Understanding Stuff

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coberst
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Understanding Stuff

Post by coberst »

Understanding stuff

I imagine comprehension to be a hierarchy, resembling a pyramid, with awareness at the base followed by consciousness, succeeded by knowing, with understanding at the pinnacle.

I am a retired engineer and my experience in the natural sciences leads me to conclude that these natural sciences are far more concerned with knowing than with understanding.

Understanding is a long step beyond knowing and most often knowing provides the results that technology demands. Technology, I think, does not want understanding because understanding is inefficient and generally not required. The natural scientist, with their paradigms, is puzzle solvers. Puzzles require ingenuity but seldom understanding.

I have for some time been interested in trying to understand what ‘understand’ means. I have reached the conclusion that ‘curiosity then caring’ is the first steps toward understanding. Without curiosity we care for nothing. Once curiosity is in place then caring becomes necessary for understanding.

I suspect our first experience with ‘understanding’ may be our first friendship. I think that this first friendship may be an example of what Carl Sagan meant by “Understanding is a kind of ecstasy”.

I also suspect that the boy who falls in love with automobiles and learns everything he can about repairing the junk car he bought has discovered ‘understanding’.

I suspect many people go their complete life and never have an intellectual experience that culminates in the “ecstasy of understanding”. How can this be true? I think that our educational system is designed primarily for filling heads with knowledge and hasn’t time to waste on ‘understanding’.

Understanding an intellectual matter must come in the adult years if it is to ever come to many of us. I think that it is very important for an adult to find something intellectual that will excite his or her curiosity and concern sufficiently so as to motivate the effort necessary to understand.

Understanding does not come easily but it can be “a kind of ecstasy”.

I think of understanding as being a creation of meaning by the thinker. As one attempts to understand something that person will construct through imagination a model--like a papier-mâché--of the meaning. Like an artist painting her understanding of something. As time goes by the model takes on what the person understands about that which is studied. The model is very subjective and you and I may study something for some time and we both have learned to understand it but if it were possible to project an image of our model they would be unidentifiable perhaps by the other. Knowledge has a universal quality but not understanding.
koan
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Understanding Stuff

Post by koan »

I think a good analogy would be the climbing of a mountain. The understanding occurs when one reaches the peak and can look down, clearly seeing the journey one has taken to arrive and understand how all the nooks and crannies were developed. Knowledge is the journey to the peak each nook and cranny being a separate piece of the whole. One segment leads to the next which eventually leads to the peak but until one gets there the complete picture is only one of the imagination.

Some people prefer to climb only one section of the mountain, for a day of pleasure instead of taking on the entire mountain, and there is nothing wrong with that. If they climb a different section each time, eventually they will get an idea of what the whole mountain is like. Conversely, if a climber goes straight to the pinnacle they may miss a few details on the way that are not visible from the peak and so, in their rush, miss a number of fascinating details.

If the one who reaches the pinnacle allows that those who have just climbed parts of the mountain may have valuable information than everyone can share their experiences and all benefit.
koan
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Understanding Stuff

Post by koan »

I doubt there is a patent on pyramidical hierarchy building. It does sound interesting in an Erik Erikson kind of way, but is there any reason we can't discuss either in a philosophical or metaphysical way?
koan
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Understanding Stuff

Post by koan »

OK. Here it is for submission: Benjamin Bloom's phases of learning.

1. Knowledge or recall of data, expresses the natural urge to recall previously learned material. So knowledge, or being told, can be a foundation for very much learning. It provides a basis for higher levels of thinking, but is rote in nature. Insight rides on top of it.

2. Comprehension, the ability to grasp meaning, explain, restate ideas, means understanding the basic information and translating, interpreting, and extrapolating it.

3. Application, or using learned material in new situations, involves using information, ideas, and skills to solve problems, then selecting and applying them appropriately.

4. Analysis suggests separating items, or separate material into component parts and show relationships between parts. It also means breaking apart information and ideas into their component parts.

5. Synthesis suggests the ability to put together separate ideas to form new wholes of a fabric, or establish new relationships. Synthesis involves putting together ideas and knowledge in a new and unique form. This is where innovations truly take place.

6. Evaluation is the highest level in this arrangement. Here the ability to judge the worth of material against stated criteria will show itself. Evaluation involves reviewing and asserting evidence, facts, and ideas, then making appropriate statements and judgements.

There is nothing wrong with adding this to the discussion. It was the "I think you're both making a bit much of something that's pretty straightforward." part that I was wondering at. Bloom does us four steps further, 3-6 being what one does with the info gathered from climbing the mountain and arriving at the top.
koan
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Understanding Stuff

Post by koan »

Diuretic wrote: I tend to be somewhat undiplomatic at times, I should have chosen my words more carefully for sure.


No issues here either. Do you see much difference between knowledge and understanding? I've had a great debate on the difference between knowledge and wisdom elsewhere recently and over which comes first chicken or the egg.
koan
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Understanding Stuff

Post by koan »

You're missing the "AHA" that goes between learning something and understanding it. You can apply knowledge without knowing why it works. The fascinating part is the aha.
koan
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Understanding Stuff

Post by koan »

looks like an interesting link. As BR would say, my eyes are currently bleeding from reading the WW3 thread so I'll have to check it out later.

You're seriously telling me you've never been puzzling over something, in math class for example, then suddenly get the aha feeling and know how to a)use the formula and b)why it works?
coberst
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Understanding Stuff

Post by coberst »

I have posted half dozen threads here on understanding. I think it is a very important concept.

I think that it is that tipping point like water to ice, it is that gestalt moment when a portion of ones world view changes. It is like a paradigm shift.

I think most people go through their whole life and never encounter an intellectual understanding. I think people encounter understanding in different formats. The boy who works on a junk car he bought finds that moment of understanding. The first real friend in our life is an understanding.

Knowledge has a universal quality but understanding is meaning we create and my understanding of the same matter is unlike your understanding.
coberst
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Understanding Stuff

Post by coberst »

koan wrote: I think a good analogy would be the climbing of a mountain. The understanding occurs when one reaches the peak and can look down, clearly seeing the journey one has taken to arrive and understand how all the nooks and crannies were developed. Knowledge is the journey to the peak each nook and cranny being a separate piece of the whole. One segment leads to the next which eventually leads to the peak but until one gets there the complete picture is only one of the imagination.

Some people prefer to climb only one section of the mountain, for a day of pleasure instead of taking on the entire mountain, and there is nothing wrong with that. If they climb a different section each time, eventually they will get an idea of what the whole mountain is like. Conversely, if a climber goes straight to the pinnacle they may miss a few details on the way that are not visible from the peak and so, in their rush, miss a number of fascinating details.

If the one who reaches the pinnacle allows that those who have just climbed parts of the mountain may have valuable information than everyone can share their experiences and all benefit.


Koan

Bravo! What a marvelous way for expressing this concept.

I post on these forums because I think that there are many concepts that people are aware of but are not conscious of. Without consciousness knowledge and understanding cannot happen.

Why do you hang around these forums?
coberst
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Understanding Stuff

Post by coberst »

Diuretic wrote: C - are you referring to what is sometimes called "insight"?


I am refering to something like a gestalt switch. With understanding ones world view takes a change. It is a tipping point, water becomes ice, a new paradigm comes into being.
coberst
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Understanding Stuff

Post by coberst »

Sixyear



Looks like Xmas has come early at your house.
koan
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Understanding Stuff

Post by koan »

coberst wrote: Koan

Bravo! What a marvelous way for expressing this concept.

I post on these forums because I think that there are many concepts that people are aware of but are not conscious of. Without consciousness knowledge and understanding cannot happen.

Why do you hang around these forums?


LOL Are we proving your theory?

In answer to your question, I might be a masochist.

Actually, I originally joined while suffering a back injury and being unable to get out of my bed. Now I'm back because I have very few people around me at the moment who can carry on a logical conversation of any depth so I come here when I'm not busy writing a new project. It does provide some good material.
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