiliar with the process is to be hanged, but taken down before you're dead, then to have your belly cut open & have all the innards pulled out, while still concious, then to have ropes tied to your arms & legs & slowly torn apart by 4 carthorses - far more grizzly than a common bonfire).
When did guy fawkes become a hero?
posted by oscar namechange
This year, the effigy had to be scrapped after complaints from whining Scots.
They had one of david cameron a couple of years ago. Can you imagine the reaction if yes in an snp run council had burned an effigy of david cameron. Mild annoyance is probably the strongest reaction.
posted by fourpart
I've always understood the whole thing of Guy Fawkes Night to be a celebration of Democracy, against the Facists that would force outright Dictatorship upon us.
No he wanted to destroy parliament and the protestant king and bring back catholic monarchy and absolute rule by divine right. Forty years later a king that tried to do the same thing (rule by divine right that is) and was executed for his trouble. Not so long before that when queen elizabeth was on the throne there were numerous attempts to kill her as well as an actual invasion attempt
I find it depressing that a UK citizen donesn't know the history of events that shaped the way we live. Seems we have indeed forgotten.
Having said that I quite liked V I just can't see guy fawkes as a hero. Actually He wasn't hung drawn and quarted either he jumped off the platform when the noose was placed on him and broke his neck thus excaping the grisly part of his fate.
This year, the effigy had to be scrapped after complaints from whining Scots.
They had one of david cameron a couple of years ago. Can you imagine the reaction if yes in an snp run council had burned an effigy of david cameron. Mild annoyance is probably the strongest reaction.
posted by fourpart
I've always understood the whole thing of Guy Fawkes Night to be a celebration of Democracy, against the Facists that would force outright Dictatorship upon us.
No he wanted to destroy parliament and the protestant king and bring back catholic monarchy and absolute rule by divine right. Forty years later a king that tried to do the same thing (rule by divine right that is) and was executed for his trouble. Not so long before that when queen elizabeth was on the throne there were numerous attempts to kill her as well as an actual invasion attempt
I find it depressing that a UK citizen donesn't know the history of events that shaped the way we live. Seems we have indeed forgotten.
Having said that I quite liked V I just can't see guy fawkes as a hero. Actually He wasn't hung drawn and quarted either he jumped off the platform when the noose was placed on him and broke his neck thus excaping the grisly part of his fate.
When did guy fawkes become a hero?
By making such a holiday of his failure, the crown all but ensured his martyrdom. Had he been allowed to slip quietly into the past, his ghost would not have returned to ignite the anti-establishment sentiment that has bubbled up over the last few decades to rouse the rabble.
Here we have the names of thieves and scoundrels, like the James Bros, Dillinger, Bonnie and Clyde, being raised in toasts to the pyres of Anarchy.
Y'all at least have found someone who really thought large. His goal was no less than to bring down a nation.
Here we have the names of thieves and scoundrels, like the James Bros, Dillinger, Bonnie and Clyde, being raised in toasts to the pyres of Anarchy.
Y'all at least have found someone who really thought large. His goal was no less than to bring down a nation.
The home of the soul is the Open Road.
- DH Lawrence
- DH Lawrence
When did guy fawkes become a hero?
LarsMac;1467314 wrote: By making such a holiday of his failure, the crown all but ensured his martyrdom. Had he been allowed to slip quietly into the past, his ghost would not have returned to ignite the anti-establishment sentiment that has bubbled up over the last few decades to rouse the rabble.
Here we have the names of thieves and scoundrels, like the James Bros, Dillinger, Bonnie and Clyde, being raised in toasts to the pyres of Anarchy.
Y'all at least have found someone who really thought large. His goal was no less than to bring down a nation.
It wasn't just the crown that celebrated his failure had it been guy fawkes night would never have got off the ground.
Here we have the names of thieves and scoundrels, like the James Bros, Dillinger, Bonnie and Clyde, being raised in toasts to the pyres of Anarchy.
Y'all at least have found someone who really thought large. His goal was no less than to bring down a nation.
It wasn't just the crown that celebrated his failure had it been guy fawkes night would never have got off the ground.
When did guy fawkes become a hero?
gmc;1467305 wrote: No he wanted to destroy parliament and the protestant king and bring back catholic monarchy and absolute rule by divine right. Forty years later a king that tried to do the same thing (rule by divine right that is) and was executed for his trouble.
Isn't that what I said? I always understood that Parliament was meant to be a Democracy, whereas outright Monarchy rule, regardless of whether it be Protestant or Catholic, is a Facist Dictatorship.
I am a Royalist, but I know that that executive reign would be wrong & that Parliamentary Democracy is essential, and that the 2 can work excellently hand in hand.
Isn't that what I said? I always understood that Parliament was meant to be a Democracy, whereas outright Monarchy rule, regardless of whether it be Protestant or Catholic, is a Facist Dictatorship.
I am a Royalist, but I know that that executive reign would be wrong & that Parliamentary Democracy is essential, and that the 2 can work excellently hand in hand.
When did guy fawkes become a hero?
FourPart;1467323 wrote: Isn't that what I said? I always understood that Parliament was meant to be a Democracy, whereas outright Monarchy rule, regardless of whether it be Protestant or Catholic, is a Facist Dictatorship.
I am a Royalist, but I know that that executive reign would be wrong & that Parliamentary Democracy is essential, and that the 2 can work excellently hand in hand.
Actually no it's not. Neither italy or nazi germany were monarchies when they became fascist. Absolute rule by a monarch is absolute rule by one individual who takes his authority from god and rules by divine right, sometimes that individual woud be controlled by powerful warlords or landowners. Church and sate united to keep power
I always think this quote attributed to mussolini (he doesn't seem to have actually written it anywhere) sums up the present day situation
Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
The definition of fascism moves with the times Fascism is when the monarch or establishment are controlled by a narrow elite, nowadays that is big business or corporations in pursuit of their own interests. Typically it also includes a belief in the superiority of one ethnic group and religion and a contempt for democracy especially when it gets in the way of those interests. Just look at the fracking debate in this countrty, the givernment have passed laws meaning local objections can be ignored.
The big difference in the Uk is that parliament is supreme and can make a difference whether it does or not depends on whether people can be bothered voting.
It's the same argument that was going on in 1605 - who rules?
I am a Royalist, but I know that that executive reign would be wrong & that Parliamentary Democracy is essential, and that the 2 can work excellently hand in hand.
Actually no it's not. Neither italy or nazi germany were monarchies when they became fascist. Absolute rule by a monarch is absolute rule by one individual who takes his authority from god and rules by divine right, sometimes that individual woud be controlled by powerful warlords or landowners. Church and sate united to keep power
I always think this quote attributed to mussolini (he doesn't seem to have actually written it anywhere) sums up the present day situation
Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
The definition of fascism moves with the times Fascism is when the monarch or establishment are controlled by a narrow elite, nowadays that is big business or corporations in pursuit of their own interests. Typically it also includes a belief in the superiority of one ethnic group and religion and a contempt for democracy especially when it gets in the way of those interests. Just look at the fracking debate in this countrty, the givernment have passed laws meaning local objections can be ignored.
The big difference in the Uk is that parliament is supreme and can make a difference whether it does or not depends on whether people can be bothered voting.
It's the same argument that was going on in 1605 - who rules?
When did guy fawkes become a hero?
Ok, perhaps Tyrannical would have been a more appropriate word. Either way, the eventul outcome is the same. Be it be by 'claimed' Divine Rule, as supposed Mortal Representative of God, or simply a blatant politcal dictator, it makes no odds. A single person with power over everyone else is not acceptable, which is what an outright Monarchy would have been aiming for.
I don't think Hitler thought he was getting his instructions from God. I think he thought that God was getting his instructions from him.
I don't think Hitler thought he was getting his instructions from God. I think he thought that God was getting his instructions from him.
When did guy fawkes become a hero?
posted by four part
I don't think Hitler thought he was getting his instructions from God.
You think?
Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.
-Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)
The best characterization is provided by the product of this
religious education, the Jew himself. His life is only of this world,
and his spirit is inwardly as alien to true Christianity as his
nature two thousand years previous was to the great founder of the
new doctrine. Of course, the latter made no secret of his attitude
toward the Jewish people, and when necessary he even took the whip to
drive from the temple of the Lord this adversary of all humanity, who
then as always saw in religion nothing but an instrument for his
business existence. In return, Christ was nailed to the cross, while
our present-day party Christians debase themselves to begging for
Jewish votes at elections and later try to arrange political swindles
with atheistic Jewish parties– and this against their own nation.â€
[Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1, Chapter 11]
Should try having a read of mein kampf. The once upon a time best selling book in europe.
I don't think Hitler thought he was getting his instructions from God.
You think?
Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.
-Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)
The best characterization is provided by the product of this
religious education, the Jew himself. His life is only of this world,
and his spirit is inwardly as alien to true Christianity as his
nature two thousand years previous was to the great founder of the
new doctrine. Of course, the latter made no secret of his attitude
toward the Jewish people, and when necessary he even took the whip to
drive from the temple of the Lord this adversary of all humanity, who
then as always saw in religion nothing but an instrument for his
business existence. In return, Christ was nailed to the cross, while
our present-day party Christians debase themselves to begging for
Jewish votes at elections and later try to arrange political swindles
with atheistic Jewish parties– and this against their own nation.â€
[Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1, Chapter 11]
Should try having a read of mein kampf. The once upon a time best selling book in europe.