Thatcher had secret plan to use army at height of miners' strike | Politics | The Guardian
If we had a ten year moratorium rather than 30 it would be so much better - at least then politicians might be hesitant to do things knowing they will be found out.
Thatcher's secret plan to slash millions from Scots budget | Yes Scotland
There's little doubt the snp owe much of their success to thatcher. How some people can regard her as a great prime minister is beyind me - think about it while we subsidise the railways even while they are making vast profits or are blackmailed by foreign owned utility companies.
Thatcher's secret plan to use army
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Oscar Namechange
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Thatcher's secret plan to use army
gmc;1443851 wrote: Thatcher had secret plan to use army at height of miners' strike | Politics | The Guardian
If we had a ten year moratorium rather than 30 it would be so much better - at least then politicians might be hesitant to do things knowing they will be found out.
Thatcher's secret plan to slash millions from Scots budget | Yes Scotland
There's little doubt the snp owe much of their success to thatcher. How some people can regard her as a great prime minister is beyind me - think about it while we subsidise the railways even while they are making vast profits or are blackmailed by foreign owned utility companies.
So what Is It you want to argue about ?
Thatcher's plan to bring In the army against the coal miners?
How the SNP owes It's success to Thatcher ?
Or the blackmail of foreign owned utility companies?
Confused. com
If we had a ten year moratorium rather than 30 it would be so much better - at least then politicians might be hesitant to do things knowing they will be found out.
Thatcher's secret plan to slash millions from Scots budget | Yes Scotland
There's little doubt the snp owe much of their success to thatcher. How some people can regard her as a great prime minister is beyind me - think about it while we subsidise the railways even while they are making vast profits or are blackmailed by foreign owned utility companies.
So what Is It you want to argue about ?
Thatcher's plan to bring In the army against the coal miners?
How the SNP owes It's success to Thatcher ?
Or the blackmail of foreign owned utility companies?
Confused. com
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
Thatcher's secret plan to use army
oscar;1443853 wrote: So what Is It you want to argue about ?
Thatcher's plan to bring In the army against the coal miners?
How the SNP owes It's success to Thatcher ?
Or the blackmail of foreign owned utility companies?
Confused. com
Not something you will see reported in the daily mail is it- or rather I have seen them make any comment on it. The attempts to cut the scottish budget are getting a lot of play up here. The fact she wanted to make the cuts in secret says a lot about her character and contempt for the electorate.
If she had brought in troops what do you think the consequences would have been? If she had known that her plans would be made public in ten years rather than thirty do you think she might have thought twice about such policies?
I'm biased I despise the woman.
Thatcher's plan to bring In the army against the coal miners?
How the SNP owes It's success to Thatcher ?
Or the blackmail of foreign owned utility companies?
Confused. com
Not something you will see reported in the daily mail is it- or rather I have seen them make any comment on it. The attempts to cut the scottish budget are getting a lot of play up here. The fact she wanted to make the cuts in secret says a lot about her character and contempt for the electorate.
If she had brought in troops what do you think the consequences would have been? If she had known that her plans would be made public in ten years rather than thirty do you think she might have thought twice about such policies?
I'm biased I despise the woman.
Thatcher's secret plan to use army
That strike being over there, never really paid much, if any attention.
Reading the article you provided, I find it difficult to fault Thatcher at all.
Seems to me exploring different options to resolve a problem would be expected of any leader.
Confidentiality "secrecy" during negotiations follows common sense.
Long story short, did Maggie make that order?
In 1946 our President Harry S Truman was prepared to draft striking railroad workers. No secret there,
“Word Has Just Been Receivedâ€: Truman Speaks on the Railroad Strike
Unions that continued to press beyond the general labor settlements established in the auto and steel industries after World War II found themselves facing an additional and powerful adversary—the federal government. In the spring of 1946, both coal miners and railroad workers staged nationwide strikes. President Harry Truman decided that the unions had gone too far, and after the railroad workers rejected a settlement, he seized control of the railroads. Despite the government takeover, the workers continued with their strike plans. As a result, on May 24, 1946, Truman issued an ultimatum declaring that the government would operate the railroads and use the army as strikebreakers. When the deadline passed, Truman went before Congress to seek the power to deny seniority rights to strikers and to draft strikers into the armed forces. Just as Truman reached the climax of his speech, he received a note saying that the strike was “settled on the terms proposed by the President.†After the congressional cheers died down, Truman proceeded with his prepared text.
History Matters
I am not a gambler, but I do understand keeping ones cards under the chest, knowing when to play them or to hold them.
Reading the article you provided, I find it difficult to fault Thatcher at all.
Seems to me exploring different options to resolve a problem would be expected of any leader.
Confidentiality "secrecy" during negotiations follows common sense.
Long story short, did Maggie make that order?
In 1946 our President Harry S Truman was prepared to draft striking railroad workers. No secret there,
“Word Has Just Been Receivedâ€: Truman Speaks on the Railroad Strike
Unions that continued to press beyond the general labor settlements established in the auto and steel industries after World War II found themselves facing an additional and powerful adversary—the federal government. In the spring of 1946, both coal miners and railroad workers staged nationwide strikes. President Harry Truman decided that the unions had gone too far, and after the railroad workers rejected a settlement, he seized control of the railroads. Despite the government takeover, the workers continued with their strike plans. As a result, on May 24, 1946, Truman issued an ultimatum declaring that the government would operate the railroads and use the army as strikebreakers. When the deadline passed, Truman went before Congress to seek the power to deny seniority rights to strikers and to draft strikers into the armed forces. Just as Truman reached the climax of his speech, he received a note saying that the strike was “settled on the terms proposed by the President.†After the congressional cheers died down, Truman proceeded with his prepared text.
History Matters
I am not a gambler, but I do understand keeping ones cards under the chest, knowing when to play them or to hold them.
What happened to Kamala Harris' campaign?
She had the black vote all locked up.
She had the black vote all locked up.
Thatcher's secret plan to use army
The last time the riot act was read and armed troops were on the streets of the mainland UK was in 1919 when the establishment was terrified there was going to be a revolution as there was in russia. Sensibly ever then troops have been kept out of industrial disputes
Depends whether you think it correct that a government should use troops against the people it is supposed to be governing with their consent. We have an unarmed police force because at the inception of the metropolitan police one of the fundamental principles was that they should police with the support of the people - uphold the law rather than enforce it. It is a given that we have a right to protest and to strike in defence of our rights and this was a right wing government determined to break the power of a working class. The likelihood of workers just standing by and letting the troops go about their business was fairly remote. What next martial law? Even during the general strike troops were not used that Thatcher would contemplate it says a lot about her attitude.
We elect our government they answer to us we cannot accept they have the right to make such decisions and keep them secret without the fear of the electorate finding out.
Depends whether you think it correct that a government should use troops against the people it is supposed to be governing with their consent. We have an unarmed police force because at the inception of the metropolitan police one of the fundamental principles was that they should police with the support of the people - uphold the law rather than enforce it. It is a given that we have a right to protest and to strike in defence of our rights and this was a right wing government determined to break the power of a working class. The likelihood of workers just standing by and letting the troops go about their business was fairly remote. What next martial law? Even during the general strike troops were not used that Thatcher would contemplate it says a lot about her attitude.
We elect our government they answer to us we cannot accept they have the right to make such decisions and keep them secret without the fear of the electorate finding out.
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Oscar Namechange
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Thatcher's secret plan to use army
gmc.... You're distorting the facts. You are talking as though her possible use of the army during militant action by coal miners was In a military style civil war.
Having looked Into her plan a little more now, that clearly Is not the case.
To understand fully, you have to take your mind back to 1974 when coal miners were holding the country to ransom by ridiculous pay demands and continual strike action. Scargill was a thug who used hired thugs ( Flying Pickets) to fight with police and woah betide any miner who refused to strike ( scab )
The 3 day week was brought In because due to continual strike action by the miners saw the country running out of electricity. People suffered because of the strike actions. No business could operate for more than 3 days other than supermarkets and hospitals. Children lost valuable school time, millions of people lost wages and found It a struggle just to pay the rent. Small business's went under.
A 3 day week was brought In to conserve energy while the miners kept their stranglehold on the country and government.
The country was the laughing stock of the world. Our export dried up because no-one had faith In us to deliver on time, our GDP was non-existent and we had no trade.
Meanwhile the miners demanded more and more over and above the average semi-skilled and skilled wage.
What was Thatcher expected to do ? The country was on the point of running out of power !!!
Her plan to bring In the army was not to engage on the picket lines with the violent flying pickets but for troops to move coal to power stations.
Should she have done this? Absolutely.... Or would you prefer It to have continued the way It was ?
Having looked Into her plan a little more now, that clearly Is not the case.
To understand fully, you have to take your mind back to 1974 when coal miners were holding the country to ransom by ridiculous pay demands and continual strike action. Scargill was a thug who used hired thugs ( Flying Pickets) to fight with police and woah betide any miner who refused to strike ( scab )
The 3 day week was brought In because due to continual strike action by the miners saw the country running out of electricity. People suffered because of the strike actions. No business could operate for more than 3 days other than supermarkets and hospitals. Children lost valuable school time, millions of people lost wages and found It a struggle just to pay the rent. Small business's went under.
A 3 day week was brought In to conserve energy while the miners kept their stranglehold on the country and government.
The country was the laughing stock of the world. Our export dried up because no-one had faith In us to deliver on time, our GDP was non-existent and we had no trade.
Meanwhile the miners demanded more and more over and above the average semi-skilled and skilled wage.
What was Thatcher expected to do ? The country was on the point of running out of power !!!
Her plan to bring In the army was not to engage on the picket lines with the violent flying pickets but for troops to move coal to power stations.
Should she have done this? Absolutely.... Or would you prefer It to have continued the way It was ?
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
Thatcher's secret plan to use army
No I wouldn't have preferred it to continue the way it was and yes I am aware of the intimidation that went on, it's now gone too far the other way, thatcher's right wing economic policies have done much to wreck our economy the gulf between rich and poor is the widest it;s been in decades and many are facing misery as a result of her legacy and the actions of those she thought would make britain great again - i'e the financial sector. Sadly new labour bought that fairy story a well and imo it's a toss up who was worse for the country blair or thatcher with my money on Blair as outright winner. You could also make a case that the problems with the steel industry were as a result of government interference after ww2. It took us a long time to adjust to a changed world. What the consequences of using troops top move coal would have been is pointless speculation. It wasn't thatcher that ended up compromising.
The point I am making is that she was hell bent on destroying the miners no matter what the cost. Had scargill not been such a megalomaniac that pissed off so many the whole thing might have had a better outcome we are still paying the price for all of this. . The irony that we now import coal doesn't escape you I trust.
The point I am making is that she was hell bent on destroying the miners no matter what the cost. Had scargill not been such a megalomaniac that pissed off so many the whole thing might have had a better outcome we are still paying the price for all of this. . The irony that we now import coal doesn't escape you I trust.
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Oscar Namechange
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Thatcher's secret plan to use army
gmc;1443906 wrote:
The point I am making is that she was hell bent on destroying the miners no matter what the cost. Had scargill not been such a megalomaniac that pissed off so many the whole thing might have had a better outcome we are still paying the price for all of this. . The irony that we now import coal doesn't escape you I trust.
No she wasn't.
The rot started not with Thatcher but with Heath In 1970 and set out to reverse the fading capitalism at the expense of the working class.
It was Heath not Thatcher who took on the miners In 1972 and 1974 losing both times. It was the last defeat that led to the 3 day week.
By then the miners were holding the country to ransom and the 3 day week was to conserve energy. By then the miners were refusing to allow coal to get through to power stations. It was actually the first time a general dispute had forced an election and Heath lost In February of that year.
It was Heath not Thatcher who Introduced The Industrial Relations Act 1971 and It's purpose was to force Union leaders Into disciplining militant workers and pickets. At the end of Heath's reign, It was chaos with the miners demanding a 40% Increase In wages, over and above Inflation and the national average, ASLEF, the union of train drivers and were working to rule with a ban on over-time as well as an over-time ban from engineering workers,
Prior to this the Labour Callaghan government had repeatedly tried concessions with the coal miners and failed,
Following Heath's defeat, the first thing Harold Wilson had to do was settle the Industrial action with the TUC and the miners. By now, people were actually freezing to death In their homes In winter and he also failed.... what you had was three consecutive governments blakmailed and held to ransom by the coal miners.
In 1984, an all out strike by the coal miners lasted a year. It crippled Industry, crippled export and small business's were folding... what was she meant to do ?
Three previous governments had failed to settle with the Miners. She came to power after these In 1979 when the country was on the brink of economic meltdown.
Yes, It got nasty but most violence was actually between pickets and scabs. Those scabs who were determined to work despite the Intimidation of the Flying Pickets In order to feed their kids.
Thatcher did what she had to do. The miners had brought down the Heath government. Yes, she set out to destroy the unions but this country would be still held to ransom had It not have been for her balls.
The point I am making is that she was hell bent on destroying the miners no matter what the cost. Had scargill not been such a megalomaniac that pissed off so many the whole thing might have had a better outcome we are still paying the price for all of this. . The irony that we now import coal doesn't escape you I trust.
No she wasn't.
The rot started not with Thatcher but with Heath In 1970 and set out to reverse the fading capitalism at the expense of the working class.
It was Heath not Thatcher who took on the miners In 1972 and 1974 losing both times. It was the last defeat that led to the 3 day week.
By then the miners were holding the country to ransom and the 3 day week was to conserve energy. By then the miners were refusing to allow coal to get through to power stations. It was actually the first time a general dispute had forced an election and Heath lost In February of that year.
It was Heath not Thatcher who Introduced The Industrial Relations Act 1971 and It's purpose was to force Union leaders Into disciplining militant workers and pickets. At the end of Heath's reign, It was chaos with the miners demanding a 40% Increase In wages, over and above Inflation and the national average, ASLEF, the union of train drivers and were working to rule with a ban on over-time as well as an over-time ban from engineering workers,
Prior to this the Labour Callaghan government had repeatedly tried concessions with the coal miners and failed,
Following Heath's defeat, the first thing Harold Wilson had to do was settle the Industrial action with the TUC and the miners. By now, people were actually freezing to death In their homes In winter and he also failed.... what you had was three consecutive governments blakmailed and held to ransom by the coal miners.
In 1984, an all out strike by the coal miners lasted a year. It crippled Industry, crippled export and small business's were folding... what was she meant to do ?
Three previous governments had failed to settle with the Miners. She came to power after these In 1979 when the country was on the brink of economic meltdown.
Yes, It got nasty but most violence was actually between pickets and scabs. Those scabs who were determined to work despite the Intimidation of the Flying Pickets In order to feed their kids.
Thatcher did what she had to do. The miners had brought down the Heath government. Yes, she set out to destroy the unions but this country would be still held to ransom had It not have been for her balls.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
Thatcher's secret plan to use army
Some of the things thatcher did were necessary some of the thimngs she did were unnecessarily destructive we can argue the pros and cons endlessly. Ay least thatcher had enough character you could dislike and she did go a bit mad.
Interesting you know about heath you've gone up slightly in my estimation. Held to ransom by tbe unions?
Tony Benn - 10 min History Lesson for Neoliberals - YouTube
Interesting you know about heath you've gone up slightly in my estimation. Held to ransom by tbe unions?
Tony Benn - 10 min History Lesson for Neoliberals - YouTube
Thatcher's secret plan to use army
Some of the things thatcher did were necessary some of the thimngs she did were unnecessarily destructive we can argue the pros and cons endlessly. Ay least thatcher had enough character you could dislike and she did go a bit mad.
Interesting you know about heath you've gone up slightly in my estimation. Held to ransom by tbe unions?
Tony Benn - 10 min History Lesson for Neoliberals - YouTube
Don't agree entirely with him but he does make some good points. Labour are bigger hypocrites tha the tories - at least they don't opretend to care.
Interesting you know about heath you've gone up slightly in my estimation. Held to ransom by tbe unions?
Tony Benn - 10 min History Lesson for Neoliberals - YouTube
Don't agree entirely with him but he does make some good points. Labour are bigger hypocrites tha the tories - at least they don't opretend to care.
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Oscar Namechange
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Thatcher's secret plan to use army
gmc;1443941 wrote: Some of the things thatcher did were necessary some of the thimngs she did were unnecessarily destructive we can argue the pros and cons endlessly. Ay least thatcher had enough character you could dislike and she did go a bit mad.
Interesting you know about heath you've gone up slightly in my estimation. Held to ransom by tbe unions?
Tony Benn - 10 min History Lesson for Neoliberals - YouTube
Don't agree entirely with him but he does make some good points. Labour are bigger hypocrites tha the tories - at least they don't opretend to care.
When she came to power, the coal miners and train drivers were not her only problem.
In 1979 Lorry drivers and Tanker drivers called an all out strike which caused massive disruption to food supplies and factories unable to use their work force due to lack of parts. Following that, lower sector workforces went on strike Including sewerage workers, grave diggers, civil servents, even ambulance crews. The country was crippled.
In actual fact, the lorry drivers strike was brought about by the TGWU In Scotland.
The tanker drivers joined forces with The Scottish lorry drivers and In the end over 70,000 drivers were on strike.
Yet as I said prior, It was not Thatcher who started the rot of the working classes.
It was Wilson and Callaghan who had driven down the standard of living of the working classes by years of wage restraints. They also cut 100's of thousands of job cuts In major Industries and public sector.
What Thatcher Inherited was nothing short of chaos.
Had Thatcher been a man, she'd have been applauded as the greatest statesman of our generation.... she did what she had to do,
Interesting you know about heath you've gone up slightly in my estimation. Held to ransom by tbe unions?
Tony Benn - 10 min History Lesson for Neoliberals - YouTube
Don't agree entirely with him but he does make some good points. Labour are bigger hypocrites tha the tories - at least they don't opretend to care.
When she came to power, the coal miners and train drivers were not her only problem.
In 1979 Lorry drivers and Tanker drivers called an all out strike which caused massive disruption to food supplies and factories unable to use their work force due to lack of parts. Following that, lower sector workforces went on strike Including sewerage workers, grave diggers, civil servents, even ambulance crews. The country was crippled.
In actual fact, the lorry drivers strike was brought about by the TGWU In Scotland.
The tanker drivers joined forces with The Scottish lorry drivers and In the end over 70,000 drivers were on strike.
Yet as I said prior, It was not Thatcher who started the rot of the working classes.
It was Wilson and Callaghan who had driven down the standard of living of the working classes by years of wage restraints. They also cut 100's of thousands of job cuts In major Industries and public sector.
What Thatcher Inherited was nothing short of chaos.
Had Thatcher been a man, she'd have been applauded as the greatest statesman of our generation.... she did what she had to do,
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
Thatcher's secret plan to use army
What did you think of what tony benn had to say? I agree with him that's it's a never ending struggle between left and right. Personally I am always going to be on the left. You are an avowed fascist although you do seem to be informing yourself a bit better nowadays.
Look at the situation today - we have a financial crisis caused by the bankers and yet we not only bailed them out we are now being told that there are going to have to be major cuts to welfare they are out to privatise the NHS and yet those responsible are not in jail, we have large multinationals making vast profits in the UK but don't pay tax on them (under both labour and tory) and yet we have a govt wanting to pull out the eu because of the reduction in our sovereignty bleating that they can't do anything without eu agreement. Parliament is sovereign they could do something if they wanted to they just don't. I would put it to you they are too much beholden to the corporations that have all the power - except corporations only have power if we allow it.
Thatcher - there is no such thing as community and britain can be successful as a service economy.
You can't have an economy built on call centres and banking.
Look at the situation today - we have a financial crisis caused by the bankers and yet we not only bailed them out we are now being told that there are going to have to be major cuts to welfare they are out to privatise the NHS and yet those responsible are not in jail, we have large multinationals making vast profits in the UK but don't pay tax on them (under both labour and tory) and yet we have a govt wanting to pull out the eu because of the reduction in our sovereignty bleating that they can't do anything without eu agreement. Parliament is sovereign they could do something if they wanted to they just don't. I would put it to you they are too much beholden to the corporations that have all the power - except corporations only have power if we allow it.
Thatcher - there is no such thing as community and britain can be successful as a service economy.
You can't have an economy built on call centres and banking.