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Post by Accountable »

oscar;1154504 wrote: No? And we don't deserve yours.



I am pissed off with the problems you have caused on this forum and if no-one else will say it to you i will, so don't suddenly start like I shot Bambi and do the hurt act on me.



When i first joined FG, I saw absolutely no problem with the American and British posters, in fact the thought never even occured to me.

It got to a point some weeks back where evey time a British poster dared dis-agree with you, we were accussed of being Anti-American. You then posted a thread saying you were leaving the forum due to Anti-Americanism. Unless you were logging in and watching, you caused mega problems with that thread and as a result, members on here were at each others throats left, right and centre. Due to your thread, The British had to spend the next several weeks protesting that we were not Anti-American and i can tell you some British members were so pissed off with it they stopped posting on American threads. Typical of the Brits we then tried to ease the situation by joking about it and threads appeared such as 'Don't mention the war'. This went on for weeks and even myself who has a skin thicker than a Rhino got sick to death of it. Everything got back to normal recently and everyone was getting on fine. Then you re-appeared.

If you look back over this thread you will see that my argument was with Coberst along with others who consider him to be a spammer on this forum and others. You then came in to defend him because, OH excuse me, I happened to dis-agree with your 'Buddy' and then you post your 'Crap' at me.

All i asked you was 'If i take exception to the suggestion that we should have shown Germany empathy, would you have shown Japan empathy when they bombed Pearl Harbour?' If you can't deal with that and can't answer it, be man enough to say so and not accuse me of giving you crap because i can see your next card will be the Anti-American card that you have pulled so many times before when it doesn't suit you.

Although i've not commented on them, i have been reading posts going between you and Spot. I was of the opinion that Spot was being insensitive but now i can see that it's you and your defense again.

I am not going round this circle of Anti-Americanism by the British any more. It was insulting the last time and it will another insult again. After this post, i am not rising to your bait further and i hope the British do like-wise.

You don't know me, you don't know any of the Brits on here. You have no idea of my familys connection with America and I'm certainly not going to explain it you.

Jimbo was made to feel dreadful by your anti-american thread and your not doing it with me. If my fellow Brits can't see what your doing then they need to wake up.

No-one comes here to insult another Nation. That is all in your head. However, the thread posted by Coberst insulted me and he has not been man enough to come back and explain the question i put to him. You jumped in for him yourself. I shall continue to object if some-one insults me weather they are French, Irish, Chinese or American as they would do if i insulted them. I am not tip-toeing around this forum again to save you the 'I shot Bambi' act.

Just for the record....why don't you actually read my post in reply to Coberst in the beginning. I said that he had insulted million of ALLIED troops which unless your too sensitive to notice, includes America.
Are you done? Do you feel better?



As I said before, I think we agree that empathy would not have changed WWII.



As I said before, you're finding insult where there isn't any. Coberst never said we should have had empathy for Hiter (your misuse of the word). He asked if empathy with Germany, which I took to mean the german people) would have made a difference.



As I said before, I don't deserve your anger, but I see now that it has nothing to do with this thread at all. You were expecting some kind of confrontation and decided to see it here.
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Post by Oscar Namechange »

Accountable;1154748 wrote: Are you done? Do you feel better?



As I said before, I think we agree that empathy would not have changed WWII.



As I said before, you're finding insult where there isn't any. Coberst never said we should have had empathy for Hiter (your misuse of the word). He asked if empathy with Germany, which I took to mean the german people) would have made a difference.



As I said before, I don't deserve your anger, but I see now that it has nothing to do with this thread at all. You were expecting some kind of confrontation and decided to see it here. No, i don't want confrontation. I don't come here to argue.

So, do you want to answer my question and debate it?

If we had shown empathy to Germany, would you have shown empathy to Japan and stopped pearl harbour?
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Post by Accountable »

oscar;1154784 wrote: If we had shown empathy to Germany, would you have shown empathy to Japan and stopped pearl harbour?
If we had done something with Germany that I believe would have made no difference, would I have done the same useless thing with Japan?? No, I don't think so.
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Post by Oscar Namechange »

Accountable;1154801 wrote: If we had done something with Germany that I believe would have made no difference, would I have done the same useless thing with Japan?? No, I don't think so.
That's all i asked. Why could Coberst not answer in the same manner?
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Post by Odie »

oscar;1154504 wrote: No? And we don't deserve yours.

I am pissed off with the problems you have caused on this forum and if no-one else will say it to you i will, so don't suddenly start like I shot Bambi and do the hurt act on me.

When i first joined FG, I saw absolutely no problem with the American and British posters, in fact the thought never even occured to me.

It got to a point some weeks back where evey time a British poster dared dis-agree with you, we were accussed of being Anti-American. You then posted a thread saying you were leaving the forum due to Anti-Americanism. Unless you were logging in and watching, you caused mega problems with that thread and as a result, members on here were at each others throats left, right and centre. Due to your thread, The British had to spend the next several weeks protesting that we were not Anti-American and i can tell you some British members were so pissed off with it they stopped posting on American threads. Typical of the Brits we then tried to ease the situation by joking about it and threads appeared such as 'Don't mention the war'. This went on for weeks and even myself who has a skin thicker than a Rhino got sick to death of it. Everything got back to normal recently and everyone was getting on fine. Then you re-appeared.

If you look back over this thread you will see that my argument was with Coberst along with others who consider him to be a spammer on this forum and others. You then came in to defend him because, OH excuse me, I happened to dis-agree with your 'Buddy' and then you post your 'Crap' at me.

All i asked you was 'If i take exception to the suggestion that we should have shown Germany empathy, would you have shown Japan empathy when they bombed Pearl Harbour?' If you can't deal with that and can't answer it, be man enough to say so and not accuse me of giving you crap because i can see your next card will be the Anti-American card that you have pulled so many times before when it doesn't suit you.

Although i've not commented on them, i have been reading posts going between you and Spot. I was of the opinion that Spot was being insensitive but now i can see that it's you and your defense again.

I am not going round this circle of Anti-Americanism by the British any more. It was insulting the last time and it will another insult again. After this post, i am not rising to your bait further and i hope the British do like-wise.

You don't know me, you don't know any of the Brits on here. You have no idea of my familys connection with America and I'm certainly not going to explain it you.

Jimbo was made to feel dreadful by your anti-american thread and your not doing it with me. If my fellow Brits can't see what your doing then they need to wake up.

No-one comes here to insult another Nation. That is all in your head. However, the thread posted by Coberst insulted me and he has not been man enough to come back and explain the question i put to him. You jumped in for him yourself. I shall continue to object if some-one insults me weather they are French, Irish, Chinese or American as they would do if i insulted them. I am not tip-toeing around this forum again to save you the 'I shot Bambi' act.

Just for the record....why don't you actually read my post in reply to Coberst in the beginning. I said that he had insulted million of ALLIED troops which unless your too sensitive to notice, includes America.




just for the record...this once was a happy place to come to.......you spend way to much time insulting and degrading members here.



I am pissed off with the problems you cause.:rolleyes:
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Post by Accountable »

oscar;1154850 wrote: That's all i asked. Why could Coberst not answer in the same manner?
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Post by Oscar Namechange »

Accountable;1154865 wrote:


:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl NICE ONE
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Post by Odie »

Accountable;1154865 wrote:


exactly..........why bother?
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Post by Oscar Namechange »

Odie;1154929 wrote: exactly..........why bother? You have completely missed the point. Think about it for a minute. Who is the person in the picture? Why would Accountable choose this man to post to me out of all the millions he could of chosen from? Why would an American choose to post a picture of an English man? Why would i find his choice so funny?

Brcause it's Gordon Brown for goodness sake. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
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Post by Odie »

oscar;1154938 wrote: You have completely missed the point. Think about it for a minute. Who is the person in the picture? Why would Accountable choose this man to post to me out of all the millions he could of chosen from? Why would an American choose to post a picture of an English man? Why would i find his choice so funny?

Brcause it's Gordon Brown for goodness sake. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:


I know who it is, doesn't everyone?



so why bother?
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Post by Oscar Namechange »

Odie;1155118 wrote: I know who it is, doesn't everyone?



so why bother? Odie, it is very obvious that this thread went to 58 posts before you made a comment. you have not contributed to the debate in question about empathy, you have come in when you 'thought' you could flame Accountable into more verbal raport with me. It won't work. Accountable and i solved our spat as we always do on anything that gets political. That's because we're grown up's.
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Post by Oscar Namechange »

Accountable;1154865 wrote: BTW Acc..... Great picture. He's been seen looking alot like that lately :yh_rotfl
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Post by Odie »

oscar;1155129 wrote: Odie, it is very obvious that this thread went to 58 posts before you made a comment. you have not contributed to the debate in question about empathy, you have come in when you 'thought' you could flame Accountable into more verbal raport with me. It won't work. Accountable and i solved our spat as we always do on anything that gets political. That's because we're grown up's.


afraid your wrong again......you had again degraded and insulted folks here.;)
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Post by Oscar Namechange »

Odie;1155132 wrote: afraid your wrong again......you had again degraded and insulted folks here.;) So why did you wait until 58 posts to come in? Acc and I have said what we wanted. There is no reason to continue this unless you want to make a comment on Coberst's point of view on empathy. I suspect you do not. There-fore you can 'play' with some-one else.
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Post by Odie »

oscar;1155137 wrote: So why did you wait until 58 posts to come in? Acc and I have said what we wanted. There is no reason to continue this unless you want to make a comment on Coberst's point of view on empathy. I suspect you do not. There-fore you can 'play' with some-one else.


funny......I wasn't counting posts.......I had just seen the one actually where you degraded and insulted a member here.........

good you think your an adult.......adults don't do that.:rolleyes:

I will go now, as I have much better things to do.

carry on, as I know you must get the last word in.
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Post by Oscar Namechange »

Odie;1155141 wrote: funny..........I wasn't counting posts.......I had just seen the one actually where you degraded and insulted a member here.........

good you think your an adult.......adults don't do that.:rolleyes:

I will go now, as I have much better things to do. Funny how you seem to 'pop' up when ever there is a spat on a thread. If Acc or any of the many members on this thread over the past 36 hours were offended by my post at the time they would have raised it by now.
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Post by Odie »

oscar;1155143 wrote: Funny how you seem to 'pop' up when ever there is a spat on a thread. If Acc or any of the many members on this thread over the past 36 hours were offended by my post at the time they would have raised it by now.


a spat?

Is that what you call bashing people?

as my post said, but you never added it in, you always have to get the last word in.;)

tsk tsk.
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Post by Oscar Namechange »

coberst;1154204 wrote: Is Hitler’s Germany a result of subhuman behavior?

I have recently watched “The Nazis: A Warning from History”. This series of DVDs makes it perfectly clear that the Germany population were handmaidens of Hitler. Hitler and the civilian population had a symbiotic relationship that provides the embodiment of the Freudian theory of transference on both the individual and on the group level.

Freud was the first to focus upon the phenomenon of a patient’s inclination to transfer the feelings s/he had toward her parents as a child to the physician. The patient distorts the perception of the physician; s/he enlarges the figure up far out of reason and becomes dependent upon him. In this transference of feeling, which the patient had for his parents, to the physician the grown person displays all the characteristics of the child at heart, a child who distorts reality in order to relieve his helplessness and fears.

Freud saw these transference phenomena as the form of human suggestibility that makes the control over another, as displayed by hypnosis, as being possible. Hypnosis seems mysterious and mystifying to us only because we hide our slavish need for authority from our self. We live the big lie, which lay within this need to submit our self slavishly to another, because we want to think of our self as self-determined and independent in judgment and choice.

The predisposition to hypnosis is identical to that which gives rise to transference and it is characteristic of all sapiens. We could not function as adults if we retained this submissive attitude to our parents, however, this attitude of submissiveness, as noted by Ferenczi, is “The need to be subject to someone remains; only the part of the father is transferred to teachers, superiors, impressive personalities; the submissive loyalty to rulers that is so widespread is also a transference of this sort.”

Freud saw immediately that when caught up in groups wo/man became dependent children once again. They abandoned their individual egos for that of the leader; they identified with their leader and proceeded to function with him as their ideal. Freud identified man, not as a herd animal but as a horde (teeming crowd) animal that is led by a chief. Wo/man has an insatiable need for authority.

People have an insatiable need to be hypnotized by authority; they seek a magical protection as when they were infants protected by their mother. This is the force that acts to hold groups together, intertwined within a mutually constructed but often mindless interdependence. This mindless group think also builds a feeling of potency. The members feel a sense of unity within the grasp of their leadership.

What do the following entities have in common: fascism, capitalism, communism, political parties, and religions? They all have a common characteristic that can be called “group mind”.

What is striking is that members of these entities often undergo a major change in behavior just by being members of such entities. Under certain conditions individuals who become members of these groups behave differently than they would as individuals. These individuals acquire the characteristics of a ‘psychological group’.

What is the nature of the ‘group mind’, i.e. the mental changes such individuals undergo as a result of becoming a group?

A bond develops much like cells which constitute a living body—group mind is more of an unconscious than a conscious force—there are motives for action that elude conscious attention—distinctiveness and individuality become group behavior based upon unconscious motives—there develops a sentiment of invincible power, anonymous and irresponsible attitudes--repressions of unconscious forces under normal situations are ignored—conscience which results from social anxiety disappear.

Contagion sets in—hypnotic order becomes prevalent—individuals sacrifice personal interest for the group interest.

Suggestibility, of which contagion is a symptom, leads to the lose of conscious personality—the individual follows suggestions for actions totally contradictory to person conscience—hypnotic like fascination sets in—will and discernment vanishes—direction is taken from the leader in an hypnotic like manner—the conscious personality disappears.

“Moreover, by the mere fact that he forms part of an organized group, a man descends several rungs in the ladder of civilization.” Isolated, he may be a cultivated individual; in a crowd, he is a barbarian—a creature acting by instinct. “He possesses the spontaneity, the violence, the ferocity, and also the enthusiasm and heroism of primitive beings.”

There is a lowering of intellectual ability “pointing to its similarity with the mental life of primitive people and of children…A group is credulous and easily influenced”—the improbable seldom exists—they think in images—feelings are very simple and exaggerated—the group knows neither doubt nor uncertainty—extremes are prevalent, antipathy becomes hate and suspicion becomes certainty.

Force is king—force is respected and obeyed without question—kindness is weakness—tradition is triumphant—words have a magical power—supernatural powers are easily accepted—groups never thirst for truth, they demand illusions—the unreal receives precedence over the real—the group is an obedient herd—prestige is a source for domination, however it “is also dependent upon success, and is lost in the event of failure”.

‘Why are groups so blind and stupid?’ Freud asked; and he replied that mankind lived by self delusion. They “constantly give what is unreal precedence over what is real.” The real world is too frightening to behold; delusion changes this by making sapiens seem important. This explains the terrible sadism we see in group activity.

I do not wish to admit it but Hitler’s Germany resulted from normal humans acting like normal humans.Quotes are from Freud and his book “Group Psychology and the Analysis of the Ego”. I discovered that Freud had turned to the Frenchman Gustave Le Bon for empirical data on group behavior.

Gustave Le Bon was a French social psychologist, sociologist, and amateur physicist. His work on crowd psychology became important in the first half of the twentieth century. Le Bon was one of the great popularizers of theories of the unconscious at a critical moment in the formation of new theories of sociology. This is where we agree. The Nazi Party was formed by like-minded people. Once formed, they were able to instill the fear and intimidation to the population of Germany. I do not believe that if any nation had been empathetic to the Germans, there would not have been the war. The fear of Nazi germany was enough for civilised Germans to follow suit from self preservation.
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Post by Devonin »

The situation that led to the rise of the Nazi party in the first place almost certainly wouldn't have existed if the rest of the Western nations involved in the first world war hadn't so brutally punished Germany for its actions in that conflict.

Many historians don't even view these two wars as seperate, but one larger conflict with a cease-fire in the middle.

Empathy for the plight of the Germans before the second world war started would have had to involve empathizing with their collpasing economy, degrading status as a major power in the world, and frankly brutal and quite overcompensatory punishment as part of the treaty of Versailles. And since it was the very countries that are supposed to be 'empathizing' with them that created the situation in which they found themselves, I somehow doubt that any degree of empathy would have led to the lifting of any of the restrictions and punishments that had been levelled on them.
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Post by Oscar Namechange »

Devonin;1155409 wrote: The situation that led to the rise of the Nazi party in the first place almost certainly wouldn't have existed if the rest of the Western nations involved in the first world war hadn't so brutally punished Germany for its actions in that conflict.

Many historians don't even view these two wars as seperate, but one larger conflict with a cease-fire in the middle.

Empathy for the plight of the Germans before the second world war started would have had to involve empathizing with their collpasing economy, degrading status as a major power in the world, and frankly brutal and quite overcompensatory punishment as part of the treaty of Versailles. And since it was the very countries that are supposed to be 'empathizing' with them that created the situation in which they found themselves, I somehow doubt that any degree of empathy would have led to the lifting of any of the restrictions and punishments that had been levelled on them.


I disagree with you.The Great war was split into two military alliences., The 'Entente Powers' and the 'Central Powers.

War broke out due to the assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria by a Bosnian-Serb.

Austria-Hungary's demands led to the upstart of a series of alliances and within weeks, Europe was at war.

Austria-Hungary declared war on Serbia 28th July 1914.

Russia, then bound by treaty to Serbia used it's military to defend.

Germany allied to Austria-Hungary by treaty saw Russia's defence of Serbia as an act of war against Austria-Hungary.

In turn, Germany declared war on Russia.

France bound by treaty to Russia then found it's self at war with Germany.

Germany Invaded Belgium to reach paris.

Britain allied to France and there we can go on and on.

The cause of WW1 is more down to a serie's of alliances not treatment of citizens.

WW11 .... Simple..... Germany invaded Poland.
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Post by Devonin »

I disagree with you.The Great war was split into two military alliences., The 'Entente Powers' and the 'Central Powers.

War broke out due to the assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria by a Bosnian-Serb.

Austria-Hungary's demands led to the upstart of a series of alliances and within weeks, Europe was at war.

Austria-Hungary declared war on Serbia 28th July 1914.

Russia, then bound by treaty to Serbia used it's military to defend.

Germany allied to Austria-Hungary by treaty saw Russia's defence of Serbia as an act of war against Austria-Hungary.

In turn, Germany declared war on Russia.

France bound by treaty to Russia then found it's self at war with Germany.

Germany Invaded Belgium to reach paris.

Britain allied to France and there we can go on and on.


For one, I didn't say anything about what caused the first world war, so rhyming off the highschool litany of 'what caused the war' doesn't actually demonstrate a disagreement with anything I said.

For two, there is a LOT more behind the actual causes of the first world war than "The assassination of the archduke" I won't go into detail there unless you would like me to, but the assassination primarily provided Germany with a really useful goad to force the hand of the Austro-hungarians to antagonize Russia and the Pan-Serbian movement.

WW11 .... Simple..... Germany invaded Poland.
For three, you also seem to be under some strange misapprehensions about the "causes" of the second world war as well. After the treaty of Versailles, Germany was forced under crushing reparation debt, forced to publically accept all blame for the conflict, destroy its military complex, and agree to never build one up. Among other things, the basic consequences of those terms were a thorough collapse of the Weimar republic's economy, and deep feelings of guilt and shame among the German people.

The reason the Nazi party was able to come to power so easily was their willingness to strongly and proactively address the major issues in the nation. They brought about new nationalist feelings, recovered the economy, and shelved the terms of the Treaty of Versailles and began building up a military complex again, giving a surge to both the economy and national pride. From that point, some public manipulation through scapegoating was enough to pretty much put Germany in a position of champing at the bit to get some back from the countries that tried so hard to destroy them after the first world war ended.

In fact, as I said, a reasonably large minority of historians who deal with the history of the world war era in europe, tend to want to treat it as one larger conflict due to the degree by which the "causes" of the second world war can be traced back to root "causes" created by the first world war and its aftermath. Had there been no first world war, it is pretty much a given than the second world war wouldn't have happened on its own.
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Post by Accountable »

:yh_glasse That's true. You can't have a II without a I. :yh_giggle Sorry, couldn't resist.



So you seem to be saying (correct me if I'm wrong) that empathy coming out of WWI might indeed have prevented WWII. The punishment was so humiliating that it was made easy for Hitler to step in, is that right?
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Post by coberst »

Accountable;1155605 wrote: :yh_glasse That's true. You can't have a II without a I. :yh_giggle Sorry, couldn't resist.



So you seem to be saying (correct me if I'm wrong) that empathy coming out of WWI might indeed have prevented WWII. The punishment was so humiliating that it was made easy for Hitler to step in, is that right?


Devonin is correct.
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Post by Devonin »

Accountable;1155605 wrote: :yh_glasse That's true. You can't have a II without a I. :yh_giggle Sorry, couldn't resist.



So you seem to be saying (correct me if I'm wrong) that empathy coming out of WWI might indeed have prevented WWII. The punishment was so humiliating that it was made easy for Hitler to step in, is that right?


That is indeed what I'm saying. If it weren't Hitler it would have been someone else, if it weren't the Jews it would have been someone else. At that point in Germany, pretty much anybody coming forward with a way for the country to get back on its feet and get its national pride back would have found widespread support from the people.

The fact that his message was heavily canted towards "It's not us, it's them" made it that much more popular.
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Post by Oscar Namechange »

Devonin;1155590 wrote: For one, I didn't say anything about what caused the first world war, so rhyming off the highschool litany of 'what caused the war' doesn't actually demonstrate a disagreement with anything I said.

. Your post was lost on me. you seem to have started your post with an insult.

Did you or your family actually ever serve in either war? As i suspect not.
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Post by Devonin »

Your post was lost on me. you seem to have started your post with an insult. .

You said "I disagree" and then provided a timeline for the events leading up to the outbreak of the first world war. Since the post you were responding to said not a single solitary thing about the events leading up to the outbreak of the first world war, I pointed out that nothing in your response could actually be treated as a disagreement with what I said, because it referred only to things I didn't say.

Did you or your family actually ever serve in either war? As I suspect notWell, this is a very nice example of why we don't assume things. Several members of my family fought in both world wars in multiple theatres of the conflicts. I have a great deal of personal connection to and respect for their contributions in those wars, and could show you my great grandfather's war medals if you'd really like to see them.

However, whether or not any member of my family had anything to do with fighting in the wars is so completely irellevant to anything I've said about the historical truths of the war era, that I'm at a bit of a loss as to why you'd try to bring that in. Are you seriously going to suggest that if I have no personal experiences with the wars that my statements about the wars are invalid?
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Post by Oscar Namechange »

Devonin;1155759 wrote: .

You said "I disagree" and then provided a timeline for the events leading up to the outbreak of the first world war. Since the post you were responding to said not a single solitary thing about the events leading up to the outbreak of the first world war, I pointed out that nothing in your response could actually be treated as a disagreement with what I said, because it referred only to things I didn't say.

Well, this is a very nice example of why we don't assume things. Several members of my family fought in both world wars in multiple theatres of the conflicts. I have a great deal of personal connection to and respect for their contributions in those wars, and could show you my great grandfather's war medals if you'd really like to see them.

However, whether or not any member of my family had anything to do with fighting in the wars is so completely irellevant to anything I've said about the historical truths of the war era, that I'm at a bit of a loss as to why you'd try to bring that in. Are you seriously going to suggest that if I have no personal experiences with the wars that my statements about the wars are invalid?
So due my simply saying 'I disagree' that leaves you to make a remark about highschool text being used.?

No i wouldn't like to see your grandfathers medals as i can look at my own families especially my fathers who by the way was a Spitfire Pilot.

I am suggesting that you are refering to 'Highschool text' just as anyone one else may.
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Post by Devonin »

So due my simply saying 'I disagree' that leaves you to make a remark about highschool text being used.?


I referred to your list of the process as the "highschool litany" of the causes of the war, because that's pretty much the exact version that is presented in highschool history about the process that led to the war.

No i wouldn't like to see your grandfathers medals as i can look at my own families especially my fathers who by the way was a Spitfire Pilot.Which, once again, while admirable is completely irellevant to anything we're discussing in this thread.

I am suggesting that you are refering to 'Highschool text' just as anyone one else may. Then you're suggesting incorrectly. Though yet again, you might try addressing the statements that I made, instead of trying to suggest that I'm unqualified to make the statements.
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Devonin;1155765 wrote: I referred to your list of the process as the "highschool litany" of the causes of the war, because that's pretty much the exact version that is presented in highschool history about the process that led to the war.

Which, once again, while admirable is completely irellevant to anything we're discussing in this thread.

Then you're suggesting incorrectly. Though yet again, you might try addressing the statements that I made, instead of trying to suggest that I'm unqualified to make the statements.
I couldn't give a rat's butt weather you think my fathers actions are 'admirable' or not. I am quite certain that my father did not defend his country so fearlessly just to impress you or anyone else. The only reason i mentioned the fact was because you seemed to throw in so readily the irrelevant fact that your grandfather had medals.

As i skipped your posts.... I shall go back over them and see what you are trying to say.
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Post by Devonin »

I couldn't give a rat's butt weather you think my fathers actions are 'admirable' or not. I am quite certain that my father did not defend his country so fearlessly just to impress you or anyone else. The only reason i mentioned the fact was because you seemed to throw in so readily the irrelevant fact that your grandfather had medals.


I pointed out that I was in possession of my grandfather's medals in direct response to you snidely suggesting that you "figured" nobody in my family had ever served in the wars. It was not irellevant when it was in direct response to something you said. Your statements that have had nothing to do with anything in -my- posts have been the irellevant ones.

As i skipped your posts.... I shall go back over them and see what you are trying to say. If you aren't going to read what people say, don't respond to them.
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Devonin;1155756 wrote: That is indeed what I'm saying. If it weren't Hitler it would have been someone else, if it weren't the Jews it would have been someone else. At that point in Germany, pretty much anybody coming forward with a way for the country to get back on its feet and get its national pride back would have found widespread support from the people.



The fact that his message was heavily canted towards "It's not us, it's them" made it that much more popular.
So to bring it back to Coberst's question, the empathy would have been virtually useless in the 30's, and in 1914. Rather, empathy would have been needed in 1918 to have a hope to prevent WWII.
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Post by Oscar Namechange »

Devonin;1155774 wrote: I pointed out that I was in possession of my grandfather's medals in direct response to you snidely suggesting that you "figured" nobody in my family had ever served in the wars. It was not irellevant when it was in direct response to something you said. Your statements that have had nothing to do with anything in -my- posts have been the irellevant ones.

If you aren't going to read what people say, don't respond to them. There is your problem..... your assumptions. You 'assumed' i was talking Highschool text which for the record incase you are unaware of the education system here, we do not have Highschools. :rolleyes: You then 'assume' that i 'figured' that nobody in your family had served in the wars. I did not 'figure', i asked.

You also appear to not be taking in what i am saying. You have come in with another post when i have just posted that i would read your previous posts as i skipped them. When i have done that in my time.... not yours, i will answer your posts.
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Post by Devonin »

oscar;1155778 wrote: There is your problem..... your assumptions. You 'assumed' i was talking Highschool text which for the record incase you are unaware of the education system here, we do not have Highschools. :rolleyes: Okay, so your issue is one of semantics, I used the wrong word. Let me rephrase: Secondary school text.

You then 'assume' that i 'figured' that nobody in your family had served in the wars. I did not 'figure', i asked.Actually, what you said was, and I quote: "Did you or your family actually ever serve in either war? As i suspect not." So perhaps you can see how I might conclude that you thought they hadn't. Since, you know, you explicitly said you suspected they hadn't.

You also appear to not be taking in what i am saying. You have come in with another post when i have just posted that i would read your previous posts as i skipped them. When i have done that in my time.... not yours, i will answer your posts.I responded to a post you made. Among other things you said you were going to go back and read what I said, I could and did still respond to the content of that post, including the part where you said you hadn't been reading my posts, though all the while you've been responding to my posts with things that have nothing to do with the substantive content of anything I've been saying.
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Post by Devonin »

Accountable;1155777 wrote: So to bring it back to Coberst's question, the empathy would have been virtually useless in the 30's, and in 1914. Rather, empathy would have been needed in 1918 to have a hope to prevent WWII.


1918 and 1919, especially during the formulation of the treaty at the end of hostilities.
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Post by Oscar Namechange »

Devonin;1155784 wrote: Okay, so your issue is one of semantics, I used the wrong word. Let me rephrase: Secondary school text.

Actually, what you said was, and I quote: "Did you or your family actually ever serve in either war? As i suspect not." So perhaps you can see how I might conclude that you thought they hadn't. Since, you know, you explicitly said you suspected they hadn't.

I responded to a post you made. Among other things you said you were going to go back and read what I said, I could and did still respond to the content of that post, including the part where you said you hadn't been reading my posts, though all the while you've been responding to my posts with things that have nothing to do with the substantive content of anything I've been saying. :wah: Blimey mate.... you do type quick :wah:
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