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Smaug has reported a post.

Reason:Claiming to represent FG by offering congratulations to N.Korea. I resent this!
Post: Seventy years

Forum: Current Events

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Posted by: spot

Original Content: ForumGarden offers its congratulations to The Democratic People's Republic of Korea on the occasion of the seventieth anniversary of liberation from the previous thirty five year Japanese occupation.

The government has maintained a progressively non-aligned stance in the face of uninterrupted aggression by the Capitalist West and the continued occupation of the southern half of its country by foreign forces.

To have retained its independence throughout that period has involved suffering and vigilance on the part of the whole population, anything else would have led to a rapid defeat.

I urge The Democratic People's Republic of Korea to continue to pursue the reunification of its country. The re-establishment of a single government across the whole of the Korean Peninsula should be the the desire of every Korean. Diplomacy leading to reunification, unfettered by foreign interference in the internal affairs of the Korea, is an urgent priority, and the present moment is an ideal time to restart these negotiations.
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Post by Snowfire »

I disagree with the basic premise of Spot's post but what is it about it that you find offensive enough to have it removed ?

He is entitled to hold the views he does, as is your right to an opposing opinion.

You have been here long enough to understand spot and his pedantic foibles, surely.

Nothing to see here....move along !
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Post by Snowfire »

Don't get me wrong. There is nothing in Spot's opening post that represents anybody but spot. That should in itself be clear. Nothing written here should represent anything but ourselves as individuals.

It takes a while to "get" spot. I've been guilty of not in the past. This isn't me making excuses for his ability to rile the living daylights out of us. He does that very successfully.

The onus is on us all to argue our point from a different perspective or not bother at all, otherwise, what's the point in being here.
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Snowfire;1487442 wrote: I disagree with the basic premise of Spot's post but what is it about it that you find offensive enough to have it removed ?

He is entitled to hold the views he does, as is your right to an opposing opinion.

You have been here long enough to understand spot and his pedantic foibles, surely.

Nothing to see here....move along !


To answer you first point; I mightily resent someone acting as my spokesman, especially when said person espouses a viewpoint that I disagree with mightily. What makes this matter worse is that Spot's post infers that he speaks for everyone on the site!

Secondly, it's not up to me (or anyone else) to be 'understanding', it's up to Spot to behave himself, and NOT OVERSTEP HIS BOUNDS!! If he does, then he must expect a 'backlash', the same as the rest of us.

Thirdly, there is 'something to see here'; we have hundreds of guest readers online here most time, and the comments that Spot made earlier

reflect on this site, whether we like it or not, especially with the inference of speaking on behalf of Forum Garden as a whole. His comments genuinely angered me! NOT IN MY NAME springs to mind here...The only person who has the right to speak in my name is ME!
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Post by Snowfire »

Smaug;1487453 wrote: To answer you first point; I mightily resent someone acting as my spokesman, especially when said person espouses a viewpoint that I disagree with mightily. What makes this matter worse is that Spot's post infers that he speaks for everyone on the site!

Secondly, it's not up to me (or anyone else) to be 'understanding', it's up to Spot to behave himself, and NOT OVERSTEP HIS BOUNDS!! If he does, then he must expect a 'backlash', the same as the rest of us.

Thirdly, there is 'something to see here'; we have hundreds of guest readers online here most time, and the comments that Spot made earlier

reflect on this site, whether we like it or not, especially with the inference of speaking on behalf of Forum Garden as a whole. His comments genuinely angered me! NOT IN MY NAME springs to mind here...The only person who has the right to speak in my name is ME!


Don't get me wrong. Spot is an arse of the highest order oftentimes. This place would be duller than ditchwater otherwise. I don't come here to have smoke blown up my arse and I'm pretty sure he don't too. We can go to Facebook for that.

This place was better when it had some bollocks about it and spot has bollocks as well as talking a lot of it.
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Post by Smaug »

Snowfire;1487458 wrote: Don't get me wrong. Spot is an arse of the highest order oftentimes. This place would be duller than ditchwater otherwise. I don't come here to have smoke blown up my arse and I'm pretty sure he don't too. We can go to Facebook for that.

This place was better when it had some bollocks about it and spot has bollocks as well as talking a lot of it.


I make no 'buts' about this Snowfire, he's really p1ssed me off! Nobody speaks for me except me, and I certainly don't appreciate an admin or mod overstepping his bounds in this way in my, or other peoples, name in an attempt to ingratiate himself in some way with a despot like Kim Wrong 'Un.

It's 'bang out of order', and totally unacceptable. That's why I reported the post.
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Post by LarsMac »

Well, I somehow doubt that the good Mr Kim will get the wrong impression that we are among his great admirers.
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Post by G#Gill »

I think it would be good to reunite North and South Korea but under a far less violent man than Kim Jong Un, however, I am bound to agree with Smaug.

Spot should not have bunched all the members of Forum Garden together involving them in what, basically, is his own opinion ! Knowing this Kim Jong Un is such a vicious, power crazy tyrant, I am concerned that spot seems so in awe of such a being. I cannot really call Kim Jong Un a human, as he has shown how savage he is capable of being. If KJU is serious about trying to unify Korea, then there is only one reason for him doing that, and that is to give him greater power and wealth. I cannot see him wanting to do it for benevolent reasons. I doubt the tyrant has ever heard of the word benevolent any way.

No, spot, you should not include all the membership of Forum Garden in your miss-guided congratulations. Your words are so arrogant when you assume that all the membership of Forum Garden will automatically agree with your opinion. I am sure that most of the membership detest this savage tyrant, as I do and as Smaug obviously does.
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Post by valerie »

It doesn't piss me off at all, Snowfire's right it's just spot, as per usual.

I do think a reasonable compromise is to remove "Forum Garden" and insert *I* in that post. Simple.
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Post by Ahso! »

Spot (John) and his brother own the forum, so his wording is accurate. The rest of us are posters.
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Post by Bryn Mawr »

Both Spot and I are, first and foremost, members here posting as members and only when necessary acting as administrators.

Spot has a specific account for use when he's in administrator mode, FG. I'm lazier as, although I have such an account, FG_Admin, I usually post under BM before I think to change user.

As members we have every right to give an opinion, as a member you have every right to disagree with it as long as you remain civil.

Spot has posted as a member and not as a representative of FG, his phrasing is Spot being Spot but nothing that any other member might not have posted - your response in the thread makes it clear that you disagree although bringing up his admin position when he has posted as a member (in effect trying to prevent him from posting as an ordinary member) is somewhat gauche.
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Post by G#Gill »

valerie;1487478 wrote: It doesn't piss me off at all, Snowfire's right it's just spot, as per usual.

I do think a reasonable compromise is to remove "Forum Garden" and insert *I* in that post. Simple.




I agree, Valerie. I cannot understand why spot didn't do that in his original post !!!!! It would have saved all this anguish ! I do understand how Smaug feels, because I feel just the same - 'not in my name' is how I feel too.

One question, Mr. spot, why on earth did you put Forum Garden instead of 'I' ? Surely you must have anticipated a backlash !
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Post by G#Gill »

Bryn Mawr, what would have been your reaction if I had said, for instance, "On behalf of Forum Garden, congratulations are sent to Mr. Putin on his decision to bomb Syrian rebels as well as ISIS !" ?
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Post by Bryn Mawr »

G#Gill;1487490 wrote: Bryn Mawr, what would have been your reaction if I had said, for instance, "On behalf of Forum Garden, congratulations are sent to Mr. Putin on his decision to bomb Syrian rebels as well as ISIS !" ?


If someone immediately followed it with a denial that it was on behalf of FG in the same thread then I would have said nothing, as is my want.
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Post by G#Gill »

Bryn Mawr, what would have been your reaction if I had said, for instance, "On behalf of Forum Garden, congratulations are sent to Mr. Putin on his decision to bomb Syrian rebels as well as ISIS !" ? Just a thought.............................. :confused: :thinking:
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Post by Bryn Mawr »

G#Gill;1487492 wrote: Bryn Mawr, what would have been your reaction if I had said, for instance, "On behalf of Forum Garden, congratulations are sent to Mr. Putin on his decision to bomb Syrian rebels as well as ISIS !" ? Just a thought.............................. :confused: :thinking:


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Post by Ahso! »

Bryn Mawr;1487491 wrote: If someone immediately followed it with a denial that it was on behalf of FG in the same thread then I would have said nothing, as is my want.If not?
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Bryn Mawr;1487491 wrote: If someone immediately followed it with a denial that it was on behalf of FG in the same thread then I would have said nothing, as is my want.


Then why are you siding with spot when he has included all Forum Garden membership with his personal congratulations to a tyrant? Should not spot be obliged to post a denial concerning the inclusion of FG membership in his original post and in the same thread ?
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Post by spot »

It is extreme bad form to post in a reported thread when one's the subject, but I've been directly addressed several times.

One would think nobody had heard of Alan Partridge.
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Who is Alan Partridge and what has he got to do with this ?
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Post by spot »

I'm sure someone will explain, Gill.
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Why not you Mr. spot ?
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G#Gill;1487515 wrote: Why not you Mr. spot ?
Here, then - from Wikipedia...Partridge is socially inept; he enjoys correcting others and his relationships with women are dysfunctional. Partridge has an inflated sense of importance and celebrity. According to the Telegraph, he is "utterly convinced of his own superiority, and bewildered by the world's inability to recognise it – qualities that placed him in the line of comedy lineage that runs directly from Hancock, Captain Mainwaring, and Basil Fawlty." His need for public attention drives him to deceit, treachery and shameless self-promotion.
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You know, what you have just copied from Wikipedia, Mr. spot, could almost be a description of Mr. spot !!!!
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Post by spot »

The light appears to be on but nobody is reeding the text.
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Why do you do that Mr. spot ? LOL
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Post by Ahso! »

Nuance is not always easily understood. Perhaps a more direct explanation would be helpful.
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Post by Bryn Mawr »

Bryn Mawr;1487491 wrote: If someone immediately followed it with a denial that it was on behalf of FG in the same thread then I would have said nothing, as is my want.


G#Gill wrote: Then why are you siding with spot when he has included all Forum Garden membership with his personal congratulations to a tyrant? Should not spot be obliged to post a denial concerning the inclusion of FG membership in his original post and in the same thread ?


?Que? Spot's post is immediately followed by a denial in the same thread - job done.
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Sorry Bryn Mawr, I can't see it !
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G#Gill;1487527 wrote: Sorry Bryn Mawr, I can't see it !


I post "If someone", you appear to insist that "someone" must be Spot - that was not in the original statement at all. Read the thread, it has been made clear that the original statement does not cover the whole of the membership - job done.
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Bryn Mawr;1487529 wrote: I post "If someone", you appear to insist that "someone" must be Spot - that was not in the original statement at all. Read the thread, it has been made clear that the original statement does not cover the whole of the membership - job done.


Maybe I'm missing something here, Bryn Mawr, but I can't find it (the denial) either. Also, it is reasonable to assume, that a post bearing Spot's site name and avatar comes from Spot, and if said OP caries felicitations to N. Korea inferring that Spot speaks for Forum Garden, as opposed to only speaking for himself, it is also reasonable for me to complain at this, as I object to anyone making unsanctioned comments in my name.

I cannot find any correction/clarification of this matter on the '70 years' thread. If there is clarification, Bryn Mawr, would you please do me the favour of highlighting it with a quote.
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Post by Bryn Mawr »

Smaug;1487604 wrote: Maybe I'm missing something here, Bryn Mawr, but I can't find it (the denial) either. Also, it is reasonable to assume, that a post bearing Spot's site name and avatar comes from Spot, and if said OP caries felicitations to N. Korea inferring that Spot speaks for Forum Garden, as opposed to only speaking for himself, it is also reasonable for me to complain at this, as I object to anyone making unsanctioned comments in my name.

I cannot find any correction/clarification of this matter on the '70 years' thread. If there is clarification, Bryn Mawr, would you please do me the favour of highlighting it with a quote.


What you are missing is that, as I said in an earlier post, Spot and I are, primarily, members and only admin when absolutely necessary. The Spot account posts as a member, and admin work is done through the FG account.

The position is, therefore, that a member has posted using a form of words that you, as another member, has publicly gainsaid. Spot's OP might have inferred that he speaks for Forum Garden but you have made it clear that he does not.

It is reasonable for you to make your objections known (in a civil way of course) and you have done so. It is not reasonable for you to insist on an official retraction for a post that was made using a member identity, that is tantamount to refusing to allow Spot any existence on this site as a member which is unreasonable.
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ForumGarden offers its congratulations to The Democratic People's Republic of Korea on the occasion of the seventieth anniversary of liberation from the previous thirty five year Japanese occupation.


The post only goes downhill from there, and I paid for that nonsense, thanks.
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Post by LarsMac »

tude dog;1487607 wrote: The post only goes downhill from there, and I paid for that nonsense, thanks.


No, what you paid for was the privilege to grouse about it.
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LarsMac;1487608 wrote: No, what you paid for was the privilege to grouse about it.


I'll keep that in mind if Forum Garden makes another official statement on my behalf.
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Post by LarsMac »

Well, as Bryn pointed out, it was not Forum Garden that issued that statement. Spot is JAFM.

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Bryn Mawr;1487606 wrote: What you are missing is that, as I said in an earlier post, Spot and I are, primarily, members and only admin when absolutely necessary. The Spot account posts as a member, and admin work is done through the FG account.

The position is, therefore, that a member has posted using a form of words that you, as another member, has publicly gainsaid. Spot's OP might have inferred that he speaks for Forum Garden but you have made it clear that he does not.

It is reasonable for you to make your objections known (in a civil way of course) and you have done so. It is not reasonable for you to insist on an official retraction for a post that was made using a member identity, that is tantamount to refusing to allow Spot any existence on this site as a member which is unreasonable.


Well, I agree about the gainsaying of Spot's post, but I can't find any form of retraction/clarification from Spot on this matter, as of yet.

I also asked you if I was missing something (Spot's clarification/retraction) and asked if you could highlight this for me.

Spot's OP might have inferred that he speaks for Forum Garden but you have made it clear that he does not.

I'm not the only one who objected, either!

It is not reasonable for you to insist on an official retraction for a post that was made using a member identity

I would have said it was perfectly reasonable in the case of a member inferring that he or she speaks for the whole site. As I have already stated previously, had Spot sent his PERSONAL felicitations, rather than on behalf of FG, I would have had no complaint, as the felicitations would have been Spot's ALONE, and as a member, he has the perfect right to do so, but ONLY ON HIS OWN BEHALF. Such was my complaint, and the reason I reported the post.

Why do various people keep missing this key point?
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Post by G#Gill »

I agree with everything that Smaug has said, and just to add my fourpennyworth, as Smaug seems unable to get it into folk's unseeing, unthinking brains - Val had it sorted on page one ! It matters not that a member posts a comment on this site, there are a miriad of guest readers who haven't the faintest idea of spot or Bryn Mawr's situation.

I'm sure that if a member, any member typed that what they were saying was on behalf of Forum Garden, Admin or Moderators would be down on that poster immediately and insisting on a retraction and admission that the comment in question was NOT the view of Forum Garden site ! Am I right ?

It's all so much mountains out of molehills isn't it ? Spot arrogantly said what he said and attributed HIS opinion to the whole of Forum Garden. This was the wrong thing to do - yes ? OK, now that seems to be sorted, is it possible for spot to just simply and in plain language please, state that the OP was in fact just HIS personal opinion. This would purely be for the benefit of any guest readers, to clarify a situation. Yes we, the membership, are aware that probably spot was just being spot, but one must remember the visiting guest readers and how they would interpret what spot said in the OP ! I look forward to seeing some clarification from spot, as soon as he likes, please.
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Post by Bryn Mawr »

Smaug;1487615 wrote: Well, I agree about the gainsaying of Spot's post, but I can't find any form of retraction/clarification from Spot on this matter, as of yet.

I also asked you if I was missing something (Spot's clarification/retraction) and asked if you could highlight this for me.

Spot's OP might have inferred that he speaks for Forum Garden but you have made it clear that he does not.

I'm not the only one who objected, either!

It is not reasonable for you to insist on an official retraction for a post that was made using a member identity

I would have said it was perfectly reasonable in the case of a member inferring that he or she speaks for the whole site. As I have already stated previously, had Spot sent his PERSONAL felicitations, rather than on behalf of FG, I would have had no complaint, as the felicitations would have been Spot's ALONE, and as a member, he has the perfect right to do so, but ONLY ON HIS OWN BEHALF. Such was my complaint, and the reason I reported the post.

Why do various people keep missing this key point?


Who has stated that there should be a retraction by Spot apart from you and G#Gill? Spot has made a post, as a member and you have disagreed with it, as a member. I would not ask any other member to issue a retraction and I will not ask Spot to either.

As I have said before, Spot is a member and, as a member, has exactly the same right to make a statement on behalf of the site as any other member - none. It was not an official site announcement, it was a badly phrased personal comment by a member. Once it had been made clear the he did not speak for the entire site (by yourself and others) that was an end of the matter.

Forum Garden is not a site that indulges in heavy moderation - the moderators are not going round looking for reasons to infract members or force them into making retractions for statements that they've made unless there is a serious breach of the terms of service. There have been worse "crimes" committed without incurring the wrath of the moderators. The moderators do consider each reported post and act appropriately - the appropriate response in this instance is that the position has been made clear and no further action is necessary.
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Post by G#Gill »

Bryn Mawr wrote: :- Once it had been made clear the he did not speak for the entire site (by yourself and others) that was an end of the matter.


Sad, that it had to be brought to readers' attention by other members and not the OP author, though.
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Post by Smaug »

Well, we've all had our say, and thoroughly aired our differences and opinions on this subject. For myself, I propose to let the matter drop now, as it's only going to go round in circles.

Thank you everyone for your feedback.
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