Equality?

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FourPart
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Post by FourPart »

I saw this clip on a relation's FaceBook.

It makes you think, and perhaps evaluate how you might react yourself.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/candacelowry/wa ... an-in?bffb
recovering conservative
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Post by recovering conservative »

It's bullshit pure and simple!

The simple fact that men are bigger and stronger and more aggressive than women, makes violence against women the issue that needs to be taken seriously. Sure men sometimes are abused by women, but occasionally man-bites-dog also! This is the reverse racism story dressed up as a gender issue! The difference is that blacks and other racial minorities push back much quicker and with more force against racism than women do against misogyny. That last frame in the piece is pure BS on that part, because it doesn't quantify the scale of violence. Just sayin that the violence that women experience is much greater than that men receive from women, so that claim that "40% of men suffer domestic violence include everything like a guy getting his face slapped.

So, speaking as a strongly pro-feminist older married man, my advice to women is to embrace the term feminism and not run away from it as so many female celebrities and prominent women started to do apparently during the 90's! Learn about these issues, don't date any guy who expresses or sympathizes with these ideas.

My personal study of paleoanthropology reveals that prior to the rise of patriarchal societies 5000 to 6000 years ago, women protected themselves and looked after their interests by working together. This was easy in most hunter/gatherer tribes and later horticultural societies that were matrilocal and matrilineal. But for reasons not completely clear yet, during the times when livestock raising was added, many societies started organizing along patriarchal lines, and men bought daughters from other men to take home as brides, and set up polygamous societies where the women were strangers and often hostile to each other....and it's been downhill ever since then for women, until recent times when the move off the farms and into the cities gave women the chance again to improve their lot in life.

So, the last thing we need today is a bunch of clowns who call themselves ' MRA's, blaming their problems on women, and trying to smudge the signficance of recent highly publicized incidents of misogyny that have been inspired by online clowns who feed their mania that they can't get girlfriends etc. because women are evil.
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AnneBoleyn
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Post by AnneBoleyn »

Extremely impressive post, RC. You've exalted the subject. Kudos.
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Post by recovering conservative »

AnneBoleyn;1456891 wrote: Extremely impressive post, RC. You've exalted the subject. Kudos.


Thank you so much. I'm blushing :yh_blush

I should point out that in the earlier post, I was reminded of how women in matrilocal societies dealt with aggressive and dangerous men by working together - because that's what the women were doing in these brief video clips. I didn't see anything wrong with their actions; on the contrary, they acted in a way to prevent what they believed could turn into a violent attack.

As for the role-reversal scenes...I don't know if I would have laughed, but I would have had a hard time believing that his life or safety were in danger. The only time in recent memory that I recall a situation similar to this, was when I heard a cracking sound, while I was sitting at an outside patio in front of a local bar. It turned out to be an angry young woman who came over and confronted her boyfriend...claiming that he was cheating on her. He didn't react in much of any way to the slap and her loud berating of him. My reaction was one of annoyance. So if it continued on, I would have said something or intervened because she was disturbing the peace.
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Betty Boop
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Post by Betty Boop »

recovering conservative;1456928 wrote:

As for the role-reversal scenes...I don't know if I would have laughed, but I would have had a hard time believing that his life or safety were in danger. The only time in recent memory that I recall a situation similar to this, was when I heard a cracking sound, while I was sitting at an outside patio in front of a local bar. It turned out to be an angry young woman who came over and confronted her boyfriend...claiming that he was cheating on her. He didn't react in much of any way to the slap and her loud berating of him. My reaction was one of annoyance. So if it continued on, I would have said something or intervened because she was disturbing the peace.


Do you really mean to belittle the fact men do actually suffer as victims of domestic violence?

This wasn't the best way to present it admittedly, but it does happen, and guess what, people like you and those in the article just don't take it seriously. With that sort of attitude aimed at the men its no surprise they don't come forward when they find themselves in an abusive relationship.

I'm staggered by the viewpoint that a woman can't do a man the same harm a man can a woman?

Really ??

Male victims can be falsely arrested and removed from their homes because of the assumption that because they are male, they must be a perpetrator and not a victim.

One in Three Campaign - Male Victims of Family Violence

When we think of domestic violence we usually think of female victims and male perpetrators – and that does reflect the majority of cases. The reality, though, is that in recent years more men like David are coming forward as victims of domestic violence and abuse.



Domestic violence happens to men too – and they must talk about it | Ippo Panteloudakis | Comment is free | theguardian.com
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High Threshold
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Post by High Threshold »

recovering conservative;1456885 wrote: ..... Just sayin that the violence that women experience is much greater than that men receive from women .....


Oh, you women! You always miss the heart of the matter. Don't you worry, we men get enough harsh treatment in life from other men: School, job, conscription and being shipped off to Irak or Afghanistan, and shopping for flowers and chocolate to satisfy your sweet tooth.
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High Threshold
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Post by High Threshold »

Betty Boop;1456934 wrote: Do you really mean to belittle the fact men do actually suffer as victims of domestic violence?

This wasn't the best way to present it admittedly, but it does happen, and guess what, people like you and those in the article just don't take it seriously. With that sort of attitude aimed at the men its no surprise they don't come forward when they find themselves in an abusive relationship.

I'm staggered by the viewpoint that a woman can't do a man the same harm a man can a woman?

Really ??




I had an appointment at the doc's last year. Just up the road I witnessed a couple in a terrible arguement because he wanted to go home and she wanted to go shopping. She was the abusive one, he was backing away from her. So she picked up her push-bike and attacked him with it, tossing it over his head. As I checked into the doctor's office (a few moments later) I mentioned the row going on outside. The guy took my ID, checked it and asked me if she was doing the damage or he. "She", I said. "Good for that!", was his reply. I asked him what he meant by that. "Men can hit much harder than women can", he said. I felt like slapping the f-ing idiot.
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Post by recovering conservative »

Betty Boop;1456934 wrote: Do you really mean to belittle the fact men do actually suffer as victims of domestic violence?

This wasn't the best way to present it admittedly, but it does happen, and guess what, people like you and those in the article just don't take it seriously. With that sort of attitude aimed at the men its no surprise they don't come forward when they find themselves in an abusive relationship.

I'm staggered by the viewpoint that a woman can't do a man the same harm a man can a woman?

Really ??

Male victims can be falsely arrested and removed from their homes because of the assumption that because they are male, they must be a perpetrator and not a victim.

One in Three Campaign - Male Victims of Family Violence

When we think of domestic violence we usually think of female victims and male perpetrators – and that does reflect the majority of cases. The reality, though, is that in recent years more men like David are coming forward as victims of domestic violence and abuse.



Domestic violence happens to men too – and they must talk about it | Ippo Panteloudakis | Comment is free | theguardian.com


Like I said before: sometimes Man Bites Dog! But the overpromotion of the MRA stories on men who have been abused by women, are distributed widely to promote the false assumption that men are equally at risk of violence and death at the hands of women as the reverse. The intended strategy of the MRA's is to mock the issue of violence against women, and make it appear less serious than it is. And it needs to be added that the threat of violence to women from both domestic partners and strangers, is more serious as we move down the economic ladder. So, a lot of higher income women who live in nice neighbourhoods, own their own cars, and can easily leave a bad marriage with relative ease, don't have automatic appreciation of the threats faced by women who are struggling on the margins, have to take public transit and work low income jobs where they arrive home at late hours! A woman walking alone late at night is going to be noticed by predators on foot, or in cars on occasion, and it's not an experience that every woman faces, so a lot of women are as clueless on the real dangers as men are!

If women were 200 lbs on average, and men were 100 to 150 on average, I might take the issue of violence against men more seriously than an occasional story or oddity that should not be used to distract and subvert the more important threat of violence.

On a previous post, I was looking for a place...but forgot...to add the issue of whether misogyny is more serious in this day and age of official and legal gender equality, than it was decades ago, because...on a strictly unscientific basis, I feel that younger people are more callous, self-interested and do not follow set codes of conduct that used to be a guide years ago. There was always spousal abuse going on behind closed doors, but I'm coming across comments online that it's okay for a man to hit a woman if she hits him first...that was a prominent theme on a string of Youtube comments on those videos posted earlier. Decades ago, I don't think many guys would have said such a thing out loud because they knew it was not acceptable.

And for further info on MRA material that gets added, the SPLC keeps a page on MRA activities online that qualify as hate groups worth their time to watch and report on: http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/i ... -the-sites

and Men’s Rights Movement Spreads False Claims about Women
Silvio Dante
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Post by Silvio Dante »

Physical, mental and emotional abuse is a two way street and no gender has a monopoly on its delivery...
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High Threshold
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Post by High Threshold »

Silvio Dante;1457577 wrote: Physical, mental and emotional abuse is a two way street and no gender has a monopoly on its delivery...


Particularly the emotional variation.
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High Threshold
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Post by High Threshold »

A popular book in Sweden, back in the 70's was entitled "Män kan inte våldtas", meaning men cannot be raped. I never read it. I couldn't get past the title.
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Post by recovering conservative »

Silvio Dante;1457577 wrote: Physical, mental and emotional abuse is a two way street and no gender has a monopoly on its delivery...
Shifting the goalposts here when you apply the term - monopoly.

No one has said that men are never subject to abuse, but let's get real about whether men or women are most likely to be abused! But, rhetoric on so called "men's rights" sites try to skew the numbers by ignoring the statistics on severity of abuse. Also, these groups try to portray is as a men vs. women issue, when every feminist writer I've ever noticed, wants efforts made to end ALL abuse, regardless of who the victim is. And on that point, what are the so called men's rights activists doing....besides polluting reddit with misogynist screeds! They don't seem to be all that interested in doing anything for abused men.
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Post by Silvio Dante »

Their is a branch of radical feminism that openly hates men and thier collective role in society. The feminazis as I call them. But leaving them aside, abuse comes in many forms and can be delivered with equal force and ferocity by both men and women.



Painting women as victims should the the anthitesis of any Feminist, but some use it as a crutch...
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Post by AnneBoleyn »

Silvio Dante;1457635 wrote: Their is a branch of radical feminism that openly hates men and thier collective role in society. The feminazis as I call them. But leaving them aside, abuse comes in many forms and can be delivered with equal force and ferocity by both men and women.



Painting women as victims should the the anthitesis of any Feminist, but some use it as a crutch...


Quite the misogynist. Feminazis is not your term, but coined by Rush Limbaugh. I have a sense of humor. I think the word is hilarious. Check your paranoia at the door Silvio, no Warror Lesbians are gunning for you, or any other dude. Gee whiz.
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Post by Silvio Dante »

AnneBoleyn;1457637 wrote: Quite the misogynist. Feminazis is not your term, but coined by Rush Limbaugh. I have a sense of humor. I think the word is hilarious. Check your paranoia at the door Silvio, no Warror Lesbians are gunning for you, or any other dude. Gee whiz.


Do you deny the existance of radical Feminists..? By the way they can be men as well as women so I'll accept a retraction of the misogynist slur..:)
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Post by AnneBoleyn »

Silvio Dante;1457639 wrote: Do you deny the existance of radical Feminists..? By the way they can be men as well as women so I'll accept a retraction of the misogynist slur..:)


I'm not sure I understand your definition of 'Radical Feminists' or what difference they, once I find out what you mean, can make in society as a whole. ".....openly hates men and thier collective role in society" So, what's the big deal? Who cares what some feel? What clout would they have? Care to name a few of these people by their actual names?
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Post by recovering conservative »

Silvio Dante;1457635 wrote: Their is a branch of radical feminism that openly hates men and thier collective role in society. The feminazis as I call them.
Any examples of these "feminazis?" As mentioned by Ann Boleyn, this is term apparently created by bloated, overpayed gasbag- Rush Limbaugh, and it is just one more example of conservative blame-shifiting, where conservatives attack and accuse adversaries and detractors for saying and doing things that they are engaging in themselves. If there is one big reason why I abandoned conservativism, it's because of the learned strategy that they all practice today of using base instincts like fear, revenge, jealousy, disgust etc., to drive their agenda. And on so many issues like feminism, rather than own up to the fact that men have been running western societies ever since the first patriarchies started over 5000 years ago, to the detriment of women and men (excluding women from public life has given us a history of successive wars and bloody conquests)...I better finish up this point here because there are just too many things to add....the trend towards urbanization over the past century provided women with the opportunity to work outside the home and petition for their rights and best interests....phew...so, most men are reasonable, and agree that fairness is a laudable goal, but whatever the issue, there is always reactionaries lurking behind the scenes ready to pop out. And, in the 20th century, the conservative reactionaries decided that every step along the way advancing women's interests, was an attack on men's interests! And, let's just say that some of us don't agree with that, and if we've learned about feminism and actually read things by leading feminist educators, we are mostly in agreement with them, and NOT with the latest repackaging of anti-feminism - the "men's rights movement!"

But leaving them aside, abuse comes in many forms and can be delivered with equal force and ferocity by both men and women.

Painting women as victims should the the anthitesis of any Feminist, but some use it as a crutch...
NO IT DOESN'T! And I haven't even bothered looking through my links for the numbers, because I've read enough studies over the years that conclusively show that as the severity of the abuse escalates...ending with murder...the ratio of men vs. women violence numbers rise also. So, I challenge you to find any numbers in any MRA or related issues, that show a near equal ratio of deaths caused by women as men. Any equivalency between the violence caused by men is false equivalency. When it happens, the situations should be treated as exceptions, not the rule! And again, the feminists sure seem to be a lot more supportive of men who are victimized by women than these so called men's rights advocates!

That little factoid is what I found most offensive by a post quoting typical MRA BS about women being responsible for 40% of abuse. These dishonest presentations of the stats are continually churned out on the internet to dull the sensibilities of men to the violence and intimidation that a lot of women have to experience in their everyday lives. If the majority of men refuse to buy this crap, then the tactics of MRA misogynists fail. It's only by separating men from supporting women and gender equality and freedom from violence and intimidation that they win their evil game!

Let's just say that until recent years...aside from reading a few books by feminists...mostly on social science topics, I wasn't really following this issue until the political and then the religious forums I was participating in became polluted by MRA propaganda, and I left them because of the way forum administrators were handling/or refusing to deal with an increasing proliferation of MRA propaganda through the forums.
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Post by Silvio Dante »

AnneBoleyn;1457656 wrote: I'm not sure I understand your definition of 'Radical Feminists' or what difference they, once I find out what you mean, can make in society as a whole. ".....openly hates men and thier collective role in society" So, what's the big deal? Who cares what some feel? What clout would they have? Care to name a few of these people by their actual names?
I can name a few Irish radicals for you but am not sure how relevant they would be for you..?
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Post by Silvio Dante »

recovering conservative;1457661 wrote: Any examples of these "feminazis?" As mentioned by Ann Boleyn, this is term apparently created by bloated, overpayed gasbag- Rush Limbaugh, and it is just one more example of conservative blame-shifiting, where conservatives attack and accuse adversaries and detractors for saying and doing things that they are engaging in themselves. If there is one big reason why I abandoned conservativism, it's because of the learned strategy that they all practice today of using base instincts like fear, revenge, jealousy, disgust etc., to drive their agenda. And on so many issues like feminism, rather than own up to the fact that men have been running western societies ever since the first patriarchies started over 5000 years ago, to the detriment of women and men (excluding women from public life has given us a history of successive wars and bloody conquests)...I better finish up this point here because there are just too many things to add....the trend towards urbanization over the past century provided women with the opportunity to work outside the home and petition for their rights and best interests....phew...so, most men are reasonable, and agree that fairness is a laudable goal, but whatever the issue, there is always reactionaries lurking behind the scenes ready to pop out. And, in the 20th century, the conservative reactionaries decided that every step along the way advancing women's interests, was an attack on men's interests! And, let's just say that some of us don't agree with that, and if we've learned about feminism and actually read things by leading feminist educators, we are mostly in agreement with them, and NOT with the latest repackaging of anti-feminism - the "men's rights movement!"



NO IT DOESN'T! And I haven't even bothered looking through my links for the numbers, because I've read enough studies over the years that conclusively show that as the severity of the abuse escalates...ending with murder...the ratio of men vs. women violence numbers rise also. So, I challenge you to find any numbers in any MRA or related issues, that show a near equal ratio of deaths caused by women as men. Any equivalency between the violence caused by men is false equivalency. When it happens, the situations should be treated as exceptions, not the rule! And again, the feminists sure seem to be a lot more supportive of men who are victimized by women than these so called men's rights advocates!



That little factoid is what I found most offensive by a post quoting typical MRA BS about women being responsible for 40% of abuse. These dishonest presentations of the stats are continually churned out on the internet to dull the sensibilities of men to the violence and intimidation that a lot of women have to experience in their everyday lives. If the majority of men refuse to buy this crap, then the tactics of MRA misogynists fail. It's only by separating men from supporting women and gender equality and freedom from violence and intimidation that they win their evil game!



Let's just say that until recent years...aside from reading a few books by feminists...mostly on social science topics, I wasn't really following this issue until the political and then the religious forums I was participating in became polluted by MRA propaganda, and I left them because of the way forum administrators were handling/or refusing to deal with an increasing proliferation of MRA propaganda through the forums.




You have a Pollyanna view of women. Quite realistic aswell.



Women, like men are capable of the most reprehensible abuse and most caring love.



They are human beings just like men and are just as flawed.



We are all unique individuals and are all given the choice to be abusive or not.



Femenists groups will happily blame 'male dominated' culture for the ills of the world.



Some will even advocate for kiling unborn babies, disguised as being an issue of 'choice'.



Radical feminists can be men as much as women...
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Post by Silvio Dante »

Mens Rights organisations have been targetted by violent Femenazi groups. See below just one example.:



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Post by AnneBoleyn »

Silvio Dante;1457672 wrote: I can name a few Irish radicals for you but am not sure how relevant they would be for you..?


They are not relevant for me, but I would find them interesting. Also, Silvio, "a few"---that's what's irrelevant. You'll find "a few" of anything anywhere on earth & they usually make no difference.
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Post by AnneBoleyn »

Silvio Dante;1457677 wrote: Mens Rights organisations have been targetted by violent Femenazi groups. See below just one example.:






What a totally ridiculous asinine tape that is. "Violent Feminazis" indeed. You know what Silvio? Grow a pair & grow up too.
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Post by AnneBoleyn »

Silvio Dante;1457673 wrote: You have a Pollyanna view of women. Quite realistic aswell.

Women, like men are capable of the most reprehensible abuse and most caring love.

They are human beings just like men and are just as flawed.

We are all unique individuals and are all given the choice to be abusive or not.

Femenists groups will happily blame 'male dominated' culture for the ills of the world.

Some will even advocate for kiling unborn babies, disguised as being an issue of 'choice'.

Radical feminists can be men as much as women...


Ok, ok. Now I see where you are coming from. You're not worth my time. Prattle on.
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Post by Silvio Dante »

AnneBoleyn;1457691 wrote: They are not relevant for me, but I would find them interesting. Also, Silvio, "a few"---that's what's irrelevant. You'll find "a few" of anything anywhere on earth & they usually make no difference.
Ailbhe Smith, Nell McCafferty, Ivana Bacik, Clare Daly. Give them a google...
Silvio Dante
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Post by Silvio Dante »

AnneBoleyn;1457692 wrote: What a totally ridiculous asinine tape that is. "Violent Feminazis" indeed. You know what Silvio? Grow a pair & grow up too.
Nice...:)
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Post by AnneBoleyn »

Silvio Dante;1457695 wrote: Ailbhe Smith, Nell McCafferty, Ivana Bacik, Clare Daly. Give them a google...


SD: Some will even advocate for kiling unborn babies, disguised as being an issue of 'choice'.

Ok, ok. Now I see where you are coming from. You're not worth my time. Prattle on.
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Post by Silvio Dante »

AnneBoleyn;1457694 wrote: Ok, ok. Now I see where you are coming from. You're not worth my time. Prattle on.


Many Feminists advocate for the abortion industry. An inconvenient truth..?
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Post by AnneBoleyn »

Silvio Dante;1457698 wrote: Many Feminists advocate for the abortion industry. An inconvenient truth..?


You are Stupid.
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Post by Silvio Dante »

AnneBoleyn;1457699 wrote: You are Stupid.
Is that the best you can do? Hurl one line insults..?
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Post by AnneBoleyn »

Silvio Dante;1457701 wrote: Is that the best you can do? Hurl one line insults..?


You are stupid. You are not worth my time. On this subject I find you unworthy. On this subject I will not be speaking with you again. I do not argue abortion. No apologies, no excuses necessary. Now bugger off.
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Post by Betty Boop »

Personal insults?? Say nothing or discuss the issue please.
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Post by AnneBoleyn »

Betty Boop;1457703 wrote: Personal insults?? Say nothing or discuss the issue please.


Yes, his remarks on women & their rights to choose are insulting. I agree. Calling women nazi's are personal insults, I agree again. That's why, on this subject at least, he has proven himself to be unworthy of my valuable time & intelligence. Thank you.
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Post by Betty Boop »

AnneBoleyn;1457705 wrote: Yes, his remarks on women & their rights to choose are insulting. I agree. Calling women nazi's are personal insults, I agree again. That's why, on this subject at least, he has proven himself to be unworthy of my valuable time & intelligence. Thank you.


Sorry, no way Anne and you know it. You have insulted him personally. He has not insulted you personally.
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Post by Silvio Dante »

Betty Boop;1457703 wrote: Personal insults?? Say nothing or discuss the issue please.


Thank you...
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Post by AnneBoleyn »

Betty Boop;1457707 wrote: Sorry, no way Anne and you know it. You have insulted him personally. He has not insulted you personally.


Don't tell me what *I* *know* Betty, but feel free to tell me what you think. I have already said what I had to say to said individual, including my future lack of interest in this mentality. If you feel this outlook is beneficial for discussion, by all means, why don't you have a go?
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Post by FourPart »

Calm down everybody, please. This was never intended to be a shouting match.

In all walks of life you will find those who have extreme viewpoints one way or the other, and they have a personal right to their opinions, but rather than turn to insults, they should be discussed.

I don't deny that the vast majority of abuse crimes are Male to Female orientated - anyone who doesn't would be kidding themselves, but there is also a sizable proportion of Female to Male violence, and as the video I started this thread with demonstrates, public attitudes to the two are poles apart.

Although the records of prosecutions for Female to Male violence may only show about 3:1 of Male to Female, there are many more that are not reported, either due to a fear of ridicule to their masculinity, or that they simply wouldn't be believed.

I am in no way trying to excuse these actions be they Male to Female or Female to Male - far from it. My point is that I find it shocking how Society's attitudes can be so different. As the video shows - one is obviously not acceptable - the other is looked on as comical entertainment, when the same offence should be viewed in the same way, regardless of whether it be Male or Female, with neither being socially acceptable.

As for Feminazis, with the vehement Women's Rights Groups. We all know that they do exist, and often have some very good points, but there are all too many of these who make a stand of outright hatred against the Male gender altogether. However, this does NOT mean that all Women's groups are like this. Far from it. The same can be said for Men's groups. The problem is that, as with everything in life, it's always the extremists that attract the attention of the public eye, leading to general stereotyping. For example, I am in favour of abortion , when there is an acceptable reason, but on the other hand I am totally opposed to the other extreme of the right to use abortion as a form of Birth Control. The point is (the rights of the woman's body aside for a moment), that it is seen as one thing if the woman decides to have an abortion against the wishes of the Father, but a totally different matter if the Father wishes the woman to have an abortion against her wishes. One is a cause to be supported - the other is not.

However, I don't intend to get into a argument here on the pros & cons of abortion - that should be for another thread. I simply have my opinion about the matter, and I accept that others have theirs. The subject here is that regardless of the supposedly enlightened world of Sexual Liberation & Overall Equality, in reality, things are far from equal and, quite frankly, I doubt if they ever will be.
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Betty Boop
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Post by Betty Boop »

AnneBoleyn;1457719 wrote: Don't tell me what *I* *know* Betty, but feel free to tell me what you think. I have already said what I had to say to said individual, including my future lack of interest in this mentality. If you feel this outlook is beneficial for discussion, by all means, why don't you have a go?


I know you called a member stupid twice, you then declared the member is unworthy and then you told them to bugger off! That's pretty personal and uncivil.

The rules as you well know are

1.0 Be Civil. If there was just one rule, this would be it. ForumGarden is not here to be your personal battlefield. The Golden Rule applies. People who embark on personal attacks or are unable to comment on the CONTENT but instead go after the poster are not welcome. ForumGarden is a place where friends gather. If you are unable to cope with a friendly and supportive atmosphere, then please leave. Friendliness counts and it will determine whether or not you have an account here. Draconian rules? If you are a non-civil trouble-maker, I'm sure you'll think so! For all other friends, welcome!



You chose to direct personal comments at a member, I chose to step in as mod and request for it stop to prevent infractions having to given.
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High Threshold
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Post by High Threshold »

"What is hateful to thee, do not unto thy fellow man: this is the whole Law; the rest is mere commentary"

Hillel
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Post by recovering conservative »

Silvio Dante;1457673 wrote: You have a Pollyanna view of women. Quite realistic aswell.



Women, like men are capable of the most reprehensible abuse and most caring love.



They are human beings just like men and are just as flawed.



We are all unique individuals and are all given the choice to be abusive or not.



Femenists groups will happily blame 'male dominated' culture for the ills of the world.



Some will even advocate for kiling unborn babies, disguised as being an issue of 'choice'.



Radical feminists can be men as much as women...


I don't think I'm being Pollyanish about it, but I do believe in erring on the side of the group with less power on average. Same rule applies to race, gay issues, or any outside group. In America, even moreso than Canada, the average white male is being taught to view any and every other interest group as a threat taking away his rights.

Even feminists divide somewhat on how to handle the abortion issue; but they are in unanimous agreement that they don't want to be forced against their will to carry pregnancies to term and pop out more babies! The extreme conservative misogynists in the U.S. have passed state laws in recent times that are taking away ALL options to end pregnancy...including incidents of rape or endangering the pregnant woman's life. And they are even adopting the Catholic line on "life beginning at conception" meaning that all forms of birth control are abortifacients.

But, I've talked about the legacy of patriarchy a number of times already, and don't really want to retread it again here. But, human behaviour is a product of genetic and learned adaptations. Trying to separate out what behaviours are adaptive from those that are supposedly natural is impossible. I'll just say that if you really have a problem with feminism, you have a problem with not having control of women. In the long run, giving up that control would be in everyone's best interests.
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Post by recovering conservative »

Betty Boop;1457707 wrote: Sorry, no way Anne and you know it. You have insulted him personally. He has not insulted you personally.


It may not be a personal insult, but should the term "feminazi" be allowed? If so, does that mean saying n***** is allowed also when race issues are discussed?
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Saint_
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Post by Saint_ »

recovering conservative;1457768 wrote: It may not be a personal insult, but should the term "feminazi" be allowed? If so, does that mean saying n***** is allowed also when race issues are discussed?


I don't think either one of those is necessary, and both seem inflammatory. I'll get over it, though. Just don't call me a "cracker."
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Betty Boop
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Post by Betty Boop »

recovering conservative;1457768 wrote: It may not be a personal insult, but should the term "feminazi" be allowed? If so, does that mean saying n***** is allowed also when race issues are discussed?


It is a word used in discussions relating to feminism at the moment. If you don't like the word debate why not here and see what the member that used the word has to say about it also.
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Post by recovering conservative »

Betty Boop;1457770 wrote: It is a word used in discussions relating to feminism at the moment. If you don't like the word debate why not here and see what the member that used the word has to say about it also.
I have, and the poster didn't really follow up on the issue.

As I explained previously, it is only in use because of Rush Limbaugh, and designed to label feminists as extremists, rather than groups seeking equal rights. There are other words, as noted by Saint, which can be used, rather than that sort of inflammatory term.
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AnneBoleyn
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Post by AnneBoleyn »

recovering conservative;1457773 wrote: I have, and the poster didn't really follow up on the issue.

As I explained previously, it is only in use because of Rush Limbaugh, and designed to label feminists as extremists, rather than groups seeking equal rights. There are other words, as noted by Saint, which can be used, rather than that sort of inflammatory term.


I guess "Pollyanna" isn't seen as insulting: "Pol·ly·an·na [pol-ee-an-uh]

noun

1.

an excessively or blindly optimistic person.

adjective

2.

( often lowercase ) . Also, Pol·ly·an·na·ish. unreasonably or illogically optimistic"

Dictionary.com - Free Online English Dictionary

Are you blonde R.C.? If so, there might have been even more charming things to call you besides blind (to Truth) & unreasonable & Illogical. Sniff. Typical woman, needs to be lead.

The poster didn't follow up because..............well, on matters such as these shunning is my best option. Not worth my precious throat chakra.
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AnneBoleyn
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Post by AnneBoleyn »

Quote Originally Posted by recovering conservative

"It may not be a personal insult, but should the term "feminazi" be allowed? If so, does that mean saying n***** is allowed also when race issues are discussed?"

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BB: "It is a word used in discussions relating to feminism at the moment. If you don't like the word debate why not here and see what the member that used the word has to say about it also."

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

At the moment. Hmmmmm. & you ducked the question "what about race?" Anything goes? What about being Gay or Transgender? Anything goes as well? Just calling for a clear definition. And yes, Betty, I know I shouldn't have used the "S" word, but this is about R.C.'s question, not my questionable choice of adjective.
Silvio Dante
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Post by Silvio Dante »

recovering conservative;1457768 wrote: It may not be a personal insult, but should the term "feminazi" be allowed? If so, does that mean saying n***** is allowed also when race issues are discussed?






We agree to differ, maybe we should accept this and move on...
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Bryn Mawr
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Post by Bryn Mawr »

AnneBoleyn;1457719 wrote: Don't tell me what *I* *know* Betty, but feel free to tell me what you think. I have already said what I had to say to said individual, including my future lack of interest in this mentality. If you feel this outlook is beneficial for discussion, by all means, why don't you have a go?


OK, I'll tell you what I think.

I think you descended into personal insult when you decided you did not want to discuss the subject.

By all means refuse to discuss abortion, no one forces you to - that does not excuse you for insulting the guy on your way out of the door.
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High Threshold
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Post by High Threshold »

Saint_;1457769 wrote: I don't think either one of those is necessary, and both seem inflammatory. I'll get over it, though. Just don't call me a "cracker."


I am in total agreement - but what is a "cracker"?
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FourPart
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Post by FourPart »

High Threshold;1457824 wrote: I am in total agreement - but what is a "cracker"?
It's either one of those paper things placed on the table at Christmas, containing silly jokes, a silly paper hat, and a crappy toy. Or can can refer to a pun, of the type to be found within (i.e. "It's a cracker" - with the Irish accent, of course). Or it's a biscuit intended to be eaten with such snacks as cheese (mmmm... cheeese).
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High Threshold
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Post by High Threshold »

FourPart;1457825 wrote: It's either one of those paper things placed on the table at Christmas, containing silly jokes, a silly paper hat, and a crappy toy. Or can can refer to a pun, of the type to be found within (i.e. "It's a cracker" - with the Irish accent, of course). Or it's a biscuit intended to be eaten with such snacks as cheese (mmmm... cheeese).


Brie? :)

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