Texas Amber Alert

The AMBER Alert System began in 1996 when Dallas-Fort Worth broadcasters teamed with local police to develop an early warning system to help find abducted children. AMBER stands for America's Missing: Broadcast Emergency Response and was created as a legacy to 9-year-old Amber Hagerman, who was kidnaped while riding her bicycle in Arlington, Texas, and then brutally murdered. Other states and communities soon set up their own AMBER plans as the idea was adopted across the nation.
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Peg
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Post by Peg »

Amber Alert Issued for 13 Year Old Texas Girl

Posted: Thursday May 6, 2010 3:14 PM CT

The State of Texas issued the Amber Alert Thursday afternoon (05-06)after the girl was apparently abducted from her school in Austin earlier in the day. Police believe the suspect may try to take the girl to Mexico. According to Police felony charges are pending against the suspect resulting from a violent act he committed against the girl.

Karen Anastacio, an Hispanic female, 13 years old, 5' 2", 115 pounds with black hair and brown eyes. She was last seen wearing a black shirt and black pants and carrying a pink backpack

The suspect is Angel Rojas Ambrocio, an Hispanic male, 25 years old, 5' 3", 135 pounds with black hair and brown eyes.

The suspect vehicle is a brown Ford Expedition or Explorer..

Anyone with information is asked to call the Austin Police Department at 512-974-0911 or dial 911.
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Post by Peg »

Amber Alert Issued for 13 Year Old Texas Girl

Posted: Thursday May 6, 2010 3:14 PM CT

Updated: Sunday May 9, 2010 10:34 APM CT

The State of Texas canceled the Amber Alert on Saturday (05-08) after it was determined that the girl and the suspect are probably in Mexico. Texas authorities are working with Mexican police to locate and arrest the suspect and return the him and the girl to the US. The suspect has been charged with felony criminal sexual misconduct.
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Post by spot »

"felony criminal sexual misconduct" equates to "violent act"? This is Orwellian Newspeak, not Standard English.

"stranger abductions are the most dangerous for children and thus are primary to the mission of an AMBER Alert [...] Plans require a child be at risk for serious bodily harm or death before an alert can be issued". Time and again these alerts are called without either criterion being met. For every alert called there's a hundred cases of missing children left completely uninvestigated. The huge publicity attached to Amber Alerts is the cosmetic hiding the ugly scar of reality. It allows the media to profitably frenzy and the public to dutifully pray but it does pitifully little for abandoned and runaway children on the streets who are at genuine risk of harm.
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Post by Peg »

I know how you feel about Amber Alerts. News flash. I don't care.
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Post by Odie »

spot;1308991 wrote: "felony criminal sexual misconduct" equates to "violent act"? This is Orwellian Newspeak, not Standard English.

"stranger abductions are the most dangerous for children and thus are primary to the mission of an AMBER Alert [...] Plans require a child be at risk for serious bodily harm or death before an alert can be issued". Time and again these alerts are called without either criterion being met. For every alert called there's a hundred cases of missing children left completely uninvestigated. The huge publicity attached to Amber Alerts is the cosmetic hiding the ugly scar of reality. It allows the media to profitably frenzy and the public to dutifully pray but it does pitifully little for abandoned and runaway children on the streets who are at genuine risk of harm.


Good thing you don't live here with 5 million of us, and that's just Toronto, there are Amber Alerts on all of our highways.....and.....they work.

It is huge publicity......that's why they're there......and.....it works;)
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Post by spot »

In what way does it work, Odie? How are you defining success? What aspect of Amber Alerts do you consider successful? The extent of their publicity?
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Post by spot »

Peg;1308994 wrote: I know how you feel about Amber Alerts. News flash. I don't care.


I'll tell you what, Peg. Instead of just saying you don't care that I criticize the system, why not answer a couple of the points I raise. Like, for example, "Time and again these alerts are called without either criterion being met". Like in this case the thread's about. You started the thread, you're not uninvolved, you're a participant in the program. You're as guilty of deception as the people who declare the alert in the first place. What you ought to be doing is demanding an effective system, not taking offence when none's being given.
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Post by Odie »

spot;1309001 wrote: In what way does it work, Odie? How are you defining success? What aspect of Amber Alerts do you consider successful? The extent of their publicity?


If you don't know............

c'mon spot, kids have been saved through these alerts from motorists and passengers seeing them.
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Post by spot »

Odie;1309011 wrote: If you don't know............

c'mon spot, kids have been saved through these alerts from motorists and passengers seeing them.


Fewer than two a year since the Amber Alerts started, in a country of 300 million people? And that's "success", in a country with perhaps a hundred thousand long-term runaway or abandoned children living off their own wits and trying to make money despite there being no jobs for the under-18s? What's needed is far more extensive than "fewer than two a year", there are hundreds of children dying each year without the least finger being lifted to rescue them. All because people glibly think that's what Amber Alerts are for, and that they're "successful". What they're successful at, Odie, is raising the viewing figures of the regional news channels and the anxiety of the population. That's why they exist.
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Post by G#Gill »

I would have thought that these Amber Alerts were better than not having anything. I would have also thought that one child found, or rescued through this Amber Alert being used, made it fairly well worth while, wouldn't you?
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Post by Peg »

Peg;1308543 wrote: Amber Alert Issued for 13 Year Old Texas Girl

Posted: Thursday May 6, 2010 3:14 PM CT

The State of Texas issued the Amber Alert Thursday afternoon (05-06)after the girl was apparently abducted from her school in Austin earlier in the day. Police believe the suspect may try to take the girl to Mexico. According to Police felony charges are pending against the suspect resulting from a violent act he committed against the girl.

Karen Anastacio, an Hispanic female, 13 years old, 5' 2", 115 pounds with black hair and brown eyes. She was last seen wearing a black shirt and black pants and carrying a pink backpack

The suspect is Angel Rojas Ambrocio, an Hispanic male, 25 years old, 5' 3", 135 pounds with black hair and brown eyes.

The suspect vehicle is a brown Ford Expedition or Explorer..

Anyone with information is asked to call the Austin Police Department at 512-974-0911 or dial 911.


spot;1308991 wrote: "felony criminal sexual misconduct" equates to "violent act"? This is Orwellian Newspeak, not Standard English.

"stranger abductions are the most dangerous for children and thus are primary to the mission of an AMBER Alert [...] Plans require a child be at risk for serious bodily harm or death before an alert can be issued". Time and again these alerts are called without either criterion being met. For every alert called there's a hundred cases of missing children left completely uninvestigated. The huge publicity attached to Amber Alerts is the cosmetic hiding the ugly scar of reality. It allows the media to profitably frenzy and the public to dutifully pray but it does pitifully little for abandoned and runaway children on the streets who are at genuine risk of harm.


Charges are pending resulting from a violent act he committed against the girl. She is 13 and he is 25. You don't think she is a risk for serious bodily harm? It is sad that not all missing children meet the criteria. I've said it before, and I'll say it again, if one child is saved, it is worth it. We can argue this over and over again. Why not agree to disagree and move on? You are NOT going to change my opinion of Amber Alerts and I am not going to change yours. The only difference is this time, I will not be bullied into backing down from posting them. Have a good night.
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Post by Odie »

spot;1309014 wrote: Fewer than two a year since the Amber Alerts started, in a country of 300 million people? And that's "success", in a country with perhaps a hundred thousand long-term runaway or abandoned children living off their own wits and trying to make money despite there being no jobs for the under-18s? What's needed is far more extensive than "fewer than two a year", there are hundreds of children dying each year without the least finger being lifted to rescue them. All because people glibly think that's what Amber Alerts are for, and that they're "successful". What they're successful at, Odie, is raising the viewing figures of the regional news channels and the anxiety of the population. That's why they exist.


2 a year?

-AMBER Alert programs have helped save the lives of 502 children nationwide since 2002.

62 children have been saved roughly per year.

perhaps you should get your facts right, thanks to George Bush for starting the Amber Alert, a lot of children have been saved worldwide.

is it because it was Bush's idea spot?



Sorry Peg for steering your amber alert off course.
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Post by spot »

Odie;1309027 wrote: 2 a year?

-AMBER Alert programs have helped save the lives of 502 children nationwide since 2002.

62 children have been saved roughly per year.

perhaps you should get your facts right, thanks to George Bush for starting the Amber Alert, a lot of children have been saved worldwide.


You honestly don't know what you're talking about Odie, but it's sad that you won't bother yourself to find out before you speak.

Firstly, I responded with "no more than two a year" to your "kids have been saved through these alerts from motorists and passengers seeing them" and I'm perfectly accurate in saying so. Just read my words in their context instead of assuming what I've said is what you think I've said.

If you'd like me to break down your "502 children nationwide since 2002" I'll do that as well, the actual figure turns out to be startlingly lower than that if you discount disputed custody issues where the person holding the child was a family member as opposed to a stranger.

Rather than re-typing details perhaps you'd like to read my earlier post at http://www.forumgarden.com/forums/amber ... post703930 discussing the breakdown of how many children have actually been rescued from stranger abduction by using the Amber Alert system. It's a low percentage.

All this stuff about even if it's only one child it's worthwhile is nonsense, what would be worthwhile is a system focused on all runaway and abandoned children rather than this minimal number of mainly dubious highlighted cases. The Amber Alert system is a pretense at strong reaction. It disguises the lack of resources actually being set against the problem. It is, as I described it, cosmetic.

And this isn't steering Peg's Amber Alert off course, Peg cancelled her Amber Alert in post#2.

As for "is it because it was Bush's idea spot?"... The Amber Alert scheme began in 1996. Perhaps you meant to type "Clinton" there, to whatever extent any White House Administration had a hand in it.

http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas ... ed?mode=PF provides excellent background to this discussion, if anyone would like to read it:only a tenth of Amber Alerts, he determined, helped rescue a child from what Griffin saw as a dangerous situation - and that group included situations in which an armed parent abducted his or her own child. While an armed parent is not something to be taken lightly, Griffin says, it's very different from a sexual predator with rape and murder on his mind.

Griffin calls it "crime control theater" which pretty well sums it up and agrees with what I've been arguing on ForumGarden for years. I'm pleased to note that my counts in that earlier thread predated his by a year, too.
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Post by spot »

Peg;1309019 wrote: Charges are pending resulting from a violent act he committed against the girl. She is 13 and he is 25. You don't think she is a risk for serious bodily harm? It is sad that not all missing children meet the criteria. I've said it before, and I'll say it again, if one child is saved, it is worth it. We can argue this over and over again. Why not agree to disagree and move on? You are NOT going to change my opinion of Amber Alerts and I am not going to change yours. The only difference is this time, I will not be bullied into backing down from posting them. Have a good night.
We'll keep an eye on the outcome then, as we have on previous threads.

Here's a snippet to keep informed with. I'll note that, other than the Amber Alert itself (and the police have an interest in insisting that the chap's "extremely dangerous") I've seen no hint of this charge relating to a violent act which you speak of.

Principal Dan Diehl issued an emergency phone message to parents, along with sending a letter home with students that read, "This is not a stranger abduction, and no one else is at risk."

[...] The principal said he and other South Austin school administrators are seeing a startling trend of young female students in relationships with much older men, sometimes leaving school with them.

Police: Student abductor Mexico-bound | KXAN.com

I'm not trying to change your opinion of Amber Alerts, Peg, I'm discussing them in the appropriate threads as they come up. That's how threads work. You have no excuse for taking my comments here personally, they're obviously not aimed at you.

As for "you don't think she is a risk for serious bodily harm" I'll give a candid opinion. I don't think the police are reacting to an event, I think they triggered it. I suspect the dash for the Mexico border was a reaction to police involvement. I don't think this situation involved involuntary kidnap either. Time will tell, but I suspect she'd be a damn sight safer if there hadn't been an Amber Alert issued and publicized to the four corners of the earth.
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Post by Odie »

spot;1309036 wrote: You honestly don't know what you're talking about Odie, but it's sad that you won't bother yourself to find out before you speak.




whatever spot, as said earlier......its works.
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Post by spot »

Odie;1309102 wrote: whatever spot, as said earlier......its works.


As I said earlier, it quite blatantly doesn't. It's totally unfit for any purpose beyond feeding the media frenzy.
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Post by Odie »

spot;1309110 wrote: As I said earlier, it quite blatantly doesn't. It's totally unfit for any purpose beyond feeding the media frenzy.


so why is it so many children's lives have been saved?

media is a good thing, it gets things out there.;)
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Post by Peg »

How many years of cases would you like to discuss Spot? In 2008, 58 children were recovered as a direct result of Amber Alerts. 58 that may not have been found if not for the Amber Alert. In some cases, the abductor heard there was an AA and returned the children, in some people recognized the child from the alert and contacted the authorities, and in some, law enforcement or a citizen recognized the vehicle description.

Since 1997, the AA has been credited with the safe recovery of 495 children. Without it, I wonder how many would have been safely recovered.

Do I think the program is perfect? No. Is any program of any kind ever perfect? No. My point is, as I've said before Spot, if your grandchild was abducted, would you not want the authorities to get her picture out there, the vehicle description, etc.? Would you have confidence in the authorities to find her without the help of the public?
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Post by spot »

It comes down to that qualification you keep putting in: recovered that may not have been found if not for the Amber Alert. It's the "may not". The majority of children for whom Amber Alerts are called are never in any physical danger whatever, and yet you keep putting up the full total of the Amber Alerts and using that as the figure "saved". They're not all the subject of an Amber Alert because they're in danger, they're all the subject of an Amber Alert because the police issued one for each of them. The number actually at physical risk is a small proportion of the cases you keep enumerating. Griffin's well-informed estimate is one tenth. The other nine-tenths are flim-flam from the beginning and I strongly feel that the police issuing the Alert in those nine cases out of ten are fully aware that they're abusing the system, ignoring and bending the criteria for their own reasons.

A nationwide system which makes so many of the population think something pro-active exists but which is actually dealing with 5 or 6 cases of genuine danger each year, at the current levels, is a smoke-screen. What it's disguising is the thousands of genuine instances of deadly risk each year which go unpublicized, inadequately investigated and unprosecuted, all ignored because hey, we've got the Amber Alert system, we've got it covered, we're doing good. On the contrary, what's in place is a news feed pressing emotive buttons for profit.

"In 2008, 58 children were recovered as a direct result of Amber Alerts" is simply untrue. In 2008, 58 children were made the subject of Amber Alerts and managed to survive the ordeal. Most of those were never out of the custody of a relative or carer.

"Since 1997, the AA has been credited with the safe recovery of 495 children" is a perfectly good statement regarding the misdirected "credit". Most of those were never out of the custody of a relative or carer either. The article in the Boston Globe makes allegations that you've never once tried to address which is a pity because you're more informed than most and more capable of considering the points being made. It would be constructive if you discussed the article's content. Every time I've tried to have this discussion with you, you've refused to speak up, you've just buried your head.

As a system intended to recover children at immediate risk of sexual exploitation by people holding them against their will, it's far too ineffective. The longer you support it instead of demanding its redesign, the more children will actually die instead of being saved. The one thing preventing a nationwide systemic redesign is the complacent acceptance by the general public that Amber Alerts are fit for purpose as they're currently used by law enforcement.
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Post by spot »

Just to put the Amber Alert totals into perspective, here are the NCIC Missing Person File 2007 figures which include a column for under-18s, showing how many are entered and cleared from the system each year.

As of December 31, 2007, the latest year published, there were 105,229 active missing person records in NCIC. Juveniles under the age of 18 accounted for 52% of those records.

During 2007 for juveniles, 518 were entered as Abducted by a Stranger (as distinct from a separate 2,919 entered as Abducted by Non-Custodial Parent). No reason for the entry was given in over 100,000 cases which just hints at the lack of due care given by Police Enforcement in this area of missing children.

The willingness of the US public to allow a hundred children to be registered as "Missing, Abducted by a Stranger" for every one child made the subject of an Amber Alert due to stranger abduction, and yet to think the Amber Alert system is a solution to the problem of abducted children instead of a smokescreen, is unconscionable.
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