September Scholar

[coberst]

I am a retired engineer with a good bit of formal education and twenty five years of self-learning. I began the self-learning experience while in my mid-forties. I had no goal in mind; I was just following my intellectual curiosity in whatever direction it led me. This hobby, self-learning, has become very important to me. I have bounced around from one hobby to another but have always been enticed back by the excitement I have discovered in this learning process. Carl Sagan is quoted as having written; “Understanding is a kind of ecstasy.”

I label myself as a September Scholar because I began the process at mid-life and because my quest is disinterested knowledge.

Disinterested knowledge is an intrinsic value. Disinterested knowledge is not a means but an end. It is knowledge I seek because I desire to know it. I mean the term ‘disinterested knowledge’ as similar to ‘pure research’, as compared to ‘applied research’. Pure research seeks to know truth unconnected to any specific application.

I think of the self-learner of disinterested knowledge as driven by curiosity and imagination to understand. The September Scholar seeks to ‘see’ and then to ‘grasp’ through intellection directed at understanding the self as well as the world. The knowledge and understanding that is sought by the September Scholar are determined only by personal motivations. It is noteworthy that disinterested knowledge is knowledge I am driven to acquire because it is of dominating interest to me. Because I have such an interest in this disinterested knowledge my adrenaline level rises in anticipation of my voyage of discovery.

We often use the metaphors of ‘seeing’ for knowing and ‘grasping’ for understanding. I think these metaphors significantly illuminate the difference between these two forms of intellection. We see much but grasp little. It takes great force to impel us to go beyond seeing to the point of grasping. The force driving us is the strong personal involvement we have to the question that guides our quest. I think it is this inclusion of self-fulfillment, as associated with the question, that makes self-learning so important.

The self-learner of disinterested knowledge is engaged in a single-minded search for understanding. The goal, grasping the ‘truth’, is generally of insignificant consequence in comparison to the single-minded search. Others must judge the value of the ‘truth’ discovered by the autodidactic. I suggest that truth, should it be of any universal value, will evolve in a biological fashion when a significant number of pursuers of disinterested knowledge engage in dialogue.

The experience the September Scholar seeks is solely determined by his or her own internal ‘voice’. The curiosity and imagination of the learner drive the voice. Our formal education system has left most of us with little appreciation or understanding of our own curiosity and imagination. That characteristic so obvious in children has been subdued and, I suspect, stilled to the point that each one attempting this journey of discovery must make a conscious effort to reinvigorate the ‘inner voice’. We must search to ‘hear’ the voice, which is perhaps only a whisper that has become a stranger in our life. But, let me assure you, once freed again that voice will drive the self-learner with the excitement and satisfaction commensurate to any other experience.

I seek disinterested knowledge because I wish to understand. The object of understanding is determined by questions guiding my quest. These guiding questions originate as a result of the force inherent in my curiosity and imagination.

The self-learner must develop the ability to create the questions. We have never before given any thought to questions but now, if we wish to take a journey of discover, we must learn the most important aspect of any educational process. We must create questions that will guide our travels. We can no longer depend upon education by coercion to guide us; we have the opportunity to develop education driven by the “ecstasy to understand”.

I suspect that most parents attempt to motivate their children to make good grades in school so that their child might go to college and live the American Dream. The college degree is a ticket to the land of dreams (where one produces and consumes more than his or her neighbor). I do not wish to praise or to bury this dream. I think there is great value resulting from this mode of education but it is earned at great sacrifice.

The point I wish to pivot on is the fact that higher education in America has become a commodity. To commodify means: to turn (as an intrinsic value or a work of art) into a commodity (an economic good). I would say that the intrinsic value of education is wisdom. It is wisdom that is sacrificed by our comodified higher education system. Our universities produce individuals capable of developing a great technology but lacking the wisdom to manage the world modified by that technology.

I think that there is much to applaud in our higher educational system. It produces graduates that have proven their ability to significantly guide our society into a cornucopia of material wealth. Perhaps, however, like the Midas touch, this gold has a down side. The down side is a paucity of collective wisdom within the society. I consider wisdom to be a sensitive synthesis of broad knowledge, deep understanding and solid judgement. I suggest that if one individual in a thousand, who has passed the age of forty would become a September Scholar, we could significantly replace the wisdom lost by our comodified higher education.

In the United States our culture compels us to have a purpose. Our culture defines that purpose to be ‘maximize production and consumption’. As a result all good children feel compelled to become a successful producer and consumer. All good children, both consciously and unconsciously, organize their life for this journey.

At mid-life many citizens begin to analyze their life and often discover a need to reconstitute their purpose. I suggest, for your consideration, that at mid-life you consider becoming a self-learner. Some of the advantageous of this self-learning experience is that it is virtually free, undeterred by age, not a zero sum game, surprising, exciting and makes each discovery a new eureka moment. The self-learning experience I am suggesting is similar to any other hobby one might undertake; interest will ebb and flow. In my case this was a hobby that I continually came back to after other hobbies lost appeal.

I suggest for your consideration that if we “Get a life—Get an intellectual life” we very well might gain substantially in self-worth and, perhaps, community-worth. As a popular saying goes ‘there is a season for all things’. We might consider that spring and summer are times for gathering knowledge, maximizing production and consumption, and increasing net-worth; while fall and winter are seasons for gathering understanding, creating wisdom and increasing self-worth.

I have been trying to encourage adults, who in general consider education as a matter only for young people, to give this idea of self-learning a try. It seems to be human nature to do a turtle (close the mind) when encountering a new and unorthodox idea. Generally we seem to need for an idea to face us many times before we can consider it seriously. A common method for brushing aside this idea is to think ‘I’ve been there and done that’, i.e. ‘ I have read and been a self-learner all my life’.

It is unlikely that you will encounter this unorthodox suggestion ever again. You must act on this occasion or never act. The first thing is to make a change in attitude about just what is the nature of education. Then one must face the world with a critical outlook. A number of attitude changes are required as a first step. All parents, I guess, recognize the problems inherent in attitude adjustment. We just have to focus that knowledge upon our self as the object needing an attitude adjustment rather than our child.

I am not suggesting a stroll in the park on a Sunday afternoon. I am suggesting a ‘Lewis and Clark Expedition’. I am suggesting the intellectual equivalent of crossing the Mississippi and heading West across unexplored intellectual territory with the intellectual equivalent of the Pacific Ocean as a destination.

[ELF]

I am a December scholar, is it too late for me?

And welcome to FG.

[SOJOURNER]

my quest is disinterested knowledge. . . .

What a lovely journey you are on. I look forward to reading more posts from you.

-SoJo

[BTS]

Chuck Oberst?

Is that you?

[Jives]

coberst wrote: I am a retired engineer with a good bit of formal education and twenty five years of self-learning. I began the self-learning experience while in my mid-forties. I had no goal in mind; I was just following my intellectual curiosity in whatever direction it led me.


Well good for you, Coberst. Kind of "know all that is knowable," eh?

I think of the self-learner of disinterested knowledge as driven by curiosity and imagination to understand.


That's as good a definition as any.

The September Scholar seeks to ‘see’ and then to ‘grasp’ through intellection directed at understanding the self as well as the world.


Understanding yourself and your motives is possible, but what man can comprehend the entire world? Many things are hidden from us. Only by each of us focusing on a single facet, and then sharing our knowledge with future generations, can we eventually succeed in understanding, not only the interaction of all systems and creatures on our planet, but also the unseen mysteries of the other dimensions of this jewel that is the Universe.

Oh. And not to burst your bubble, but that understanding should take mankind over 10,000 years by my approximation. So the best you can hope for is assimilating as much of the current knowledge that you can. (You cannot hold it all) and possibly contributing something original yourself.

Because I have such an interest in this disinterested knowledge my adrenaline level rises in anticipation of my voyage of discovery.


OK, so you like learning. So do I. I am a teacher and the son of teachers. Now quit trying to impress everybody with your vocabulary and talk at a non-formal level. I have a 157 I.Q. and you even lose me from time to time. Are you trying to impress everybody?

The force driving us is the strong personal involvement we have to the question that guides our quest. I think it is this inclusion of self-fulfillment, as associated with the question, that makes self-learning so important.


I agree. Therre is a fulfillment with understanding things and ideas that were previously unknown to you. But knowledge is nothing without application.

I think it's appropriate to quote Dickens at this time of year,

"It is required of every man that the spirit

within him should walk abroad among his

fellow-men, and travel far and wide; and if

that spirit goes not go forth in life, it is

condemned to do so after death. It is

doomed to wander through the world -- oh,

woe is me! -- and witness what it cannot

share, but might have shared on earth, and

turned to happiness!

If you learn everything, but do nothing with your knowledge to help mankind, then the quest was as pointless as a painting in an attic.

I suggest that truth, should it be of any universal value, will evolve in a biological fashion when a significant number of pursuers of disinterested knowledge engage in dialogue.


That's what you are doing right now. "Truth" is evolving, right here, right now, before your eyes. People from distant lands are getting together all over the world via the internet to discourse and argue, to seek and trade information, to make decisions and reach understanding. Sorry, you got here a little late with that idea.

Our formal education system has left most of us with little appreciation or understanding of our own curiosity and imagination.


Bite your blasted tongue! Just where did you get the education that you are currently using to converse here? You seem to be OK, or are you stating that, having been formally educated, you are admitting that you are a failure?

That characteristic so obvious in children has been subdued and, I suspect, stilled to the point that each one attempting this journey of discovery must make a conscious effort to reinvigorate the ‘inner voice’. We must search to ‘hear’ the voice, which is perhaps only a whisper that has become a stranger in our life. But, let me assure you, once freed again that voice will drive the self-learner with the excitement and satisfaction commensurate to any other experience.


LOL. So you want to get in touch with your "inner child"? That's as simple as going outside and rolling in the grass. It's not a deep concept! And speak for yourself, Mr. Jaded, I never lost touch with my innocent, wide-eyed self. To me everything in this world is a miracle, from the clouds to a handful of dirt. I know how to look at it.

We must create questions that will guide our travels. We can no longer depend upon education by coercion to guide us; we have the opportunity to develop education driven by the “ecstasy to understand”.


Try teaching a "love of learning" to kids who have just entered your class from a Methamphetamine home. The bleakness of reality breaks the spirit of youth. Your ideals are high, but they are unrealistic. Now get off your cloud, get back down here on the ground and give me a hand with these kids!

I suspect that most parents attempt to motivate their children to make good grades in school so that their child might go to college and live the American Dream.


The American Dream. You make that sound like a bad thing. Why wouldn't a parent want their children to go to good doctors when they are sick? Wear nice clothes? See the world? Never know poverty? Provide for their children someday?

The college degree is a ticket to the land of dreams (where one produces and consumes more than his or her neighbor).


Pffft. Flat-out wrong, Mr. Cynical. A college degree is a ticket to the ability to stretch the boundries of mankind's knowledge. A ticket to escape the hopelesness and despair of poverty. You, who purport to want knowledge, sarcastically degrade that very knowledge in your own post.

Our universities produce individuals capable of developing a great technology but lacking the wisdom to manage the world modified by that technology.


Says you, Nihilist. Who says that the world is not being managed well? Personally, I see the world as growing and maturing at a fantastic rate. Obviously not fast enough for you, though. Do some research into the technology that is being developed right now. Health care has made great strides, and will make even greater ones in the near future. We are on the verge of a Golden Age of mankind and here you are, wringing your hands over "poor humankind."

I think that there is much to applaud in our higher educational system. It produces graduates that have proven their ability to significantly guide our society into a cornucopia of material wealth.


Thank you.

Perhaps, however, like the Midas touch, this gold has a down side. The down side is a paucity of collective wisdom within the society. I consider wisdom to be a sensitive synthesis of broad knowledge, deep understanding and solid judgement. I suggest that if one individual in a thousand, who has passed the age of forty would become a September Scholar, we could significantly replace the wisdom lost by our comodified higher education.


Aha! Now I've got your number. Just another of the older generation, baying at the moon is desperate plea to return to the "old days." Well, it's not going to happen. The children are remaking the world, and if you don't like it, so what? It's theirs now. It may becoe something completely different than you expect or like, but that is the force of history you are trying to stop, and it's going to run you down like a freight train.

None of the "wisdom" you speak of is lost. Nothing is lost in our civilization. It is all here for the future generations to read. Your generation's "wisdom" (the things you thought were wise) has merely been replaced by a new set of "wisdoms". Maybe you're against Gay Marriage, maybe I am too, but who knows how future generations will feel about it? It's not for us to say. We had our time.

In the United States our culture compels us to have a purpose. Our culture defines that purpose to be ‘maximize production and consumption’. As a result all good children feel compelled to become a successful producer and consumer. All good children, both consciously and unconsciously, organize their life for this journey.


Crap! Is that how you feel? How unbelievably cynical! That wasn't what my parents taught me, nor is it the measure of my life. I live to pass on the lessons of the past, to give the children of the future the mathematical tools they will need to expand humankind, not just across the planet, but across the galaxy!

Dude, your parents really screwed you up if you think material possessions are what matter. Especially at Christmastime!

At mid-life many citizens begin to analyze their life and often discover a need to reconstitute their purpose.


Yeah. It's called a "mid-life" crisis! (snicker)

I suggest, for your consideration, that at mid-life you consider becoming a self-learner. Some of the advantageous of this self-learning experience is that it is virtually free, undeterred by age, not a zero sum game, surprising, exciting and makes each discovery a new eureka moment. The self-learning experience I am suggesting is similar to any other hobby one might undertake; interest will ebb and flow. In my case this was a hobby that I continually came back to after other hobbies lost appeal.


Again, I disagree. Self-learning should take place across the entire lifespan of an individual.

I suggest for your consideration that if we “Get a life—Get an intellectual life” we very well might gain substantially in self-worth and, perhaps, community-worth. As a popular saying goes ‘there is a season for all things’. We might consider that spring and summer are times for gathering knowledge, maximizing production and consumption, and increasing net-worth; while fall and winter are seasons for gathering understanding, creating wisdom and increasing self-worth.


LOL! That's mandatory! Don't you get it? Youth is for experiencing the world, adventuring and " walking abroad among his fellow-men, and traveling far and wide." As a person does this, they gain the wisdom of people and places that you suggest should only be gotten after the journey is over. Once a man is older, such as yourself, to quote Shakespeare, "the world is too wide for his shrunk shank." What else is there to do than to ruminate on the past?

I have been trying to encourage adults, who in general consider education as a matter only for young people, to give this idea of self-learning a try. It seems to be human nature to do a turtle (close the mind) when encountering a new and unorthodox idea.


Them's fightin' words, bub! I think you need to hang out with other people more.

Generally we seem to need for an idea to face us many times before we can consider it seriously.


So? It took Galileo quite a while to convince mankind the world was round. Change takes time. Again, I just think nothing happens fast enough for you.

A common method for brushing aside this idea is to think ‘I’ve been there and done that’, i.e. ‘ I have read and been a self-learner all my life’.


A passive-aggressive statement designed to counter anyone challenging you, like me.

It is unlikely that you will encounter this unorthodox suggestion ever again. You must act on this occasion or never act. The first thing is to make a change in attitude about just what is the nature of education. Then one must face the world with a critical outlook. A number of attitude changes are required as a first step. All parents, I guess, recognize the problems inherent in attitude adjustment. We just have to focus that knowledge upon our self as the object needing an attitude adjustment rather than our child.


In this paragraph, you assume that people have a negative or incomplete idea regarding education. Thanks alot. I suggest that it is you that has had an incorrect idea about education, and that you are just now waking up to that fact. Sorry. The rest of us have all been learning while you were gone. Every day and in every way.

I am not suggesting a stroll in the park on a Sunday afternoon. I am suggesting a ‘Lewis and Clark Expedition’. I am suggesting the intellectual equivalent of crossing the Mississippi and heading West across unexplored intellectual territory with the intellectual equivalent of the Pacific Ocean as a destination.


To ideas such as time travel? A French team sent an electron back in time one second last year. Quantum teleportation? Six viable concepts are currently be worked on. Immortality? RNA enhancers combined with free-radical eliminators extended the lives of mice by a factor of seven last year. Anti-Gravity? A supercooled, spinning ceramic floated a bowling ball earlier this year. Social engineering? Deep Blue teams are doing that as we speak. Terraforming? Biogeneticists have perfected a bacterium that eats hydrocarbons and gives off sugar.

If your goal is the Pacific ocean, you are still sitting in your Model -T, trying to start it. The rest of humanity is far, far beyond your imagination and we are streaking forward in a fighter jet.

You plead with people to get educated and expand their horizons, both inner and outer. Calm down, don't worry...WE already are.

[lady cop]

well said Jives. hoo haaa :wah: another pretentious jerk slain.

[Jives]

ROFL. Take that! (Jives draws a rapier and makes a "Z" mark on the post!)

Ha! HA!

(Jives swings off on a rope to a horse and gallops away.):wah:

[Galbally]

As a bit of a self confessed intellectual myself, I have to say that I find people that ponder too much on being intellectual or what that means or its implications a bit trite, and frankly boring. I like the fact that I'm smart, but I also got over it a long time ago, I don't take it too seriously, and its certainly not the be all and end all of being a person. So by all means continue on your voyage of intellectual discovery it should be interesting, the world is a wonderful place, but try not to dissapear up your own arse in the process. As for whether colleges and universities are too result driven nowadays is a fair point to make, but we do live in a material world, not some intellectual plane of existence, so intellectualism for its own sake is a bit pointless, which is probably why I decided to study science instead of philosophy, ultimatley its far more intellectually rewarding.

[BTS]

I've seen him at another forum..

Thought he was long-winded and trite too.

Here is some more reading at his site:



http://www.septemberscholar.com/

[Jives]

Galbally wrote: As a bit of a self confessed intellectual myself, I have to say that I find people that ponder too much on being intellectual or what that means or its implications a bit trite, and frankly boring.


My thoughts exactly. Where was the fire in that post? The inspiration? Truthfully,if embarking on his quest ended up making me speak and think like that, I'd throw myself in front of traffic.

I like the fact that I'm smart, but I also got over it a long time ago, I don't take it too seriously, and its certainly not the be all and end all of being a person.


I like this GUY!:D

So by all means continue on your voyage of intellectual discovery it should be interesting, the world is a wonderful place, but try not to disappear up your own arse in the process.


OH. MY. GOD! That is hands-down the funniest line I've ever read! We have a winner for Jives' new signature!

As for whether colleges and universities are too result driven nowadays is a fair point to make, but we do live in a material world, not some intellectual plane of existence, so intellectualism for its own sake is a bit pointless.


....like a painting in an attic. (My favorite simile from my previous post) That's exactly what I was trying to tell him.

(Jives gives Gallbally a high five) SLAP!

Dude, you are going to fit right in around here!

[lady cop]

ya know what Gally....i have a 160 IQ and only use it to slay my sergeants. people ask me why i'm a lowly cop. well it's because i love kicking the arse of bullies. i have a law degree and i am a registered nurse. but i like to wallow around in the dirt with scumbags. my dad was appalled.

[Galbally]

lady cop wrote: ya know what Gally....i have a 160 IQ and only use it to slay my sergeants. people ask me why i'm a lowly cop. well it's because i love kicking the arse of bullies. i have a law degree and i am a registered nurse. but i like to wallow around in the dirt with scumbags. my dad was appalled.


Well I am delighted you are a police woman, if everyone who had an IQ level of 160 sat around on their arses thinking about how great they were that they were so smart, then we would all starve, very quickly, being smart is great, but life is all about application.

[SOJOURNER]

Are any FG posters Mensa members?

[Galbally]

ArnoldLayne wrote: I have an IQ of 122 so decided long ago that the journey of intellctual discovery was probably best left to those with faster cars.



I'm still thimbing a lift :rolleyes:


IQ isn't everything Arnold, its a test for seeing how quickly our brains can handle specific puzzles, but it isn't a holistic intelligence test, I know quite a few people with PhDs who sit around and don't actually do anything useful except complain why they aren't millionaires and how no one appreciates them, smart yes, clever? not very.

[lady cop]

yep. but mensa is so pretentious. i am smart but i hope to hell not pretentious. my mom was eligible for daughters of the american revolution and told them to sod off. i feel the same.

[Galbally]

Jives wrote: My thoughts exactly. Where was the fire in that post? The inspiration? Truthfully,if embarking on his quest ended up making me speak and think like that, I'd throw myself in front of traffic.



I like this GUY!:D



OH. MY. GOD! That is hands-down the funniest line I've ever read! We have a winner for Jives' new signature!



....like a painting in an attic. (My favorite simile from my previous post) That's exactly what I was trying to tell him.

(Jives gives Gallbally a high five) SLAP!

Dude, you are going to fit right in around here!


Thank you Jives, being your the man who can do the "landing the broken plane" thing, which is far more impressive than anything I have (or ever will, hopefully) do, I will take all your compliments very seriously! :rolleyes:

[Jives]

Galbally wrote: I know quite a few people with PhDs who sit around and don't actually do anything useful except complain why they aren't millionaires and how no one appreciates them, smart yes, clever? not very.


And on the other side of the coin, I know a few oilfield hands whose I.Q. is their shoesize, but their instinctive insight in human psychology would confound the best in the field.

Oh, and Ladycop...don't worry! someone as sweet as you could never in a million years come off as pretentious!;)

[SOJOURNER]

lady cop wrote: yep. but mensa is so pretentious. i am smart but i hope to hell not pretentious. my mom was eligible for daughters of the american revolution and told them to sod off. i feel the same.


Isn't Mensa a sort of think-tank?

[lady cop]

SOJOURNER wrote: Isn't Mensa a sort of think-tank?mensa is a club for high IQs , but it is also a crashing bore.

[Galbally]

And on the other side of the coin, I know a few oilfield hands whose I.Q. is their shoesize, but their instinctive insight in human psychology would confound the best in the field.

Exactly, some of the smartest people I know are not in the least bit intellectual, but they could buy or sell me in the morning, but at least I am clever enough to know that I am not as clever as they are! :wah:

Oh, and Ladycop...don't worry! someone as sweet as you could never in a million years come off as pretentious

She is quite sweet isn't she?, but she's not to trifled with either I think.

[lady cop]

Galbally wrote: And on the other side of the coin, I know a few oilfield hands whose I.Q. is their shoesize, but their instinctive insight in human psychology would confound the best in the field.



Exactly, some of the smartest people I know are not in the least bit intellectual, but they could buy or sell me in the morning, but at least I am clever enough to know that I am not as clever as they are!



Oh, and Ladycop...don't worry! someone as sweet as you could never in a million years come off as pretentious



She is quite sweet isn't she?, but she's not to trifled with either I think. you are a sweet paddy. :yh_shamrk :yh_shamrk :yh_shamrk

[Galbally]

You know, I've never actually done an IQ test, I don't think I would do very well in one, I hate puzzles, I'm always ripping up crossword pages in newpapers in frustration, shooting my way through puzzle type video games, and looking with incomprehension at T.V. wordgame shows like "Countdown" in the U.K., though my arithmatic is passable, so I get the number puzzles, usually? Hmmmn? Though maybe the mensa thing would be fun, though they are probably into badges and dolphins and ocean-enironment invertebrates, but there would be smart girls there, though they would probably want to waffle on about descontructionism, positivism, and post-feminism.....................yawn.

[ComfortablyNumb]

WAY too much introspection and WAY too little life experience this guy has.

He's obviously been in a time warp since he left school. How can anybody NOT learn - what? Never read a book, wear ear muffs, don't watch anything? Crazy.

I learned from my time as a teacher that "For every person who wants to teach there are 30 who don't want to learn" and everybody puts far more effort into finding out about things they're interested in. It's natural. No need for all of this deep fake intellectual existential rubbish, that just shows immaturity since most of us got over that in College.

In the whole of that post I still didn't find any new knowledge and I still cannot say what the guy's interests are specifically, so not a good communicator.

[StupidCowboyTricks]

ArnoldLayne wrote: Ive only done a timed on-line IQ test. The thing that I was lacking when it comes to problem solving ie mathematics, is my short term memory. My age I s'pose. Why dont they just come out and say ,straight to my face. SORRY ARNOLDLAYNE, YOU'RE OLD AND YOU'RE LOSING IT.....NEXT !


How old is old?:-2

[chonsigirl]

Is that in doggie years?

*you youngster you*

[ComfortablyNumb]

lady cop wrote: mensa is a club for high IQs , but it is also a crashing bore.


They invited me to join because I'm 98th centile but I read on the Net that some members in London wearing 'I have nothing to declare but my genius' T-shirts couldn't get out of a building because it had a revolving door.

I'll take street smarts any day.

[StupidCowboyTricks]

ArnoldLayne wrote: I'm 103


Is that Sterling?

[StupidCowboyTricks]

ArnoldLayne wrote: £, s, d ( thats pounds shillings and pence ) :p


Before or after the rate of exchange?

[StupidCowboyTricks]

ArnoldLayne wrote: Oh! During


,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[OpenMind]

Welcome Coberst. Although I am not sure why you have come to this forum with such a mission statement. Self-learning is a great hobby for those with the predisposition to pursue it. I have pursued it, among other things, since before I left school. But it's not for everyone.

There are areas on this forum where abstract knowledge can be mutually explored. But an introductory thread is supposed to be about yourself, not your philosophies alone. Did you research this site before you made your, er, introduction? What subjects have you learnt about? Are you now embarking upon a study of social interaction? Can you play a musical instrument?

If you have come here to pursuade us all to become self-learners, then your head is firmly buried where your piles should be. The people here are from all walks of life and of all ages and you will be seen as a bit cranky to most unless you can show that you are able to engage in more than one type of conversation or a bit of banter, joviality, and wordplay. After all, if everyone indulged in self-learning, there would be no one to cultivate the crops we need.

Anyway, welcome.

[Galbally]

ArnoldLayne wrote: Ive only done a timed on-line IQ test. The thing that I was lacking when it comes to problem solving ie mathematics, is my short term memory. My age I s'pose. Why dont they just come out and say ,straight to my face. SORRY ARNOLDLAYNE, YOU'RE OLD AND YOU'RE LOSING IT.....NEXT !


Do you remember what the site was, I could always Google it, to find one I suppose, It would be interesting to see how I did?

[lady cop]

Gally i already recognize your brilliance. i think you verge upon genius. i have known 5 geniuses in my life. Bothwell is one of them. and my Dad. as for me, i know i can be crabby, but it's true, street smarts are important. i was raised to occupy academia, but i became a cop and appalled everyone in my family. it was a matter of wanting to beat up bullies and protect underdogs.

[coberst]

Whoo! I thought I must have landed in Santa's workshop with such a jolly band of elves running all about. Thanks much for the warm (hot!) reception. I will later try to provide answers to individual questions but for now I just wanted to supplement my intention that I began with this introductory post.

I think there is a hierarchy of the transmission of knowledge between the source and the common man or woman.

I consider the source of knowledge to be books written by individuals such as Emerson, Kant, McLuhan, Marx, Habermas, Feynman, etc. A second level is the individual who writes what might be called ‘secondary sources’. College professors write these generally, but not always. I think then there is a third level that is written by the ‘populizers’. These populizers are experts in the particular domain of knowledge and they also have keen writing skills that allow them to convert difficult material into a form readily understood by the layperson.

A fourth level is what I label to be the ‘supplementor’ or ‘populist scholar’. I created this name out of thin air because, to my knowledge, no word exists in the English language for this knowledge transmitter. Perhaps I am not aware of such a word because there are very few who undertake such an assignment or because there is such little use for such a word.

I consider knowing to be analysis and understanding to be syntheses. Our schooling has prepared us to become good workers and voracious consumers. This preparation has produced a cornucopia of delights for some small percentage of the world’s population. But our real problem is learning how to live together as a coherent group. We need individuals who understand so they can help others to understand.

In my opinion the world badly needs a cadre of individuals focused on helping the population understand where it now stands so that it can begin the arduous task of determining where it might wish to go.

The cadre I speak of are those who recognize that schooling is the beginning but self-actualized learning needs to be a lifetime project and the action to be directed is this function of ‘supplementation’. Just as they add Ca to OJ to supply the missing calcium the body needs we need an intellectual supplement. I think these post-schooling scholars are these necessary enlighteners the world needs. That is where you and I come into the equation.

[chonsigirl]

Well, since I write "secondary sources," do I get a separate equation?

*Nomad, your math homework is overdue...............*

[coberst]

Elf

December will do fine. In fact I guess I might qualify for that category myself.

[coberst]

BTS

Yes I plead guilty. I am Chuck Oberst. How did you happen to stumble onto my web site?

[chonsigirl]

He googled it, coberst.

[coberst]

Jives

Understanding yourself and your motives is possible, but what man can comprehend the entire world?



No not trying to understand the whole world. Just that part that I am curious about. I must give all teachers a hand because I suspect it is a difficult and demanding task and does not receive the credit due.

[coberst]

OpenMind wrote: Welcome Coberst. Although I am not sure why you have come to this forum with such a mission statement. Self-learning is a great hobby for those with the predisposition to pursue it. I have pursued it, among other things, since before I left school. But it's not for everyone.

There are areas on this forum where abstract knowledge can be mutually explored. But an introductory thread is supposed to be about yourself, not your philosophies alone. Did you research this site before you made your, er, introduction? What subjects have you learnt about? Are you now embarking upon a study of social interaction? Can you play a musical instrument?

If you have come here to pursuade us all to become self-learners, then your head is firmly buried where your piles should be. The people here are from all walks of life and of all ages and you will be seen as a bit cranky to most unless you can show that you are able to engage in more than one type of conversation or a bit of banter, joviality, and wordplay. After all, if everyone indulged in self-learning, there would be no one to cultivate the crops we need.

Anyway, welcome.


I came to this forum because someone mentioned that everyone is smart. Self-actualizing learning is not for everyone not because they cannot do it but because they have not found the joy of learning. I think part of the difficulty is a slumbering curiosity and imagination.

The domains of knowledge that my curiosity has led me to are history, philosophy, physics and sociology. I already had a good bit of math with my engineeing degree.

A book that I find particularly interesting is "Philosophy in the Flesh" that explaines some of the accomplishments of cognitive science.

I enjoy discussing many things. They told me you people were smart but they did not mention the bathroom language you like to use.

Thanks for the welcome.

[coberst]

chonsigirl wrote: Well, since I write "secondary sources," do I get a separate equation?

*Nomad, your math homework is overdue...............*


You are welcome to do both.

[nvalleyvee]

Galbally wrote: As a bit of a self confessed intellectual myself, I have to say that I find people that ponder too much on being intellectual or what that means or its implications a bit trite, and frankly boring. I like the fact that I'm smart, but I also got over it a long time ago, I don't take it too seriously, and its certainly not the be all and end all of being a person. So by all means continue on your voyage of intellectual discovery it should be interesting, the world is a wonderful place, but try not to dissapear up your own arse in the process. As for whether colleges and universities are too result driven nowadays is a fair point to make, but we do live in a material world, not some intellectual plane of existence, so intellectualism for its own sake is a bit pointless, which is probably why I decided to study science instead of philosophy, ultimatley its far more intellectually rewarding.


When did you meet my mother???? :wah:

As to all the posts about IQ........the average IQ of the kids I teach is 50 and they articulate their opinion with more clarity than Coberst's first post.

Cobert - I enjoyed your input and your thoughts are welcome here, it's great to see that great minds don't think alike. I like a good agruement - it keeps everyone thinking.

[nvalleyvee]

chonsigirl wrote: He googled it, coberst.


:yh_worshp - and what is your IQ:wah: .................

[chonsigirl]

*laughing*