BNP closed down

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gmc
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Post by gmc »

Judge bans racist BNP from taking on any new members




BNP closed to new members after judge deems application criteria racist | Mail Online

Funny as this is what annoys me is that in this country the discrimination we tolerate is that of religion. I find faith schools deeply offensive.

1) because at least in scotland they operate like selective secondary schools in terms of ability-other state schools don't allow exclusions except in extreme cases but the faith schools turf out anyone who is disruptive or who isn't uop to it 'cademically.

2) they are incredibly divisive-if you want people to live together as adults teach don't teach them discrimination is OK-just look at northern ireland where you can have adults terrorising primary children to try and stop mixed schools working.

3) I object to paying for them. relgion shpuld perhaps be taight as a subject but there is no catholic, protestant or muslim approach to science or mathematics.

So maybe this will open up the debate-if it is wrong to discriminate on race then it is just as wrong to allow religious organisations to plead a special right to be bigots.
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flopstock
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Post by flopstock »

Does your country have separation of church and state ?



Could the BNP conceivably register as a religious group?
I expressly forbid the use of any of my posts anywhere outside of FG (with the exception of the incredibly witty 'get a room already' )posted recently.

Folks who'd like to copy my intellectual work should expect to pay me for it.:-6

gmc
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Post by gmc »

flopstock;1296946 wrote: Does your country have separation of church and state ?



Could the BNP conceivably register as a religious group?


Not quite. the queen is head of the church of england but not the church of scotland, the archbishop of canterbuty is appointed by the prime minister-which is why if Blair had come out as a catholic while in office there would have been a right carry on about him appointing to the church of england. Gordon brown is Presbyterian but the question hasn't come up for him. I would consider it wrong if he were allowed to appoint an archbishop-his predecessor concealed his religious faith from the voter. Hypocrisy is not a sin apparently.

They can't register as a religious group but it does beg the same question about the christian party in the UK (yes we do have one but no one votes for them and it's not clear if they are catholic Christians or protestant Christians. For what the difference is ah well let's not go there.) If there was a muslim party calling for sharia law that could cause a right stooshie.

But should religious parties not be banned for banning atheists? If the bnp just banned muslims but allowed coloured people so long as they were christian would that be OK? I almost hope they try that argument.

The catholic church bans 50% of the population from ever being priests and taking mass, why is that not sexist? If a church can bar election of it's leadership on grounds of sex why am I anti-Catholic and offensive for saying I think it wrong? But if I say I dislike Thatcher no one thinks it odd I should express such anti-tory sentiment. No one assumes I hate the tories and no one thinks I shouldn't be allowed to express an opinion.

I dislike the BNP but none of them have claimed personal offence because I disagree with their beliefs.
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Bill Sikes
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Post by Bill Sikes »

gmc;1296908 wrote: Funny as this is what annoys me is that (snip)


I can't see any reason for being other than pleased that the BNP has been prevented from taking on new members.
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kazalala
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Post by kazalala »

gmc;1296908 wrote: BNP closed to new members after judge deems application criteria racist | Mail Online

Funny as this is what annoys me is that in this country the discrimination we tolerate is that of religion. I find faith schools deeply offensive.

1) because at least in scotland they operate like selective secondary schools in terms of ability-other state schools don't allow exclusions except in extreme cases but the faith schools turf out anyone who is disruptive or who isn't uop to it 'cademically.

2) they are incredibly divisive-if you want people to live together as adults teach don't teach them discrimination is OK-just look at northern ireland where you can have adults terrorising primary children to try and stop mixed schools working.

3) I object to paying for them. relgion shpuld perhaps be taight as a subject but there is no catholic, protestant or muslim approach to science or mathematics.

So maybe this will open up the debate-if it is wrong to discriminate on race then it is just as wrong to allow religious organisations to plead a special right to be bigots.


here here!!!(or is it hear hear:o) anyway well said in my opinion! :)




FOC THREAD PART1

In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends.

Martin Luther King Jr.
gmc
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Post by gmc »

Bill Sikes;1296971 wrote: I can't see any reason for being other than pleased that the BNP has been prevented from taking on new members.


I've got very little time for the BNP but there is a double standard being applied here.

The same legislation also covers discrimination on the grounds of sexual orientation or lifestyle. We have religious groups objecting on the grounds of it offends their religious beliefs. The bible tells it so they say-just as the bible was used to justify slavery when finally the consensus in society was that slavery was wrong the bible was used to justify the continued enslavement of a race. It's easier to justify if you can convince yourself the victim is not a human being.

The holocaust could not have happened without centuries of teaching that the jews killed jesus and therefore were not really people worthy of consideration, prejudice justified and easily extended to other groups. It's making a judgement of someone's worth and claiming the right to not extend the same rights and consideration that you yourself take for granted, institutionalised prejudice is institutionalised prejudice no matter who it is directed at. Yet they are backing off from making churches obey the laws of the land. Trying arguing it's against your religious beliefs to pay a parking fine.

Maybe the BNP should stand as the christian knights defending us all against the muslim hordes. worked for tony and GW.
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Bill Sikes
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Post by Bill Sikes »

gmc;1297028 wrote: I've got very little time for the BNP but there is a double standard being applied here.


So you *aren't* pleased that their new membership is closed?
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Bryn Mawr
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Post by Bryn Mawr »

Bill Sikes;1297042 wrote: So you *aren't* pleased that their new membership is closed?


I would be were it permanent but it's likely to be very temporary.
gmc
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Post by gmc »

Bill Sikes;1297042 wrote: So you *aren't* pleased that their new membership is closed?


As Bryn says it will only be temporary. Besides trying to shut them up isn't the way to deal with them. The reality is there are people who share their racist views and they also raise an issue that does concern many-there is a finite amount of people the UK can support especially when we have a declining industrial base to generate wealth. A service economy is all very well but all it does is make a few very rich. They mainstream parties aren't listening and they are gathering protest votes as people get top the point they will do almost anything to make govt listen.

Their economic and constitutional policies are ludicrous but they've become a one issue party that appeals to a certain type. There is a double standard being applied when it comes to race equality laws. they should either apply to all organisations or to none because when you start allowing dispensation for one type of organisation to not apply a law designed to ensure fair treatment for all you may as well not bother.

We fought long and hard to have a secular society and one where all have a right to be treated equally reagardless of race or creed and while it's flawed basically most people would accept that is a reasonable ideal to aim for and it is under threat and it's not just from the likes of the BNP.
Bruv
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Post by Bruv »

What was the logic behind not taking new members ?
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
gmc
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Post by gmc »

Bruv;1297170 wrote: What was the logic behind not taking new members ?


Not their decision, they've been banned from doing so until they re-write their constitution.
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flopstock
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Post by flopstock »

I really don't understand this I suppose. Are they getting government funds or something that allows this interference?



Do prolife groups have to allow pro choice members over there?
I expressly forbid the use of any of my posts anywhere outside of FG (with the exception of the incredibly witty 'get a room already' )posted recently.

Folks who'd like to copy my intellectual work should expect to pay me for it.:-6

Bruv
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Post by Bruv »

gmc;1297180 wrote: Not their decision, they've been banned from doing so until they re-write their constitution.


I thought they had complied, with a fanfare and a new Sikh member ?
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
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Bill Sikes
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Post by Bill Sikes »

gmc;1297148 wrote: As Bryn says it will only be temporary. Besides trying to shut them up isn't the way to deal with them.


You still haven't said whether or not you think it's a good thing.

It's not that this closure is an attempt to shut them up - they've got to comply with the rules, and when they do, they can re-open their membership list.
gmc
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Post by gmc »

flopstock;1297222 wrote: I really don't understand this I suppose. Are they getting government funds or something that allows this interference?



Do prolife groups have to allow pro choice members over there?


It's in the article

While it is not illegal to hold racist views, it is against the Race Relations Act for a political party's recruitment rules to be based on discrimination, the judge said.

Judge Collins instructed the party to close its membership list until the constitution had been re-written.


Think of the BNP as a kind of british Ku Klux Klan, they are the present day incarnation of the british nazi party

posted by Bill Sikes

You still haven't said whether or not you think it's a good thing.

It's not that this closure is an attempt to shut them up - they've got to comply with the rules, and when they do, they can re-open their membership list.




It's neither one thing or the other. If you believe in free speech then they are entitled to their opinion. They do raise issues that are of concern. When they cross the line in to intimidation it's gets to be a more thorny problem. The trouble with far left, far right, religious nutters is that they assume liberal democracy is weak because it tolerates dissent and think they can take advantage of that tolerance to get their own way.

I don't think they should be banned just as I don't think the communist party should be banned. If they don't respect the law of the land they should be forced to comply-as they have been. I happen to think the law should apply equally to religious organisations who claim their faith gives them special dispensation to discriminate against those they don't like.
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Bill Sikes
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Post by Bill Sikes »

gmc;1297245 wrote: I


Be careful with your quoting. You have attributed words to me in #16 which I did not say.
gmc
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Post by gmc »

Bill Sikes;1297272 wrote: Be careful with your quoting. You have attributed words to me in #16 which I did not say.


:oLook at #14 I was answering your question. #16 was me adding content to #15 but I went wrong somewhere.
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Oscar Namechange
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Post by Oscar Namechange »

gmc;1296908 wrote: BNP closed to new members after judge deems application criteria racist | Mail Online

Funny as this is what annoys me is that in this country the discrimination we tolerate is that of religion. I find faith schools deeply offensive.

1) because at least in scotland they operate like selective secondary schools in terms of ability-other state schools don't allow exclusions except in extreme cases but the faith schools turf out anyone who is disruptive or who isn't uop to it 'cademically.

2) they are incredibly divisive-if you want people to live together as adults teach don't teach them discrimination is OK-just look at northern ireland where you can have adults terrorising primary children to try and stop mixed schools working.

3) I object to paying for them. relgion shpuld perhaps be taight as a subject but there is no catholic, protestant or muslim approach to science or mathematics.

So maybe this will open up the debate-if it is wrong to discriminate on race then it is just as wrong to allow religious organisations to plead a special right to be bigots.
Was It your Intention to deliberately mis-lead any-one seeing this thread by your title?

The BNP has not been shut down as you put It. Do you actually read newspapers or just make It up as you go along?

The BNP suspended new membership whilst It re-wrote the new constitution. That new constitution was rejected by the Judge who asked for further amendments. Until those amendments have been made, the closure to new members stands.

It Is all Irrelevent any-way. It matters not If new memberships can not be taken for the time being. It does not stop Parlimentary Candidates standing In the General Election and It does not relieve the BNP of the funds to fund the Election. Parlimentary Candidates are still standing and people will still vote for them.

Hardly shut down Is It?
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
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abbey
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Post by abbey »

oscar;1297958 wrote: Was It your Intention to deliberately mis-lead any-one seeing this thread by your title?



The BNP has not been shut down as you put It. Do you actually read newspapers or just make It up as you go along?



The BNP suspended new membership whilst It re-wrote the new constitution. That new constitution was rejected by the Judge who asked for further amendments. Until those amendments have been made, the closure to new members stands.



It Is all Irrelevent any-way. It matters not If new memberships can not be taken for the time being. It does not stop Parlimentary Candidates standing In the General Election and It does not relieve the BNP of the funds to fund the Election. Parlimentary Candidates are still standing and people will still vote for them.



Hardly shut down Is It? More's the pity :(
gmc
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Post by gmc »

oscar;1297958 wrote: Was It your Intention to deliberately mis-lead any-one seeing this thread by your title?

The BNP has not been shut down as you put It. Do you actually read newspapers or just make It up as you go along?

The BNP suspended new membership whilst It re-wrote the new constitution. That new constitution was rejected by the Judge who asked for further amendments. Until those amendments have been made, the closure to new members stands.

It Is all Irrelevent any-way. It matters not If new memberships can not be taken for the time being. It does not stop Parlimentary Candidates standing In the General Election and It does not relieve the BNP of the funds to fund the Election. Parlimentary Candidates are still standing and people will still vote for them.

Hardly shut down Is It?


Ah dear daily mail reader do you always take everything literally and believe everything you read?



fa·ce·tious

   

–adjective

1.

not meant to be taken seriously or literally: a facetious remark.

2.

amusing; humorous.

3.

lacking serious intent; concerned with something nonessential, amusing, or frivolous: a facetious person.


I saw a pig flying last night - is that a sign Gordon Brown will win the next election or could it have been the big bag of wind himself:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl
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