Where are we going?

[Ahso!]

CARLA;1273448 wrote: There has to be somethings in life to keep us moving forward. I pulled this from another thread.

Carla's sentence which is quoted above assumes a destination. Moving forward to where or what? Is where we are headed a place of rest?

[spot]

I remember seeing a reference to this in an old edition of Encyclopaedia Britannica when I was at school, it always had a resonance for me:As Robert Pirsig points out, the ancient Greek image of time was quite different: a) we are facing the past, not the future and b) time is moving and we are standing still. The metaphor would be standing in a river looking downstream. This is a much better metaphor: we don’t KNOW what is in the future, even the immediate future, though we might can guess based on the past. All that we can see (remember) is the past, and the further it recedes, the less clear it becomes. And, of course, we can do nothing to influence the passage of time, any more than we can stop the flow of a river.Britannica pre-dated and didn't mention Pirsig and I can't place the source of his comment, I don't remember it in his Motorcycle Maintenance book. That quote's from Your Mental Image of Time | Cosmic Variance | Discover Magazine

Actually the way the old Encyclopaedia Britannica article put it was sitting in a drifting boat looking back at the fields and foothills you've travelled through as the current takes you toward the sea or the rapids or the waterfalls. The past gets mistier and less distinct with distance and you might even hear the occasional rumble of disaster approaching, though you can never look over your shoulder to see what's about to happen. Unless, presumably, being ancient Greeks, they mentioned Seers at that point.

[koan]

It seems that change comes from people with vision who, though they can't see what hasn't happened yet, form a vision of how they'd like it to be and figure out the steps to make it happen.

Visualization is a common means to manifestation. The more people who share the vision and the more passionate they are about the vision the more likely the change will manifest.

[mikeinie]

How do you measure forward?

Movement can be an allusion. Have you ever sat in your car with the break on, and the car beside you creeps forward a bit and you get the sensation that it is you slipping back?

If we walk in the opposite direction than the world is turning, are we moving backwards?

If we run in the same direction are we racing against time?

As humans it is not so much the need to move forward as it is the need to accomplish something with our individual lives.

I think then it is the accumulation of all the accomplishments that give us the sense of moving forward.

In many ways our accomplishments and developments stop us from moving forward and put us in a place of stagnations, such as mass media and the number of hours spent idol in front of televisions.

In some cases our developments may even moves us backwards. Have we evolved or digressed now that we have developed weapons of mass destruction?

Eventually we all make the same destination, and that is to the end of our lives, when we get to look back and ask ourselves;

Did I live a good life?

Did I love enough?

Was I loved?

No one ever lay in their death bed saying ‘I wish I spent more time watching TV’

[Ahso!]

Is it simply that one step begets the next step? Thats about as far as I think visionaries can see with any accuracy. But I agree that we hardly move much at all.

In the next paragraph of her post, Carla spoke of sports as a way forward. I certainly can see Carla's point in the advancement of civil rights for females and people of color in America. I agree with what she said too, but I can't see sports providing any more forward steps as it has already. So, has sports served its purpose and is it time for sports to take more of a back seat roll? I believe it is. I like sports and am a devoted baseball fan, but I like and focus on the sport itself rather than the fallible participants whom play it. Though I must admit each year it gets more difficult to remain interested. I think its my age.

[CARLA]

I agree movement can be an illusion as most of what we see is an illusion. :-2

I will agree Sports as I knew it back in the 60's is different than now it is more commercial and those that excel are worshiped, I agree that is wrong.

The Sports themselve aren't the problem its what we have done to them. There is nothing more fun for a kid to go outside jump on their skateboard, or their bikes, or go to a field and play soccer, baseball, basketball, football, field hockey, tag football, or just run and jump till they are exhausted that's sports to me just fun.

[QUOTE]In the next paragraph of her post, Carla spoke of sports as a way forward. I certainly can see Carla's point in the advancement of civil rights for females and people of color in America. I agree with what she said too, but I can't see sports providing any more forward steps as it has already. So, has sports served its purpose and is it time for sports to take more of a back seat roll? I believe it is. I like sports and am a devoted baseball fan, but I like and focus on the sport itself rather than the fallible participants whom play it. Though I must admit each year it gets more difficult to remain interested. I think its my age. [/QUOTE]

[Ahso!]

CARLA;1273484 wrote: I agree movement can be an illusion as most of what we see is an illusion. :-2

I will agree Sports as I knew it back in the 60's is different than now it is more commercial and those that excel are worshiped, I agree that is wrong.



The Sports themselve aren't the problem its what we have done to them. There is nothing more fun for a kid to go outside jump on their skateboard, or their bikes, or go to a field and play soccer, baseball, basketball, football, field hockey, tag football, or just run and jump till they are exhausted that's sports to me just fun.And what I think we've done with them is create this myth around them - the sports themselves that is.

When adults spend hours on end trying to hit a little ball "just right" rather than using those hours making their relationships "just right" it begs for introspective analysis. When adults spend the week thinking about a winning touchdown or a great catch in center field, theres something wrong. Because we here in the U.S. see almost everyone doing it obsessively we think its okay and normal. When we joke about others thinking its not normal behavior and laugh about it, we're hiding something and when we teach our children that competition is more important than peace, we're in serious trouble.

Quite honestly, we really don't have the time we're spending on these games. Our children are having babies way too early, the age of puberty is decreasing, obesity is rising, war is being waged, the climate may be collapsing, cancer is out of control and our drinking water is poisoned, and all this is happening NOT because we're not playing enough sports.

We'd better lessen our dependency of the drugs called sports and religion and get connected to these issues.

I'd really rather not sound like a prophet of doom, but seriously, the future doesn't look real bright for those coming after us.

[K.Snyder]

"Time" is a man made invention to accommodate society. Without "thought" you don't have "time". "Thought" is merely an interpretation from one part of the body to another. Those physical aspects of the body are derived from atoms. The very same atoms that will be present in The Universe when anyone/anything "dies" proving the first, or quintessentially, The Universe is "time".

This observation proves that the "future" is entirely dependent on what we as human beings like to define as an "educated guess". What this also proves is that one interpreting "death" as being "the end" cannot be credible in the least given the fact they hadn't experienced it. All of this perfectly defining the question "Where are we going?" as being unmotivated until having gotten "somewhere else", proving the second, or quintessentially, "thought" is remembrance.

All of these observations prove that The Universe is entirely dependent upon one's interpretation proving that the third and fourth gives credence to the fifth, being "The Universe is "time"".

Ultimately "Where are we going?" need not ever be asked until we realize we're "somewhere different" than where "we've been", and considering we as human beings are made up of the atoms within The Universe we cannot possibly be anywhere different than where we've began ultimately proving the last, or quintessentially ""Where are we going?" need not ever be asked"

Next lesson tomorrow at 5pm SHARP! :yh_wait I do hope you're here because you'll not have an excuse proved by "we as human beings are made up of the atoms within The Universe we cannot possibly be anywhere different" :yh_wink

[CARLA]

Dang I hope the Chargers win the Super Bowl before it all ends in doom and gloom. :-6

[Ahso!]

CARLA;1273527 wrote: Dang I hope the Chargers win the Super Bowl before it all ends in doom and gloom. :-6If that's what you're hoping for, Carla, I'm with you! You're a nice person!:-6

[Elone]

Ahso!;1273462 wrote: I pulled this from another thread.

Carla's sentence which is quoted above assumes a destination. Moving forward to where or what? Is where we are headed a place of rest?


I think it is man’s destiny to move forward, even if that movement is toward calamity. As animals half of us started out as a sperm that swam tirelessly onward, never ceasing to reach our goal, striving always to get there first. I find it hard to believe that the sperm knew where it was going or even why. It just had this innate drive to move forward. Out of the womb, I believe we retain that innate drive to move forward more so than any other animal, to make new things and now, alter our environment, for better or worse. I don’t believe it really matters what the consequences are as long as we can change it we do. I also believe that we do not have the ability to stop this desire to move forward.

Where are we headed? Let’s hope it is toward a perception and comprehension of the nature and significance of our actions.

[spot]

Elone;1288834 wrote: I think it is man’s destiny to move forward, even if that movement is toward calamity. As animals half of us started out as a sperm that swam tirelessly onward, never ceasing to reach our goal
I hesitate to introduce Biology 101 to an often lackadaisical forum membership but I think you'll find the proportion's significantly higher than that.

[Ahso!]

Elone;1288834 wrote: I think it is man’s destiny to move forward, even if that movement is toward calamity. As animals half of us started out as a sperm that swam tirelessly onward, never ceasing to reach our goal, striving always to get there first. I find it hard to believe that the sperm knew where it was going or even why. It just had this innate drive to move forward. Out of the womb, I believe we retain that innate drive to move forward more so than any other animal, to make new things and now, alter our environment, for better or worse. I don’t believe it really matters what the consequences are as long as we can change it we do. I also believe that we do not have the ability to stop this desire to move forward.

Where are we headed? Let’s hope it is toward a perception and comprehension of the nature and significance of our actions.That's interesting, Elone, I didn't consider it like that. As sperm we also swim against the tide or upstream like Salmon, isn't that accurate?

So, is it in our DNA or genes to resist nature? Is humans course of calamity inevitable? Does our consciousness give us a way out?

Thanks for the thought provoking post and reviving this thread.

[theia]

I love this thread :-6 And special thanks to spot and K. I can't even begin to respond but I love it :-6

[Saint_]

Ahso!;1273503 wrote:

Quite honestly, we really don't have the time we're spending on these games. Our children are having babies way too early, the age of puberty is decreasing, obesity is rising, war is being waged, the climate may be collapsing, cancer is out of control and our drinking water is poisoned, and all this is happening NOT because we're not playing enough sports..


Actually, we invented sports to DISTRACT us from all that stuff!:D

Seriously, can you imagine how boring and sterile the world would be without the escape of sports and games?:-3

[K.Snyder]

spot;1288861 wrote: I hesitate to introduce Biology 101 to an often lackadaisical forum membership but I think you'll find the proportion's significantly higher than that.


:wah:

Besides, it's not exactly a compliment given the egg is the largest cell in the human body!

[K.Snyder]

Elone;1288834 wrote: I find it hard to believe that the sperm knew where it was going or even why. It just had this innate drive to move forward. Out of the womb, I believe we retain that innate drive to move forward more so than any other animal, to make new things and now, alter our environment, for better or worse. I don’t believe it really matters what the consequences are as long as we can change it we do. I also believe that we do not have the ability to stop this desire to move forward.

Where are we headed? Let’s hope it is toward a perception and comprehension of the nature and significance of our actions.


Sperm have an innate sense of smell!

[Elone]

Ahso!;1288959 wrote:

As sperm we also swim against the tide or upstream like Salmon, isn't that accurate?


Yes, that is how I see it. I find it very curious that in this Universe anyway, what is true in a microscopic situation often holds true in macroscopic ones too. Like the sperm/salmon swimming for procreation, electrons orbiting the nucleus/planets orbiting the sun/galaxies orbiting black holes. Could it be possible that the Universe is orbiting around something also?

Ahso!;1288959 wrote: Is humans course of calamity inevitable?
Man appears to be a linear thinker by default. This form of thinking seems to be a ‘means to an end of and by itself’. An addiction, if you will allow that comparison. It doesn’t seem to offer any outside options until calamity is at hand.



Ahso!;1288959 wrote: Does our consciousness give us a way out?
I believe our consciousness is the only way out. But how does a linear thinking society alter global consciousness? The concept is too complex for linear thinking and still leave some semblance of individuality and multicultural diversity.



Ahso!;1288959 wrote: So, is it in our DNA or genes to resist nature?
This is the ultimate question! Evolution? Or Intelligent Design?

If it is a gene or in our DNA, why was man the only animal cursed with it? Every other animal on this planet, that I am aware of, lives in harmony with its environment.

Intelligent Designers say, “yes, it is in our DNA”.

[Ahso!]

I'm thinking my use of "DNA" may have caused confusion regarding reproduction.

Intelligent design? Isn't even an option!

For those who chose to believe that one, they lack the ability to 1) exhibit intelligence and 2) produce the "designer". Until number "2" is met and the "designer" steps forward, number "1" cannot be met. That's as simple as that gets.

Evolution on the other hand is there for all to witness and see.

What makes you think that every part of our being other than the brain has a certain makeup? The same process that developed our legs say, is the process that developed our brains. its the same formation.

We know of course that the reason the sperm swims against the odds is so the strongest, most healthy sperm makes it to the egg. (Darwinian competition)

AS for the idea that other animal species would or do live in harmony with nature any more than humans, thats just not true. Every species is trying to out survive every other (Darwinian competition). The only difference as I see it is the human being has a larger brain and therefore more capacity to choose to be conscientious, or not. Other species have some more favorable attributes for survival purposes over humans.

I'm trying to make some sense of this: What does one have to do with the other?

The concept is too complex for linear thinking and still leave some semblance of individuality and multicultural diversity.In fact:What does that sentence mean at all?

[Elone]

Ahso!;1289207 wrote: AS for the idea that other animal species would or do live in harmony with nature any more than humans, thats just not true. Every species is trying to out survive every other (Darwinian competition). The only difference as I see it is the human being has a larger brain and therefore more capacity to choose to be conscientious, or not. Other species have some more favorable attributes for survival purposes over humans.


How is a bigger brain an advantage in the evolutionary process when man's brain has threatened the survival of millions of species, including itself. Many scientists feel we are causing one of the biggest extinctions in Earth's history.

We have contaminated our drinking water and the air we breathe. We are using up our natural resources at an alarming rate; how is this behavior beneficial from an evolutionary standpoint?

Ahso!;1289207 wrote: I'm trying to make some sense of this: What does one have to do with the other?

In fact:What does that sentence mean at all?


Linear thinking concerning profits:

1) The outsourcing of American jobs until there aren’t enough good paying jobs left to support the economy.

2) Mortgage banks selling so many interest only loans (pure profit) with balloon payments after four or five years that when they started to default because of the bad economy it was a major factor in causing the current recession.

3) American auto manufacturers insisting on producing gas guzzlers that they lose the largest market share to Toyota when gas prices keep rising.

4) Again, American auto manufacturers refusing to offer electric cars and higher gas mileage cars to American consumers that when this recession hit they would have gone bankrupt except for a government bailout.

Linear thinking is only thinking about one thing, say profits in this example, without taking a good look at the consequences.

What that sentence means is that in the quest for profits we have Westernized Japan and all but eliminated its 1,000+ year culture. In the quest for profits we have clear cut rain forests and westernized most of the inhabitants of those rain forests and have lost forever the many diverse tribes and clans that existed there for hundreds if not thousands of years. In the quest or profits the Spanish explorers all but wiped out the Inca empire. And the list goes on.

Are you saying that evolution is about the last one standing? It looks like, at the rate we are going we will be the last one standing, with our bigger brain of course. How do we evolve further without biodiversity?

[Ahso!]

What I'm getting from you is that you believe some God intended for things to go as you've described above, do I have that correct?

Elone;1289253 wrote: How is a bigger brain an advantage in the evolutionary process when man's brain has threatened the survival of millions of species, including itself. Many scientists feel we are causing one of the biggest extinctions in Earth's history.

We have contaminated our drinking water and the air we breathe. We are using up our natural resources at an alarming rate; how is this behavior beneficial from an evolutionary standpoint?What we do is procreate and survive, thats in our genes. Hence overpopulation and the consequences of it.

The fact that we have the brain we do gives us the ability to reason the situation out. That doesn't mean we will be reasonable, it only means we have the capacity to. Nothing intended for it to be that way, its just how we've evolved. Evolution meaning changed. Had we developed six hands and four mouths or no hands and no mouths, that too would be evolving. Everything evolves, whether that change we determine to be for the better or worse makes no difference. Those species that survive are those that are best equipped and adapted for survival (survival of the fittest).



Elone;1289253 wrote: thinking concerning profits:

1) The outsourcing of American jobs until there aren’t enough good paying jobs left to support the economy.

2) Mortgage banks selling so many interest only loans (pure profit) with balloon payments after four or five years that when they started to default because of the bad economy it was a major factor in causing the current recession.

3) American auto manufacturers insisting on producing gas guzzlers that they lose the largest market share to Toyota when gas prices keep rising.

4) Again, American auto manufacturers refusing to offer electric cars and higher gas mileage cars to American consumers that when this recession hit they would have gone bankrupt except for a government bailout.

Linear thinking is only thinking about one thing, say profits in this example, without taking a good look at the consequences.

What that sentence means is that in the quest for profits we have Westernized Japan and all but eliminated its 1,000+ year culture. In the quest for profits we have clear cut rain forests and westernized most of the inhabitants of those rain forests and have lost forever the many diverse tribes and clans that existed there for hundreds if not thousands of years. In the quest or profits the Spanish explorers all but wiped out the Inca empire. And the list goes on.

Are you saying that evolution is about the last one standing? It looks like, at the rate we are going we will be the last one standing, with our bigger brain of course. How do we evolve further without biodiversity?I understand what linear thinking is. My question was how your thought process came up with:

The concept is too complex for linear thinking and still leave some semblance of individuality and multicultural diversity. The two half's of the sentence didn't mesh for me. They still don't but thats fine.

As it is we've a lot to do and prove to ourselves.

I'm with you on the destructive and greedy behavior we've exhibited up to now.

[K.Snyder]

Elone;1289191 wrote: This is the ultimate question! Evolution? Or Intelligent Design?How ironic! You cannot assume "evolution" is different in any way than "intelligent design" until you discover the truth behind everything, and only then can one be left to presume by the very fact if this happens the entire question becomes reversed. This gives rise to the question to which preceded the other bringing you right back to where you began only at the exact opposite end of the equation! :yh_think *BIRDS CHIRPING!*

Elone;1289191 wrote:

If it is a gene or in our DNA, why was man the only animal cursed with it? Every other animal on this planet, that I am aware of, lives in harmony with its environment.

Intelligent Designers say, “yes, it is in our DNA”. If one were to place two buttons inside a mouse cage with one button releasing carbon dioxide all the while if that mouse presses that particular button it receives a "treat" are you honestly suggesting that mouse won't release carbon dioxide into the atmosphere EVERYTIME!?!??!?