Double lung and heart transplant patient died nine days after her benefits were stopped when she was declared 'fit to work' | Mail Online
This from a paper that constantly runs articles about people are living it large on benefits? Ever since this anti-scrounger campaign started fuelled by papers like the daily mail they started their campaign the number of incidents of attacks on disabled people has risen, not that I'm saying all the attackers are daily mail readers, I'm sure some of them read the sun as well.
Hate crimes against disabled people soar to a record level - Crime - UK - The Independent
There are historical parallels," warns Katharine Quarmby, the author of Scapegoat: Why We Are Failing Disabled People, who has grown alarmed by the levels of "benefit scrounger" abuse aimed at disabled people. "If you have a group that is blamed for economic downturn, terrible things can happen to them."
Death of a welfare scrounger
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Oscar Namechange
- Posts: 31842
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:26 am
Death of a welfare scrounger
First of all, the woman was a heart and lung transplant patient. As my own husband Is, as we speak, considering the same when his time comes, I do know a little bit about the pitfalls of such a transplant and rejection as spelled out to us by his consultants.
The Mail article Is sensationalist reporting again. The ensuing health problems following an heart and lung transplant are enormous and It has major risks and complications.
20 % of patients don't live beyond a year. After just 3 years between 55 % and 70 % are still alive. Most die after just 5 years.
The chances are this lady would have died anyway just by the stats. To state that It was her being deemed fit for work Is libelous although money worries may have played a very very small part In hindering recovery.
That Is not to say the numpty who deemed her fit for work needs sacking.
The attacks on the disabled I do not believe are In the main down to those blindly following the coalitions stance that those claiming disability are scroungers. We have had attacks on the disabled for decades. It just suits the tabloids opposed to welfare reform to make a story out of It by linking the two... and numbnutts like you fall for It.
The Mail article Is sensationalist reporting again. The ensuing health problems following an heart and lung transplant are enormous and It has major risks and complications.
20 % of patients don't live beyond a year. After just 3 years between 55 % and 70 % are still alive. Most die after just 5 years.
The chances are this lady would have died anyway just by the stats. To state that It was her being deemed fit for work Is libelous although money worries may have played a very very small part In hindering recovery.
That Is not to say the numpty who deemed her fit for work needs sacking.
The attacks on the disabled I do not believe are In the main down to those blindly following the coalitions stance that those claiming disability are scroungers. We have had attacks on the disabled for decades. It just suits the tabloids opposed to welfare reform to make a story out of It by linking the two... and numbnutts like you fall for It.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
Death of a welfare scrounger
oscar;1428290 wrote: First of all, the woman was a heart and lung transplant patient. As my own husband Is, as we speak, considering the same when his time comes, I do know a little bit about the pitfalls of such a transplant and rejection as spelled out to us by his consultants.
The Mail article Is sensationalist reporting again. The ensuing health problems following an heart and lung transplant are enormous and It has major risks and complications.
20 % of patients don't live beyond a year. After just 3 years between 55 % and 70 % are still alive. Most die after just 5 years.
The chances are this lady would have died anyway just by the stats. To state that It was her being deemed fit for work Is libelous although money worries may have played a very very small part In hindering recovery.
That Is not to say the numpty who deemed her fit for work needs sacking.
The attacks on the disabled I do not believe are In the main down to those blindly following the coalitions stance that those claiming disability are scroungers. We have had attacks on the disabled for decades. It just suits the tabloids opposed to welfare reform to make a story out of It by linking the two... and numbnutts like you fall for It.
You're incredible - you completely miss the point of the story don't you. It's not her death that is the issue and the withdrawal of benefits is not being blamed it's the fact she could be deemed as fit for work by a private organisation that completely ignores medical opinion. You think that is just an innocent mistake and she would have died anyway so it doesn't matter.
In November last year it was revealed a heart patient was told he was fit for work - just a day after a double heart bypass operation.
Danny Shurmer, 60, received the letter from a healthcare firm working on behalf of the Government as he recovered in the intensive care unit of Liverpool Heart and Chest Hospital.
Mr Shurmer's employment and support allowance - a benefit which has replaced incapacity benefit - was later stopped. It was only restarted after he went to a tribunal.
You really couldn't make this stuff up could you. No doubt you believe he couldn't be that ill or he wouldn't be able to stand the operation. People do go back to work after an operation like that just not the day after. Unless he already had a job to go back most employers would not take him on because of his medical history. To all intents and purposes in the real world he is actually unemployable yet you think someone like him is a scrounger and should have his benefits stopped. even if he has paid all his taxes for the last forty years.
It's also clear you didn't read the other article either. The constant harping on about benefit scroungers has an effect ignore the evidence all you want.
The Mail article Is sensationalist reporting again. The ensuing health problems following an heart and lung transplant are enormous and It has major risks and complications.
20 % of patients don't live beyond a year. After just 3 years between 55 % and 70 % are still alive. Most die after just 5 years.
The chances are this lady would have died anyway just by the stats. To state that It was her being deemed fit for work Is libelous although money worries may have played a very very small part In hindering recovery.
That Is not to say the numpty who deemed her fit for work needs sacking.
The attacks on the disabled I do not believe are In the main down to those blindly following the coalitions stance that those claiming disability are scroungers. We have had attacks on the disabled for decades. It just suits the tabloids opposed to welfare reform to make a story out of It by linking the two... and numbnutts like you fall for It.
You're incredible - you completely miss the point of the story don't you. It's not her death that is the issue and the withdrawal of benefits is not being blamed it's the fact she could be deemed as fit for work by a private organisation that completely ignores medical opinion. You think that is just an innocent mistake and she would have died anyway so it doesn't matter.
In November last year it was revealed a heart patient was told he was fit for work - just a day after a double heart bypass operation.
Danny Shurmer, 60, received the letter from a healthcare firm working on behalf of the Government as he recovered in the intensive care unit of Liverpool Heart and Chest Hospital.
Mr Shurmer's employment and support allowance - a benefit which has replaced incapacity benefit - was later stopped. It was only restarted after he went to a tribunal.
You really couldn't make this stuff up could you. No doubt you believe he couldn't be that ill or he wouldn't be able to stand the operation. People do go back to work after an operation like that just not the day after. Unless he already had a job to go back most employers would not take him on because of his medical history. To all intents and purposes in the real world he is actually unemployable yet you think someone like him is a scrounger and should have his benefits stopped. even if he has paid all his taxes for the last forty years.
It's also clear you didn't read the other article either. The constant harping on about benefit scroungers has an effect ignore the evidence all you want.
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Oscar Namechange
- Posts: 31842
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:26 am
Death of a welfare scrounger
There Is much wrong with the department that assess's the disabled. It needs an overhaul.
Regardless, the story that the coalitions stance on disability claimants and Isolated attacks on disabled persons which has been happening for decades Is nothing short of scremongering to whip up further opposition to welfare reforms.
In fact, under new hate laws Introduced, disabled people are being bullied and attacked far less than a decade ago.
It's not the coalitions stance but morons like this
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 16097.html
Regardless, the story that the coalitions stance on disability claimants and Isolated attacks on disabled persons which has been happening for decades Is nothing short of scremongering to whip up further opposition to welfare reforms.
In fact, under new hate laws Introduced, disabled people are being bullied and attacked far less than a decade ago.
It's not the coalitions stance but morons like this
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 16097.html
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
Death of a welfare scrounger
posted by oscar
There Is much wrong with the department that assess's the disabled. It needs an overhaul.
Nothing like a bit of understatement to round off an evening.
Regardless, the story that the coalitions stance on disability claimants and Isolated attacks on disabled persons which has been happening for decades Is nothing short of scremongering to whip up further opposition to welfare reforms.
If it was untrue it would be scaremongering. Read the article and it's sources.
That figure, based on Freedom of Information answers supplied by 43 of 44 forces, represents a 14 per cent rise on 2010. Disability hate crime has doubled since the start of the financial crisis in 2008. Despite the rise, the number of people convicted for the crime actually fell last year. Only 523 people were found guilty of a disability hate crime in 2011, The Independent has discovered, down 5 per cent from 2010. It suggests that barely one in four reported crimes leads to a conviction – a ratio that got worse last year.
The scaremongering is the myth that benefit scroungers are the cause of all our problems
I'll try a different tack
Joan Burnie: Poor suffer as we swallow Tory lies about scroungers - Joan Burnie - Daily Record
HOW, some of you ask me with the steam coming out your emails, is this Government of millionaires getting away with their attack on the poorest in society?
Well, chums, apart from the fact that a government can more or less do whatever it likes, the dirty little secret about the Con-Dems’ cuts – welfare benefit cap, bedroom tax and all those other wee nasties that will kick in soon – is that it’s what the majority of the electorate want.
You don’t believe me? You’re horrified by the stories of real deprivation and genuine suffering this paper has, day after day, revealed?
You might even have marched against these changes that will further disadvantage those who are already disadvantaged, and then some.
You think that what is happening, particularly to the disabled, is disgusting? I’ve got news for you. You don’t – at least the majority of you don’t.
A brief, depressing look at the opinion polls shows the reality.
The milk of most people’s human kindness seems to have seriously curdled.
According to Ipsos Mori, one of the most respected polling organisations going, a massive 84 per cent think there SHOULD be far stricter work-capability tests.
Another survey found that more than half of those in the 18 to 34 age range think everyone, yup everyone, on benefits is a scrounger.
But then you don’t need the polls – just any phone-in where the bile always spills out.
And I’ll tell you why.
Sizeable numbers have been brainwashed and bludgeoned into believing by the Tories and their allies in the right-wing media, that we are awash with families who haven’t worked for generations, who live high on the hog, with villas in Spain and a Mercedes in their garage and who spend all their money – sorry OUR money – on booze, bingo and fags.
We’re told these people breed like rabbits and if they want a pay rise, they get up the duff and the State’s their sugar daddy.
You're one of them oscar you seem to believe everything you are told because it feeds in to your prejudices. We all have our prejudices, myself included - except in my case they are well thought out reasons:sneaky:
You read that article and instead of seeing someone had been deemed fit to work when she obviously was not you read about a scrounger who 's husband was blaming the welfare cuts for her death. What dies that say about you?
The Department for Work and Pension’s official stats show that in the past five years slightly more than £5billion has been fiddled and diddled by claimants.
That’s not right.
But compare it with the £100billion-plus, which is diverted every single year into tax avoidance schemes.
Compare it, too, to the money that has been shovelled into the bankers’ back pockets and bonuses, even though they are the ones most responsible for the financial meltdown.
But it’s the poor who have, drip by drip, been demonised and blamed.
That is why George Osborne and Iain Duncan Smith can be fairly confident that, far from being a vote loser, these policies could secure them the next election.
I think in part it is because people feel powerless to do anything about the fact things are tough instead they join in kicking those who are already struggling because it makes them feel better.
There Is much wrong with the department that assess's the disabled. It needs an overhaul.
Nothing like a bit of understatement to round off an evening.
Regardless, the story that the coalitions stance on disability claimants and Isolated attacks on disabled persons which has been happening for decades Is nothing short of scremongering to whip up further opposition to welfare reforms.
If it was untrue it would be scaremongering. Read the article and it's sources.
That figure, based on Freedom of Information answers supplied by 43 of 44 forces, represents a 14 per cent rise on 2010. Disability hate crime has doubled since the start of the financial crisis in 2008. Despite the rise, the number of people convicted for the crime actually fell last year. Only 523 people were found guilty of a disability hate crime in 2011, The Independent has discovered, down 5 per cent from 2010. It suggests that barely one in four reported crimes leads to a conviction – a ratio that got worse last year.
The scaremongering is the myth that benefit scroungers are the cause of all our problems
I'll try a different tack
Joan Burnie: Poor suffer as we swallow Tory lies about scroungers - Joan Burnie - Daily Record
HOW, some of you ask me with the steam coming out your emails, is this Government of millionaires getting away with their attack on the poorest in society?
Well, chums, apart from the fact that a government can more or less do whatever it likes, the dirty little secret about the Con-Dems’ cuts – welfare benefit cap, bedroom tax and all those other wee nasties that will kick in soon – is that it’s what the majority of the electorate want.
You don’t believe me? You’re horrified by the stories of real deprivation and genuine suffering this paper has, day after day, revealed?
You might even have marched against these changes that will further disadvantage those who are already disadvantaged, and then some.
You think that what is happening, particularly to the disabled, is disgusting? I’ve got news for you. You don’t – at least the majority of you don’t.
A brief, depressing look at the opinion polls shows the reality.
The milk of most people’s human kindness seems to have seriously curdled.
According to Ipsos Mori, one of the most respected polling organisations going, a massive 84 per cent think there SHOULD be far stricter work-capability tests.
Another survey found that more than half of those in the 18 to 34 age range think everyone, yup everyone, on benefits is a scrounger.
But then you don’t need the polls – just any phone-in where the bile always spills out.
And I’ll tell you why.
Sizeable numbers have been brainwashed and bludgeoned into believing by the Tories and their allies in the right-wing media, that we are awash with families who haven’t worked for generations, who live high on the hog, with villas in Spain and a Mercedes in their garage and who spend all their money – sorry OUR money – on booze, bingo and fags.
We’re told these people breed like rabbits and if they want a pay rise, they get up the duff and the State’s their sugar daddy.
You're one of them oscar you seem to believe everything you are told because it feeds in to your prejudices. We all have our prejudices, myself included - except in my case they are well thought out reasons:sneaky:
You read that article and instead of seeing someone had been deemed fit to work when she obviously was not you read about a scrounger who 's husband was blaming the welfare cuts for her death. What dies that say about you?
The Department for Work and Pension’s official stats show that in the past five years slightly more than £5billion has been fiddled and diddled by claimants.
That’s not right.
But compare it with the £100billion-plus, which is diverted every single year into tax avoidance schemes.
Compare it, too, to the money that has been shovelled into the bankers’ back pockets and bonuses, even though they are the ones most responsible for the financial meltdown.
But it’s the poor who have, drip by drip, been demonised and blamed.
That is why George Osborne and Iain Duncan Smith can be fairly confident that, far from being a vote loser, these policies could secure them the next election.
I think in part it is because people feel powerless to do anything about the fact things are tough instead they join in kicking those who are already struggling because it makes them feel better.
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Betty Boop
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- Location: The end of the World
Death of a welfare scrounger
Ditto what gmc just said.
I came in this thread earlier then left totally shocked that anyone could 'think' she would have died anyway, let alone 'write' it!! What a horrific attitude to have.
Guess that's just a reflection of how society has become nowadays, brainwashed into applying stereotypes to any person on any form of benefit.
I came in this thread earlier then left totally shocked that anyone could 'think' she would have died anyway, let alone 'write' it!! What a horrific attitude to have.
Guess that's just a reflection of how society has become nowadays, brainwashed into applying stereotypes to any person on any form of benefit.
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Oscar Namechange
- Posts: 31842
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:26 am
Death of a welfare scrounger
Betty Boop;1428325 wrote: Ditto what gmc just said.
I came in this thread earlier then left totally shocked that anyone could 'think' she would have died anyway, let alone 'write' it!! What a horrific attitude to have.
Guess that's just a reflection of how society has become nowadays, brainwashed into applying stereotypes to any person on any form of benefit. Then I suggest you research life expectancy following a heart and lung transplant. It's a hard fact of life unlike the whipping up a frenzy by trying to link a womans organ rejection with a letter sent to her telling her she was fit for work when a letter from her consultant would easily have made them see they had judged wrongly.
Lung Transplant Life Expectancy Statistics & Survival Rate - Nazih Zuhdi Transplant Institute (Oklahoma City) - INTEGRIS OK
It Is merely co-incidence that the lady died at the same time she was assessed for work. Yes, the department got It wrong but you don't die of organ rejection because you have had a letter of which you can appeal. It's an unfortunate co-incidence that a tabloid has used to whip up anti welfare reform and people like you fall for It.
Read the article properly. The husband said she was already dying and In hospital when her benefits were stopped.
I came in this thread earlier then left totally shocked that anyone could 'think' she would have died anyway, let alone 'write' it!! What a horrific attitude to have.
Guess that's just a reflection of how society has become nowadays, brainwashed into applying stereotypes to any person on any form of benefit. Then I suggest you research life expectancy following a heart and lung transplant. It's a hard fact of life unlike the whipping up a frenzy by trying to link a womans organ rejection with a letter sent to her telling her she was fit for work when a letter from her consultant would easily have made them see they had judged wrongly.
Lung Transplant Life Expectancy Statistics & Survival Rate - Nazih Zuhdi Transplant Institute (Oklahoma City) - INTEGRIS OK
It Is merely co-incidence that the lady died at the same time she was assessed for work. Yes, the department got It wrong but you don't die of organ rejection because you have had a letter of which you can appeal. It's an unfortunate co-incidence that a tabloid has used to whip up anti welfare reform and people like you fall for It.
Read the article properly. The husband said she was already dying and In hospital when her benefits were stopped.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
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Betty Boop
- Posts: 16935
- Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 1:17 pm
- Location: The end of the World
Death of a welfare scrounger
Sigh... it's not me that needs to research the condition but the idiots who claimed she was fit for work.
Shrugging your shoulders and saying she would have died anyway is no defence. You'd be looking to sue someone if it happened to your family. Having money cut at that time of your life is not exactly going to help is it, claiming it won't have hindered a thing at all is a pile of bullshit.
The lady highlighted here is just one of many who ATOS has treated unfairly. Along with other companies hired by our government to make peoples lives a misery.
Capita is another example, bullies hired by the government to do work originally carried out by local councils.
Shrugging your shoulders and saying she would have died anyway is no defence. You'd be looking to sue someone if it happened to your family. Having money cut at that time of your life is not exactly going to help is it, claiming it won't have hindered a thing at all is a pile of bullshit.
The lady highlighted here is just one of many who ATOS has treated unfairly. Along with other companies hired by our government to make peoples lives a misery.
Capita is another example, bullies hired by the government to do work originally carried out by local councils.
Death of a welfare scrounger
Betty Boop;1428330 wrote: Sigh... it's not me that needs to research the condition but the idiots who claimed she was fit for work.
Shrugging your shoulders and saying she would have died anyway is no defence. You'd be looking to sue someone if it happened to your family. Having money cut at that time of your life is not exactly going to help is it, claiming it won't have hindered a thing at all is a pile of bullshit.
The lady highlighted here is just one of many who ATOS has treated unfairly. Along with other companies hired by our government to make peoples lives a misery.
Capita is another example, bullies hired by the government to do work originally carried out by local councils.
I googled Capita but am still none the wiser...what is its role?
Shrugging your shoulders and saying she would have died anyway is no defence. You'd be looking to sue someone if it happened to your family. Having money cut at that time of your life is not exactly going to help is it, claiming it won't have hindered a thing at all is a pile of bullshit.
The lady highlighted here is just one of many who ATOS has treated unfairly. Along with other companies hired by our government to make peoples lives a misery.
Capita is another example, bullies hired by the government to do work originally carried out by local councils.
I googled Capita but am still none the wiser...what is its role?
Live the questions now. Perhaps you will then gradually, without noticing it, live along some distant day into the answers...Rainer Maria Rilke
Death of a welfare scrounger
posted by oscar
It Is merely co-incidence that the lady died at the same time she was assessed for work. Yes, the department got It wrong but you don't die of organ rejection because you have had a letter of which you can appeal. It's an unfortunate co-incidence that a tabloid has used to whip up anti welfare reform and people like you fall for It.
Read the article properly. The husband said she was already dying and In hospital when her benefits were stopped.
You really don't get the point do you. :-5:-5 Can you not understand that there may be something wrong with an agency that assesses someone fit for work while they are actually in hospital, in this case they were actually dying. Or that there may be something wrong with the assumption that everybody on benefits is on the fiddle. She was dying anyway rather misses the point.
This is not an isolated incident and I would point out the tabloid concerned is your favourite one to cite when they carry articles about benefit scroungers.
and also ones like this
ANDREW PIERCE: Shameless, bungling - the tax boss who's sullied the civil service | Mail Online
Never mind pillorying benefit scroungers bastards like this have done far more harm than any amount of welfare fiddler could possibly do.
posted by theia
I googled Capita but am still none the wiser...what is its role?
Capilta is one of the private c0mpanies used to outsource some of what used to be council services.
It Is merely co-incidence that the lady died at the same time she was assessed for work. Yes, the department got It wrong but you don't die of organ rejection because you have had a letter of which you can appeal. It's an unfortunate co-incidence that a tabloid has used to whip up anti welfare reform and people like you fall for It.
Read the article properly. The husband said she was already dying and In hospital when her benefits were stopped.
You really don't get the point do you. :-5:-5 Can you not understand that there may be something wrong with an agency that assesses someone fit for work while they are actually in hospital, in this case they were actually dying. Or that there may be something wrong with the assumption that everybody on benefits is on the fiddle. She was dying anyway rather misses the point.
This is not an isolated incident and I would point out the tabloid concerned is your favourite one to cite when they carry articles about benefit scroungers.
and also ones like this
ANDREW PIERCE: Shameless, bungling - the tax boss who's sullied the civil service | Mail Online
Never mind pillorying benefit scroungers bastards like this have done far more harm than any amount of welfare fiddler could possibly do.
posted by theia
I googled Capita but am still none the wiser...what is its role?
Capilta is one of the private c0mpanies used to outsource some of what used to be council services.
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Oscar Namechange
- Posts: 31842
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:26 am
Death of a welfare scrounger
gmc;1428339 wrote: posted by oscar
You really don't get the point do you. :-5:-5 Can you not understand that there may be something wrong with an agency that assesses someone fit for work while they are actually in hospital, in this case they were actually dying. Or that there may be something wrong with the assumption that everybody on benefits is on the fiddle. She was dying anyway rather misses the point.
This is not an isolated incident and I would point out the tabloid concerned is your favourite one to cite when they carry articles about benefit scroungers.
and also ones like this
ANDREW PIERCE: Shameless, bungling - the tax boss who's sullied the civil service | Mail Online
Never mind pillorying benefit scroungers bastards like this have done far more harm than any amount of welfare fiddler could possibly do.
posted by theia
Capilta is one of the private c0mpanies used to outsource some of what used to be council services.
Rather than me not getting the point which I fully understand but refrain from the emotional shrieking going on here and see the logic and co-incidence of the situation.
You would rather twist my words so that It appears I have said ' Oh well, so what, she would have died anyway' and that Is not what I said Is It ?
I clearly stated In my first post here that not many double heart and lung patients live beyond five years due to organ rejection and complications. That Is fact.
It Is also fact that the husband states In the article that she was already In hospital dying when her benefits were stopped. It's simple logic that If she was already In hospital dying, the assessment that deemed her fit for work, could not be the cause of her death.
What you and BB are trying to do, which Is the purpose of the article, Is to link the two for emotional blackmail re: welfare reform.
Yes, the department needs an overhaul pretty damn quick to avoid further stress to disabled patients but trying to link some numpty's error to a woman already In hospital dying Is sensationalist reporting and typical of the blame culture we now live In.
My husband Is older than me and past 65 and working age but he Is registered disabled. If he for example had a letter saying his benefit was being stopped then you take action Immediately. And believe me, what ever you think, the department of SS does not just stop your money. There Is always a letter that precedes It telling you what Is about to happen and why.
The first thing you would do is phone them. Then, on the letter, there Is the chance to appeal because what ever you believe, this Is not Nazi Germany and they simply are not allowed to just stop any benefit without Informing you first and giving you chance to appeal.
The next procedure Is a letter from your hospital consultant to the department stating you are unfit for work. In many cases that alone Is accepted but In some cases, the department can ask you to be given a medical by their Independent doctor and you have the chance to show them all your medical details to prove you are unable to work.
That Is what I would do If my husband was under 65 and he received such a letter.
Under Section 102 and Schedule 11 of The Welfare Reform Act, patients who are deemed fit for work can continue to claim Employment Support Allowance by Immediately lodging an appeal.
The latest changes to the benefit system will see anyone receiving Incapacity benefit, being switched to ESA but If you are found fit for work under their assessment, you can appeal and more Importantly switch to Job Seekers Allowance. Now that's not to say, that Is wrong In this lady's case but It's designed to weed out those who claim disability allowance when they are fit for work. However, even under this reform, no-one Is left without any Income coming Into the house.
What the article has not stated for sensationalist reasons, Is that had she have not been In hospital dying, she could have simply switched from ESA to JSA and not been left without any form of benefit while she appealed. She didn't appeal but its clear she was unfortunately already dying In hospital. If her benefits were stopped while she was In hospital, It's because her husband did not switch her from ESA to JSA or lodge an appeal.
You really don't get the point do you. :-5:-5 Can you not understand that there may be something wrong with an agency that assesses someone fit for work while they are actually in hospital, in this case they were actually dying. Or that there may be something wrong with the assumption that everybody on benefits is on the fiddle. She was dying anyway rather misses the point.
This is not an isolated incident and I would point out the tabloid concerned is your favourite one to cite when they carry articles about benefit scroungers.
and also ones like this
ANDREW PIERCE: Shameless, bungling - the tax boss who's sullied the civil service | Mail Online
Never mind pillorying benefit scroungers bastards like this have done far more harm than any amount of welfare fiddler could possibly do.
posted by theia
Capilta is one of the private c0mpanies used to outsource some of what used to be council services.
Rather than me not getting the point which I fully understand but refrain from the emotional shrieking going on here and see the logic and co-incidence of the situation.
You would rather twist my words so that It appears I have said ' Oh well, so what, she would have died anyway' and that Is not what I said Is It ?
I clearly stated In my first post here that not many double heart and lung patients live beyond five years due to organ rejection and complications. That Is fact.
It Is also fact that the husband states In the article that she was already In hospital dying when her benefits were stopped. It's simple logic that If she was already In hospital dying, the assessment that deemed her fit for work, could not be the cause of her death.
What you and BB are trying to do, which Is the purpose of the article, Is to link the two for emotional blackmail re: welfare reform.
Yes, the department needs an overhaul pretty damn quick to avoid further stress to disabled patients but trying to link some numpty's error to a woman already In hospital dying Is sensationalist reporting and typical of the blame culture we now live In.
My husband Is older than me and past 65 and working age but he Is registered disabled. If he for example had a letter saying his benefit was being stopped then you take action Immediately. And believe me, what ever you think, the department of SS does not just stop your money. There Is always a letter that precedes It telling you what Is about to happen and why.
The first thing you would do is phone them. Then, on the letter, there Is the chance to appeal because what ever you believe, this Is not Nazi Germany and they simply are not allowed to just stop any benefit without Informing you first and giving you chance to appeal.
The next procedure Is a letter from your hospital consultant to the department stating you are unfit for work. In many cases that alone Is accepted but In some cases, the department can ask you to be given a medical by their Independent doctor and you have the chance to show them all your medical details to prove you are unable to work.
That Is what I would do If my husband was under 65 and he received such a letter.
Under Section 102 and Schedule 11 of The Welfare Reform Act, patients who are deemed fit for work can continue to claim Employment Support Allowance by Immediately lodging an appeal.
The latest changes to the benefit system will see anyone receiving Incapacity benefit, being switched to ESA but If you are found fit for work under their assessment, you can appeal and more Importantly switch to Job Seekers Allowance. Now that's not to say, that Is wrong In this lady's case but It's designed to weed out those who claim disability allowance when they are fit for work. However, even under this reform, no-one Is left without any Income coming Into the house.
What the article has not stated for sensationalist reasons, Is that had she have not been In hospital dying, she could have simply switched from ESA to JSA and not been left without any form of benefit while she appealed. She didn't appeal but its clear she was unfortunately already dying In hospital. If her benefits were stopped while she was In hospital, It's because her husband did not switch her from ESA to JSA or lodge an appeal.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
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Betty Boop
- Posts: 16935
- Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 1:17 pm
- Location: The end of the World
Death of a welfare scrounger
oscar;1428358 wrote:
You would rather twist my words so that It appears I have said ' Oh well, so what, she would have died anyway' and that Is not what I said Is It ?
No one twisted anything, you did say it.
oscar;1428290 wrote:
The chances are this lady would have died anyway just by the stats.
You would rather twist my words so that It appears I have said ' Oh well, so what, she would have died anyway' and that Is not what I said Is It ?
No one twisted anything, you did say it.
oscar;1428290 wrote:
The chances are this lady would have died anyway just by the stats.
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Oscar Namechange
- Posts: 31842
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:26 am
Death of a welfare scrounger
Betty Boop;1428426 wrote: No one twisted anything, you did say it.
Given the husband stated In the article that she was already dying In hospital when her benefits were stopped. this Is what I said.
"
The Mail article Is sensationalist reporting again. The ensuing health problems following an heart and lung transplant are enormous and It has major risks and complications.
20 % of patients don't live beyond a year. After just 3 years between 55 % and 70 % are still alive. Most die after just 5 years.
The chances are this lady would have died anyway just by the stats. To state that It was her being deemed fit for work Is libelous although money worries may have played a very very small part In hindering recovery.
That Is not to say the numpty who deemed her fit for work needs sacking."
What you have done Is taken two short sentences and taken them totally out of context to suit your own agenda which has now taken the thread off topic.
So I put It to you... where In my paragraph In It's entirety, have I said " So what If they stopped her benefits, she would have died anyway" or words to that effect In the context of the entire paragraph ?
Or are you just guessing what I was thinking as I wrote?
Given the husband stated In the article that she was already dying In hospital when her benefits were stopped. this Is what I said.
"
The Mail article Is sensationalist reporting again. The ensuing health problems following an heart and lung transplant are enormous and It has major risks and complications.
20 % of patients don't live beyond a year. After just 3 years between 55 % and 70 % are still alive. Most die after just 5 years.
The chances are this lady would have died anyway just by the stats. To state that It was her being deemed fit for work Is libelous although money worries may have played a very very small part In hindering recovery.
That Is not to say the numpty who deemed her fit for work needs sacking."
What you have done Is taken two short sentences and taken them totally out of context to suit your own agenda which has now taken the thread off topic.
So I put It to you... where In my paragraph In It's entirety, have I said " So what If they stopped her benefits, she would have died anyway" or words to that effect In the context of the entire paragraph ?
Or are you just guessing what I was thinking as I wrote?
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
Death of a welfare scrounger
You know oscar, if you were driving the wrong way up a one way street you would insist that you were in fact only driving one way street and the fact that you were going the wrong way didn't alter the fact that you were going one way therefore there was nothing wrong with your action.
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Oscar Namechange
- Posts: 31842
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:26 am
Death of a welfare scrounger
gmc;1428456 wrote: You know oscar, if you were driving the wrong way up a one way street you would insist that you were in fact only driving one way street and the fact that you were going the wrong way didn't alter the fact that you were going one way therefore there was nothing wrong with your action. Then let me clarify as you seem to believe you know what I am thinking as I type now.
As the survival rate of double heart and lung transplants Is relatively short and given her husband stated she was already dying In hospital, having her benefits stopped as she lay dying In hospital, would not be the cause of death that you seem to believe It was.
As the survival rate of double heart and lung transplants Is relatively short and given her husband stated she was already dying In hospital, having her benefits stopped as she lay dying In hospital, would not be the cause of death that you seem to believe It was.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
Death of a welfare scrounger
oscar;1428458 wrote: Then let me clarify as you seem to believe you know what I am thinking as I type now.
As the survival rate of double heart and lung transplants Is relatively short and given her husband stated she was already dying In hospital, having her benefits stopped as she lay dying In hospital, would not be the cause of death that you seem to believe It was.
:-5:-5:-5
As the survival rate of double heart and lung transplants Is relatively short and given her husband stated she was already dying In hospital, having her benefits stopped as she lay dying In hospital, would not be the cause of death that you seem to believe It was.
:-5:-5:-5
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Oscar Namechange
- Posts: 31842
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:26 am
Death of a welfare scrounger
gmc;1428485 wrote: :-5:-5:-5 Is that some sort of Scottish code for ' I haven't got a clever enough answer ?'
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon