Shelf life of racism.

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Mickiel
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Post by Mickiel »

why racism never dies? It has existed ever since man. Sometimes I don't get it, this thing in man.
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Post by FourPart »

Theoretically, because of the ease of international travel, in time everyone should end up as a single race due to interbreeding. The only thing stopping this, however, would be Racism itself, and the refusal to integrate.
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Post by AnneBoleyn »

Mickiel;1521833 wrote: why racism never dies? It has existed ever since man. Sometimes I don't get it, this thing in man.


It's based on fear and tribalism. If you are different, you must be an enemy. You must want to do me harm. You are right Mickiel, it has very primitive roots.
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Post by tude dog »

Mickiel;1521833 wrote: why racism never dies? It has existed ever since man. Sometimes I don't get it, this thing in man.


I had the great privilege(?) of attending racially integrated schools. Blacks, Whites, and Mexican-Americans all joined together. Just lovely.

Not everybody got to experience this, actually went to schools with their neighbors who happen to be of the same race. Attending a school with children of your same race offended self-appointed do-gooders who insisted to buss kids many miles away to experience dealing with people of other races. That is especially confusing when adults segregate themselves.

I am not a cop or a social do-gooder so I am free to profile anybody based on all the protected/special classes of people. If that were the only thing involved, that would be stupid.

Speech, dress, attitude, etc and whatever.

It is a survival thing. I am ready to forget the first impression of any individual, be it good or bad.
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Post by LarsMac »

The simple inherent reaction when we meet someone who is different from ourselves goes back far before the Human species came along. But the the actual reaction many humans have to others of different skin tone or culture has been cultivated and groomed over the centuries. Societies have fed the reaction and used it to keep members in line.

When I was a kid, we lived in a low-income housing complex in Alexandria area for a while. all sorts of kids of all colors and and shapes and sizes were there.

Then Dad got a job in California, and we moved there. We lived in West Covina, and the kids were all sorts and colors again. My first two years of school were there.

THEN we moved to The South, and I began to learn about Racism and Segregation. The local kids seemed fully indoctrinated in the system, by then. I and a few others never really fit in.
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Post by Mickiel »

AnneBoleyn;1521837 wrote: It's based on fear and tribalism. If you are different, you must be an enemy. You must want to do me harm. You are right Mickiel, it has very primitive roots.+


I think it explains why some of our behavior is so primitive.
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Post by Mickiel »

I think we just need help when it comes to racism, what kind of help differs. I know I need help in trying to understand racism and "why" I am racist.

As some have shown the only thing that has helped me a lot is exposure to other races.
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Post by Bryn Mawr »

Mickiel;1521855 wrote: I think we just need help when it comes to racism, what kind of help differs. I know I need help in trying to understand racism and "why" I am racist.

As some have shown the only thing that has helped me a lot is exposure to other races.


The first essential is recognising it in yourself and admitting it to be true, from that point on improvements can be made :-6
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Post by Ahso! »

Bryn Mawr;1521856 wrote: The first essential is recognising it in yourself and admitting it to be true, from that point on improvements can be made :-6Always positive! It's what I respect most about you!

I'll say that racism is a myth, an invented illusion, and as said by LM, cultivated and nurtured thru cultural grooming. Skin color is pigmentation relative to an environment.

You might ask why the pigmentation persists generationally, and the answer is that that is due to the choice of reproductive partners and dominant genes. It's really that simple to me.

I used to think I was racist, but then I got over myself.
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Post by Mickiel »

Bryn Mawr;1521856 wrote: The first essential is recognising it in yourself and admitting it to be true, from that point on improvements can be made :-6


I agree, self realization is being self aware and in dealing with racism that step needs to be made and maintained. Because racism is a constant once it gets inside. Its shelf life is long because it hides itself and is deceptive in its host. Racism lies to its host and pacifies to stay in place. It lives in illusion. If it's not severed at its roots it just keeps growing.
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Post by Bryn Mawr »

Mickiel;1521866 wrote: I agree, self realization is being self aware and in dealing with racism that step needs to be made and maintained. Because racism is a constant once it gets inside. Its shelf life is long because it hides itself and is deceptive in its host. Racism lies to its host and pacifies to stay in place. It lives in illusion. If it's not severed at its roots it just keeps growing.


Many people get to be very good at lying to themselves :-(
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Post by Mickiel »

Bryn Mawr;1521870 wrote: Many people get to be very good at lying to themselves :-(


Yes and fooling ourselves is a main ingredient in just living our lives. Its one of the main reasons deception has a shelf life. We can be deceived about almost anything for any amount of time. We can be blinded: fooled or mislead in our conscious thinking or beliefs. And not even know it.
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Post by gmc »

Fear of the other has been there since man began. prejudice based on the belief that one's tribe or people or religion is superior is different from racism based on the belief that ones race based on colour of skin the latter is relatively new you can almost trace the development of it as christian and muslim worked out a way to justify the slavery of fellow muslims or christians. In the ancient world all men were conisidered equally capable-of becoming slaves; but with the conversion of the people of northerni Europe to Christianity the custom of enslaving prisoners of war gradually ceased as between Christian nations, though between Clhristians and Mohamnmedans the practice continued. To justify the continued usew of slaves the africans bacame the children of ham cursed for all eternity. economics and religion are a frightening bedfellows.

If you look at early christian saints a surprising number were black the most noticeable st augusrus of hippo and st maurice (after whom st moritz takes it's name). Anti-semitism is also a religious construction they got the blame for killing jesus to the muslim they are the people of the book.

Racism like all prejudice is irrational.
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Post by FourPart »

As most bad things, Racism generally has its roots in Religion. Throughout the world you will find that the most integrated societies are also the least Religious.
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Post by Mickiel »

FourPart;1521897 wrote: As most bad things, Racism generally has its roots in Religion. Throughout the world you will find that the most integrated societies are also the least Religious.
Oh I disagree with this so much , your just pinning the tag on your donkey religion. Racism existed before religion existed. The origin of racism has absolutely nothing to do with religion. When a person hates religion so much, they will pin many faults on it and blame it for far too much. I call it " habitual hostile selection". Keep the blame in your back pocket and pull it out continually.
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Post by Ahso! »

Mickiel;1521934 wrote: Oh I disagree with this so much , your just pinning the tag on your donkey religion. Racism existed before religion existed. The origin of racism has absolutely nothing to do with religion. When a person hates religion so much, they will pin many faults on it and blame it for far too much. I call it " habitual hostile selection". Keep the blame in your back pocket and pull it out continually.Perhaps you can show us where and when racism started?

I misspoke in my earlier post. It isn't that racism is a myth, racism is very real. What I meant to say is that race is a myth.
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Post by Mickiel »

Ahso!;1521936 wrote: Perhaps you can show us where and when racism started?

I misspoke in my earlier post. It isn't that racism is a myth, racism is very real. What I meant to say is that race is a myth.7



Look under "The origins of racism". By Rob Brooks.
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Post by Ahso! »

Mickiel;1521940 wrote: 7



Look under "The origins of racism". By Rob Brooks.Are you referring to this?

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/rob-broo ... 00504.html
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Post by Mickiel »

Ahso!;1521941 wrote: Are you referring to this?

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/rob-broo ... 00504.html


Yes. I think it's a good read.
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Post by Ahso! »

Mickiel;1521943 wrote: Yes. I think it's a good read.It's true that the Brooks Blog doesn't mention religion specifically as an in-group/out-group, but I think it's safe to say that religion is indeed a group that probably has a history of using race to increase its membership size.

National identity is another area where racism is practiced.

I imagine skin shade (if that's how we're defining 'race' here) might have played a part in segregating groups, but then so might have eye color, or hair color, or any number of differences in traits.

Was Religion the first group guilty of using 'race' as a form of segregation? Probably not. So in that sense, it's not the root cause of racism, but surely, you'd have to agree that religion has used race as a means to segregate, and worse. In that sense, I agree with what fourpart posted.
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Post by tude dog »

FourPart;1521897 wrote: As most bad things, Racism generally has its roots in Religion.


That is quite a statement.

Are you talking of all religion across the globe? Anyone in particular that you are accusing?

I don't see it within the Judeo-Christian tradition. Maybe you could enlighten me?

FourPart;1521897 wrote: Throughout the world you will find that the most integrated societies are also the least Religious.


That may be true, so what?
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tude dog;1521947 wrote: That is quite a statement.

Are you talking of all religion across the globe?He said "Religion" (with a capital R), didn't he? tude dog;1521947 wrote: Anyone in particular that you are accusing? Obviously not (see above).

tude dog;1521947 wrote: I don't see it within the Judeo-Christian tradition. Maybe you could enlighten me?I don't think you even know what you're talking about. Are you referencing both Jews and Christians, or are you only meaning Jews?

Either way, different sects of Christians have a history of all sorts of racism, though that doesn't mean all Christians are racist.

As for Jews, you can't say the official position of Israel toward Palestinians, doesn't appear to be racist. Can you? Again, that doesn't mean all Jews are racist.

The "Religions" are often used as justification for such racism.



tude dog;1521947 wrote: That may be true, so what?He made a statement. What's your point? Your posts are so nonsensical most of the time.
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Post by tude dog »

Ahso!;1521948 wrote: He said "Religion" (with a capital R), didn't he? Obviously not (see above).


Actually, he did indicate across the globe. I just didn't catch it.

"As most bad things, Racism generally has its roots in Religion. Throughout the world you will find that the most integrated societies are also the least Religious."

World.

Thank you for the interruption.

Ahso!;1521948 wrote: I don't think you even know what you're talking about. Are you referencing both Jews and Christians, or are you only meaning Jews?


I was thinking along these lines,

Judeo-Christian is a term that groups Judaism and Christianity, either in reference to Christianity's derivation from Judaism, both religions' common use of the Torah, or due to perceived parallels or commonalities shared values between those two religions, which has contained as part of Western culture.

Ahso!;1521948 wrote: Either way, different sects of Christians have a history of all sorts of racism, though that doesn't mean all Christians are racist.


OK, Christianity is not a racist religion.

Ahso!;1521948 wrote: As for Jews, you can't say the official position of Israel toward Palestinians, doesn't appear to be racist. Can you?


That not t me. In fact, I would argue the Arabs not only appear racist but are.

Ahso!;1521948 wrote: Again, that doesn't mean all Jews are racist.


Ahso!;1521948 wrote: The "Religions" are often used as justification for such racism.


How many tens of millions have been murdered in the name of Socialism?

Ahso!;1521948 wrote: He made a statement. What's your point? Your posts are so nonsensical most of the time.


Just wondering what makes Religion inherently racist, and the cause of most bad things.
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Post by AnneBoleyn »

td: "Just wondering what makes Religion inherently racist, and the cause of most bad things."

Because...........it's an easy dodge. People naively (IMO) believe that if there were no Religious issues we wouldn't find other reasons to hate each others guts. We have a primitive part of our brain, which, despite all our fancy civilization, is still alive & well.
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Post by Mickiel »

AnneBoleyn;1521955 wrote: td: "Just wondering what makes Religion inherently racist, and the cause of most bad things."

Because...........it's an easy dodge. People naively (IMO) believe that if there were no Religious issues we wouldn't find other reasons to hate each others guts. We have a primitive part of our brain, which, despite all our fancy civilization, is still alive & well.


Religion is like a mirror, it's man made for any to look into but we created it. And we use it to look at ourselves and some to even define themselves. The invention never precedes the inventors.

We invented racism as well.
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Post by Mickiel »

Mickiel;1521964 wrote: Religion is like a mirror, it's man made for any to look into but we created it. And we use it to look at ourselves and some to even define themselves. The invention never precedes the inventors.

We invented racism as well.


How long will racism last? It has grown too strong and ingrained in humans to be erased by anything weaker than itself. The question then arises: "Can man create something that can become stronger than himself?"
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Post by tude dog »

Mickiel;1521964 wrote: Religion is like a mirror, it's man made for any to look into but we created it. And we use it to look at ourselves and some to even define themselves. The invention never precedes the inventors.


NAW, nothing like that.

I imagine primitive peoples working hard just to survive with little spare time. Wondered what is this all about and for some reason it being innate they turned to some kind of spirituality. They then figured out agriculture, animal husbandry and voila!

Keeping this simple they had time to think about things beyond where to get the next eats.

I believe that the more enlightened rather than turn to hedonism created a tradition made possible by writing.

Now understand I am talking about the people, regular folk, not the institutions.

Mickiel;1521964 wrote: We invented racism as well.


Somebody had to do it.
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Post by G#Gill »

Unfortunately racism is now here to stay. It is because the human race is so intolerant with people who are from different cultures and countries.
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Post by Bryn Mawr »

Mickiel;1521965 wrote: How long will racism last? It has grown too strong and ingrained in humans to be erased by anything weaker than itself. The question then arises: "Can man create something that can become stronger than himself?"


The strongest force of all will erase it - time.
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Post by AnneBoleyn »

Bryn Mawr;1521991 wrote: The strongest force of all will erase it - time.


Don't you mean death? If we didn't die our crazy ideas wouldn't die with us. Life progresses by death, kind of like pruning the human race.
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Post by Bryn Mawr »

AnneBoleyn;1521992 wrote: Don't you mean death? If we didn't die our crazy ideas wouldn't die with us. Life progresses by death, kind of like pruning the human race.


No, individuals die but the race goes on. Each of us teaches the next generation how to think and it takes time for ways of behaviour to evolve.
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Post by Mickiel »

Bryn Mawr;1521991 wrote: The strongest force of all will erase it - time.


I think the force that will erase time , will erase racism.
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Post by Mickiel »

Mickiel;1521996 wrote: I think the force that will erase time , will erase racism.


Even modern societies couldn't erase racism.
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Post by LarsMac »

That's a bit premature, don't you think?

What we call "Modern Society" is barely a century away from when racism was perfectly acceptable, and even encouraged in most of the larger societies.

In our lifetimes, here in the US, it was even the rule of law. It is only in the last few decades that Society has really determined that Racism is not an acceptable behavior, and there is still some significant resistance to that notion.

We will be long dead and returned to the dust of the cosmos before Society on this planet can proclaim Racism dead and buried.
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Post by tude dog »

Can’t We All Just Get Along?

It just doesn't end, , Viral standoff between a tribal elder and a high schooler is more complicated than it first seemed

The three groups that met Friday in the cold shadow of the Lincoln Memorial could hardly have been more different. They were indigenous rights activists from Michigan, Catholic schoolboys from Kentucky — some wearing Make America Great Again hats — and Hebrew Israelites from the nation’s capital.

They were Native American, Caucasian and African American; old, young and middle-aged.

And there, beneath the fallen president’s promise to work “with malice toward none, with charity for all,” they came together in an incident that would echo nationwide for its ugliness.

The Israelites and students exchanged taunts, videos show. The Native Americans and Hebrew Israelites say some students shouted, “Build the wall!” But the chant is not heard on the widely circulated videos, and the Cincinnati Enquirer quotes Nick Sandmann, the student at the center of the confrontation, saying he did not hear anyone utter the phrase.

When a Native American elder intervened, singing and playing a prayer song, scores of students around him seem to mimic and mock him, a video posted Monday shows. At one point, he found himself face to face with Sandman, whose frozen smile struck some as nervousness and others as arrogance.

Neither budged.


Everybody is right. ? ?
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Post by tude dog »

LarsMac;1522010 wrote: That's a bit premature, don't you think?

What we call "Modern Society" is barely a century away from when racism was perfectly acceptable, and even encouraged in most of the larger societies.

In our lifetimes, here in the US, it was even the rule of law. It is only in the last few decades that Society has really determined that Racism is not an acceptable behavior, and there is still some significant resistance to that notion.

We will be long dead and returned to the dust of the cosmos before Society on this planet can proclaim Racism dead and buried.


In my lifetime seen a lot of changes in law and general societal attitude.

I don't believe there ever will be an erasure of racism.

As long as there are profiteers who exploit the divide.
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Post by LarsMac »

tude dog;1522011 wrote: Can’t We All Just Get Along?

It just doesn't end, , Viral standoff between a tribal elder and a high schooler is more complicated than it first seemed



Everybody is right. ? ?


That was a very interesting event.

The first report I saw on the media played up the confrontation between the Drummer and the young guy in the MAGA hat.

Reading more about it, it seems it was far more complex. There were several groups involved, and the dynamics of those group interactions was overshadowed by the more simplistic view posed by the first media posting.

An amazing, almost perfect study in how the media can manipulate and exploit peoples' fears and prejudices.

Here is an interesting view of the whole event.

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Post by Mickiel »

The shelf life of racism will inertly develop mold , as it grows from within. It can become a rotting inside. Internal mold established by human beast. It has a voice; a soundtrack that has played throughout the century.
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Post by Mickiel »

I am a black man. I recall being in my first mixed reltionship , she was white and very sweet. I knew racism but this gave me a unique personal look at it. It opens the door to insight and comes at you in different directions. It can offer unity or throw some envy and hate your way. I learned a lot from it.
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Post by Mickiel »

I imagine I can hold racism inside of me as long as I want to. Do we even look at holding the good things in living like that? Why is it easy to hold onto negative things? It seems like a struggle to maintain goodness. The shelf life of good things verses bad things is interesting.
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Post by gmc »

I see (the black hebrew that is) he is citing the story of ham as the progenitor of the black races. It was that tale that was twisted to justify the enslavement of blacks as their punishment for his sins. They are also mysoginists, that too comes from religion eve's curse is so ingrained in out psyche most people don't know it's their.

Racism and mysogyny are not new religion is used to twist and justify it. Since religion is a man made construct I don;t see how it can entirely be blamed. If a wall , anothr man made construct, falls on someone we don;t blame the bricks the builder used do we.

Anti-semitism is purely down to christianity the holocaust would be inconceivaable without 2,000 years of propoganda that the jews killed christ it took till the 1960's before the catholic church changed their view in the matter to one where only some jews were responsible. Not the romans you notive just the jews.

I think the best way to weaken the hold of religion is to make people read the bible, koran whatever for themselves and do away with seperate religious schools. It's harder to hate when you actually know the person.

I am loathe to comment on israeli/palestine as the british and french share a large part of the blame in the way they carved up the middle east to gain access to the oil. Now the americans play the great game with russia except russia has control of one of the main pieces. Oh joy.

Living in peace with each other in mutual respct what chance do such liberal ideas have in a world of trump, putin and brexit.

Watched the video bit like speakers corner in hyde park. What's a cracker and a peckerwood? never heard that one before. Actually the sight of catholic schoolboys attending a march whose aim is to remove a woman's right to choose and impose their religious views on everybody else would cause me more concern as being a greater threat to america. Except of course I'm not american.
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Post by Mickiel »

I think Adam and Eve were black: mid brown to be as exact as one can speculate, because two mid Brown people could have children of more Diverse colors. Thus we can see them having a wide scope of colorful offspring. More melatonin was produced.
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Post by Mickiel »

Mickiel;1522036 wrote: I think Adam and Eve were black: mid brown to be as exact as one can speculate, because two mid Brown people could have children of more Diverse colors. Thus we can see them having a wide scope of colorful offspring. More melatonin was produced.


In my view to achieve the spectrum of different races that we have now, the first two humans who mated , must have had the ability to produce various colors in their offspring. Two light whites cannot produce other colors, nor could two dark blacks, the melatonin has to have been a wide variety.
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Shelf life of racism.

Post by Mickiel »

Mickiel;1522038 wrote: In my view to achieve the spectrum of different races that we have now, the first two humans who mated , must have had the ability to produce various colors in their offspring. Two light whites cannot produce other colors, nor could two dark blacks, the melatonin has to have been a wide variety.


Racism started with the offspring of Adam. If you are one who does not accept Adam's existence, then it still started with the offspring of civilized man.
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tude dog
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Shelf life of racism.

Post by tude dog »

gmc;1522035 wrote: .Watched the video bit like speakers corner in hyde park. What's a cracker and a peckerwood? never heard that one before.


Know cracker, never heard of peckerwood, Seems I know some peckerwoods, fine folk.

gmc;1522035 wrote: Actually the sight of catholic schoolboys attending a march whose aim is to remove a woman's right to choose


That is a matter of perspective. I am sure their aim is about protecting human life.

gmc;1522035 wrote: and impose their religious views on everybody else would cause me more concern as being a greater threat to america.Except of course I'm not american.


IMPOSE????

I would argue that Roe v. Wade was the imposition. Before we get into that, I will say that if it was a law constructed by the people I could get behind it, but it was imposed cutting off all debate and consideration by the people.
If people concentrated on the really important things in life, there'd be a shortage of fishing poles,” Doug Larson.

“Never doubt the courage of the French. They were the ones who discovered that snails are edible.”
― Doug Larson
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tude dog
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Shelf life of racism.

Post by tude dog »

Mickiel;1522041 wrote: Racism started with the offspring of Adam. If you are one who does not accept Adam's existence, then it still started with the offspring of civilized man.


I don't know the origin of civilized man, but it must have started wifh some important LESSON
If people concentrated on the really important things in life, there'd be a shortage of fishing poles,” Doug Larson.

“Never doubt the courage of the French. They were the ones who discovered that snails are edible.”
― Doug Larson
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Mickiel
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Shelf life of racism.

Post by Mickiel »

tude dog;1522043 wrote: I don't know the origin of civilized man, but it must have started wifh some important LESSON


There was a time that man changed in his ways and being. He existed and something happened to him where his knowledge and being just took a dramatic turn and he exploded off into historical directions. That was the birth of civilized man.
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Shelf life of racism.

Post by gmc »

Mickiel;1522036 wrote: I think Adam and Eve were black: mid brown to be as exact as one can speculate, because two mid Brown people could have children of more Diverse colors. Thus we can see them having a wide scope of colorful offspring. More melatonin was produced.


Does it matter? If, as the religious like to claim, we are all made in god's image are they saying god made a mistake when he makes people of different colour?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tower_of_Babel

"Accordong to the story about the tower of babel a united humanity in the generations following the Great Flood, speaking a single language and migrating eastward, comes to the land of Shinar (שִׁ×*ְעָר‬). There they agree to build a city and a tower tall enough to reach heaven. God, observing their city and tower, confounds their speech so that they can no longer understand each other, and scatters them around the world. "

Different colours different languages god just doesn't want is to get along does he!
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Mickiel
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Shelf life of racism.

Post by Mickiel »

gmc;1522045 wrote:

Different colours different languages god just doesn't want is to get along does he!


I don't think he wanted us to get along in this life, no.9
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Shelf life of racism.

Post by tude dog »

Mickiel;1522046 wrote: I don't think he wanted us to get along in this life, no.9


I would think he just wanted us to be different and go to separate parts of the world.

Could go further with that but that would sound like some preaching.
If people concentrated on the really important things in life, there'd be a shortage of fishing poles,” Doug Larson.

“Never doubt the courage of the French. They were the ones who discovered that snails are edible.”
― Doug Larson

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