Cats ........Gotta love 'em

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magentaflame
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Cats ........Gotta love 'em

Post by magentaflame »

I've just watched my cat drinking from a little pond on my front verandah. I have ten gold fish and she often likes to drink from their pond. I've been training them to come to my hand for food. So now whenever someone walks past the pond they follow them. (It tickles peoples pinks.) but now they are coming up to the cat who just wants a drink . She has absolutely no interest in them. This morning I watched her begin to swat the water. I thought UH OH! But what was actually happening was they were annoying her as she was trying to drink. She was swatting them away, so she could drink in peace. It was hilarious. As soon as I can film it I'll put it here.

Has anyone had a pet do something that you thought was one thing just to discover it was something else entirely.
The 'radical' left just wants everyone to have food, shelter, healthcare, education and a living wage. Man that's radical!....ooooohhhh Scary!
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spot
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Re: Cats ........Gotta love 'em

Post by spot »

The cat and the fish were both imported from Eurasia to the continent by European sailors, they are not native species. Both have displaced and damaged local fauna.

If your cat were a local wild animal, derived from a long line of local wild animals with no human interaction, and similarly the fish in your pond, I'd be happy that you'd enjoyed watching them. Think wallaby perhaps, and some form of silvereye. Maybe a platypus nest.
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magentaflame
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Re: Cats ........Gotta love 'em

Post by magentaflame »

spot wrote: Sat Mar 13, 2021 6:33 am The cat and the fish were both imported from Eurasia to the continent by European sailors, they are not native species. Both have displaced and damaged local fauna.

If your cat were a local wild animal, derived from a long line of local wild animals with no human interaction, and similarly the fish in your pond, I'd be happy that you'd enjoyed watching them. Think wallaby perhaps, and some form of silvereye. Maybe a platypus nest.
You don't say?
You're basically not allowed to own any native fauna. But if you can get your hands on a Quokka for me I'd appreciate it. They do say though that we should own Quolls instead of cats. I can't see that happening though.

I've seen a platypus in the wild, and of course wallabies are everywhere.
The 'radical' left just wants everyone to have food, shelter, healthcare, education and a living wage. Man that's radical!....ooooohhhh Scary!
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spot
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Re: Cats ........Gotta love 'em

Post by spot »

I expect part of the point of not owning any native species in Australia is that no native animal was domesticated. Apart from the dingo.

You could own a dingo? It' not really native, it arrived with Indonesian traders 6000 years ago, already domesticated. Some in Australia might now be feral but none are wildlife.

But my point was more that ownership of domesticated animals is unethical, dingo or otherwise, but especially non-working dogs. And cats. And hens and rats and cows and sheep and rabbits and pigs and horses and farmed mink and GMO salmon, obviously. They all harm wildlife.
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magentaflame
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Re: Cats ........Gotta love 'em

Post by magentaflame »

spot wrote: Sun Mar 14, 2021 3:44 am I expect part of the point of not owning any native species in Australia is that no native animal was domesticated. Apart from the dingo.

You could own a dingo? It' not really native, it arrived with Indonesian traders 6000 years ago, already domesticated. Some in Australia might now be feral but none are wildlife.

But my point was more that ownership of domesticated animals is unethical, dingo or otherwise, but especially non-working dogs. And cats. And hens and rats and cows and sheep and rabbits and pigs and horses and farmed mink and GMO salmon, obviously. They all harm wildlife.
A pure dingo cannot be domesticated, and it's not a dog. It's like calling a thylacine a dog, it's not even a wolf. Is the Dingo a native animal? yes it is in it's purist form. Because it is a native of this part of the planet and was isolated from other wolves/dogs etc for so long
We also have to have an understanding of the meaning "domesticated". How we know the meaning of the word in common terms is quite different in scientific terms. They were not tame nor used . Domesticated in the sense of the dingo is that they were a breed of ancient Asian wolf "domesticated" in terms that they used humans for scavenging purposes. Humans provided waste product. The wolves got used to being around humans. If you hung around a human you got fed, but they didn't lose their hunting instinct. (like cats) Domesticated dogs as we know it to be is a tiny breed line of wolf that was capable of interbreeding within it's own line of evolution.

After that conversation about the old film you put up in another thread ( when everyone likened you to a vampire) I was wondering why they used a hyena in the movie and what they were thinking in terms of ancient wolf breeds......so I looked it up. And indeed there was a line of wolf that developed in Europe that looked very similar to the hyena in a certain period of evolution.
To determine the origin and time of arrival to Australia of the dingo, 582 bp of the mtDNA control region were analyzed in 211 Australian dingoes sampled in all states of Australia, 676 dogs from all continents, and 38 Eurasian wolves, and 263 bp were analyzed in 19 pre-European archaeological dog samples from Polynesia. We found that all mtDNA sequences among dingoes were either identical to or differing by a single substitution from a single mtDNA type, A29. This mtDNA type, which was present in >50% of the dingoes, was found also among domestic dogs, but only in dogs from East Asia and Arctic America, whereas 18 of the 19 other types were unique to dingoes. The mean genetic distance to A29 among the dingo mtDNA sequences indicates an origin ≈5,000 years ago. From these results a detailed scenario of the origin and history of the dingo can be derived: dingoes have an origin from domesticated dogs coming from East Asia, possibly in connection with the Austronesian expansion into Island Southeast Asia. They were introduced from a small population of dogs, possibly at a single occasion, and have since lived isolated from other dog populations.
https://www.pnas.org/content/101/33/12387

The 'radical' left just wants everyone to have food, shelter, healthcare, education and a living wage. Man that's radical!....ooooohhhh Scary!
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Re: Cats ........Gotta love 'em

Post by magentaflame »

magentaflame wrote: Thu Mar 18, 2021 6:54 pm
spot wrote: Sun Mar 14, 2021 3:44 am I expect part of the point of not owning any native species in Australia is that no native animal was domesticated. Apart from the dingo.

You could own a dingo? It' not really native, it arrived with Indonesian traders 6000 years ago, already domesticated. Some in Australia might now be feral but none are wildlife.

But my point was more that ownership of domesticated animals is unethical, dingo or otherwise, but especially non-working dogs. And cats. And hens and rats and cows and sheep and rabbits and pigs and horses and farmed mink and GMO salmon, obviously. They all harm wildlife.
A pure dingo cannot be domesticated, and it's not a dog. It's like calling a thylacine a dog, it's not even a wolf. Is the Dingo a native animal? yes it is in it's purist form. Because it is a native of this part of the planet and was isolated from other wolves/dogs etc for so long
We also have to have an understanding of the meaning "domesticated". How we know the meaning of the word in common terms is quite different in scientific terms. They were not tame nor used . Domesticated in the sense of the dingo is that they were a breed of ancient Asian wolf "domesticated" in terms that they used humans for scavenging purposes. Humans provided waste product. The wolves got used to being around humans. If you hung around a human you got fed, but they didn't lose their hunting instinct. (like cats) Domesticated dogs as we know it to be is a tiny breed line of wolf that was capable of interbreeding within it's own line of evolution.

After that conversation about the old film you put up in another thread ( when everyone likened you to a vampire) I was wondering why they used a hyena in the movie and what they were thinking in terms of ancient wolf breeds......so I looked it up. And indeed there was a line of wolf that developed in Europe that looked very similar to the hyena in a certain period of evolution.
To determine the origin and time of arrival to Australia of the dingo, 582 bp of the mtDNA control region were analyzed in 211 Australian dingoes sampled in all states of Australia, 676 dogs from all continents, and 38 Eurasian wolves, and 263 bp were analyzed in 19 pre-European archaeological dog samples from Polynesia. We found that all mtDNA sequences among dingoes were either identical to or differing by a single substitution from a single mtDNA type, A29. This mtDNA type, which was present in >50% of the dingoes, was found also among domestic dogs, but only in dogs from East Asia and Arctic America, whereas 18 of the 19 other types were unique to dingoes. The mean genetic distance to A29 among the dingo mtDNA sequences indicates an origin ≈5,000 years ago. From these results a detailed scenario of the origin and history of the dingo can be derived: dingoes have an origin from domesticated dogs coming from East Asia, possibly in connection with the Austronesian expansion into Island Southeast Asia. They were introduced from a small population of dogs, possibly at a single occasion, and have since lived isolated from other dog populations.
https://www.pnas.org/content/101/33/12387

This is what happens in Australia if you dump your dog in the bush. it breeds with other wild dogs and dingoes....and ends up on this tree in Omeo. I've seen it myself and was quite shocked until I had it explained to me that the wild dog (from domesticated pet dogs) is out of control and this is the only way people will listen . Fair enough I say.


sxsrf=ALeKk03QTy0PpPAMSCGZqhkOHWkegjftHQ:1616119222336&source=univ&tbm=isch&q=omeo+dog+tree&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjltaWhobvvAhXowjgGHY5SCBsQ7Al6BAgEECg&biw=1366&bih=657#imgrc=pGscl6OSp0-9IM
The 'radical' left just wants everyone to have food, shelter, healthcare, education and a living wage. Man that's radical!....ooooohhhh Scary!
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spot
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Re: Cats ........Gotta love 'em

Post by spot »

In terms of native and introduced species we seem to have said pretty much the same thing. There are only two placental mammal groups which predate the first people, those being a couple of groups of bats and a couple of groups of rodents. If any other species uses a placenta then it's introduced, not native - in other words, the first people were in Australia when it wasn't, and then a time happened when it was new.
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Re: Cats ........Gotta love 'em

Post by LarsMac »

Our Cat, Trouble, claims to be quite offended by this thread, which started out talking of Cats, the most royal of Mammals, and deteriorated into a discussion of Dogs and their ilk.

He just wanted me to pass that on.
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Re: Cats ........Gotta love 'em

Post by magentaflame »

LarsMac wrote: Fri Mar 19, 2021 7:24 am Our Cat, Trouble, claims to be quite offended by this thread, which started out talking of Cats, the most royal of Mammals, and deteriorated into a discussion of Dogs and their ilk.

He just wanted me to pass that on.
Noted. cats don't like excuses.

I watched Pets 2 last night. funny as heck. teaching a dog how to be a cat.
Get up on the table swash your tail and arse in the face of the person sitting there.
Walk over the keyboard
Spill coffee onto keyboard.
The 'radical' left just wants everyone to have food, shelter, healthcare, education and a living wage. Man that's radical!....ooooohhhh Scary!

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