The Problem With Socialism

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Accountable
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The Problem With Socialism

Post by Accountable »

With apologies for derailing, I started a new thread.

http://www.forumgarden.com/forums/curre ... ost1341579
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Accountable
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The Problem With Socialism

Post by Accountable »

Well Hell, I didn't mean to kill the thread! Let's try to crank it up again.gmc;1341399 wrote: I'm sorry but the British are just so much better at taking the **** out of politicians.

YouTube - U.K. Election.

There really is a raving monster loony party in the UK by the way. Don't get many votes but you never know what then future holds.

posted by recovering conservative



Cheer up the rest of the world will get on with things while the united states does it's own thing. In a way you are about fifty to seventy five years behind europe and china in the left right debate. Your fascists weren't defeated like they were in europe they morphed in to something else and kept their power base intact. The language of debate seems to have been stifled with words like socialist, communist and liberal all lumped together as if they mean the same thing and shouldn't be talked about in public. Or so it seems to me but I can't claim to be in a position to make an accurate assessment. Do you learn about socialism at school? It's so much a part of our history you can't study it without coming across it in one form especially when you get to the impact of industrialisation and the growth of cities and an urban working class and the political reforms that resulted from it. The growth of the labour party (used to be socialist don't you know now the public school brigade have got control) Red clydeside and the general strike etc etc, all fine left wing working class movements. Revolutionary socialism is as dead as the dodo but democratic socialism is alive and well. The debate is not socialism or capitalsim but rather how do you meld the two for the best way forward. That's a discussion americans seem unable to have without labels beimng spat at each other. Libertarianism is also passe anarchism dies out in the thirties and was a middle class intellectual movement doomed to failure anyway. Bit like hippies, you can only drop out if you have money behind you evrynody else needs to work for a living and no god fearing socialist will put up with scroungers. I do mean god fearing, the roots of socialism lie in the enlightemment and the protestant reformation. Your declaration of independence owes much to those early socialists the levellers, the wording almost paraphrases the agreement of the people written in 1649. The apparent atheism of socialism is because the church was part of the establishment used to maintain the status quo. It's like everything else in politics, if you can't counter an argument pick on something else to focus on and change the discussion to somethimng else. Politicians are good at it.

People can be motivated to behave altruistically they just have to be pissed off at the establishment enough to smack it down. We introduced universal healthcare on the back of overwhelming support for it, any parrtyb that doesn't support the concept or looks like they might change it doesn't get elected. Maggie Thatcher was unpopular because she was seen as uncaring, it cost her her job. When Obama got elected it looked as if finally, the american peple were getting grip on the right wing nutters running the place, that's why his election was welcomed around the world, what an anti-climax that was. The next election will be interesting, will you vote for unemployment and being thrown out your homes or for more caring politivians who want social reform?

I wouldn't actually call myself a socialist, I'm left wing about some things and right wing about others, just like most people it depends what you are talkng about. You don't have left wing politicians in the states, they just seem to be right wing and more to the right. Supporting universal healthcare in the UK is the middle ground in politics, privatising it is right wing nutcase territory.
koan
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The Problem With Socialism

Post by koan »

lol. I wouldn't say the thread got killed, the subject seems to have started a number of related threads that were intriguing. I think spot's how to get your name on a ballot was a in interesting connected subject. I got thinking about that and the bible and lost track of whether we'd finished with this one or not.
gmc
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The Problem With Socialism

Post by gmc »

koan;1342654 wrote: lol. I wouldn't say the thread got killed, the subject seems to have started a number of related threads that were intriguing. I think spot's how to get your name on a ballot was a in interesting connected subject. I got thinking about that and the bible and lost track of whether we'd finished with this one or not.


Keep away from that it will mess up your brain, especially if you start taking it too seriously.
koan
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The Problem With Socialism

Post by koan »

gmc;1342682 wrote: Keep away from that it will mess up your brain, especially if you start taking it too seriously.


You don't think spot will really try to get his name on a ballot?
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Bryn Mawr
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The Problem With Socialism

Post by Bryn Mawr »

koan;1342701 wrote: You don't think spot will really try to get his name on a ballot?


Not in America

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