Why human dominance?

Ahso!
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Post by Ahso! »

Why do you think it is humans have dominance over the planet? Where did it come from and why us?

I'm sure most of you will accurately guess my answer so I won't bore you with a long post. For those who don't know, my short answer to this question is: it is due to our evolution through the process of natural and sexual selection. Evolution meaning change, not advanced change.
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Post by fuzzywuzzy »

Why do you think it is humans have dominance over the planet?


ummm, cause it just turned out that way?:wah:
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Post by AussiePam »

Dinosaurs once did. Microbes may yet.
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Post by hoppy »

Necessity.:)
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Post by FUBAR »

We are the only animal that can injure or kill from a distance and gather food without even being there(traps snares etc). This gave us spare time to do other things than just eat so our brains developed. Bigger brains better tech easier hunting even more spare time......:-6:-6
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Post by hoppy »

An we's gots nukes.:-2
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Post by theia »

Maybe the volcano in Iceland is trying to tell us something about human dominance :thinking:
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Post by Ahso! »

theia;1304187 wrote: Maybe the volcano in Iceland is trying to tell us something about human dominance :thinking:Meaning someone is speaking to us through the volcanish language? Who then is doing the speaking, the earth itself or another entity? :-6
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Post by Ahso! »

FUBAR;1304140 wrote: We are the only animal that can injure or kill from a distance and gather food without even being there(traps snares etc). This gave us spare time to do other things than just eat so our brains developed. Bigger brains better tech easier hunting even more spare time......:-6:-6Interesting! Do you think we make choices and decisions based on how much spare time we can garner from them? Why do you think it is we want to accumulate spare time?
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Post by theia »

Ahso!;1304192 wrote: Meaning someone is speaking to us through the volcanish language? Who then is doing the speaking, the earth itself or another entity? :-6


The goddess of the volcano, of course, Ahso. Don't underestimate her, she's omnipotent and wholly unforgiving :)
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Post by Bryn Mawr »

Ahso!;1304089 wrote: Why do you think it is humans have dominance over the planet? Where did it come from and why us?

I'm sure most of you will accurately guess my answer so I won't bore you with a long post. For those who don't know, my short answer to this question is: it is due to our evolution through the process of natural and sexual selection. Evolution meaning change, not advanced change.


If we'd descended from bears then we'd be sat here discussing why bears have dominance over the planet. If no species reached dominance then the question would not be asked. There is no answer beyond "that's the way it is".
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Post by Ahso! »

theia;1304199 wrote: The goddess of the volcano, of course, Ahso. Don't underestimate her, she's omnipotent and wholly unforgiving :)*kneels sheepishly before her* Don't we men know it!
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Post by Ahso! »

Bryn Mawr;1304203 wrote: If we'd descended from bears then we'd be sat here discussing why bears have dominance over the planet. If no species reached dominance then the question would not be asked. There is no answer beyond "that's the way it is".But we didn't, so we're not!

You don't think it has anything to do with mating?
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Post by LarsMac »

Ahso!;1304196 wrote: Interesting! Do you think we make choices and decisions based on how much spare time we can garner from them? Why do you think it is we want to accumulate spare time?


More spare time equals more time for stuff that matters, like learning new tricks (fire, wheel, bridges, projectiles and launchers, cooking), and teaching the kids all the tricks, not to mention time to make more kids and see that they get a chance to mature, which of course ensures a smarter stronger species, which can do more tricks and feed more kids, and, before you know it the damn humans are EVERYWHERE.
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Post by K.Snyder »

Ahso!;1304089 wrote: Why do you think it is humans have dominance over the planet? Where did it come from and why us?

I'm sure most of you will accurately guess my answer so I won't bore you with a long post. For those who don't know, my short answer to this question is: it is due to our evolution through the process of natural and sexual selection. Evolution meaning change, not advanced change.


The definition of "Dominance" can only be applied to a state of moral intelligence. When it's mistakenly not then the definition of "Dominance" becomes "Destruction" regardless of how one may wish to spell it with symbols.

Could you at all cotton to the idea we as human beings are nothing more than a bacteria eating away at the World at the sole discretion of our personal greed?
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Post by K.Snyder »

Ahso!;1304210 wrote: But we didn't, so we're not!

You don't think it has anything to do with mating?


Evolution isn't defined by the idea we as human beings have a choice of our own characteristics. I'd think one that loves evolution as much as yourself would know that mating is nothing relevant to evolution other than by pure chance. Evolution is chance and happening, or "There is no answer beyond "that's the way it is"" so eloquently referenced by Mr. Mawr.
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Post by LarsMac »

K.Snyder;1304323 wrote: Evolution isn't defined by the idea we as human beings have a choice of our own characteristics. I'd think one that loves evolution as much as yourself would know that mating is nothing relevant to evolution other than by pure chance. Evolution is chance and happening, or "There is no answer beyond "that's the way it is"" so eloquently referenced by Mr. Mawr.


Well, until recently, at least, there was a lot of "selectivity" involved in the mating rituals of a lot of tribes of humans.

Some have been fairly well documented. People are often attracted to others who would fit some instinctive preconceptions of "the right one"

In the industrial age, with members of so many tribes all jumbled up and thrown together (both genetically and physically) I am sure the instinctive attractions have been horribly confused of late, so it does seem to be somewhat accidental, but there is probably more process going on than we understand.
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Post by K.Snyder »

LarsMac;1304331 wrote: Well, until recently, at least, there was a lot of "selectivity" involved in the mating rituals of a lot of tribes of humans.

Some have been fairly well documented. People are often attracted to others who would fit some instinctive preconceptions of "the right one"

In the industrial age, with members of so many tribes all jumbled up and thrown together (both genetically and physically) I am sure the instinctive attractions have been horribly confused of late, so it does seem to be somewhat accidental, but there is probably more process going on than we understand.


Selecting mates purely for creating dominant children isn't a cultural prevalence.

Selecting mates for personal preference is entirely another story. Having children is a chance happening of the initial thought process. It's pure happening
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Post by LarsMac »

K.Snyder;1304334 wrote: Selecting mates purely for creating dominant children isn't a cultural prevalence.

Selecting mates for personal preference is entirely another story. Having children is a chance happening of the initial thought process. It's pure happening


Firstly, I am not suggesting that the selection process is always a conscious act. Nor am I suggesting it is always of cultural significance.
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Post by K.Snyder »

LarsMac;1304341 wrote: Firstly, I am not suggesting that the selection process is always a conscious act. Nor am I suggesting it is always of cultural significance.


I'm only suggesting that if selecting mates purely for producing dominant children was a cultural prevalence this could then rightfully be defined as "evolutionary". Without it the initial question asked by Ahso! is a viable "no".
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Post by K.Snyder »

Bryn Mawr;1304203 wrote: If we'd descended from bears then we'd be sat here discussing why bears have dominance over the planet. Yes, Bryn, but perhaps bears are more "dominant" than humans. After all, do you know of a "man" that could stand head to chest with a 1600lb grizzly bear, with it's hunched back, extended open paws, and insistence to blow it's rudely disgusting breath in the "man's" face while observing this "man to not wet himself profusely? I'd be amazed if he successfully managed to give crapping himself a try as well...
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Post by LarsMac »

K.Snyder;1304346 wrote: I'm only suggesting that if selecting mates purely for producing dominant children was a cultural prevalence this could then rightfully be defined as "evolutionary". Without it the initial question asked by Ahso! is a viable "no".


Well, now, I would have to take issue with your statement:

The definition of "Dominance" can only be applied to a state of moral intelligence. When it's mistakenly not then the definition of "Dominance" becomes "Destruction" regardless of how one may wish to spell it with symbols.


I think in AHSO!'s question, the term "Dominance" merely refers to the overall population of humans versus other species within the environment.

Humans have, in fact taken over nearly all land capable of supporting mammalian life forms, and severely impacted nearly ever aspect of the global life system.

That could be defined as dominant.

The subject of moral intelligence is completely another matter.

Even so, within specific cultural groups, there has been, for centuries, a conscious selection process among members to select for dominant traits.

Of course, again, there are other, more instinctive selection processes that take place that tend to blend the genetic markers of various "dominant" traits, to continually aid the species to remain more adaptable.
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Post by K.Snyder »

LarsMac;1304351 wrote: Well, now, I would have to take issue with your statement:



I think in AHSO!'s question, the term "Dominance" merely refers to the overall population of humans versus other species within the environment.

Humans have, in fact taken over nearly all land capable of supporting mammalian life forms, and severely impacted nearly ever aspect of the global life system. So then we're only talking about humans being dominant over everything human beings happen to outnumber? If so "Why human dominance?" needs to be altered to reflect that. Human dominance as a mammalian species only? If numbers defines "dominance" then insects are our "Lord".

LarsMac;1304351 wrote: [...]

Even so, within specific cultural groups, there has been, for centuries, a conscious selection process among members to select for dominant traits. Of course, again, there are other, more instinctive selection processes that take place that tend to blend the genetic markers of various "dominant" traits, to continually aid the species to remain more adaptable.
There has also been an instance of somebody dressing up as a clown and acting foolish to then come home to rape and murder young boys too. Considering this when applying ""Dominance" merely refers to the overall population of humans versus other species within the environment" all else is irrelevant when something happens outside of the majority. The very same lack of relevancy that occurs when suggesting "that if selecting mates purely for producing dominant children was a cultural prevalence this could then rightfully be defined as "evolutionary"". It's not prevalent at all therefore it must be concluded of it being irrelevant.

Without the "majority" you cannot define "Dominance" given both of it's context's having been used in this thread
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Post by LarsMac »

K.Snyder;1304354 wrote: So then we're only talking about humans being dominant over everything human beings happen to outnumber? If so "Why human dominance?" needs to be altered to reflect that. Human dominance as a mammalian species only? If numbers defines "dominance" then insects are our "Lord".


Umm, I do remember mentioning something about impact.

But you do have a point.

Of the total biomass of the planet, I think I remember reading that insects hold a distinct numerical edge. So, perhaps, we only "think" we dominate the planet? Everything depends upon perspective, right?

However, name another species that has impacted the planet as much as humans?

I suppose we must await AHSO! to advise as to his intended meaning of "dominant"



K.Snyder;1304354 wrote:

There has also been an instance of somebody dressing up as a clown and acting foolish to then come home to rape and murder young boys too. Considering this when applying ""Dominance" merely refers to the overall population of humans versus other species within the environment" all else is irrelevant when something happens outside of the majority. The very same lack of relevancy that occurs when suggesting "that if selecting mates purely for producing dominant children was a cultural prevalence this could then rightfully be defined as "evolutionary"". It's not prevalent at all therefore it must be concluded of it being irrelevant.

Without the "majority" you cannot define "Dominance" given both of it's context's having been used in this thread


:thinking: :-3 :-2

What?
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Post by Ahso! »

LarsMac;1304383 wrote: Umm, I do remember mentioning something about impact.

But you do have a point.

Of the total biomass of the planet, I think I remember reading that insects hold a distinct numerical edge. So, perhaps, we only "think" we dominate the planet? Everything depends upon perspective, right?

However, name another species that has impacted the planet as much as humans?

I suppose we must await AHSO! to advise as to his intended meaning of "dominant"





:thinking: :-3 :-2

What?Dominance Dom"i*nance, Dominancy Dom"i*nan*cy, n.

Predominance; ascendency; authority.

[1913 Webster]



-- From The Collaborative International Dictionary of English v.0.48

dominance

n 1: superior development of one side of the body [syn: laterality]

2: the state that exists when one person or group has power

over another; "her apparent dominance of her husband was

really her attempt to make him pay attention to her" [syn:

ascendance, ascendence, ascendancy, ascendency, control]

3: the power or right to give orders or make decisions; "he has

the authority to issue warrants"; "deputies are given

authorization to make arrests" [syn: authority, authorization,

authorisation, say-so] Sorry, but as much as I love KSnyder, I'm not going to get caught up in his habit of hair splitting and redefining of words. It detracts from the gist of the conversation.

For whatever reason, KSnyder feels this must be done with nearly every thread in which he participates. I've unfortunately come to the point of having to ignore most of what he writes.
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Post by Bruv »

LarsMac;1304383 wrote:

What?


Thank goodness it's not only me.......I was getting an inferiority complex or thought senility was further advanced than expected.



Dominance surely means control.

Mankind has far more control over the earth than other living thing.......
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
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Post by K.Snyder »

Oh,:thinking: well then you "chaps" have at it

Perhaps if definitions were used correctly to begin with I wouldn't have to mediate
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Post by Ahso! »

hoppy;1304130 wrote: Necessity.:)Necessity of what?
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Post by Ahso! »

LarsMac;1304284 wrote: More spare time equals more time for stuff that matters, like learning new tricks (fire, wheel, bridges, projectiles and launchers, cooking), and teaching the kids all the tricks, not to mention time to make more kids and see that they get a chance to mature, which of course ensures a smarter stronger species, which can do more tricks and feed more kids, and, before you know it the damn humans are EVERYWHERE.Ah! So its not leisure time we're talking about then.
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Post by LarsMac »

Ahso!;1304576 wrote: Ah! So its not leisure time we're talking about then.


Probably not for the first 100 K years, or so.

Fishing was probably the first activity that evolved leisure time.
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Post by Ahso! »

I'm encouraged that no one mentioned the popular idea that a God meant it to be that way. And no apparent fear of the "deny me before men and I shall deny you before my father who is in heaven."

I guess in the early 21st century we might want to word that as "deny me on internet forums and I shall deny you membership to the ultimate forum run by the true administrator in the sky."

No insult intended toward believers. Just having a little fun. But thats one way I can imagine this story taking shape if it were being newly constructed by todays forum enthusiasts.
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Post by mikeinie »

Because we are one of the only creatures on the planet that can adapt to our environment.

We can live in anything from extreme heat to extreme cold, our diet can vary dramatically and eat anything from seafood, to meat to plants and vegetables.

We have no natural enemies other than ourselves and infections. (that is to say there is nothing out there hunting us down for their dinner).

The we can also change our environment to adapt to us such as irrigation, flood control, harnessing energy from nature.

The even more basic is our unique and amazing feature which is our imagination. We are able to invent.

There is no other living creature that can invent tools for survival like we can.

Our only risk that the risk we pose to ourselves as these qualities also bread arrogance and a belief of self importance which is why we have difficulty living in harmony with the balance of nature.
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Post by Ahso! »

Thanks, Mikeinie! Good post!mikeinie;1305154 wrote: Because we are one of the only creatures on the planet that can adapt to our environment.

We can live in anything from extreme heat to extreme cold, our diet can vary dramatically and eat anything from seafood, to meat to plants and vegetables.We humans have proven to be pretty versatile but so have thousands, if not millions or even billions of other species for all we know.

mikeinie;1305154 wrote: We have no natural enemies other than ourselves and infections. (that is to say there is nothing out there hunting us down for their dinner).I know what you mean. I thought that I would mention that every form of bacteria that gets into our system and causes havoc with us as well as all that which munches on our skin and hair and so forth are in fact creatures that are constantly hunting us down for survival of their species. I know I'm not talking about lions and tigers and bears (as Dorothy would say), but species' are species'.

mikeinie;1305154 wrote: That we can also change our environment to adapt to us such as irrigation, flood control, harnessing energy from nature.Pretty amazing, isn't it!

mikeinie;1305154 wrote: The even more basic is our unique and amazing feature which is our imagination. We are able to invent.I agree! Now all we need is a good concrete set of ethics that is simple enough for us all to be able to follow that doesn't discriminate, and we may be good to go.

mikeinie;1305154 wrote: There is no other living creature that can invent tools for survival like we can.Though I'm not so sure that that is not the best state for any species judging how we've managed to push ourselves to the brink and still so many of us don't recognize that fact. Thats due to wrong belief systems in my view.

mikeinie;1305154 wrote: Our only risk that the risk we pose to ourselves as these qualities also bread arrogance and a belief of self importance which is why we have difficulty living in harmony with the balance of nature.Amen to that!
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Post by YZGI »

Re: Why human dominance?



Because Penguins don't have fingers...
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Post by Ahso! »

YZGI;1305177 wrote: Re: Why human dominance?



Because Penguins don't have fingers...But why don't penguins have fingers?
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Post by YZGI »

Ahso!;1305183 wrote: But why don't penguins have fingers?
If they had fingers then they would have finger nails that would cause indigestion in the seals that eat them.
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Post by Ahso! »

YZGI;1305185 wrote: If they had fingers then they would have finger nails that would cause indigestion in the seals that eat them.Good point! But that would actually be an argument for why penguins should have fingers. Survival feature.
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Post by YZGI »

Ahso!;1305186 wrote: Good point! But that would actually be an argument for why penguins should have fingers. Survival feature.
So now you're anti seal? Seals gotta eat too ya know.
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Post by Ahso! »

YZGI;1305189 wrote: So now you're anti seal? Seals gotta eat too ya know.i know you're mostly having fun, and thats fine, but I would like to point out one thing.

Our thought process is backwards. We see and think in terms that everything is here to be food or some other service for something else. The opposite is actually true though. Every species exists not to be a meal but is trying to avoid being a meal while going about attempting to find food that won't hurt or kill them. We think in linear terms when nature is not linear.

The question then is: why do we think linear about nature? Its because we have been taught to. I think we would actually think properly about nature if we were not raised to believe we are chosen or an image of a God. Our intuitive abilities have been switched off by the myths we've been living by.
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Post by YZGI »

Ahso!;1305206 wrote: i know you're mostly having fun, and thats fine, but I would like to point out one thing.



Our thought process is backwards. We see and think in terms that everything is here to be food or some other service for something else. The opposite is actually true though. Every species exists not to be a meal but is trying to avoid being a meal while going about attempting to find food that won't hurt or kill them. We think in linear terms when nature is not linear.



The question then is: why do we think linear about nature? Its because we have been taught to. I think we would actually think properly about nature if we were not raised to believe we are chosen or an image of a God. Our intuitive abilities have been switched off by the myths we've been living by.
So if the Food chain theory is linear, what would be a non linear way of thought pertaining to nature?
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Post by Ahso! »

YZGI;1305213 wrote: So if the Food chain theory is linear, what would be a non linear way of thought pertaining to nature?As a tree.

Instead of the first illustration which was popular thought, the second is more accurate now.

Attached files
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Post by LarsMac »

Ahso!;1305206 wrote:

Our thought process is backwards. We see and think in terms that everything is here to be food or some other service for something else. The opposite is actually true though. Every species exists not to be a meal but is trying to avoid being a meal while going about attempting to find food that won't hurt or kill them. We think in linear terms when nature is not linear.
Well you are correct. there is nothing linear about it.

Everything is food, and everything eats.

The goal of life is to produce more offspring than can be eaten, while finding other life that can be converted to energy to produce the offspring.

Some critters are more clever at the game than others.
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Post by YZGI »

Ahso!;1305223 wrote: As a tree.



Instead of the first illustration which was popular thought, the second is more accurate now.
I knew vegetarians were still killing things.
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Why human dominance?

Post by Ahso! »

This would be the tree for hominids (us).

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“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,”

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I have only one thing to do and that's

Be the wave that I am and then

Sink back into the ocean

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Ahso!
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Why human dominance?

Post by Ahso! »

LarsMac;1305224 wrote: Well you are correct. there is nothing linear about it.

Everything is food, and everything eats.

The goal of life is to produce more offspring than can be eaten, while finding other life that can be converted to energy to produce the offspring.

Some critters are more clever at the game than others.The energy aspect of it is interesting.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,”

Voltaire



I have only one thing to do and that's

Be the wave that I am and then

Sink back into the ocean

Fiona Apple
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Why human dominance?

Post by LarsMac »

Ahso!;1305227 wrote: The energy aspect of it is interesting.


That is pretty much the basic idea.

Cells absorb nutrient matter and convert it to energy.
“All it takes to get elected in twenty-first-century America is a mob of frightened sheep and a wolf with a nice smile,”
― Greg Bear, Darwin's Children

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