i dont find what you post upsetting because im fine with my choice. Its not based on whether it was a little beginnings of a life or not, because of course it was if conception had occured, but that i didnt want to host it and i dont think anyone should be obliged to. Its the beginnings - a rudimentary life completely incapable of living independantly therefore it really doesnt have any "rights" to anything.
Once it gets to the age where it could live independently of its host, then my feelings change
my views are pretty much in accordance with the law on the subject
Abortion poll - part 3
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suzy_creamcheese
- Posts: 135
- Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2008 1:15 am
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Accountable
- Posts: 24818
- Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 8:33 am
Abortion poll - part 3
suzy_creamcheese;964733 wrote: i dont find what you post upsetting because im fine with my choice. Its not based on whether it was a little beginnings of a life or not, because of course it was if conception had occured, but that i didnt want to host it and i dont think anyone should be obliged to. Its the beginnings - a rudimentary life completely incapable of living independantly therefore it really doesnt have any "rights" to anything.
Once it gets to the age where it could live independently of its host, then my feelings change
my views are pretty much in accordance with the law on the subject
*stepping gingerly in* I think I lost a friendship over this point once before, so everybody please take a deep breath and try not to take this too personally. Keep it hypothetical.
That rudimentary is was created from intercourse. If that intercourse was concentual then he/she is the consequence of decisions made and actions taken. He/she did not ask to be created, and is fully dependent on one of the creators. By making a dependent human life, no matter how rudimentary, the host (and the host's partner let's not forget) are obliged to care for him/her until he/she can live independently.
Conception did not "occur." Two people conceived. There's a major difference.
Once it gets to the age where it could live independently of its host, then my feelings change
my views are pretty much in accordance with the law on the subject
*stepping gingerly in* I think I lost a friendship over this point once before, so everybody please take a deep breath and try not to take this too personally. Keep it hypothetical.
That rudimentary is was created from intercourse. If that intercourse was concentual then he/she is the consequence of decisions made and actions taken. He/she did not ask to be created, and is fully dependent on one of the creators. By making a dependent human life, no matter how rudimentary, the host (and the host's partner let's not forget) are obliged to care for him/her until he/she can live independently.
Conception did not "occur." Two people conceived. There's a major difference.
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suzy_creamcheese
- Posts: 135
- Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2008 1:15 am
Abortion poll - part 3
Accountable;964759 wrote: By making a dependent human life, no matter how rudimentary, the host (and the host's partner let's not forget) are obliged to care for him/her until he/she can live independently.
i guess thats where the difference of opinion is.
i guess thats where the difference of opinion is.
Abortion poll - part 3
Snidely Whiplash;964686 wrote: Why do you say it doesn't matter what the percentages are...? Of course it matters.... Because those percentages are like the posibility of a meteor falling on your house, they are slim at best, and seldom happen..... But to answer your question, "I put the mother and baby in the hands of the doctors treating them, because what I think means nothing, it's the decisions that the doctors make concerning those 2 lives that matters"...... Larry, man, I gotta tell you. It's time to lay off the weed. In the first place, meteors don't smash anything, flat or otherwise. By definition, a meteor is a meteor only when it's burning itself up. Before it enters the Earth's atmosphere, the particle is called a meteoroid; ripping through the upper atmosphere at about 40 miles a second, it vaporizes and becomes visible as a meteor, commonly known as a "shooting star." From any one vantage point, five to ten meteors are visible every morning, adding up to about 200,000 visible meteors worldwide each day. The vaporized matter that passes through the atmosphere adds about ten tons daily to the weight of the earth; "micrometeors"--particles about the size of a grain of salt and too small to be seen--account for another 100 tons of acquired mass every day.
So far, no sweat. But every year, about 150 meteors are hardy enough to survive the friction of passing through the atmosphere and actually strike the ground. At that point, they become "meteorites."
http://www.straightdope.com/columns/rea ... ng-us-flat
How you can say that a woman dying as the result of pregnancy is "like the possibility of a meteor falling on your house" is uneducated at best...I suggest you go back and do your "homework on this issue"...You clearly completely misunderstand the meaning of our conversation...
Even if the percentages associated with deaths as the result of pregnancies were as low as you'd like to portray it's still gives credence to "Do you feel an abortion is appropriate if it leads to the possibility of the mother passing as a result?" being completely and undeniably relevant to the discussion...You're just dodging the question because it makes you think too much.
Snidely Whiplash;964686 wrote:
Why do you say I haven't looked at all the angles..? Because you either haven't, or you choose not to...I'm leaning on the latter...
Snidely Whiplash;964686 wrote:
Here's an angle for you to ponder that maybe you haven't considered............................ Just after conception, if you take a DNA sample from the developing fetus or baby or whatever you want to call him/her, and also take a DNA sample of the mother, they are completely seperate DNA structures, except of course for the family traites that we all share with our parents.... Two seperate people...... The question is does that new person have any right to live and be protected, or is that life subject to the feelings and whims of the mother and father, as to whether it lives or dies..... My view is that that little person with a new seperate DNA deserves the same rights to life as any of us do today, and even more so because that new life can't protect him/her self like we can...... What the hell does that have to do with my question and your dodging it?...Of course it's a new human being...It's called life...My question asks is if there's exceptions to the rule...You're clearly dodging it...
Snidely Whiplash;964686 wrote:
I think I've done my homework on this issue, and have based my opinion logically on the facts..... Good...What facts are those,..so I can get an understanding on from what material you're basing your logic on seeing as how you choose not to answer a completely straight forward and legitimate question?...
Snidely Whiplash;964686 wrote:
Yes I have moral and religious beliefs, but on the facts alone those things aside, I feel I see ample evidence that a new life begins at conception... And even if some have a question about that, if a human life is at stake, shouldn't it be given the benifit of the doubt, untill everyone is sure....?
I'm not posting anymore in this topic, it will just upset some, and I don't want to do that any further.... Very sorry for upsetting those who have gone through an abortion and find what I post upsetting.... I'm sorry...
Bye bye topic
The least you could do is explain your logic seeing as how you'd taken the time to enter this topic and voice your opinion...It's the least you could do...
BTW,..your name wouldn't happen to be "Larry" would it?...
So far, no sweat. But every year, about 150 meteors are hardy enough to survive the friction of passing through the atmosphere and actually strike the ground. At that point, they become "meteorites."
http://www.straightdope.com/columns/rea ... ng-us-flat
How you can say that a woman dying as the result of pregnancy is "like the possibility of a meteor falling on your house" is uneducated at best...I suggest you go back and do your "homework on this issue"...You clearly completely misunderstand the meaning of our conversation...
Even if the percentages associated with deaths as the result of pregnancies were as low as you'd like to portray it's still gives credence to "Do you feel an abortion is appropriate if it leads to the possibility of the mother passing as a result?" being completely and undeniably relevant to the discussion...You're just dodging the question because it makes you think too much.
Snidely Whiplash;964686 wrote:
Why do you say I haven't looked at all the angles..? Because you either haven't, or you choose not to...I'm leaning on the latter...
Snidely Whiplash;964686 wrote:
Here's an angle for you to ponder that maybe you haven't considered............................ Just after conception, if you take a DNA sample from the developing fetus or baby or whatever you want to call him/her, and also take a DNA sample of the mother, they are completely seperate DNA structures, except of course for the family traites that we all share with our parents.... Two seperate people...... The question is does that new person have any right to live and be protected, or is that life subject to the feelings and whims of the mother and father, as to whether it lives or dies..... My view is that that little person with a new seperate DNA deserves the same rights to life as any of us do today, and even more so because that new life can't protect him/her self like we can...... What the hell does that have to do with my question and your dodging it?...Of course it's a new human being...It's called life...My question asks is if there's exceptions to the rule...You're clearly dodging it...
Snidely Whiplash;964686 wrote:
I think I've done my homework on this issue, and have based my opinion logically on the facts..... Good...What facts are those,..so I can get an understanding on from what material you're basing your logic on seeing as how you choose not to answer a completely straight forward and legitimate question?...
Snidely Whiplash;964686 wrote:
Yes I have moral and religious beliefs, but on the facts alone those things aside, I feel I see ample evidence that a new life begins at conception... And even if some have a question about that, if a human life is at stake, shouldn't it be given the benifit of the doubt, untill everyone is sure....?
I'm not posting anymore in this topic, it will just upset some, and I don't want to do that any further.... Very sorry for upsetting those who have gone through an abortion and find what I post upsetting.... I'm sorry...
Bye bye topic
The least you could do is explain your logic seeing as how you'd taken the time to enter this topic and voice your opinion...It's the least you could do...BTW,..your name wouldn't happen to be "Larry" would it?...
Abortion poll - part 3
BTS;960875 wrote:
GOD!!!!!!,..what a disgusting female!!!!!!!!!
GOD!!!!!!,..what a disgusting female!!!!!!!!!
Abortion poll - part 3
K.Snyder;956470 wrote: I'm one to believe that abortion is rather gray...
On one hand we have morality...
On the other we have a population of kids being brought up in a world of institution at the expense of tax payers to whom have health problems as it is by sleeping only 3 hours a night wondering if they're going to be living on the street the next day let alone a month or year(s) later...
My question focuses on whether or not the abortion issue should be held to be secular or should be ridiculed of religious entity...
I was in a recent discussion with Accountable in the "Republicrats Meet with Evangelicals" thread from which I did not want to derail the subject...
The conversation is as follows...
My response to this would be that Obama voiced quite clearly that the baby gets human rights upon the decision of those to whom partake in any given abortion with extreme emphasis on the fact that not only is it the peoples to whom consent to having the abortion but those to whom aid in it's inception are just as responsible...His having the responsibility of leading the nation of the United States of America has no bearing on his personal ideologies pertaining to "at what point does a baby get human rights, in your view?" because the stance of pro-choice is just that,..pro-choice...It's not Obama having to parent the entire population of abandoned children...
Just because you don't like the person doesn't make his answer wrong...:yh_bigsmi...
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But responsible is the key word in retrospect to in which context it should be used...
So the poll asks...
"Do you feel that abortion should be pro-choice, illegal, or do some of you feel that it is immoral yet see the potential of a social concern upon abortion being illegal by virtue of even further over burdened orphanages?...I would go as far to say that upon the prohibition of abortion orphanage populations would increase by over 300% upon any society setting the precedent...
My Take On This Is ( It's Up To The Woman ) Nobody Else , Later For That Right / Left Wing Crap . :driving:
On one hand we have morality...
On the other we have a population of kids being brought up in a world of institution at the expense of tax payers to whom have health problems as it is by sleeping only 3 hours a night wondering if they're going to be living on the street the next day let alone a month or year(s) later...
My question focuses on whether or not the abortion issue should be held to be secular or should be ridiculed of religious entity...
I was in a recent discussion with Accountable in the "Republicrats Meet with Evangelicals" thread from which I did not want to derail the subject...
The conversation is as follows...
My response to this would be that Obama voiced quite clearly that the baby gets human rights upon the decision of those to whom partake in any given abortion with extreme emphasis on the fact that not only is it the peoples to whom consent to having the abortion but those to whom aid in it's inception are just as responsible...His having the responsibility of leading the nation of the United States of America has no bearing on his personal ideologies pertaining to "at what point does a baby get human rights, in your view?" because the stance of pro-choice is just that,..pro-choice...It's not Obama having to parent the entire population of abandoned children...
Just because you don't like the person doesn't make his answer wrong...:yh_bigsmi...
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But responsible is the key word in retrospect to in which context it should be used...
So the poll asks...
"Do you feel that abortion should be pro-choice, illegal, or do some of you feel that it is immoral yet see the potential of a social concern upon abortion being illegal by virtue of even further over burdened orphanages?...I would go as far to say that upon the prohibition of abortion orphanage populations would increase by over 300% upon any society setting the precedent...
My Take On This Is ( It's Up To The Woman ) Nobody Else , Later For That Right / Left Wing Crap . :driving:
Never Argue With An Idiot. They Drag You Down To Their Level Then Beat You With Experience.
When An Elder Passes On To Higher Life , Its Like One Of The Library Have Shut Down
To Desire Security Is A Sign Of Insecurity .
It's Not The Things One Knows That Get Him Or Her In Trouble , Its The Things One Knows That Just Isn't So That Get Them In Trouble
When you can control a man's thinking you don't have to worry about his action ...:driving:
When An Elder Passes On To Higher Life , Its Like One Of The Library Have Shut Down
To Desire Security Is A Sign Of Insecurity .
It's Not The Things One Knows That Get Him Or Her In Trouble , Its The Things One Knows That Just Isn't So That Get Them In Trouble
When you can control a man's thinking you don't have to worry about his action ...:driving:
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Omni_Skittles
- Posts: 2613
- Joined: Sun Apr 02, 2006 2:10 am
Abortion poll - part 3
hmm honestly i don't think abortion is right... EVER even if i weren't a christian i'd believe this!
Smoke signals ftw!
Abortion poll - part 3
Omni_Skittles;1098278 wrote: hmm honestly i don't think abortion is right... EVER even if i weren't a christian i'd believe this!
EVER?
Would you believe kidnapping a child were wrong?
EVER?
Would you believe kidnapping a child were wrong?
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Omni_Skittles
- Posts: 2613
- Joined: Sun Apr 02, 2006 2:10 am
Abortion poll - part 3
K.Snyder;1098796 wrote: EVER?
Would you believe kidnapping a child were wrong?lol make your point if i said yes... haha
Would you believe kidnapping a child were wrong?lol make your point if i said yes... haha
Smoke signals ftw!
Abortion poll - part 3
Omni_Skittles;1098836 wrote: lol make your point if i said yes... haha
And you believe that starving a child is wrong?
And you believe that starving a child is wrong?
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Omni_Skittles
- Posts: 2613
- Joined: Sun Apr 02, 2006 2:10 am
Abortion poll - part 3
Omni_Skittles;1098854 wrote: yes...
Having sex while having absolutely no means to provide a healthy lifestyle for the potential child is no different than kidnapping a child and subjecting said child to torture by virtue of starving that poor little child!
When that child cannot be provided for by the people responsible for the life of said child at the same time the society remains incompetent to do so as well I most assuredly do believe in abortion! God, or no God! (And I'm not yelling at you, I'm yelling at THEM!! :wah: :yh_wink :yh_kiss :yh_wink :yh_kiss :rolleyes: :wah: :yh_kiss :yh_wink :yh_kiss :rolleyes: :wah:)
Having sex while having absolutely no means to provide a healthy lifestyle for the potential child is no different than kidnapping a child and subjecting said child to torture by virtue of starving that poor little child!
When that child cannot be provided for by the people responsible for the life of said child at the same time the society remains incompetent to do so as well I most assuredly do believe in abortion! God, or no God! (And I'm not yelling at you, I'm yelling at THEM!! :wah: :yh_wink :yh_kiss :yh_wink :yh_kiss :rolleyes: :wah: :yh_kiss :yh_wink :yh_kiss :rolleyes: :wah:)
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Omni_Skittles
- Posts: 2613
- Joined: Sun Apr 02, 2006 2:10 am
Abortion poll - part 3
K.Snyder;1098871 wrote: Having sex while having absolutely no means to provide a healthy lifestyle for the potential child is no different than kidnapping a child and subjecting said child to torture by virtue of starving that poor little child!
When that child cannot be provided for by the people responsible for the life of said child at the same time the society remains incompetent to do so as well I most assuredly do believe in abortion! God, or no God! (And I'm not yelling at you, I'm yelling at THEM!! :wah: :yh_wink :yh_kiss :yh_wink :yh_kiss :rolleyes: :wah: :yh_kiss :yh_wink :yh_kiss :rolleyes: :wah:)I personally would never have sex unless i was married and i would only get married if i was financially stable... but that's besides the point. People should help each other in situations like this... am i a dreamer yeah... but i also do help people in situations like this... so i can say it.
When that child cannot be provided for by the people responsible for the life of said child at the same time the society remains incompetent to do so as well I most assuredly do believe in abortion! God, or no God! (And I'm not yelling at you, I'm yelling at THEM!! :wah: :yh_wink :yh_kiss :yh_wink :yh_kiss :rolleyes: :wah: :yh_kiss :yh_wink :yh_kiss :rolleyes: :wah:)I personally would never have sex unless i was married and i would only get married if i was financially stable... but that's besides the point. People should help each other in situations like this... am i a dreamer yeah... but i also do help people in situations like this... so i can say it.
Smoke signals ftw!
Abortion poll - part 3
Omni_Skittles;1098883 wrote: I personally would never have sex unless i was married and i would only get married if i was financially stable... but that's besides the point. People should help each other in situations like this... am i a dreamer yeah... but i also do help people in situations like this... so i can say it.
Well that's great, Omni_Skittles, I'm quite sure you do!
:yh_wink
:yh_kiss :wah:
Hope you like flirting! :wah:
If you don't?
TOO BAD BECAUSE I'M GOING TO DO IT ANYWAY!!!!!! :wah: :yh_rotfl :wah:
I kid! I kid!
:wah:
:yh_kiss
OK, NO I DON'T!!!!!!!!! :wah: :yh_rotfl :wah:
:yh_kiss
:yh_kiss
:yh_kiss
:yh_kiss
:yh_kiss
:yh_kiss
Well that's great, Omni_Skittles, I'm quite sure you do!
:yh_wink
:yh_kiss :wah:
Hope you like flirting! :wah:
If you don't?
TOO BAD BECAUSE I'M GOING TO DO IT ANYWAY!!!!!! :wah: :yh_rotfl :wah:
I kid! I kid!
:wah:
:yh_kiss
OK, NO I DON'T!!!!!!!!! :wah: :yh_rotfl :wah:
:yh_kiss
:yh_kiss
:yh_kiss
:yh_kiss
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Omni_Skittles
- Posts: 2613
- Joined: Sun Apr 02, 2006 2:10 am
Abortion poll - part 3
K.Snyder;1098892 wrote: Well that's great, Omni_Skittles, I'm quite sure you do!
:yh_wink
:yh_kiss :wah:
Hope you like flirting! :wah:
If you don't?
TOO BAD BECAUSE I'M GOING TO DO IT ANYWAY!!!!!! :wah: :yh_rotfl :wah:
I kid! I kid!
:wah:
:yh_kiss
OK, NO I DON'T!!!!!!!!! :wah: :yh_rotfl :wah:
:yh_kiss
:yh_kiss
:yh_kiss
:yh_kiss
:yh_kiss
:yh_kiss:rolleyes: do guys ever grow up?
:yh_wink
:yh_kiss :wah:
Hope you like flirting! :wah:
If you don't?
TOO BAD BECAUSE I'M GOING TO DO IT ANYWAY!!!!!! :wah: :yh_rotfl :wah:
I kid! I kid!
:wah:
:yh_kiss
OK, NO I DON'T!!!!!!!!! :wah: :yh_rotfl :wah:
:yh_kiss
:yh_kiss
:yh_kiss
:yh_kiss
:yh_kiss
:yh_kiss:rolleyes: do guys ever grow up?
Smoke signals ftw!
Abortion poll - part 3
Omni_Skittles;1098910 wrote: :rolleyes: do guys ever grow up?
Yes,
and then we get worse!
:yh_kiss
:yh_kiss
:yh_kiss
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:yh_kiss
:wah:
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:yh_wink
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Yes,
and then we get worse!
:yh_kiss
:yh_kiss
:yh_kiss
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:yh_kiss
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:wah:
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:yh_kiss
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Omni_Skittles
- Posts: 2613
- Joined: Sun Apr 02, 2006 2:10 am
Abortion poll - part 3
Omni_Skittles;1098917 wrote: :rolleyes: I'm learning that.
:yh_kiss
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:wah:
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:wah:
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