Animals in Lebanon

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valerie
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Post by valerie »

Thanks for posting that, I'm going to pass it on, see what we can do...
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LilacDragon
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Post by LilacDragon »

Has anyone checked this place out at all.

DH was just in the Middle East, my Dr. is from Afganistan and my dentist is from the Middle East also. DH tells me that pet dogs and cats are almost unheard of and both my doctor and my dentist do not understand the obsession we with pets. Neither of them would ever have a dog in their home.

While I don't doubt that animals are suffering in any war torn area, please make sure you check things out well before sending someone your money.
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spot
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Post by spot »

One might think that the surviving relatives of the 16,500 dead cows in California this week would be as deserving of any measure of assistance that's available from local charities. I agree that any animals left in Southern Lebanon who were previously cared for by the now-absent half million previous residents will be dying in droves, but they'll not be dogs or cats so much as cattle and goats. Cattle and goats don't really fit into convoys of the dispossessed.

Why are cows dying in California anyway, if everything else there is lying on a beach enhancing its tan?
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chonsigirl
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Post by chonsigirl »

Because of the heat wave, dear spot. It had record breaking temperatures-up in the 110s-and the cattle died from the heat. One hundred people so far have died from it.
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Post by spot »

chonsigirl wrote: Because of the heat wave, dear spot. It had record breaking temperatures-up in the 110s-and the cattle died from the heat. One hundred people so far have died from it.
But those are the astoundingly aged folk who believe the TV anchors who say keeping windows locked is the only way to stay alive in these dangerous times, I thought.

Why are cows dying when everything else outdoors isn't?
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BabyRider
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Post by BabyRider »

spot wrote:

Why are cows dying when everything else outdoors isn't?

While I don't know for sure what's happening out there, Spot, I'm sure it's more than just cows. I'd wager horses, and even dogs are dropping from this heat. Without proper protection from the direct sun, it doesn't surprise me a bit that these animals are keeling over dead.
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valerie
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Post by valerie »

So far it's being reported that most of the human deaths are due to

power failures. There are many "cooling centers" being set up to try

and help. And the number just reported is 139 now.



It's mainly dairy cattle that are dying, the big farms in the central

valley are having drop offs in milk production, too. The valley normally

has heat, yes, but this had been unrelenting for quite some time...

I just heard on the news that Sacramento broke a 100-something year

old record... 11 days with triple digit heat. Dairy cows just cannot

withstand it, giving milk takes a very large toll on them in heat

like that. Some ranches have large scale misters, and those do

help some.



So far, BR, not any reports of other animals dying. (Not to say there

haven't been any, of course).
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Post by spot »

But your average gopher or prairie oyster or gecko or Californian Wallaby is just sat watching the world go by without a care? Maybe the cows are out of their natural habitat, that might be it.
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Post by chonsigirl »

I just looked, it is 139 human deaths as of right now.

About the cattle:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/archive/2006/07/25/financial/f162517D55.DTL

I am sure other stories will emerge as time goes on, the temperatures are only now going down-and just a little. All living beings-animal and human-suffer when the heat is that high.
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Post by BabyRider »

spot wrote: But your average gopher or prairie oyster or gecko or Californian Wallaby is just sat watching the world go by without a care? Maybe the cows are out of their natural habitat, that might be it.

Prarie oyster??? WTF is a prarie oyster?? :confused: Are you funnin' with us, Spot??
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Post by chonsigirl »

Between the fires and the heat, I am sure many of the animals that live there have suffered greatly. The fires alone would have killed or harmed the natural wildlife population, and destroyed their areas of habitation.
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Post by spot »

valerie wrote: So far it's being reported that most of the human deaths are due to

power failures.
I had to recall where I'd seen it:"Fresno County coroner Loralee Cervantes said her staff were trying to investigate at least 22 possible heat-related deaths [...] It's never been like this in my years here. This is really tragic," said Ms Cervantes. Many of the dead were elderly who often were too afraid to leave their windows open, she said.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/5223172.stm
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valerie
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Post by valerie »

BabyRider wrote: Prarie oyster??? WTF is a prarie oyster?? :confused: Are you funnin' with us, Spot??



I dunno but somehow I'm not laughin'...



Pm'ing you with the prarie oyster def...
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Post by spot »

BabyRider wrote: Prarie oyster??? WTF is a prarie oyster?? :confused: Are you funnin' with us, Spot??
Well... no, not as such - I think I was trying to imply that I have very little idea of what the Californian Outback might be expected to support, in terms of wildlife.
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Post by chonsigirl »

You sometimes keep the windows shut, to keep it cooler inside-they have that story also on MSNBC.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14073968/
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Post by spot »

valerie wrote: I dunno but somehow I'm not laughin'...



Pm'ing you with the prarie oyster def...
Good lord... pedants... http://www.edu.gov.mb.ca/ks4/tech/imym/resources/pt_photos/186.jpg

I mis-remembered a word !
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Post by chonsigirl »

Here you go spot...............

http://www.dfg.ca.gov/whdab/html/cawildlife.html

You can look at the list to see the numerous species of animals there, and detailed reports on them.
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Post by spot »

SnoozeControl wrote: Spot, what exactly do you find humorous in this situation? Does death amuse you?
Not at all - it's the curious juxtaposition of a charitable appeal for rather unlikely displaced dogs in a primarily arab nation on the one hand, and landfill-quantities of hothoused milk monsters bred for nothing but a life of toil on the other. I know where my sympathies lie more.

it was not I who raised the question of the elderly dying - I merely mentioned that coroner's comment of their fear of opening windows despite the heat.
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Post by spot »

SnoozeControl wrote: There are many things we should feel charitable about, however your smug comments about the entire world situation doesn't help anyone.

What exactly do YOU suggest?
Me? I think I'd rather be shipping emergency shelter to the half million villagers who permanently lost their homes this month. I'd rather be holding the butcher politicians responsible for their ethnic displacement policy. I'd rather be sending in an investigative reporter to ask the refugees how many of them had actually been pet-owners, and to see what proportion of pet-charity-aid goes directly to whatever abandoned pets really exist in the Lebanon. The whole story reeks of opportunist nest-feathering at the expense of genuine victims of the events.
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Post by OpenMind »

SnoozeControl wrote: There are many things we should feel charitable about, however your smug comments about the entire world situation doesn't help anyone.



What exactly do YOU suggest?



Snooze, I am going to stand up for Spot here.

I, as do a few others, have had the benefit of meeting Spot face to face. I can assure you there is no one more mild-mannered as Spot. He hasn't a spiteful bone in his body.

He talks in exactly the same turn of phrase as he writes. But he is not being smug. It is the way he talks and writes, both with the same turn of phrase. In the written form, it can appear harsh and cold because Spot applies logic the way it should be, even as I was taught when I began University. I can assure you that it is not his intent to be smug.

Spot's style of speech used to raise my hackles at first until I realised that I was responding to his posts emotively.

Hope that helps.
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Post by spot »

chonsigirl wrote: I just looked, it is 139 human deaths as of right now.
I've no idea whether http://www.usatoday.com/weather/news/2003-09-25-france-heat_x.htm was much publicised in the US at the time but, to put the Californian figure into a World context, the 2003 mainly-elderly heat-related death toll in France "reached nearly 15,000, according to a government-commissioned report released Thursday". The French were said to have saved a fortune in health and pension costs as a result. They claimed it was an unforseeable tragedy.
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Post by spot »

SnoozeControl wrote: I hope that explains my thought...
If you check the accounts at http://beta.beirut.com/viewNew.php?ID=212# you'll find that their providing of shelter space for 100 dogs and 57 cats was running at over $100,000 a year - I think that's what I had in mind in terms of "nest-feathering". As for opportunistic... if you get headlines like this month's, and you're in the charity trade, you milk the punters for all you can. The American Red Cross was recently hammered for bolstering its general fund with New-York-specific donations over recent years.

Any Beirut charity appealing for funds to alleviate distress among the local human jetsam would fall foul of recent anti-terrorist-funding legislation and put the US fundraisers under an intensive and dangerous spotlight. Pet-aid is immune to such considerations, it would seem. Who'd be human in the Lebanon at the moment?
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OpenMind
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Post by OpenMind »

SnoozeControl wrote: I just sent this via PM to BR...







I hope that explains my thought...



Exactly, Snooze. You are responding emotively. Spot hasn't actually said that they should not be helped, just that no one's raising the issue for other animals closer to home and that perhaps we should be giving them all the spotlight.

I personally have a lot more feelings for animals than I do most humans. So, in the sense that Spot is highlighting the plight of other animals, I agree.

After submitting this, I am going to go over Spot's posts to check that I am right in believing that he did not say that the animals in Lebanon don't need help. If I am wrong, I will, of course, apologise.
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Post by chonsigirl »

spot wrote: I've no idea whether http://www.usatoday.com/weather/news/2003-09-25-france-heat_x.htm was much publicised in the US at the time but, to put the Californian figure into a World context, the 2003 mainly-elderly heat-related death toll in France "reached nearly 15,000, according to a government-commissioned report released Thursday". The French were said to have saved a fortune in health and pension costs as a result. They claimed it was an unforseeable tragedy.

Yes, it was publicized in the news here, spot. It was carried alot as I remember it.

But then, it is top story in our nation right now, because it concerns a specific state and the heat wave is ongoing.

Snooze is an advocate for animals and those in distress, and that is a very positive aspect about her. She feels for the animals deeply.

OM, I thank you very much for your comments on spot and your testimonial to his good heart. I too perceive him in that way also.

*back on topic*
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Post by OpenMind »

Not at all - it's the curious juxtaposition of a charitable appeal for rather unlikely displaced dogs in a primarily arab nation on the one hand, and landfill-quantities of hothoused milk monsters bred for nothing but a life of toil on the other. I know where my sympathies lie more.




Snooze. This is the closest I can find and it still doesn't even imply that Lebanon's animals should not be helped.

Spot is merely saying in many words in his various posts on this thread that he does not trust the underlying motives of the charity, especially if, as he says, these folk do not keep pets. Particularly given that funds are needed to buy ammunition.

The charity you have cited probably is itself a decent enough charity. But these charities are as subject to cons as we are.
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Post by OpenMind »

SnoozeControl wrote: Please allow me to reiterate... I have complete faith in "Best Friends"



If anyone would like to contribute, please do so.



I think I'm showing a LOT of patience here... If you disagree with my choice of animal charity, then I suggest you phuck off. Thanks very much and have a good day.



Did you read
Open Mind wrote: The charity you have cited probably is itself a decent enough charity. But these charities are as subject to cons as we are.



And no, I won't phuck off because I am not disagreeing with you.
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Post by chonsigirl »

Thank you for that link, snooze-the first dog and cat shelter!
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Post by OpenMind »

SnoozeControl wrote: http://animals.beirut.com/



Thank you for the link, Snooze. I am sorry if I have upset you.

My Mum worked for a well known charity when I was young, which still exists today, and it was she who warned me not to take things at face value because of her experiences.

I have come to meet other people who have or do work for well known charities, and they more or less corroborated my Mum's story (without any prompting from me).

I know you love animals. I don't want to upset you. It is good to know that people are taking care of the animals in Lebanon at great risk to themselves. Animals are defenceless against the human race, and they are usually the last to be thought of in times of strife.
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Post by spot »

SnoozeControl wrote: I think I'm showing a LOT of patience here... If you disagree with my choice of animal charity, then I suggest you phuck off. Thanks very much and have a good day.
I did show you the numbers from their own website, Snooze. Do you honestly think they're value for money, either in the context of a small country with a million fellow-citizen refugees to deal with or even in the context of any other country anywhere?

The suggestion that charities hang crisis pictures from current disasters in front of their collecting bags, and then spend the money wherever they feel more pressed for cash themselves, is described at http://www.commondreams.org/headlines01/1029-05.htm (headed "$200 million goes to other Red Cross programs" in which "of the $530 million (U.S.) total donated, more than $200 million is being diverted to the blood agency's long-term goals and administrative costs".
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Post by spot »

SnoozeControl wrote: There are honorable people out there trying to help animals in distress and rather than check out the validity of this organization, some members here decided to crap on the idea.
You're being slightly silly, snooze, in that the whole thread's public and everyone can see what's been said.

I suggested that a turnover of more than $100,000 in their own published accounts was more than I'd have expected of a shelter with such limited capacity sited in the Middle East.

I suggested that pets are ethically no more deserving than farm animals but that they do tend to get more attention.

I suggested that war zones are more publicity-oriented than Californian cowsheds.

I suggested that photo-opportunities are grasped with both hands by charities, and that the money often goes to other sectors of their work than the pictures might suggest.

I provided URLs supporting all my points which were informational rather than opinionated.

Just to really drag my name into the mire,. I regard professional charity fundraisers on a par with ambulance-chasing funeral home scouts. I'd rather entrust my soul with Satan knowing what he was going to do with it than allow myself to be conned by someone who knows perfectly well what he's not telling you while feeding you the gloss.

I don't, it goes without saying, regard you as a professional charity fundraiser.
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Post by spot »

In that case, snooze, the ideal answer for all of us would be for you to address each of my points, since they're very relevant to your original post!
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