Gordon Brown Resigns

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Bill Sikes
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Gordon Brown Resigns

Post by Bill Sikes »

Peter Lake;1309724 wrote: I never had any feelings for Brown either way as i didn't think he did a good job but never believed he was that bad either.


Mr. Brown had good, bad, and things beyond his control.

Good - he seemed fairly honest. Bad: He seemed fairly incompetent. His biggest problem: Inheriting an economy so comprehensively wasted by the nefarious Tony Bliar that he could do nothing about it.

It's going to fall to others to sort out the mess we're in, and I do not envy them.
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Bill Sikes
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Gordon Brown Resigns

Post by Bill Sikes »

Peter Lake;1309714 wrote: My apologies Snowfire but is there a possibility that Cameron will welsh on the voting reform he promised Clegg?


I hope so.
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Peter Lake
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Post by Peter Lake »

Snowfire;1309726 wrote: :yh_rotfl ...and now she has to work with the Lib Dems. Is she throwing crockery about yet ?

Seriously, I'd love to know what made her defect. I'm delighted She'll private e mail you in the next few days for your answer she's just told me.
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Peter Lake
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Post by Peter Lake »

Bill Sikes;1309739 wrote: I hope so. I rather long for that hope also but do you believe he is capable of such dirty tactics?
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G#Gill
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Post by G#Gill »

They are all politicians aren't they? Of course they are capable of doing that. They're all the same ! I just don't trust ANY of them. What they say in their manifestos is totally different, as a rule, from what they actually do once they have the reins of power! Also I expect that the carrots, that were dangled in front of Clegg to persuade him to join forces with the conservatives, will be chopped up, thrown away, and forgotten about. There will be plentiful supplies of reasons why these carrots cannot be actually presented as promised :-5:-5
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Odie
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Post by Odie »

G#Gill;1309763 wrote: They are all politicians aren't they, of course they are capable of doing that. They're all the same ! I just don't trust ANY of them. What they say in their manifestos is totally different, as a rule, from what they actually do once they have the reins of power! :-5:-5


bingo!

They're the same everywhere, making promises and breaking them upon reaching office!:-5
Life is just to short for drama.
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beowulf
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Gordon Brown Resigns

Post by beowulf »

Bill Sikes;1309737 wrote: .

Good - he seemed fairly honest.

Inheriting an economy so comprehensively wasted by the nefarious Tony Bliar that he could do nothing about it.

.


honest?.......i must have missed that 10 minutes somewhere over the last couple of years

i wouldnt trust any politician.....

as for inheriting an economy of blair.....you forget that brown was chancillor so he was in charge of the money....it was he that took the decision to sell all the gold stocks when the price was lowest
The dogs philosophy on life. If you cant eat it, hump it or fight it,........ Pee on it and walk away!!



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gmc
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Post by gmc »

beowulf;1309765 wrote: honest?.......i must have missed that 10 minutes somewhere over the last couple of years

i wouldnt trust any politician.....

as for inheriting an economy of blair.....you forget that brown was chancillor so he was in charge of the money....it was he that took the decision to sell all the gold stocks when the price was lowest


Not just that he is the one that raided everybody's pension's and single handedly destroyed what was one of the best company's pension's schemes in europe. He is also the one that allowed northern rock to loan 125% loan to value mortgages, he was also the one that set up the FSA and further eased the regulation of the banking industry and completely ignored all the signs that something was wrong. That everyone else did is no excuse. He is also the one that brought in means tested benefits so complicated that half those entitled can't understand and don't claim and the rest play the system and left a tax system that penalises those on the lowest income. He will go down in history as one of the most destructive chancellors we have ever had. All he has been interested in is getting power and he is a destructive control freak.

Sod it name anything good he achieved.
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Peter Lake
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Post by Peter Lake »

gmc;1309796 wrote: Not just that he is the one that raided everybody's pension's and single handedly destroyed what was one of the best company's pension's schemes in europe. He is also the one that allowed northern rock to loan 125% loan to value mortgages, he was also the one that set up the FSA and further eased the regulation of the banking industry and completely ignored all the signs that something was wrong. That everyone else did is no excuse. He is also the one that brought in means tested benefits so complicated that half those entitled can't understand and don't claim and the rest play the system and left a tax system that penalises those on the lowest income. He will go down in history as one of the most destructive chancellors we have ever had. All he has been interested in is getting power and he is a destructive control freak.

Sod it name anything good he achieved.
Blair inherited Tory debts and Brown inherited the Tory debts and Blairs mess. He actually resided over the longest period of economic stability but you may just not agree with the methods he used.
gmc
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Post by gmc »

Peter Lake;1309929 wrote: Blair inherited Tory debts and Brown inherited the Tory debts and Blairs mess. He actually resided over the longest period of economic stability but you may just not agree with the methods he used.


The chancellor is one of the most powerful people in government. He backed tony blair all the way and shares the blame. The PM does not govern alone. The PM serves at the whim of parliament if there had been enough labour MP's with a backbone he could have been called to account. This notion that gordon brown was an innocent bystander is ludicrous. Oh dear poor gordon he was a victim of circumstance. Bollocks bollocks bollocks.

The nice thing about british politics is how rapidly someone can become an irrelevance whatever the delusions they might have to the contrary.
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Bill Sikes
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Post by Bill Sikes »

Peter Lake;1309929 wrote: Blair inherited Tory debts and Brown inherited the Tory debts and Blairs mess.


Labour, when they took over from the Conservatives, inherited an economy in pretty reasonable condition. Blair, followed by Brown, mucked it up completely.
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Bill Sikes
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Post by Bill Sikes »

gmc;1309969 wrote: This notion that gordon brown was an innocent bystander is ludicrous. Oh dear poor gordon he was a victim of circumstance.


I am not syre where you get "this notion that gordon brown was an innocent bystander". He played his part in the Blair government, of course. However, when he became PM, Blair having had the foresight to eff off, there was very little he could do to avert the forthcoming disaster.
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Bill Sikes
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Post by Bill Sikes »

beowulf;1309765 wrote: honest?.......i must have missed that 10 minutes somewhere


You chopped out some relevant words in my post. I wonder why, perhaps it was a cut 'n' paste mistake.

I said: "Good - he seemed fairly honest. Bad: He seemed fairly incompetent". I think that's a reasonable assessment.
Royd Fissure
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Post by Royd Fissure »

Bill Sikes;1310011 wrote: Labour, when they took over from the Conservatives, inherited an economy in pretty reasonable condition. Blair, followed by Brown, mucked it up completely.


If the economy was in good nick why was Labour elected? I'm not being disingenuous. It seems to me that governments lose elections, oppositions don't win them (and that isn't an original thought of course). But if things were going okay why did Britain turf out the Tories?
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Snowfire
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Post by Snowfire »

Royd Fissure;1310015 wrote: If the economy was in good nick why was Labour elected? I'm not being disingenuous. It seems to me that governments lose elections, oppositions don't win them (and that isn't an original thought of course). But if things were going okay why did Britain turf out the Tories?


We wanted to, long before Blair was elected. We'd had a gutful of Thatcher but up to the point when Blair, et al, came along, Labour was unelectable or at least seemed that way with the infighting and power struggles and the infiltration of Socialist Revolutionaries and Marxists and all sorts of loony left nut pots. Labour reinvented itself with the "New Labour" tag and we have regreted it since 1997.

You are quite right about Governments losing elections rather than the opposition winning them. Us electorate are such fickle creatures.

Who knows what will come of this Coalition. Some will presumable hate it but I'm much more optimistic. The much derided ID card is now scrapped so thats a great start as far as I'm concerned and a few bob (£5 Billion ) saved to boot
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gmc
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Post by gmc »

Bill Sikes;1310012 wrote: I am not syre where you get "this notion that gordon brown was an innocent bystander". He played his part in the Blair government, of course. However, when he became PM, Blair having had the foresight to eff off, there was very little he could do to avert the forthcoming disaster.


I think you misunderstand my post. It was in reply to peter lake's post implyingh none of this was gordon's fault. He is very far from being an innocent bystander.

How early on was Gordon Brown warned about his economic incompetence and over-borrowing? - Future fair for all?

Don't know who the above people are, i was looking for some articles pointing how much brown was to blame. Some of the links make the point well enough.

If you do a trawl you can find literally hundreds of warnings about what was coming. Try also a search under ninja loans (no income, no job, no assets) anyone with half a brain could work out what was going to happen. Gordon brown was the one that allowed 125% loan to value mortgages in the UK - the very same that led to Northern rocks downfall. He also eased further the restrictions on bank activity. Far from being prudent he was a complete imbecile.

There was a lot he could have done to curtail the effect it had on our economy. He probably believes his own spin and many seem to as well.

posted by royd fissure

If the economy was in good nick why was Labour elected? I'm not being disingenuous. It seems to me that governments lose elections, oppositions don't win them (and that isn't an original thought of course). But if things were going okay why did Britain turf out the Tories?


The fault lies in our first past the post system. New labour had a smaller share of the vote than they had in 1979 - an election they lost substantially according to the number of seats they had.

Labour had 256 seats, in only 140 of those did they have more than 50% of the vote. Put it another way in 216 of the seats labour won more people voted against them than for them yet they got the seat. Labour polled about 9.5 million votes and got 356 seats. liberal democrats got 6.6 million (roughly) and got 56. Only an idiot can call that fair democracy

If you look at the just past election it's the same pattern. By share of the vote liberal democrats should have 230 seats. In terms of actual votes cast the libcon coalition represent far more than labour.

neither labour or tory really want Proportional representation for the simple reason neither would ever be able to govern unchecked again. They would have to face the reality that most people hate their guts.
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