Fox Comes to Visit

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Thu May 07, 2009 12:35 am

Of course I thought first of Oscar when seeing this and was going to send it to her but why not share something this cool with everyone?

A little photo essay about a fox visiting a campsite. Lots of photos so I will just leave the link here.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Thu May 07, 2009 3:59 am

RedGlitter;1184657 wrote: Of course I thought first of Oscar when seeing this and was going to send it to her but why not share something this cool with everyone?

A little photo essay about a fox visiting a campsite. Lots of photos so I will just leave the link here. RED........ Thankyou so much for posting this for me and for everyone.

I loved it and it cheers me to see another fox so trusting and kindness shown to him.

I absolutely adore them and if you've read my posts you will know that i fought tooth and nail for many years to get fox hunting in England made illegal.

They truely are magnificent creatures with an amazing intelligence. Although i do not encourage my own pack to become tame, they look me in the eye, their heads go to one side with ears pricked when i talk and the pack leader rubs against my legs almost wanting me to pet him. Sometimes when i am out in the dark with them, they will go rigid and point in the direction of danger and circle round me.

I have a High Street chain store of Deli's who deliver me a sack of meat every friday, mostly chicken that once it reaches it's three day limit, they freeze it for my foxes. I also get a huge amount of meat from the local take-away for them and they especially love the kebab meat.

I have two vixens with cubs at the moment. They are spending most of their time in earth and the males are snatching food and taking it back to earth to keep returning for more. I estimate another few weeks and they will bring the baby's to me. Pete bought an infa red cctv camera yesterday to capture the moments when they happen and i have a guy coming at the weekend to install it so i hope to post some pics up here for you to see.

Thanks again Red........ I really appreciate you posting this :-4

Victoria · Post by **Victoria** » Thu May 07, 2009 5:04 am

RedGlitter;1184657 wrote: Of course I thought first of Oscar when seeing this and was going to send it to her but why not share something this cool with everyone?

A little photo essay about a fox visiting a campsite. Lots of photos so I will just leave the link here.

Ahh Red. Great photo's I miss foxes.

We used to have them come into the back garden when I lived in Surrey but although everyone say Holland is full of them I haven't seen one in 19 years!

When I went back to England I was sitting outside a pub about 7pm and a fox came wandering past bold as brass. I love seeing them.

qsducks · Post by **qsducks** » Thu May 07, 2009 6:23 am

RedGlitter;1184657 wrote: Of course I thought first of Oscar when seeing this and was going to send it to her but why not share something this cool with everyone?

A little photo essay about a fox visiting a campsite. Lots of photos so I will just leave the link here.

What cool pix Red. Thanks for sharing.:-4

daBunnyWendy7 · Post by **daBunnyWendy7** » Thu May 07, 2009 10:01 am

Red, thank you for sharing this!!! What lovely photos!!!

Oscar, I am SO GLAD you no longer hunt fox in England!!!:)

Way to go !!!

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Thu May 07, 2009 11:02 am

daBunnyWendy7;1184903 wrote: Red, thank you for sharing this!!! What lovely photos!!!

Oscar, I am SO GLAD you no longer hunt fox in England!!!:)

Way to go !!! Some MP's want to repeal the law but it'll be over my dead body.

Have a look at these cuties:

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daBunnyWendy7 · Post by **daBunnyWendy7** » Thu May 07, 2009 12:01 pm

Cute!!! How many do you feed? I have to say it again. I am SO GLAD there's no more fox hunting!!!:)

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Thu May 07, 2009 1:06 pm

daBunnyWendy7;1184946 wrote: Cute!!! How many do you feed? I have to say it again. I am SO GLAD there's no more fox hunting!!!:)
They are a wild pack. The Alpha leadrer has been coming for 7 years and his vixen has been with him for about 5 yers now. It's an extended family that comes to the garden every night bang on midnight. Some are prevous cubs that have stayed with the pack, some move on to their own terrritory once they get to about a year old. Durring rutting (fox mating season) we get newbie vixens join the pack looking for a mate and occassionally they stay on. It varies on how many of the extended family come along each night but the least i have is 5 and the most can be 12 or 15 in one night. On average it is around 7 to 9 most nights.

daBunnyWendy7 · Post by **daBunnyWendy7** » Thu May 07, 2009 1:10 pm

Wow! How neat! That's great that those restaurants are donating their leftovers!!! Can't wait to see some of your pictures!

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Thu May 07, 2009 1:21 pm

daBunnyWendy7;1185008 wrote: Wow! How neat! That's great that those restaurants are donating their leftovers!!! Can't wait to see some of your pictures!

Yes, we bought an infa red camera that's being installed at the weekend as photographing them has been a nightmare. We live in a private road that has no street lighting at all. Outside the garden is field with no lighting so it is pitch black darkeness by midnight. I have tried to photograph them before but all i get his red eyes in a sea of darkness. I have to juggle the hand held flash light i carry and a camera. Hopefully the new infa red remote camera on the roof will get us some great images. :-4

Kathy Ellen · Post by **Kathy Ellen** » Thu May 07, 2009 2:28 pm

Lovely pics RedGlitter...Good to see you posting today:-4:D

daBunnyWendy7 · Post by **daBunnyWendy7** » Thu May 07, 2009 2:33 pm

Oscar, I am going to share this w my children! They grew up reading detailed cards on all kinds of animals and fishes even detailing phyllum.

I homeshooled them for several years. Now they're in public schools. Good luck w the camera!!! Does it have a remote control?:)

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Thu May 07, 2009 3:04 pm

I'm happy you guys liked the photos!

Oscar I like that nighttime shot with glowing eyes especially. It burns me that anyone would want to harm such a cool creature.

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Thu May 07, 2009 8:13 pm

RedGlitter;1184657 wrote: Of course I thought first of Oscar when seeing this and was going to send it to her but why not share something this cool with everyone?

A little photo essay about a fox visiting a campsite. Lots of photos so I will just leave the link here.

fox are wild animals...when someone feeds them.....they stay around for that reason only.........and become 'friends' people think.....but they are only there for food........so be careful as they will turn on you....as they are wild and not to be trusted........even though hey are just so cute.....owners beware......it may not happen now.......but they do have animal instincts.

let them roam free as god make them to do so, why capture wild animals?

what what happens when you move?

.........no one would feed them?

they would now starve to death....as their hunting instincts are gone.

and the more that are around...end up killing farmer livstock and pet owners, ducks, geese etc.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Fri May 08, 2009 3:03 am

Odie;1185218 wrote: fox are wild animals...when someone feeds them.....they stay around for that reason only.........and become 'friends' people think.....but they are only there for food........so be careful as they will turn on you....as they are wild and not to be trusted........even though hey are just so cute.....owners beware......it may not happen now.......but they do have animal instincts.

let them roam free as god make them to do so, why capture wild animals?

what what happens when you move?

.........no one would feed them?

they would now starve to death....as their hunting instincts are gone.

and the more that are around...end up killing farmer livstock and pet owners, ducks, geese etc.

I'm sorry Odie but i have never read so much rubbish in all my life.

I have spent nearly 30 years campaigning to get fox hunting made illegal and in that time, i have done massive research into Red and Urbane foxes. I have books and books and books and video's and cd's and know more fox experts than you'll know in a lifetime. For one Odie...... do you actually know what the staple diet of a fox is???????? It's worms...... eathworms. That's why they dig. Second to earth worms, it's small rodents such as mice that they can find anywhere. Then, they go for fruit....... they particually like berries.

Where do you get it from that they are 'Captured'??

Now let me dispel another myth...... two actually. One..... there has never been a recorded incident in the Uk of a fox attacking a human. An occassional nip from an injured fox while your are trying to help him may occur but attack is out of the question. The fox is the shyest most timid animal and friendship with humans is extremely rare taking years of trust to build up. Secondly, there is not one reported case of a fox killing cats. At best foxes will share their food with a cat and at worst a vixen will chase an inquisitive cat from her cubs.

Now to your concerns about my foxes....... First i lived in a very rural area where the foxes are Red (they are different to Urbane foxes). Over ten years, 4,000 houses have been built on their fields forcing them into the village. Many get killed on the main roads they put through them. Another 12,000 houses are proposed by 2012 which will take away more of their greenbelt. I have been protesting with local Tory Councillors waving placards in the streets and getting signatures for petitions to lobby Gordon Brown to stop the plans for the past three years. That's because i get off my arsse and do some-thing !!! The foxes that have been forced from their natural fields are starving and some have been shot with air rifles by new home-owners who's houses now sit where the foxes earths used to be.

I do not go out and get my foxes....... they came to me after their earths were built on by housing developments very near to my home. They have re-settled in the grounds of the school next to my home that has extensive grounds. Even, if i did not exist..... these foxes would still survive on what they get out of the bins from the school. In desperate times, my foxes could visit the land fill site where many of the foxes forced out of their earths go every night to feed but sadly they have to dice death with a main road and many get killed. Mr O regually picks their injured and dead bodies up from the road down by the tip and buries them or whisks them off to the National fox resue society or RSPCA in bristol where out of our own pockets, we pay for their treatment. Our foxes are regually also given jam sandwiches which contains the powder sent to me by the National fox rescue society to combat mange and keep them healthy.

Should i ever move house or something happened to me then my neighbour who takes over while we are on holiday would take over my job as he also loves them to bits.

In the 9 years that my foxes have CHOSEN to vsiit me every night and come of their own free will, ( Clarkeson and his family the last 7 years) we have never hand fed them or tried to touch them to ensure they keep their instincts. Every thing Mr O and i do with our foxes is down to guidelines by the National Fox Society of the UK.

There are no farms in our area in which these foxes could hunt lamb or chicken anyway so they are forced to scavenge in household bins.

Red foxes were hunted in deep countryside as they do not have towns full of bins to scavenge in and there-fore have no choice but to attack frams for their food. There is a world of difference between them and the one's who choose to visit me very night.

For the past 9 years, the foxes that CHOOSE to come to me are safe. They do not get hit by cars trying to get to the tip nor do they get shot by new home-owners on their earths. Any sign of severe illness or injury, we can trap them if absolutely nessessary and pay for them out of our own pockets to be treated and returned once well enough.

This is what i have spent three years campaigning against.... more greenbelt being taken from our wild-life which will see the death of more foxes, badgers, birds and other wild life:

http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/news/Mee ... ticle.html

As for killing ducks and geese as you say, again it shows how little you know about the fox. If you read Carolly's account of a fox taking her duck correctly, you would have read that she wrote that she had no ill feeling to the fox as it was doing what comes naturally. Weather a fox is fed by a human as ours are or not, the instinct is still there. Rural foxes go for geese and ducks as there are not too many urbane bins to scavenge in. Carolly also lives in a rural area with fields at the back of her house, so what do you expect? No foxes?? If you knew anything about the nature of foxes you will know their feeding habits. For one, a fox will only take nightly what it can eat or a vixen with cubs can eat. If a fox is over-fed, it will bury the excess for times of famine. If a wild fox is hungry enough and there are no bins to get food from, they can travel miles looking for food and can smell a goose or duck a mile away. The fox does not have to live on some-one's doorstep to attack their duck in their back yard.... it can come from miles away and carry the duck miles back to it's earth. No dis-respect to any-one, but if your keeping ducks and geese, and you have fields around your house, it's sensible to erect fencing to keep roaming foxes out as most farmers do. You have this arsse about face. Foxes only kill if their is no food available (mostly).... the more people who feed them.... the less need for them to take pet ducks and geese. Urbane foxes who live in towns do not kill pets simply because there is enough waste from resturants, food outlets and land filled sites and home owners bins to keep them happy.

Your also completely contradicting yourself. In one line you critisize folk like me for feeding them and stopping them having to stray onto the main road and the next line your complaining that they take geese and ducks. As there are no geese or ducks in my area, they do not have to cross main roads to get to them even if they wanted them. Perhaps you could google their feeding habits? You'd see they their staple diet is earthworms, fruit and vegetables as well as meat.

What do you do to save your wildlife??????

How many times have your friends phoned you in the night to tell you there is an injured fox lying in the road? How many times have you got in your car in the dead of night with a spine board and blankets, driven miles, rung the 24 hour RSPCA rescue, scraped that bloodied injured fox up from the road to save it dying a slow agonising death from it's injuries, put it in your car and met the RSPCA vets at the centre downtown waiting for you to arrive? We even have traffic cones here at our house that we take with us to cordone off the section of the road if the injured fox is lying in the road and likely to be hit by another passing car. (The police gave them to us specifically for that use). How many times have you jumped for joy when they phoned you in the morning to tell you he made it through the night? How many times have you cried because he didn't make it through the night and you've still got his blood soaked into your clothes? How many times have you paid for his treatment out of your own pocket? How many times have you collected him when he's recovered and returned him to the wild?

How many fox hunts did you try to sabotage and how many times have you heard the high pitched scream of a fox just as the hounds move in to rip him to pieces? How many young new born cubs have you found dead, starved, in their earth where their mother didn't come back?

When you have done all that for years, then you can critisize what i do.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Fri May 08, 2009 3:10 am

RedGlitter;1185103 wrote: I'm happy you guys liked the photos!

Oscar I like that nighttime shot with glowing eyes especially. It burns me that anyone would want to harm such a cool creature. One night Red.... I'd sat up late watching the Ammitiville horror film. After it finished i went out down the bottom of the garden and shone the flash light round and all i could see were many pairs of evil red eyes staring at me from the bushes. :wah: that night i dumped their food and ran like hell back to the house :wah:

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Fri May 08, 2009 3:54 am

Odie;1185218 wrote: fox are wild animals...when someone feeds them.....they stay around for that reason only.........and become 'friends' people think.....but they are only there for food........so be careful as they will turn on you....as they are wild and not to be trusted........even though hey are just so cute.....owners beware......it may not happen now.......but they do have animal instincts.

let them roam free as god make them to do so, why capture wild animals?

what what happens when you move?

.........no one would feed them?

they would now starve to death....as their hunting instincts are gone.

and the more that are around...end up killing farmer livstock and pet owners, ducks, geese etc.

Safe with us..... or perhaps you'd rather see them like this Odie?

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Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Fri May 08, 2009 3:57 am

I prefer to see them like this:

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Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Fri May 08, 2009 4:28 am

A few more Odie of what happens when housing developments build main roads through their land and earths. Safe with us?........ Or like this? Have you ever gone out to one of these and picked up the pieces?? And your trying to critisize people like me????:yh_rotfl

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Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Fri May 08, 2009 4:37 am

Well folks especially Red who has been away for a while. I put a thread on some weeks ago that i had decided to turn some of my yard into an injured fox and orphaned cub rescue home. After lots of checking with local council and getting quotes..... the men are here today laying the foundations for two runs. I hope to up load some pics of work so far today...... it's getting there and looking good.

:):-6

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Fri May 08, 2009 6:53 am

OK folks..... i just took some pics of the work in progress for 'Oscar Towers' Fox and orphaned cub rescue. Much has been going on behind the scenes to get this off the ground since i posted my plans some weeks ago. I don't have alot of room but this is the first area for two large runs that i may split into four smaller one's. The foxes will not be with me long so it's not a temporary home. It's just long enough for cubs to be hand reared until old enough to fend for themselves in the wild. Severley injured foxes will continue to be treated by the RSPCA and National Fox rescue but i will take the less serious until they are back on their feet.

I have been very lucky that a local outfit has offered to donate me the wooden shelters, similar to large dog kennels that will be going in later. The wiring and fencing is also being donated by the local building firm.

I estimate another three weeks of work and then were in business. YIPEEEEEEEEEEE :-6:-6:-6

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qsducks · Post by **qsducks** » Fri May 08, 2009 8:45 am

Well Oscar I must say that what you are doing to save the foxes is just fantastic!!!! Your knowledge & experience of the fox are way more than most people would know about. And I'm glad you have written that whole paragraph explaining about the foxes and dispelling myths, etc. We have foxes in our woods but most stay there & I'm sure they invade the trashcans of the peeps who live near the woods. I have yet to read about any other animal being attacked by foxes in my neighborhood.

The foxes who come to you are far more luckier than the ones that have been thrown off their land.:-4 and have to scavange for food & get killed in the road.

And for Red Glitter...abs. loved those foxy pix. A very nice thread for a very nice friend.:-4

Post by **pantoandy** » Fri May 08, 2009 10:26 am

keep up the good work oscar and take no gorm of odious odie

they are beautifull creatures that have the right to live.

wood lands should be retained not ripped out for housing or industrial estates :p:p:p:p

p.s im a animals of farthing wood fan even though im nearly 44

the grumps

minks · Post by **minks** » Fri May 08, 2009 10:45 am

Odie;1185218 wrote: fox are wild animals...when someone feeds them.....they stay around for that reason only.........and become 'friends' people think.....but they are only there for food........so be careful as they will turn on you....as they are wild and not to be trusted........even though hey are just so cute.....owners beware......it may not happen now.......but they do have animal instincts.

let them roam free as god make them to do so, why capture wild animals?

what what happens when you move?

.........no one would feed them?

they would now starve to death....as their hunting instincts are gone.

and the more that are around...end up killing farmer livstock and pet owners, ducks, geese etc.

I have to agree with Odie here, but perhaps it's because we here still have a lot of foxes running wild in this country. It is against provincial law and perhaps even federal law to feed wildlife of any sort. I feel it would be inhumane to make a wild animal dependant on humans for food as you take their natural instinct to hunt away. This then throws off the animal food chain drastically for both prey and preditor of the fox. Just my opinion as well.

It is nice to see your love of the animal "O" don't get me wrong but I guess given that I live among a great deal of wild animals I feel differently.

daBunnyWendy7 · Post by **daBunnyWendy7** » Fri May 08, 2009 3:47 pm

If mankind wants God's blessing, mankind must be responsible custodians of plant Earth and the diverse life therein. It's just that simple. Mankind overruns beautiful wildlands,hill and dale, forrest or desert.Life is precious. Who can deny this?:)

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Fri May 08, 2009 3:50 pm

daBunnyWendy7;1185621 wrote: If mankind wants God's blessing, mankind must be responsible custodians of plant Earth and the diverse life therein. It's just that simple. Mankind overruns beautiful wildlands,hill and dale, forrest or desert.Life is precious. Who can deny this?:) Beautiful and very wise words bunny Wendy and my sentiments exactly.

I apologise for putting the pics of the dead foxes hit by cars but it was to prove how mass house building here is killing them. I hope i didn't offend you.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Fri May 08, 2009 3:51 pm

pantoandy;1185420 wrote: keep up the good work oscar and take no gorm of odious odie

they are beautifull creatures that have the right to live.

wood lands should be retained not ripped out for housing or industrial estates :p:p:p:p

p.s im a animals of farthing wood fan even though im nearly 44

the grumps Andy..... as always.... my buddy.... my friend.....Thankyou :-4:-4

daBunnyWendy7 · Post by **daBunnyWendy7** » Fri May 08, 2009 3:59 pm

No, Oscar.I wasn't offended.Just made me sorrow. I wish we as humanbeings would step up to the plate and do more to make the world a better place. And I don't mean more grocery stores on every corner or more cement or asphalt parking lots for "convenience".I am still feeling so sad for all those beautiful animals who die on our roads. In Australia many beautilful threatened animals die on our roads there.

I am looking forward to seeing more pictures of healthy foxes and other beautiful wildlife. BTW no one complains about feeding our beautiful wild birds.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Fri May 08, 2009 4:05 pm

daBunnyWendy7;1185636 wrote: No, Oscar.I wasn't offended.Just made me sorrow. I wish we as humanbeings would step up to the plate and do more to make the world a better place. And I don't mean more grocery stores on every corner or more cement or asphalt parking lots for "convenience".I am still feeling so sad for all those beautiful animals who die on our roads. In Australia many beautilful threatened animals die on our roads there.

I am looking forward to seeing more pictures of healthy foxes and other beautiful wildlife. BTW no one complains about feeding our beautiful wild birds.

Your so right..... Foxes are mis-understood by the un-educated and persecuted by the ignorant.

Infact some foxes are more likely to dig up your vegetable plot than raid your chicken house. :wah:

You are spot on..... how can anyone critise feeding foxes forced out of their natural home from mass building and then encourage and feed birds of all descriptions? Slightly hypocritical.

I'm off for a short while as my dogs are barking at the front door. I just looked and i can see the foxes through the glass outside the door waiting for their food as it's midnight here in Britain. I'll be back shortly.

qsducks · Post by **qsducks** » Fri May 08, 2009 4:06 pm

daBunnyWendy7;1185636 wrote: No, Oscar.I wasn't offended.Just made me sorrow. I wish we as humanbeings would step up to the plate and do more to make the world a better place. And I don't mean more grocery stores on every corner or more cement or asphalt parking lots for "convenience".I am still feeling so sad for all those beautiful animals who die on our roads. In Australia many beautilful threatened animals die on our roads there.

I am looking forward to seeing more pictures of healthy foxes and other beautiful wildlife. BTW no one complains about feeding our beautiful wild birds.

No they don't do they? I usually put stale bread on the front lawn for our bird friends.:-4 And occasionally when I have a piece of fatty meat will throw that in the backyard for other friends whom I don't want to meet in the dark.:wah:

daBunnyWendy7 · Post by **daBunnyWendy7** » Fri May 08, 2009 4:20 pm

I've got to go soon, too. Kiddos need some affection!!! LOL! We are going out for pizza! I am a good cook but I don't have a brick oven for high temp baking. Pizza just hits the spot every so often. See you tomorrow if I don't hear back tonight. It's 4:16 here now. Late afternoon.

Ducks, I'm so glad you feed wildlife, too. We all owe care and thought to all life which God has seen fit to make us stewards of.

HUGS

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Fri May 08, 2009 4:44 pm

minks;1185435 wrote: I have to agree with Odie here, but perhaps it's because we here still have a lot of foxes running wild in this country. It is against provincial law and perhaps even federal law to feed wildlife of any sort. I feel it would be inhumane to make a wild animal dependant on humans for food as you take their natural instinct to hunt away. This then throws off the animal food chain drastically for both prey and preditor of the fox. Just my opinion as well.

It is nice to see your love of the animal "O" don't get me wrong but I guess given that I live among a great deal of wild animals I feel differently. Not at all Minks..... I value your opinion. I think the difference down to our opinions is the fact that we are in two very different countries with different laws. I am not too sur of the geography of your area but i'm guessing that Canada is a vast area with vast wild areas where foxes can live and hunt for food. There-fore it is foolish to tempt them into urbane neighbourhoods to feed them.

The difference here is that it is that we are a far smaller country. what is happening in my own immediate area is very common all over the country. Large swathes of countryside are succumbing to mass house building forcing the foxes from their habitat and homes. As the housing estates get bigger and fields dissapear, they just have no-where to go and get caught on the roads and new roads being built through what was once their own territory. They just have no-where else to go so like my foxes, they re-establish themselves in villages and even towns in green area where they feel relatively safe such as the school grounds next to my home. Many will feed at the landfill site and this is where they get killed on the main road. Once they are forced into villages and towns by mass building, they then scavenge for food. If people do feed them, it reduces the need for the fox to hunt. Providing you do not try to tame the foxes you feed, even over years, they do not lose their wild instincts. The pack that comes to me as an example, will come right to my legs when i'm putting the food on the ground but if Mr O is with me one night, they will not come within a few feet of me as even after 9 years they haven't lost their instinct to be wary of strangers. Also, even with the food we give them nightly, they still dig in my garden for eathworms which is their main diet.

I can see how our two countries would differ in how folk treat foxes. We are becoming a very crowded Island and wild animals including deer are being forced out of their habitats.

They don't ask to be born a fox..... they are here now and we should not persecute any animal.

qsducks · Post by **qsducks** » Fri May 08, 2009 4:44 pm

daBunnyWendy7;1185654 wrote: I've got to go soon, too. Kiddos need some affection!!! LOL! We are going out for pizza! I am a good cook but I don't have a brick oven for high temp baking. Pizza just hits the spot every so often. See you tomorrow if I don't hear back tonight. It's 4:16 here now. Late afternoon.

Ducks, I'm so glad you feed wildlife, too. We all owe care and thought to all life which God has seen fit to make us stewards of.

HUGS

Enjoy your pizza...btw I don't give the birds pizza...just water & bread. Yes, it's 7:44pm here in Philly and a beautiful day btw. I forgot to log out earlier...went out and enjoyed it.

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Fri May 08, 2009 6:13 pm

minks;1185435 wrote: I have to agree with Odie here, but perhaps it's because we here still have a lot of foxes running wild in this country. It is against provincial law and perhaps even federal law to feed wildlife of any sort. I feel it would be inhumane to make a wild animal dependant on humans for food as you take their natural instinct to hunt away. This then throws off the animal food chain drastically for both prey and preditor of the fox. Just my opinion as well.

It is nice to see your love of the animal "O" don't get me wrong but I guess given that I live among a great deal of wild animals I feel differently.

I have to agree with Minks on this one.......there are tons of fox everywhere here, but there are even more in rural areas and other country's.

I am thrilled to have this law as it is inhumane to make a wild animal dependent on humans feeding them, and as said previously said when people feed them, they no longer know how to hunt and survive, and as you also said, it throws off the animal food chain drastically.

and, as I said.....what happens when that person moves away, dies, or is no longer well enough to care for them?

those fox will no longer be feed......

they will die of starvation as they have lost their animal instinct to hunt.

qsducks · Post by **qsducks** » Fri May 08, 2009 8:02 pm

Odie;1185703 wrote: I have to agree with Minks on this one.......there are tons of fox everywhere here, but there are even more in rural areas and other country's.

I am thrilled to have this law as it is inhumane to make a wild animal dependent on humans feeding them, and as said previously said when people feed them, they no longer know how to hunt and survive, and as you also said, it throws off the animal food chain drastically.

and, as I said.....what happens when that person moves away, dies, or is no longer well enough to care for them?

those fox will no longer be feed......

they will die of starvation as they have lost their animal instinct to hunt.

You should read Oscars thread way up above about how she cares for foxes. Read it. We all live in different countries..and treat our animals differently..the laws are different. I happen to agree with Oscar as we are going through the same thing with loads of housing going up in the countryside and ALL animals being forced out of their habitat and they end up in our little towns going through trash cans, etc. Just today, we had the animal control out to rescue a possum who was in a trash can...they did take it back to the woods...I asked them where they were taking it. My neighbs had his dog out and we both asked the question....they were obs animal lovers and yes, told us, they would be taking the possum down to the woods.

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Fri May 08, 2009 8:24 pm

daBunnyWendy7;1185621 wrote: If mankind wants God's blessing, mankind must be responsible custodians of plant Earth and the diverse life therein. It's just that simple. Mankind overruns beautiful wildlands,hill and dale, forrest or desert.Life is precious. Who can deny this?:)

that's one of the problems....as the fox were here first......we came in an invaded their turf....as we did with all wildlife...and because of men tearing down forests, fields etc....they no longer have any food....and venture into human territory for food.

-tons of bears and other wild animals are shot every year because of this.

qsducks · Post by **qsducks** » Fri May 08, 2009 8:48 pm

daBunnyWendy7;1185654 wrote: I've got to go soon, too. Kiddos need some affection!!! LOL! We are going out for pizza! I am a good cook but I don't have a brick oven for high temp baking. Pizza just hits the spot every so often. See you tomorrow if I don't hear back tonight. It's 4:16 here now. Late afternoon.

Ducks, I'm so glad you feed wildlife, too. We all owe care and thought to all life which God has seen fit to make us stewards of.

HUGS

when we are at the beach and have lobsters or crabs...we take the shells, etc. right to the ocean and dump it...gone by the morning. And a hugs back to you.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sat May 09, 2009 4:02 am

Odie;1185734 wrote: that's one of the problems....as the fox were here first......we came in an invaded their turf....as we did with all wildlife...and because of men tearing down forests, fields etc....they no longer have any food....and venture into human territory for food.

-tons of bears and other wild animals are shot every year because of this. You have just totally contradicted everything you have said previously. One minute your saying they are wild animals and should be left as such, the next your complaining that man is tearing down forests and they have to venture into towns. I don't think you actually know what you want to say do you?

Ok then, lets go by the post you have just written? Man tears down the forests and builds houses on the fields and homes..... they have no-one to go so they are forced into the nearest town. Since dustbins were replaced with wheelie bins in the Uk, the foxes can't get them open so there's no pickings to be had. What would you rather have?..... People feeding them and helping them or let them starve? Have you ever seen any foxes starved to death because they couldn't get food and no-one would feed them? You might make all the right noises on this forum but i'm beginning to doubt that your a true animal lover. Just incase you never seen a fox brought in starved..... here's a few for you.

kazalala · Post by **kazalala** » Sat May 09, 2009 4:04 am

really, oscar

:(

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sat May 09, 2009 4:14 am

kazalala;1185912 wrote: really, oscar

:( Sorry Kaz, I don't like looking at them myself but it is the harsh reality of what happens when mass building projects replace their habitat and they are forced into towns and if they can't get food and folk are unwilling to put a few scraps out..... that is the result.

As i said much earlier in a post, i lived in a rural area and in ten years they have built 4,000 houses on greenbelt just up the road from my home. Another 12,000 are going up by 2012 and i have been protesting for 3 years with Tory councillors over it. It's not just the wildlife, no extra Doctor Surgerie's or schools are proposed either.

My foxes were forced down into the grounds of the school next door to my house when they took their fields away about 9 years ago. My foxes are fantastically healthy but during the rutting season we had some newbies arrive looking for a mate within my pack and they were in a shocking state. Half starved and we had to treat them for mange. We also get so many killed and injured on the main road they put through where their fields were when they try to get to the land fill site about half a mile from my house.

On the plus side..... work carries on today for my small fox shelter. Most people phone us when one is reported injured in the road or half starved so hopefully within a few weeks, i'll be able to care for some of the worst off. The seriously injured ones will still be treated by National fox rescue and the RSPCA and although my little Oscar Towers will be small, i hope to help some.

kazalala · Post by **kazalala** » Sat May 09, 2009 4:24 am

Oscar, i know how passionate you are about your foxes, and i commend you for what you do with them and how you fight for them, i really do:)

but these shock tactics of showing those gross pics in my opinion i cant see how that is helping your cause or why you think it would,,, not here ,, on this forum,, if you know what i mean. It seems to me you are angry someone seems to disagree with you about this subject and are therefore trying to shame them in to feeling like a big Shyte for daring to disagree. Someone elses opinion may seem silly and wrong to you,,(or indeed it may actually BE silly and wrong) but no matter how passionate you feel and how right you feel you are that does not entitle you to go hell for leather at anyone who disagrees,, its unneccessary in my opinion.

I was reading this thread, but avoiding posting as i felt it was turning into a sort of "take sides" thread

Im not taking sides,, i understand your commitment and like i said earlier commend you for it,, but i also think people are entitled to a point of view

I think your siggy says it all

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sat May 09, 2009 4:33 am

kazalala;1185918 wrote: Oscar, i know how passionate you are about your foxes, and i commend you for what you do with them and how you fight for them, i really do:)

but these shock tactics of showing those gross pics in my opinion i cant see how that is helping your cause or why you think it would,,, not here ,, on this forum,, if you know what i mean. It seems to me you are angry someone seems to disagree with you about this subject and are therefore trying to shame them in to feeling like a big Shyte for daring to disagree. Someone elses opinion may seem silly and wrong to you,,(or indeed it may actually BE silly and wrong) but no matter how passionate you feel and how right you feel you are that does not entitle you to go hell for leather at anyone who disagrees,, its unneccessary in my opinion.

I was reading this thread, but avoiding posting as i felt it was turning into a sort of "take sides" thread

Im not taking sides,, i understand your commitment and like i said earlier commend you for it,, but i also think people are entitled to a point of view

I think your siggy says it all

No problem kaz..... you have an intelligent way of stating your opinion and i respect your opinions. if you read my reply to Minks you will see that i do not take umbrage with anyone who disgarees with me.

What annoys me is complete contradiction of posts and un-imformed twaddle such as the post stating that if you feed foxes..... one day they will turn round and attack you :yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl I think the lady is confused with wolves. I learnt very on on this forum from Spot that if your going to spout..... then at least do some research and get your facts right.

Of course not everyone agrees with foxes. Many see them as vermin and all i try to do is educate people that they are shy harmless creatures just looking to survive as any animal does in the wild.

As i pointed out to Minks.... Canada and England are different countries and the problem we have here is the mass building on greenbelt that's driving them into towns where they are victemised, persecuted, shot, starved and hit by cars. Badgers are also suffering as well as wild deer and smaller creatures.

kazalala · Post by **kazalala** » Sat May 09, 2009 4:40 am

oscar;1185922 wrote: No problem kaz..... you have an intelligent way of stating your opinion and i respect your opinions. if you read my reply to Minks you will see that i do not take umbrage with anyone who disgarees with me.

What annoys me is complete contradiction of posts and un-imformed twaddle such as the post stating that if you feed foxes..... one day they will turn round and attack you :yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl I think the lady is confused with wolves. I learnt very on on this forum from Spot that if your going to spout..... then at least do some research and get your facts right.

of course not everyone agrees with foxes. Many see them as vermin and all i try to do is educate people that they are shy harmless creatures jsut looking to survive as any animal does in the wild.

so not just anyone ,, and yes i can see that you are quite capable of disagreeing or debating without resorting to spitefulness or insults, we have ourselves disagreed on many things after all

:yh_rotfl

certain posts may annoy you , as some do annoy me also believe me:rolleyes:but you do yourself no favours when you respond in that way,, i dont think it gets your message across at all but instead just shows how angry you are ,,

I dont see foxes,, or in fact any animal as vermin, i would suggest carry on trying to educate people Oscar,, but certain ways of speaking are certainly more effective than others im sure you will agree,,, you have to practise now,,, i mean what you gonna do when you are an MP and have to listen to twaddle constantly

:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Sat May 09, 2009 4:48 am

kazalala;1185918 wrote: Oscar, i know how passionate you are about your foxes, and i commend you for what you do with them and how you fight for them, i really do:)

but these shock tactics of showing those gross pics in my opinion i cant see how that is helping your cause or why you think it would,,, not here ,, on this forum,, if you know what i mean. It seems to me you are angry someone seems to disagree with you about this subject and are therefore trying to shame them in to feeling like a big Shyte for daring to disagree. Someone elses opinion may seem silly and wrong to you,,(or indeed it may actually BE silly and wrong) but no matter how passionate you feel and how right you feel you are that does not entitle you to go hell for leather at anyone who disagrees,, its unneccessary in my opinion.

I was reading this thread, but avoiding posting as i felt it was turning into a sort of "take sides" thread

Im not taking sides,, i understand your commitment and like i said earlier commend you for it,, but i also think people are entitled to a point of view

I think your siggy says it all

your so right Kaz, everyone is entitled to their own opinions!

-and without being attacked, nor these shocked graphic photos I have just seen now.

:eek:

..........how despicable!:yh_sick:yh_sick

and I wake up to this on fg?:-5:-5:-5:-5

kazalala · Post by **kazalala** » Sat May 09, 2009 4:53 am

Odie;1185928 wrote: your so right Kaz, everyone is entitled to their own opinions!

-and without being attacked, nor these shocked graphic photos I have just seen now.

:eek:

..........how despicable!:yh_sick:yh_sick

and I wake up to this on fg?:-5:-5:-5:-5

As i said earlier odie ,, im not taking sides here ,,I have to say on the issue of the foxes i am in more agreement with oscar,,, but on the issue of the way people speak to each other i am certainly not in agreement with either of you..

to be honest i wish i had kept my big nose out of it ,, all i was trying to say was ,, have an opinion without trying to make someone else look silly ,, and i think that goes for everyone.

kazalala · Post by **kazalala** » Sat May 09, 2009 4:54 am

Oscar ,, i apologise for taking your thread off topic,,i will be wandering around for a little while longer before i take the dog out ,, trying to mind my own bloody business:o

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Sat May 09, 2009 4:58 am

kazalala;1185932 wrote: As i said earlier odie ,, im not taking sides here ,,I have to say on the issue of the foxes i am in more agreement with oscar,,, but on the issue of the way people speak to each other i am certainly not in agreement with either of you..

to be honest i wish i had kept my big nose out of it ,, all i was trying to say was ,, have an opinion without trying to make someone else look silly ,, and i think that goes for everyone.

never said you were taking sides babe.:-4

as I had said....everyone has the right to their opinion without being attacked.

I have to go now.:-1

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sat May 09, 2009 5:02 am

kazalala;1185923 wrote: so not just anyone ,, and yes i can see that you are quite capable of disagreeing or debating without resorting to spitefulness or insults, we have ourselves disagreed on many things after all

:yh_rotfl

certain posts may annoy you , as some do annoy me also believe me:rolleyes:but you do yourself no favours when you respond in that way,, i dont think it gets your message across at all but instead just shows how angry you are ,,

I dont see foxes,, or in fact any animal as vermin, i would suggest carry on trying to educate people Oscar,, but certain ways of speaking are certainly more effective than others im sure you will agree,,, you have to practise now,,, i mean what you gonna do when you are an MP and have to listen to twaddle constantly

:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl You are a very astute girl kaz and you pick up the passion i feel when i write about abused animals. Please understand that i have spent years scrapping bloodied injured foxes up off the roads resulting from cars hitting them and rampaging through the countryside for years sabotaging hunts. When you have seen what i have seen, you get angry.... very angry. Animals are entirely defenceless, don't ask to be born the wrong breed and be persecuted. What a life they would have if they were cute kittens? I don't mean to beef myself up but it's people like me who do shout and scream that get things done and laws changed. Most tut about it all but do sod all to change things or help them. If people like me didn't scream from the roof tops, we'd have no animal rights at all in this country. People have to get involved and get their hands bloodied and dirtied. When they've done that, they can critise me.

I was critised for feeding my pack of foxes. I said it earlier but to recap.... these foxes were driven down to the school grounds when swathes of their countryside was built on 9 years ago. If i did not feed them, they would be scavaging in peoples bins and possibly residents taking umbrage and hurting them, or they would be forced to cross the main road to get to the land fill site where many of them go at night and get killed. They are not captive as the un-imformed poster also wrote. Very often, not all of them turn up every night as they go off doing other things. There is around 16 of them but on average i will get about 9 each night. Once the cubs are a year old, some tend to go off to find new territory anyway.

Did you know that the fox can not re-produce if they are not of a certain weight? If they are starved or seriously under fed, they can not produce..... another little known fact of foxes.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sat May 09, 2009 5:05 am

kazalala;1185933 wrote: Oscar ,, i apologise for taking your thread off topic,,i will be wandering around for a little while longer before i take the dog out ,, trying to mind my own bloody business:o
Not at all..... I'm glad you contributed

:):)

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sat May 09, 2009 5:11 am

kazalala;1185923 wrote: i mean what you gonna do when you are an MP and have to listen to twaddle constantly

:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl :wah::wah: I've had my share of listening to twaddle over the years at Council meetings, police/residents meetings, local MP's open meetings and they dread me walking in :yh_rotfl especially when it's my turn to speak

I make sure i have my facts and statistics in advance, go prepared and then verbally batter them into submission :yh_rotfl