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Smaug
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Smaug has reported a post.

Reason:Foul language used by Gnostic Christian Bishop against AnnBoleyn, namely : Bitch
Post: Christian and Muslim. Inequality OUT. World piece IN.

Forum: International Politics

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Posted by: Gnostic Christian Bishop

Original Content: AnneBoleyn;1481932 wrote: You know nothing of Judaism DL, so don't waste your time thinking about it. Any more mistakes and I might think you're an Anti-Semite. Rome was punishing the Jews by that act, which does not prove your point. They were merely asserting their power, like seizing the other side's flags as a sign of victory over their enemy. Find a synagogue near you and politely ask a rabbi.

No, I do not think those who pray to god are idol worshipers, unless you are re-writing the 10 Commandments. An idol is a physical thing.


Ease up with the names, bitch. I was speculating.

It happens that Gnostic Christians have always been close in theology.

Bill Moyers Journal . Watch & Listen | PBS

Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."

Please listen as to what is said about literal reading.

"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."



If Jews do not idolize their God then what word would you use to describe God if not their idol?

Regards

DL
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Post by Betty Boop »

Several members have tackled him on the thread.

I suggest no action for the time being.

Let's see what he does next.
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Post by Ahso! »

Anne's a big girl, she'll be fine. GCB mistook her post, that's all.
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Post by Betty Boop »

I don't much like his answer.
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Post by G#Gill »

Neither do I BB. He has arrogantly refused to apologise for his insult to AB.

[quote from GCB - I know exactly what she wrote.

You go ahead and give her points for political correctness. I will not.]

also :-

Quote Originally Posted by Betty Boop View Post

Ann implied she may end up 'thinking' you are anti semite, you responded by actually calling her a bitch.

Can you not see a difference there?

[ quote by GCB Yes. She is hypocritically politically correct and made an inference whereas I am right up front. ]

With that sort of attitude I don't think there will be any satisfactory outcome from GCB. As far as I can tell, in my opinion, he is a bad mouthing ignorant person. Possibly even has misogynistic tendencies ? I will try to avoid him as much as I can.
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Post by LarsMac »

This is at least his third such offense.
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Post by Bryn Mawr »

It was out of order and unjustified.

I've made that point in the thread so well see how he responds - if the response is negative then I'll issue an infraction and see if a slap on the wrist does any good.
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Bryn Mawr;1482344 wrote: It was out of order and unjustified.

I've made that point in the thread so well see how he responds - if the response is negative then I'll issue an infraction and see if a slap on the wrist does any good.


Seems like a fair plan, Bryn Mawr. Judge him by his response.
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Bryn Mawr;1482344 wrote: It was out of order and unjustified.

I've made that point in the thread so well see how he responds - if the response is negative then I'll issue an infraction and see if a slap on the wrist does any good.Yes, calling any person 'bitch', particularly a female need not be tolerated. But what about dialogue and insisting on fair and supportable content in seriously intended threads? Isn't that equally important as the language? FG appears to place an awful lot of emphasis on how members converse and yet excuse the lack of supportable content of what's posted. If instructing proper etiquette is preferred then I see no reason why not to insist on it with more than language alone. GCB is equally guilty of this as he is with his inappropriate language.

Also, infractions are a joke, admonish privately at first and openly thereafter and then take more drastic action afterwards as needed. People reading this forum need to see that it's worth investing their time in instead of needing to deal with a bunch of trolls who only slobber all over it.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,”

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Post by Bryn Mawr »

Ahso!;1482389 wrote: Yes, calling any person 'bitch', particularly a female need not be tolerated. But what about dialogue and insisting on fair and supportable content in seriously intended threads? Isn't that equally important as the language? FG appears to place an awful lot of emphasis on how members converse and yet excuse the lack of supportable content of what's posted. If instructing proper etiquette is preferred then I see no reason why not to insist on it with more than language alone. GCB is equally guilty of this as he is with his inappropriate language.

Also, infractions are a joke, admonish privately at first and openly thereafter and then take more drastic action afterwards as needed. People reading this forum need to see that it's worth investing their time in instead of needing to deal with a bunch of trolls who only slobber all over it.


There is a limit to how much and how closely the moderators can be expected to read every post of every thread and doing a critique of the debating style of each poster goes way beyond the reasonable. Also, we've been down the heavy moderation path before and it does not work. Since we've moved to light moderation the Garden has been a much better place with few members abusing the system - those, eventually, are weeded out :-)

Yes, infractions in and of themselves are a joke but they are the first step in a process that can lead to a permanent ban as the few members who abused the system found out.
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Post by Ahso! »

Bryn Mawr;1482400 wrote: There is a limit to how much and how closely the moderators can be expected to read every post of every thread and doing a critique of the debating style of each poster goes way beyond the reasonable. Also, we've been down the heavy moderation path before and it does not work. Since we've moved to light moderation the Garden has been a much better place with few members abusing the system - those, eventually, are weeded out :-)

Yes, infractions in and of themselves are a joke but they are the first step in a process that can lead to a permanent ban as the few members who abused the system found out.It sounds to me like you need moderators who actually give a damn about the site instead of people who prefer to behave like parochial school hall monitors.

When FG was moderated heavily, as you put it, the moderators had no idea what they were doing and had no clear direction from management which made it glaringly obvious that they had no business moderating, that's why it failed. Heavy moderation fails when the moderators see their function as more disciplinary in the sense of scolding and issuing infractions or having to tolerate abuse rather than guiding those who wish to be guided and those who need to be, both voluntarily and/or forcefully.

You can have certain areas of FG that are moderated this way and others that are less so. However, when a member initiates a thread in the incorrect forum category in order to avoid the system or just may not know better, it is moved to the appropriate one and moderated accordingly. This is where all the moderators would need to work together of course. And then there would need to be agreed upon practices that you approve of which can be implemented and maintained in your absence, and others that would require your approval only.

So it's possible to have the crumpets & tea threads and also proper communication in the appropriate forums for more serious discussions.

I honestly do not see what you have to lose by asking your moderators to care about the content of the site as well as the language. People who become members like organization, it causes them feel safe and appreciated for their efforts. This issue has cost this site many valuable members on both sides of the spectrum.

I would not go to the trouble of typing any of this unless I wanted to see this forum thrive. It may never do so, but it certainly hasn't and won't this way, it has become a troll magnet, sorry to say.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,”

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Post by Betty Boop »

Ahso!;1482436 wrote: It sounds to me like you need moderators who actually give a damn about the site instead of people who prefer to behave like parochial school hall monitors.




Gee thanks Ahso.

You seem to forget we are humans with families who do the moderating voluntarily!



By the way, I much prefer this lighter moderation, it works far better than heavy handed moderation. I've seen it from both sides.

The last thing I want to be doing is spending hours pedantically checking threads are in the correct place. Maybe you think we should just strip search and question heavily our prospective members before we let them in the door? :-2

I'd like to also see a show of hands for those who wish to be 'guided' :-3

I'd also like to reassure you that the moderators here do 'work together' and we already have knowledge of what Bryn allows and disallows. You speak as though you think we are all working as individuals doing a bit of what we fancy here and there!

Your suggestion of only allowing a certain type of language in certain places excludes people who are not very good at expressing themselves at taking part. Not everyone is able to produce reams of written arguments with confidence. When you come across a post that is not up to your standards then walk on by, you don't need to bother to respond if you feel the post is beneath you.

Anyway, If I'm a school hall monitor I reckon you deserve a weeks worth of detentions. :wah::rolleyes:
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Post by Ahso! »

Odd response from what I posted. You're first sentence appears to indicate you feel undeservingly slighted, but then you go on to list the reasons why I'm correct and even finish like a hall monitor. My suggestion is just that, a suggestion, and if ownership were to attempt to try it perhaps your schedule and responsibilities might conflict with the requirements, though I did say certain areas of the forum could continue mostly unchanged and therefore would not necessarily conflict with you.

There's no need to to take what I said personally, I didn't mention anyone by name and to my knowledge there are quite a number of moderators, active and not, to the site. Change is difficult to accept and easy to resist, that's normal.

I doubt you need to be concerned anyway.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,”

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Post by Betty Boop »

Ahso!;1482445 wrote: Odd response from what I posted. You're first sentence appears to indicate you feel undeservingly slighted, but then you go on to list the reasons why I'm correct and even finish like a hall monitor. My suggestion is just that, a suggestion, and if ownership were to attempt to try it perhaps your schedule and responsibilities might conflict with the requirements, though I did say certain areas of the forum could continue mostly unchanged and therefore would not necessarily conflict with you.

There's no need to to take what I said personally, I didn't mention anyone by name and to my knowledge there are quite a number of moderators, active and not, to the site. Change is difficult to accept and easy to resist, that's normal.

I doubt you need to be concerned anyway.


Odd response?

I have no clue how you can think you did not insult the moderators with your post.



Did you, or didn't you, imply that as mods we don't give a damn about FG.

And, why do you doubt that 'I' need to be concerned anyway :-2
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Post by G#Gill »

Here, here, BB. I was involved when FG was heavily monitored and, as BB said, it just didn't work. I think you will find that it is because quite a few of the trouble makers and 'iffy' members have now either voluntarily moved on (probably to Facebook :wah: ) or have been instructed to take a very long holiday !

OK, so Forum Garden has lost a bit of oomph. but that is probably because the 'bad' guys are not here any more and there are not so many bad-tempered posts/threads appearing. If you really want a good verbal fight, Ahso, may I suggest you find a site that has very lax rules, where profanities are offered up on a regular basis with no punishment !

I think what you are suggesting for this site, Ahso, would make things rather complicated and as BB says, the moderators have other things they need to tend to instead of spending all day monitoring Forum Garden !

Forum Garden is basically a family site where civil behaviour is expected, hence the ruling.

By the way, Ahso, when I was a moderator we all cared about Forum Garden, that is why we became moderators. You could say that we were all fiercely loyal and I doubt that has changed.
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Post by Ahso! »

Moderators can be assigned to certain forums. Those members that are asked to moderate a given forum might be a person who have a history of showing interest in that forum and therefore might care about the content posted in it. Posting history matters. Members who have good manners and have some knowledge in an area might make perfect moderators, though a firm hand when needed would also be a requirement.

When say a members posts a political thread in the religious forum either one of the moderators from those two forums may move the thread to the appropriate one. No biggie, and no worry for the moderator of the music or general chit chat forum in that instance.

Most threads tend to begin in the general chit chat forum on FG so that moderator would most likely get the brunt of the workload, so that would be taken into consideration when assigning moderators to certain forums. For those moderators who prefer to only deal with advertising spam and the like might be assigned a relatively light forum such as music or television so as to not be bothered much by the more heavy lifting.
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Post by G#Gill »

Like I said, Ahso, I think what you are suggesting is an interesting idea but when looked at more deeply I believe it would be too complicated because it would need more 'specialist' moderators. Forum Garden is moderated in a much simpler manner.
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Post by Smaug »

Though I haven't been here very long, I have "guest-read" FG for a few years, and I agree with Bryn Mawr about the moderation level. Opinions and free-speech are encouraged, rather than constrained by the thought "Is this post acceptable to the Moderators?" Yet should someone repeatedly transgress, mechanisms are in place to deal with site rule breaches.

For me, I think the moderation level is about right overall.
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Post by Bryn Mawr »

Ahso!;1482436 wrote: It sounds to me like you need moderators who actually give a damn about the site instead of people who prefer to behave like parochial school hall monitors.


Starting off with a direct insult to the existing moderators is not the best way to get your point of view across.

Ahso!;1482436 wrote: When FG was moderated heavily, as you put it, the moderators had no idea what they were doing and had no clear direction from management which made it glaringly obvious that they had no business moderating, that's why it failed. Heavy moderation fails when the moderators see their function as more disciplinary in the sense of scolding and issuing infractions or having to tolerate abuse rather than guiding those who wish to be guided and those who need to be, both voluntarily and/or forcefully.


That, to me, is the definition of heavy moderation and it does always fail. We are all responsible adults in the Garden and deserve to be treated as such, not as errant schoolchildren. As such we are all responsible for our posts and the contents therein, the moderators are here to ensure that nobody abuses the terms of service and to guide those that do back onto the correct path - in practice the majority of their job is zapping flyby spammers as the current membership is largely well intentioned. I reserve unto myself the decision whether and when to ban a member of long standing but in all other cases they know the way the site runs and have the authority to moderate accordingly.

Ahso!;1482436 wrote: You can have certain areas of FG that are moderated this way and others that are less so. However, when a member initiates a thread in the incorrect forum category in order to avoid the system or just may not know better, it is moved to the appropriate one and moderated accordingly. This is where all the moderators would need to work together of course. And then there would need to be agreed upon practices that you approve of which can be implemented and maintained in your absence, and others that would require your approval only.

So it's possible to have the crumpets & tea threads and also proper communication in the appropriate forums for more serious discussions.


If a new thread is glaringly in the wrong forum then the moderators will move it - this has been done several times in the past. However, the interpretation of what constitutes "current events" and what should be "general chit chat" (for example) is quite personal and, often, not worth arguing over.

Ahso!;1482436 wrote: I honestly do not see what you have to lose by asking your moderators to care about the content of the site as well as the language. People who become members like organization, it causes them feel safe and appreciated for their efforts. This issue has cost this site many valuable members on both sides of the spectrum.


Where a thread is attempting to hold a reasoned discussion then the moderators will naturally apply different criteria to deliberate attempts to derail that discussion to similar posts in a fluffy thread but it is unreasonable to expect them to follow every debate in every forum to police such matters - they are first and foremost members themselves, not paid administrators.

Ahso!;1482436 wrote: I would not go to the trouble of typing any of this unless I wanted to see this forum thrive. It may never do so, but it certainly hasn't and won't this way, it has become a troll magnet, sorry to say.


Maybe you could send me a list of those you consider to be trolls?

Seriously, I have seen Forums that have become troll magnets and do not see the Garden as one.

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