There Is No Creator

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Scrat
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Post by Scrat »

The universe was not created by anything because time did not exist before the big bang. Without time to exist in, there could not be a creator.

Curiosity "Did God Create the Universe?"

I disagree with Mr Hawking.There is a beginning, there is an end. Our universe was a conscious act. There is a "creator" we just don't know where it is yet.
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LarsMac
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Post by LarsMac »

Time is a human construct.

There was a "before the Big Bang"
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Ahso!
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Post by Ahso! »

I honestly don't think it matters other than for exclusionary purposes in grouping.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,”

Voltaire



I have only one thing to do and that's

Be the wave that I am and then

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gmc
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Post by gmc »

Leaving aside the vexed question of who created the creator we don't know enough to form an opinion either way is about the only claim you can make. One thing I am sure of non of the religions have any particular insight and the world would be a better place if we stopped believing that they did. It's up to those who believe there is a creator to prove it claiming they have the truth and the way and warring on anyone who disagrees is hardly a constructive approach
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Post by fuzzywuzzy »

What are you talking about???? I just created a fantastic Dinner
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Post by LarsMac »

gmc;1364317 wrote: Leaving aside the vexed question of who created the creator we don't know enough to form an opinion either way is about the only claim you can make. One thing I am sure of non of the religions have any particular insight and the world would be a better place if we stopped believing that they did. It's up to those who believe there is a creator to prove it claiming they have the truth and the way and warring on anyone who disagrees is hardly a constructive approach


Mr Hawkings seems to be taking a somewhat religious point of view in that he seems to have a THE inside track on the subject.

Not that I care, mind you. We can coexist with differing opinions, unless he were to become militant about it.

He has as much right to be wrong as I do.
“All it takes to get elected in twenty-first-century America is a mob of frightened sheep and a wolf with a nice smile,”
― Greg Bear, Darwin's Children
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LarsMac
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Post by LarsMac »

fuzzywuzzy;1364318 wrote: What are you talking about???? I just created a fantastic Dinner


Keep it in the warmer. I'll be right over.
“All it takes to get elected in twenty-first-century America is a mob of frightened sheep and a wolf with a nice smile,”
― Greg Bear, Darwin's Children
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Post by Clodhopper »

Whether God exists or not, there is a spiritual side to life. The existence of mystics over milennia and their experiences are real, even if exploring altered states of consciousness owed more to fasting and or interesting substances than God as a direct cause. But we will always create God, even if he doesn't exist, even if we call Him the Spirit of the Universe, or Nirvana, or Odin, or The Light. In that sense God is an ideal, and a reflection of us. I do not think you can destroy God until you destroy all of us.
The crowd: "Yes! We are all individuals!"

Lone voice: "I'm not."
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Post by gmc »

Clodhopper;1364461 wrote: Whether God exists or not, there is a spiritual side to life. The existence of mystics over millenia and their experiences are real, even if exploring altered states of consciousness owed more to fasting and or interesting substances than God as a direct cause. But we will always create God, even if he doesn't exist, even if we call Him the Spirit of the Universe, or Nirvana, or Odin, or The Light. In that sense God is an ideal, and a reflection of us. I do not think you can destroy God until you destroy all of us.


There is a spiritual side, what we really could do without is all those who think they know the answers and insist on killing over it.
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Post by Clodhopper »

Yep.
The crowd: "Yes! We are all individuals!"

Lone voice: "I'm not."
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Post by LarsMac »

gmc;1364477 wrote: There is a spiritual side, what we really could do without is all those who think they know the answers and insist on killing over it.


Agreed
“All it takes to get elected in twenty-first-century America is a mob of frightened sheep and a wolf with a nice smile,”
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Post by YZGI »

gmc;1364477 wrote: There is a spiritual side, what we really could do without is all those who think they know the answers and insist on killing over it.


Yup. Who gave them that idea anyways?
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Post by gmc »

YZGI;1364656 wrote: Yup. Who gave them that idea anyways?


Well they would say god.
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Post by Saint_ »

(steps outside and looks up at the galaxy) ROFL! Well of course there's a Creator! Duh! What are these guys, blind?:thinking:

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Post by Bryn Mawr »

Saint_;1364672 wrote: (steps outside and looks up at the galaxy) ROFL! Well of course there's a Creator! Duh! What are these guys, blind?:thinking:


The Creator created the laws of physics, the laws of physics created the galaxy - given the laws of physics the galaxy will exist and will be beautiful.
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Post by jeje_chow »

No one but God has created everything :)
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Post by Saint_ »

Bryn Mawr;1365692 wrote: The Creator created the laws of physics, the laws of physics created the galaxy - given the laws of physics the galaxy will exist and will be beautiful.


Well, the painter mixes the paint and then paints the picture, so that's the same...right? We're the painting God created!
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Post by kingsley1929 »

reality is that which persists. that which exists in the present and the future. worlds arise out of reality, exists in reality and merge back into reality. worlds are created and destroyed. reality remains ever the same.

is there a creator: I don't know: neither does anyone else. we live in ignorance. ( but I would love to know!)
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Post by rajakrsna »

kingsley1929;1389490 wrote: reality is that which persists. that which exists in the present and the future. worlds arise out of reality, exists in reality and merge back into reality. worlds are created and destroyed. reality remains ever the same.

is there a creator: I don't know: neither does anyone else. we live in ignorance. ( but I would love to know!)


Do you believe in mysticism?

Milk Miracle Aug 21 2006 - YouTube
Om namo bagavate vasudevaya, " God is the Cause of All causes."
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Post by Pappy »

jeje_chow;1365765 wrote: No one but God has created everything :)


An assumption no one can prove.....
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Post by kingsley1929 »

he Creator created the laws of physics, the laws of physics created the galaxy - given the laws of physics the galaxy will exist and will be beautiful.

Bryn.who created God , and why?
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Post by Pappy »

kingsley1929;1389805 wrote: he Creator created the laws of physics, the laws of physics created the galaxy - given the laws of physics the galaxy will exist and will be beautiful.

Bryn.who created God , and why?


He cannot answer that one. Ben Franklin once said " I looked around for God's graces and saw none."
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Post by Bryn Mawr »

kingsley1929;1389805 wrote: he Creator created the laws of physics, the laws of physics created the galaxy - given the laws of physics the galaxy will exist and will be beautiful.

Bryn.who created God , and why?


Before my time is that one - you'll have to ask an oldster :-)

Personally I like Saint's response - "Well, the painter mixes the paint and then paints the picture, so that's the same...right? We're the painting God created!" but that just puts the problem one step further back.

If I was being cynical then my answer would have been "The Church, in their own image" but that doesn't work either - they might well have butchered the Word but the belief must have been there in order for the Church to exist in the first place.



Is God a support system invented by humans for their own protection? I don't know - when it comes to religion then that is the basic answer to everything, I don't know but I'd like to find out.
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Post by Ahso! »

LarsMac;1364307 wrote: Time is a human construct.Yes it is but it's a reference point, and we need reference points in order to understand what we observe and also so we can communicate and relate to one another.

LarsMac;1364307 wrote: There was a "before the Big Bang"Not for us there wasn't.

The question as to whether or not something existed before the existence of our universe is like children endlessly asking the question "why". Sooner or later you just have to inform the child that that's just the way it is.

Did life exist before I was born? Not to me it didn't. I can read newspaper articles, view photos of other peoples lives before I was born but they mean nothing to me in the context of the question: "did life exist before I was born?" No, it didn't because I could not experience it, therefore it has no relation to my personal existence.

Go back to where you grew up and stand outside the house where you lived and ask yourself: "what happened here before I lived in this house?" What we eventually realize is that it doesn't matter because the person asking was not a part of it, so for all intent and purposes the answer becomes: "nothing relevant happened here before I arrived."

What went on here at FG before I joined I couldn't care less about because I wasn't here. New members can read comments about FG's history from members who have been here longer, however, for each member time here begins when they arrived, not when others arrived. So the question of: "did FG exist before I saw it?" is meaningless.

Universes may have been expanding and contracting forever, who knows, but as for us, time began when our world, our universe came into existence. That's what we know, and that's all that matters. Attempting to go back further than that is useless and irrelevant because our reference points weren't born yet.

Imagining that there is some person or persons causing expansions and contractions of universes makes the whole god idea sound even more ludicrous than ever.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,”

Voltaire



I have only one thing to do and that's

Be the wave that I am and then

Sink back into the ocean

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Post by Bryn Mawr »

Ahso!;1389852 wrote: Yes it is but it's a reference point, and we need reference points in order to understand what we observe and also so we can communicate and relate to one another.

Not for us there wasn't.

The question as to whether or not something existed before the existence of our universe is like children endlessly asking the question "why". Sooner or later you just have to inform the child that that's just the way it is.

Did life exist before I was born? Not to me it didn't. I can read newspaper articles, view photos of other peoples lives before I was born but they mean nothing to me in the context of the question: "did life exist before I was born?" No, it didn't because I could not experience it, therefore it has no relation to my personal existence.

Go back to where you grew up and stand outside the house where you lived and ask yourself: "what happened here before I lived in this house?" What we eventually realize is that it doesn't matter because the person asking was not a part of it, so for all intent and purposes the answer becomes: "nothing relevant happened here before I arrived."

What went on here at FG before I joined I couldn't care less about because I wasn't here. New members can read comments about FG's history from members who have been here longer, however, for each member time here begins when they arrived, not when others arrived. So the question of: "did FG exist before I saw it?" is meaningless.

Universes may have been expanding and contracting forever, who knows, but as for us, time began when our world, our universe came into existence. That's what we know, and that's all that matters. Attempting to go back further than that is useless and irrelevant because our reference points weren't born yet.

Imagining that there is some person or persons causing expansions and contractions of universes makes the whole god idea sound even more ludicrous than ever.


Whilst I can agree that "what was before the universe" is an unanswerable question in that all of our knowledge exists in reference to this universe, I cannot agree with the rest of your post.

Although I can have no direct knowledge of life before I was born, neither can I have direct knowledge of life in the next town - I'm here and not there. In both cases I am reliant on external reports of events but in both cases those events are important to me - they shape my environment and give meaning to what is happening around me.

You say "nothing relevant happened here before I arrived". Extend the question from a single house to the country you live in. Everything that happens to you today is a result of things that happened before you were born.

You say that the question "did FG exist before I saw it?" is meaningless. I disagree - the way that members here react to certain stimuli is strongly influenced by events that occurred before you joined.

Causality is not just proximate - those causes have causes have causes and the bigger the event the further back in time you need to go to find the prime causes. For most significant events that will be to a time before you were born.
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Post by Ahso! »

Bryn Mawr;1389867 wrote: Causality is not just proximate - those causes have causes have causes and the bigger the event the further back in time you need to go to find the prime causes. For most significant events that will be to a time before you were born.And they are all references to life as one expands their relationship with the real outside world. For example, I didn't say no one lived prior to my birth, what I said was it was meaningless to me. As I'm introduced to existence more my frame of reference expands as does my participation.

The point I was making is that of references in life, of which none exists before the expansion of our universe. That's where it all begins [for us].
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,”

Voltaire



I have only one thing to do and that's

Be the wave that I am and then

Sink back into the ocean

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Bryn Mawr
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Post by Bryn Mawr »

Ahso!;1389878 wrote: And they are all references to life as one expands their relationship with the real outside world. For example, I didn't say no one lived prior to my birth, what I said was it was meaningless to me. As I'm introduced to existence more my frame of reference expands as does my participation.

The point I was making is that of references in life, of which none exists before the expansion of our universe. That's where it all begins [for us].


If I understand what you are saying here, that as we grow our frame of reference grows to take in more of the universe then fine. I did not understand your statement that anything that occurred before you were born was meaningless to you - if that referred to a time when you were a child then I understand the statement but not its relevance.

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