When to call the electrician?

rainbowsmiles · Post by **rainbowsmiles** » Sat Sep 23, 2006 9:09 pm

Ok, the bf managed to fix the light switch that wasn't working with a bit of help from some guy at home depot :wah: But now he thinks he is an electrician and I'm worried about him. We have a light that doesn't work in the basement. I tried replacing the bulb but that clearly isn't the problem. It must be in the electrical - is this a job that requires an electrician? Same goes for an outlet in our bedroom. There is a cord coming out of the wall with to plug-ins at the end of it. I went to move it the other day and it shot sparks at me. I secretly called an electrician and he told me it wasn't a fire hazard because our circuit breaker flipped when it sparked. He even suggested I flip the circuit breaker back on and then recheck the outlet. I'm too chicken to do that

Anyway... just wondering if any one can tell me if these jobs are simple enough for just us little home owners or if we need to get someone in here that really knows what they are doing? I'm getting the impression the electricians think the jobs are just too small for them to come out.

Post by **spot** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 1:18 am

There are prudent warnings about such folly which should be taken to heart:

Lord Finchley tried to mend the Electric Light

Himself. It struck him dead: And serve him right!

It is the business of the wealthy man

To give employment to the artisan.

OpenMind · Post by **OpenMind** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 5:32 am

If you have to ask this question, then you shouldn't be trying to fix the electrics. However, if you know the safety precautions to follow, then there is no reason why you can't do these little jobs yourself.

I would suggest you get yourself a good DIY book. I would recommend Collins Complete DIY Manual which is very comprehensive, but make sure you get a manual relevant to the USA.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 5:38 am

Home Depot has a fix-it book that should help you decide.

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 7:44 am

I dont like to venture beyond changing out a fixture, Ive seen the damage fire can do. I dont really understand wires coming out of the wall. Can you post a pic ?

rainbowsmiles · Post by **rainbowsmiles** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 7:34 am

Thanks for the advice everyone! Yeah, we have like 20 self-help books :wah: That was how the bf managed to change the light switch (sorta). He had the books and since the books weren't descriptive enough for him he went and begged for help at home depot :wah: But now that he made the switch work he thinks he is an electrician and can accomplish anything.

The problem with electricians, there aren't many who want to do the small jobs, and I'm always worried about fire if it doesn't get taken care of.

Nomad,

Sorry, I don't have a picture at the present time. I'll try and get one with the digital camera. It looks like a cord that is usually plugged into the wall except this cord is hardwired into the wall and it comes out from the wall about 3 feet and then at the end of it are two outlets. It is weird. It was here when this house was purchased.

Post by **spot** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 7:37 am

rainbowsmiles wrote: Sorry, I don't have a picture at the present time. I'll try and get one with the digital camera. It looks like a cord that is usually plugged into the wall except this cord is hardwired into the wall and it comes out from the wall about 3 feet and then at the end of it are two outlets. It is weird. It was here when this house was purchased.That really sounds like it ought to be screwed to the wall - you seriously can't have the weight of two plugs and leads dragging on a cord like that. A photo here would be a good idea.

rainbowsmiles · Post by **rainbowsmiles** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 7:51 am

Ok spot. I'll get the photo. I agree with you! The weight I think is a problem because I went to move the thing and it shot sparks at me and it threw the circuit breaker. But I've whined to everyone about it (including 2 electricians) and they keep telling me it isn't a fire hazard

I'll go get the photo now so you all can see what it is I'm talking about. It scares me just looking at it.

rainbowsmiles · Post by **rainbowsmiles** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 7:57 am

Here is a link to the picture: http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/1319/outletyv2.jpg

I tucked it between the wall and a dresser after it spit at me.

Post by **spot** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 8:03 am

rainbowsmiles wrote: Here is a link to the picture: http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/1319/outletyv2.jpg

I tucked it between the wall and a dresser after it spit at me.
Well done. That quarter on the floor is mine by the way, I remember dropping it.

If I'd put that in, the cord would go through the wall in a straight line and into the next room, where it would connect (with a plug, I hope, not hard-wired!) into a socket in that room. Can you find that other end of the cord and take a photo of where it goes to? If you can't then someone's walled up the wire and you have no idea what's feeding it. I'll wait to see what you find before I make any suggestions.

rainbowsmiles · Post by **rainbowsmiles** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 8:57 am

:wah: Well done. That quarter on the floor is mine by the way, I remember dropping it.

While your helping yourself to that quarter can you get the dust too - because I'm way to chicken to stick my hand in there :wah: (BTW/yes, I'm embarrassed about the dust)

I checked. The other side of the wall is actually in the closet. The wire is inside the wall, it doesn't extend anywhere that I can see.

OpenMind · Post by **OpenMind** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 10:34 am

Rainbow, the socket should be screwed to the wall. It looks like a flush fitting design that should have a pattress that fits into a wall cavity to which you would screw the socket.

Can you tell me if there are live terminals on the other side of the socket or are they covered?

rainbowsmiles · Post by **rainbowsmiles** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 2:26 pm

There isn't anything on the other side of the wall. I hope I can explain this right... The cord goes in on the one side, as you see on the picture but the other side of the wall is the inside of the closet. So its like the wiring is somewhere between the wall it enters and the wall on the inside of the closet. I'm sorry if I'm not articulating this well

I hope it helps.

There aren't any terminals on the other side (inside the closet). Its just the wall with nothing. Is this bad? So I'm not exactly where the wiring from this outlet goes.

YZGI · Post by **YZGI** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 2:32 pm

It looks and sound slike someone has wired in extra outlets from an exsisiting receptacle. I would probably turn the breaker off, clip the wires and cap them. I think where ever they have wired this wire from has loose connections now. If you wanted these two receptacles to work you woud have to run down where it is wired into. Maybe find out what other outlets go off when the breaker for this one is off. Pull that cover and see if it has extra wires.

OpenMind · Post by **OpenMind** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 2:33 pm

rainbowsmiles wrote: There isn't anything on the other side of the wall. I hope I can explain this right... The cord goes in on the one side, as you see on the picture but the other side of the wall is the inside of the closet. So its like the wiring is somewhere between the wall it enters and the wall on the inside of the closet. I'm sorry if I'm not articulating this well

I hope it helps.

There aren't any terminals on the other side (inside the closet). Its just the wall with nothing. Is this bad? So I'm not exactly where the wiring from this outlet goes.

Rainbow. Slowly turn the sockets over, watch where you put your hands or wear rubber gloves, and tell me if you see bare terminals where the wires go or if they are covered. If there are bare terminals, they need to be covered up with insulating tape until you can get the problem sorted.

I'm going to bed now. I'll look out for your response tomorrow.

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 2:37 pm

rainbowsmiles wrote: There isn't anything on the other side of the wall. I hope I can explain this right... The cord goes in on the one side, as you see on the picture but the other side of the wall is the inside of the closet. So its like the wiring is somewhere between the wall it enters and the wall on the inside of the closet. I'm sorry if I'm not articulating this well

I hope it helps.

There aren't any terminals on the other side (inside the closet). Its just the wall with nothing. Is this bad? So I'm not exactly where the wiring from this outlet goes.

If you turn the socket over (it should be quite safe with the circuit breaker tripped) can you take a photo of the back or describe it. Does it have a case or can you see the wiring go to the terminals.

From your description it sounds as though either the live or the neutral wire has come adrift of the terminal. With the circuit breaker off it should be an easy job to push it back in and tighten the screw to hold it but if that socket has no back cover then DO NOT reset the circuit breaker - get an electrician to make it safe.

Bill Sikes · Post by **Bill Sikes** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 2:40 pm

spot wrote: There are prudent warnings about such folly which should be taken to heart:

Lord Finchley tried to mend the Electric Light

Himself. It struck him dead: And serve him right!

It is the business of the wealthy man

To give employment to the artisan.

"Clerihews". I must find my book. It's probably in the attic.

Post by **spot** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 2:43 pm

OpenMind wrote: Rainbow. Slowly turn the sockets over, watch where you put your hands, and tell me if you see bare terminals where the wires go or if they are covered. If there are bare terminals, they need to be covered up with insulating tape until you can get the problem sorted.

I'm going to bed now. I'll look out for your response tomorrow.If I might add a few safety points here. You know where the circuit breaker is for that cord. You should go and turn it off before you begin moving it around. When you turn it over you'll see one of three things - a missing back and bare metal, or a blank cover in place, or additional sockets. If it's a missing back, he's right about insulating tape but don't turn the circuit breaker back on until you've bought some at the hardware shop - it's Electric Insulating tape, it's sticky on one side and you'd need to bandage it round until everything's hidden.

In either of the other two cases, while the circuit breaker is off, get someone to unscrew it and check that all the wires are tightened down to the correct posts. The sparking sounds like something's loose in there.

If the back is blank, you might be able to have the sockets screwed to the wall. If it isn't then it has to be loose and unattached on the cord like it is.

I do think you need to work out where the cord is plugged in in another room, even if it means squinting round the back or top of the closet. Find the same size and colour of wire coming away from the closet and follow it back.

You can report back on those bits and OpenMind's when you can. Don't touch anything metal. I'd hold the sockets by the cord only if I were you, and only when the circuit breaker is off.

Bill Sikes · Post by **Bill Sikes** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 2:46 pm

rainbowsmiles wrote: Here is a link to the picture: http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/1319/outletyv2.jpg

I tucked it between the wall and a dresser after it spit at me.

Gosh, look at that! I bet it's multi-core cable, too! I agree with BM that it's

probably a loose connection in the "socket". That's a floating piece of nastiness

that is just waiting to 'ave yer. Wire it up to a proper socket screwed to the wall,

switching off the 'leccy first, of course.

rainbowsmiles · Post by **rainbowsmiles** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 2:53 pm

Let me make sure I'm understanding correctly - when I'm turning the terminal over, you are referring to the outlet box right?

I'm really electric illiterate - sorry

That terminal, I know from when it spit at me, is solid metal on the other side (like a metal box with the plastic outlets on front). The sparks came out of the outlets.

Instead of fixing it I'd rather just put this thing out of service - so I just go and turn off the circuit breaker leading to that outlet and then cut the wires next to the wall and cap it? Is that correct?

I don't want to forget to say here: THANK YOU spot, bryn, open mind, yzgi, bill, accountable and nomad. I appreciate you all taking the time to answer my question and give me advice

Post by **spot** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 2:58 pm

rainbowsmiles wrote: Let me make sure I'm understanding correctly - when I'm turning the terminal over, you are referring to the outlet box right?

I'm really electric illiterate - sorry

That terminal, I know from when it spit at me, is solid metal on the other side (like a metal box with the plastic outlets on front). The sparks came out of the outlets.

Instead of fixing it I'd rather just put this thing out of service - so I just go and turn off the circuit breaker leading to that outlet and then cut the wires next to the wall and cap it? Is that correct?

I don't want to forget to say here: THANK YOU spot, bryn, open mind, yzgi, bill, accountable and nomad. I appreciate you all taking the time to answer my question and give me advice the capping is simple enough but you must get proper electric tape first from the hardware store - Durex or whatever you call clear stickytape won't do.

To cap, turn off the circuit breaker. Cut the cord. Cut the outside sheath off for about three inches. Tape all of the individual ends on their own so the tops are covered. Then tape all of them together. Then turn the circuit breaker back on.

I'd leave the circuit breaker off until then, if I were you. You'll have some other sockets that have no power while that's off, but it's safest. You do know the correct circuit breaker, don't you? If you have any doubt, do nothing.

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 3:09 pm

rainbowsmiles wrote: Let me make sure I'm understanding correctly - when I'm turning the terminal over, you are referring to the outlet box right?

I'm really electric illiterate - sorry

That terminal, I know from when it spit at me, is solid metal on the other side (like a metal box with the plastic outlets on front). The sparks came out of the outlets.

Instead of fixing it I'd rather just put this thing out of service - so I just go and turn off the circuit breaker leading to that outlet and then cut the wires next to the wall and cap it? Is that correct?

I don't want to forget to say here: THANK YOU spot, bryn, open mind, yzgi, bill, accountable and nomad. I appreciate you all taking the time to answer my question and give me advice

I seriously would not just cut the wires - that's an accident waiting to happen. It you want to take this approach then trace the wire back to source and disconnect it from there. If this is not possible then, after cutting the wire, sreip it back and put a terminlal block one the end. If this is not possible then at the very least smother it with insulating tape.

When the circuit breaker tripped did anything else stop working? If not then leave it off with a sign warning never to turn it on again until fixed. If there's anything on that circuit you must use then get an electrician in.

If you must try to fix it youself :-

With the circuit breaker OFF, lightly brush a finger against the metal back to make sure that it's not live (if it is then the jolt will pull your finger away from the metal - if you try to hold it the jolt would make you grip it harder).

If you feel nothing then unscrew the screw between the two sockets. That will release the back and you can then see the wiring. You will probably see that one of the wires is not connected to its terminal. Using an insulated screwdriver, loosen the terminal's retaining screw. Touching only the plastic insulation, push the wire back into its terminal and, using your insulated screwdriver, re-tighten the retaining screw. Then relocate the back and tighten up the screw in the front of the socket.

DO NOT DO THIS UNLESS YOU ARE HAPPY THAT YOU FEEL SAFE ABOUT IT

The usual advice is, if you have to ask then don't touch it - it's good advice.

Bill Sikes · Post by **Bill Sikes** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 3:24 pm

rainbowsmiles wrote: That terminal, I know from when it spit at me, is solid metal on the other side (like a metal box with the plastic outlets on front). The sparks came out of the outlets.

Instead of fixing it I'd rather just put this thing out of service - so I just go and turn off the circuit breaker leading to that outlet and then cut the wires next to the wall and cap it? Is that correct?

Kinell, this connection keeps dropping.

To fix temporarily, switch everything off, not just the breaker for that circuit,

get the metal back of the thing off, and fix any loose wires/connections. Then

replace the back. That'll stop the thing possibly bursting into flames. A fair current

*could* flow without tripping the breaker, which would toast the "outlet" nicely.

Then for a much better fix:

You're in the 'States, but I bet you can get the equivalent of these

(next article):

Switch everything off, not just the breaker for that circuit.

Fit a pattress to the wall (pic#1). Make sure you don't screw into any cables in the

wall. Patresses have break-outs so you can feed the cable through. Trim the

cable. Wire to a 2-gang double pole socket (pic#2). Screw the socket onto the pattress and you've a much safer though not wonderfully sightly "outlet".

Attached files

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 3:26 pm

Bill Sikes wrote: Kinell, this connection keeps dropping.

You're in the 'States, but I bet you can get the equivalent of these

(next article):

Certainly safer than a metal back to a flying lead

Bill Sikes · Post by **Bill Sikes** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 3:35 pm

Bryn Mawr wrote: Certainly safer than a metal back to a flying lead

I had to edit the flippin' thing a few times, still not wonderfully satisfactory,

but quite easy, & safe, & useful.

I sometimes wonder how outrages such as that pictured ever happen!

Bill Sikes · Post by **Bill Sikes** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 3:39 pm

rainbowsmiles wrote: Here is a link to the picture: http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/1319/outletyv2.jpg

I tucked it between the wall and a dresser after it spit at me.

It's hard to be sure, but blowing that pic. up seems to show the cable going

into the wall into some sort of metal tube (conduit). Is this so?

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 3:40 pm

rainbowsmiles wrote: Thanks for the advice everyone! Yeah, we have like 20 self-help books :wah: That was how the bf managed to change the light switch (sorta). He had the books and since the books weren't descriptive enough for him he went and begged for help at home depot :wah: But now that he made the switch work he thinks he is an electrician and can accomplish anything.

The problem with electricians, there aren't many who want to do the small jobs, and I'm always worried about fire if it doesn't get taken care of.

Nomad,

Sorry, I don't have a picture at the present time. I'll try and get one with the digital camera. It looks like a cord that is usually plugged into the wall except this cord is hardwired into the wall and it comes out from the wall about 3 feet and then at the end of it are two outlets. It is weird. It was here when this house was purchased.

This is too wacky. Bloomington right ? Maybe I should come down and between your bf and myself we could manage to keep the fire contained to say just the back bedroom.

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 3:42 pm

Who did that ? Are the wires on the back of the outlet exposed ? Dont use that outlet and it needs to be capped off. Also the dust is bothering me. Could you get that for me ?:D

That can be mounted in the wall very easily. That is dangerous like that.

rainbowsmiles · Post by **rainbowsmiles** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 5:28 pm

Could the sparking possibly be because our electrical system is just 100 amp. I'm not sure what that means exactly but one of the inspectors that came through said our home was 100 amp and said that was unusual for a house this size.

When the circuit is shut down it takes out half the power in my hallway and parts of the bathroom along with that outlet - not sure what that is all about.

BTW/ I'm a good housekeeper, I really am... its just that darn sparking outlet has kept me away from that corner for quite some time.

This is too wacky. Bloomington right ? Maybe I should come down and between your bf and myself we could manage to keep the fire contained to say just the back bedroom.

I was feeling confident about cutting wires and capping things off until I read your post nomad :-3 :wah:

koan · Post by **koan** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 5:35 pm

glad your rainbow smiles didn't turn neon.

well done

Post by **spot** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 5:39 pm

rainbowsmiles wrote: Could the sparking possibly be because our electrical system is just 100 amp. I'm not sure what that means exactly but one of the inspectors that came through said our home was 100 amp and said that was unusual for a house this size.

When the circuit is shut down it takes out half the power in my hallway and parts of the bathroom along with that outlet - not sure what that is all about.

BTW/ I'm a good housekeeper, I really am... its just that darn sparking outlet has kept me away from that corner for quite some time.

I was feeling confident about cutting wires and capping things off until I read your post nomad :-3 :wah:
The 100 amp figure is the total limit of appliances you can have turned on in the house before your main fuse for all power trips out. Adding up the current rating of each appliance is a bore. 100 amps is about as low as an apartment can get.

Each circuit breaker allows power to a whole set of sockets or wall/ceiling light fittings - it shouldn't ever be both on one breaker. Otherwise you'd have as many breakers as you have outlets and that would be a lot.

Once you have the electric insulation tape to bind it all up, if you do turn off the circuit breaker and cut that cord, do it with plastic handled shears or wirecutters of some sort, not an all-metal handled one, and touch only the cord and the plastic handle. That way, if you have the wrong breaker (and you really don't want to do that!), you'll get a flash but you'll not be connected to the wires by anything that can conduct electricity.

It's not a time-consuming thing to do. Turning off the power first on the circuit breaker is the main essential. I'd rather it were done than that the socket continues to flash and spark inside. Keeping the circuit breaker off until then matters, I think. The sockets have the potential to get very hot, the way they might be.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 5:42 pm

rainbowsmiles wrote: Here is a link to the picture: http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/1319/outletyv2.jpg

I tucked it between the wall and a dresser after it spit at me.That is the wire that normally resides inside the wall, and that's a normal wall outlet. All you need now is a wall.

The previous owner probably had a cabinet or something that that outlet was mounted to.

rainbowsmiles · Post by **rainbowsmiles** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 6:00 pm

That is the wire that normally resides inside the wall, and that's a normal wall outlet. All you need now is a wall.

The previous owner probably had a cabinet or something that that outlet was mounted to.

That makes sense. And its interesting.

I'm wondering what other things "electrical" lurk behind the walls. We had a patio door put in not to long ago and the electrician that came to disable one of the outlets where they were sticking the patio door complained that the outlets in the dining room were wired through the kitchen. :-3

I'm scared now. All this electrical talk has me nervous. It all sounds simple in theory but each time I go and look at that thing I remember the incident with the sparks and the fumes I had before

and all I did is try to move the cord.

Tomorrow I will turn off the power in the entire house and take a look at it again.

Thanks EVERYONE for your help on this - I appreciate the time you took to post replies!

Thanks spot for that explanation on the amps!

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 3:50 am

Here's a pic of what your wall would look like if you removed the drywall. Those metal vertical things are called studs (didn't know you were surrounded by studs, didja?) and they are probably wood in your house, rather than metal.

When they build a house, they drill a line of holes all at the same height and run a heavy electical wire (like the one you pictured) through them. Those little gray boxes are where the outlets are mounted.

I agree with Yzgi (hope I spelled it right). Get your husband to clip the gray wire and put wire nuts on the 3 smaller wires you'll find inside

rainbowsmiles · Post by **rainbowsmiles** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 5:30 am

So we shut off the power, strip back the outside of the wire coming out of the wall and cut the wires with a wire cutter and then cap it? Is that correct?

Bill Sikes · Post by **Bill Sikes** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 5:45 am

rainbowsmiles wrote: So we shut off the power, strip back the outside of the wire coming out of the wall and cut the wires with a wire cutter and then cap it? Is that correct?

That'll do it... however a proper socket (wall outlet??) is a) a "cap", and b) useful.

Post by **spot** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 5:48 am

Bill is quite right, that's the long term solution - if you look at http://www.doityourself.com/stry/replacingwalloutlet you'll see what he's suggesting.

rainbowsmiles · Post by **rainbowsmiles** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 5:49 am

I'll dig out one of those handyman books I have to get a visual on this and I'll double check with you all cause right now I'm not 100% what this all looks like

Bill Sikes · Post by **Bill Sikes** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 5:54 am

spot wrote: Bill is quite right, that's the long term solution - if you look at http://www.doityourself.com/stry/replacingwalloutlet you'll see what he's suggesting.

The only thing is, does the cable go into some sort of conduit, as the picture

seems to show? I suppose a deep pattress could have a hole cut out of the

back to go over it, or the wall could have a bit of plasterboard stuck on to

make a plinth...

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 4:18 pm

Bill Sikes wrote: The only thing is, does the cable go into some sort of conduit, as the picture

seems to show? I suppose a deep pattress could have a hole cut out of the

back to go over it, or the wall could have a bit of plasterboard stuck on to

make a plinth...What's a plinth? It thoundth like thomething utheful.

Post by **spot** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 4:28 pm

Accountable wrote: What's a plinth? It thoundth like thomething utheful.

The Plinth of Wailth ith a plime ekthample of euthlethneth. England hathen't many but on the continent they're two a Euro. Perhapth Bill meant Plinthess?

thpot thearcheth flantically for hith teeth

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 12:52 am

The upside would be a new z.z.z.zaaaap doo

Some girls spend a fortune at the salon for those kind of curls.

rainbowsmiles · Post by **rainbowsmiles** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 5:37 am

If you all don't hear from me in a while, that means my house burned down or I got electricuted, one or the other

Post by **spot** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 5:56 am

To be honest, rainbow, I'd wondered whether silence had already descended. Do be sure you have that circuit breaker turned off before you touch anything!

rainbowsmiles · Post by **rainbowsmiles** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 7:40 am

To be honest, rainbow, I'd wondered whether silence had already descended. Do be sure you have that circuit breaker turned off before you touch anything!

We are still debating with ourselves whether or not we should tackle this ourselves or just get an electrician in here to do the entire house. We were confident about handling this problem yesterday until we started discussing all the electrical things that are wrong with the house. We have a light switch in the hall that sparks that we don't use anymore but can't shut down the breaker because it affects another room that we do use power in. Then we have the light in the basement that went out and it isn't the bulb

Then our lovely neighbor proceeded to tell us that we will have a hell of time selling (which is what we are aiming to do) with just 100 amp (our power goes off everytime we run the vacuum cleaner and the washing machine at the same time :-3

So right now we are hashing out whether or not we go through all these issues step by step or we call someone in to do an overhall (<SCARED to know how much that last thought will cost us).

Post by **spot** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 7:55 am

rainbowsmiles wrote: So right now we are hashing out whether or not we go through all these issues step by step or we call someone in to do an overhall (Each light might cost you an hour's labor. The "vacuum cleaner and the washing machine at the same time" problem isn't your 100 amp supply, it's a major botch on the part of whoever laid out the circuit breaker panel and that's only going to be fixed by replacing the circuit breaker box for a new one and probably getting your power company to increase the current supply to the property (or is it in an apartment block? That would then be a question to put to the complex manager). I don't think you're looking at re-wiring the whole place so far. I did that myself once and it took me two weeks working with help from my dad, it's a long job.

Bill Sikes · Post by **Bill Sikes** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 2:00 pm

rainbowsmiles wrote: We are still debating with ourselves whether or not we should tackle this ourselves or just get an electrician in here to do the entire house. We were confident about handling this problem yesterday until we started discussing all the electrical things that are wrong with the house. We have a light switch in the hall that sparks that we don't use anymore but can't shut down the breaker because it affects another room that we do use power in. Then we have the light in the basement that went out and it isn't the bulb

Then our lovely neighbor proceeded to tell us that we will have a hell of time selling (which is what we are aiming to do) with just 100 amp (our power goes off everytime we run the vacuum cleaner and the washing machine at the same time :-3

So right now we are hashing out whether or not we go through all these issues step by step or we call someone in to do an overhall (

Flippin' eck. If the osddnig things spark all over the place, get something

done!! It's quite likely that just offing the leccy and tightening up any wires

inside fittings will make a big difference. That's not hard, really (but do remember

to turn the leccy off first!!!).

If you think you need something done, then just 'phone up an electrician, and

ask for an estimate over the 'phone! Not difficult! Pick one a fair way away who

you probably won't use for the first estimate, and treat it as a learning experience!

Dunno about you, but in the Yook an electric meter/fuse is the property of

the supply company - if you need an upgrade, it does not cost. However, with

your uncorrected installation, I'm not sure that I'd put too much juice through

it (although the only bit of wire I've seen of it looks in good condition, as well

as made of PVC, rather than of ancient, cracking, rubber.

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 6:00 pm

rainbowsmiles wrote: We are still debating with ourselves whether or not we should tackle this ourselves or just get an electrician in here to do the entire house. We were confident about handling this problem yesterday until we started discussing all the electrical things that are wrong with the house. We have a light switch in the hall that sparks that we don't use anymore but can't shut down the breaker because it affects another room that we do use power in. Then we have the light in the basement that went out and it isn't the bulb

Then our lovely neighbor proceeded to tell us that we will have a hell of time selling (which is what we are aiming to do) with just 100 amp (our power goes off everytime we run the vacuum cleaner and the washing machine at the same time :-3

So right now we are hashing out whether or not we go through all these issues step by step or we call someone in to do an overhall (

The vacuum cleaner draws 5 amps (10 amps US) and the washer draws 12 amps (24 amps US) so the restriction is NOT the 100 amp bus. Either the MCBs in the consumer unit are undersized or you have a fault in the wiring. Is it the MCB, the RCD or the master switch that cuts out?

A typical set up would be :-

Master Light Light Power Power Power RCD

Switch MCB MCB MCB MCB MCB

The RCD will have a button marked TEST and the circuit breakers will have a leaver marked On and Off

The MCBs will be marked with their rating in amps - if one of these trips when using both appliances what is its rating?

The max draw for your house is 12KW which is low but not unusable. If you consider that a kettle is 3KW, a cooker is 5KW when using both the over and the hob, an electric shower is 10KW and an immersion heater is 4KW - factor in 2KW for everything else that isn't a heater (vacuum 1.2KW, washer 2.5KW) then you can figure what combinations will take you over the top - all fgures are approximate of course.

The light switch is likely to be a loose wire in that switch - kill the breaker, open the switch and tighten the connections. The basement is likely to be a bad connection in either of the controling switches or in the light fitting (or possibly in one of the roses in the ceiling).

It can all be sorted if you are confident of your ability - if not then get an electrician.

rainbowsmiles · Post by **rainbowsmiles** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 6:15 am

The circuit goes when we run the vacuum and the washer. The main circuit so the entire house loses power and I have to unplug the vacuum and then go down and flip the circuit back on.